Superman Returns Would Reeve's Superman do what Routh's version did in SR?

[GarudA]

Typical X-Maniac. You put forth a assertion that is being discussed in SEVEN OTHER THREADS just because one of your friends said something and then backpeddle when someone calls you out.

Good God...

Reeve's Superman violated his father's express will to turn back time and save Lois Lane simply to save Lois Lane and by the logic of time travel everyone who Superman was saving the first time around while Lois is dying is now dead...

Reeve's Superman gave up his powers WITHOUT LITTLE THOUGHT so he could have Lois Lane and then takes revenge on a little human at the end of the movie...

Donner's Superman II cut shows Superman doing the same exact thing, this after he attempts to make Lois feel awful about suspecting he's Superman, and then TURNS BACK TIME AGAIN only to erase Lois's memory, and then goes back and beats up on the guy who had not beat him up since he had turned back time...

Yeah, Reeve's Superman was real "up-standing" and "tall"

These threads are just piles of ****. They ask the same tired old questions all over again and get the same tired old retorts back.

X-Maniac, do us a favor and take this to one of theo ther threads or just promise that every single time one of your friends call you that we don't have to get a thread about what they thought about Superman Returns, or anything else for that matter....that's even if your "friend" ever said this.

It's odd, you say you can't speak for his argument and yet you add a corollorary to his argument at the very end about how Superman didn't say bye at the hospital. ****ing ridiculous...what you guys expect. Thousands of people jammed tightly outside a hospital and Superman's going to go out and..."wave?" And the crowd is going to go into a riot...yeah, I'd say he made the right choice by NOT inciting celebrity pandemonium.

I suppose Superman was a jerk because he also didn't send everyone "Thank You" cards who waited outside his hospital room? Or that he didn't send everyone Christmas cards?

Seriously you need keep away from these boards. Dude go out side and see other humans.

 

[JamalYIgle]

A friend of mine just saw SR at the weekend. He said that the Christopher Reeve Superman in Donner's movies would not behave as the Routh version did in SR and that's what he found 'out of character.' He couldn't imagine Superman sneaking off to Krypton or sneaking away from the hospital room at the end - to him it didn't feel right at all.

If it's in the script, yes he'd do it.

 

[El Payaso]

Seriously you need keep away from these boards. Dude go out side and see other humans.

Man, buy a gun and stop feeling threatened.



God, even I feel odd telling other people what to do.

 

[afan]

Superman and the Curse of the Vague History

Aren't the similarities the problem? If SR follows the Donner films than Routh's Superman should have learned the lessons already taught thru disastrous experience to Reeve's Superman.

 

[GarudA]

Man, buy a gun and stop feeling threatened.



God, even I feel odd telling other people what to do.

Threatened? No. If you had read most of his posts, you would know, they are all very similar, he insults people in every post, his uptight and hateful. My advice to him is to keep away as it might lead to health problems for him as he takes it so personal.

 

[bosef982]

Threatened? No. If you had read most of his posts, you would know, they are all very similar, he insults people in every post, his uptight and hateful. My advice to him is to keep away as it might lead to health problems for him as he takes it so personal.

Mh, thanks for the consideration?

I'm hateful and insult people. Okay. Well, if someone's going to make absurd assertions and start yet ANOTHER thread discussing something that's being discussed in four other threads through three different forums, yep I'm going to insult them. Nevermind that if you read my posts I actually address people's points and seek to refute, expand, or qualify on them instead of just making wild assertions "just because..."

Read my posts more clearly next time and next time, if you don't have something substantive to add to this conversation that pertains to the topic, then you should really just stay out of it.

See, was that hateful...or was it just factual? The two get so confused around these boards adn God forbid someone uses sarcasm against the grain...

 

[X-Maniac]

Sorry, im just kinda thrown by the fact that X-maniac has friends.


Anyway i think they both behaved more or less the same way. If Reeve's Superman thought that his home planet he was told was destroyed was still there, he would definetly want to travel to meet his own kind in "person" and discover more things about his homeworld. The sneaking from the hospital wasnt out of character, just not the way Reeve's version would have behaved. So you have your gold star for that

I have many, many friends. t:

I can see what this particular friend of mine was saying. You could easily imagine a scenario in which the recovered Superman appeared outside the hospital to crowds cheering and throwing hats in a wild celebration, confirming that he was at last back on earth, back on their side (having saved everyone) and back in their hearts. I'm sure the Reeve version could have done that and probably would have done that. I'm not sure if it's too cheesy for the Routh version which Singer made more downbeat, but no more cheesy perhaps than the crowds cheering at the stadium (and wasn't it odd that they stood and stared at the plummeting plane, rather than fleeing for their lives!).

 

[X-Maniac]

Mh, thanks for the consideration?

I'm hateful and insult people. Okay. Well, if someone's going to make absurd assertions and start yet ANOTHER thread discussing something that's being discussed in four other threads through three different forums, yep I'm going to insult them. Nevermind that if you read my posts I actually address people's points and seek to refute, expand, or qualify on them instead of just making wild assertions "just because..."

Read my posts more clearly next time and next time, if you don't have something substantive to add to this conversation that pertains to the topic, then you should really just stay out of it.

See, was that hateful...or was it just factual? The two get so confused around these boards adn God forbid someone uses sarcasm against the grain...

Well, this is a discussion forum, none of us is able to keep track of every debate started in every section, and you don't have any sort of supremacy or control over people's views, so I suggest you learn to be a little more accepting of dissenting opinions and criticisms. You act as though you made this movie single-handedly, or at least were involved in it or somehow connected - if there is anyone here who was involved in it, they should announce themselves so we can get some direct answers on what was intended!

I've no doubt my assertions will continue, however wild you feel they are.

 

[bosef982]

I have many, many friends. t:

I can see what this particular friend of mine was saying. You could easily imagine a scenario in which the recovered Superman appeared outside the hospital to crowds cheering and throwing hats in a wild celebration, confirming that he was at last back on earth, back on their side (having saved everyone) and back in their hearts. I'm sure the Reeve version could have done that and probably would have done that. I'm not sure if it's too cheesy for the Routh version which Singer made more downbeat, but no more cheesy perhaps than the crowds cheering at the stadium (and wasn't it odd that they stood and stared at the plummeting plane, rather than fleeing for their lives!).

Still with your malicous and snide comments now in parantheses.

Superman didn't "appear" because he didn't need to. Also, the reason no one was fleeing as it was coming is that they probably saw Superman or, more likely, would you like to have a PG-13 movie showing a stampede in all its glroy, with little children being trampled on and the like...?

No, don't think that would've passed.

Is there anythinge lse about this movie that you'd like to nitpick and whine about in an attempt to make you feel better about yourself?

 

[X Knight]

yeah....I still don't feel the Reeve/Donner superman would do what SR's Supes did.

yes, we have agreed that BOTH Donner's and SR's Supes behave selfishlessly.

some may feel that both are equal.

however, I still think there is a big difference.

In the Donner movies....yes, Supes turned back time ( in 1 ) and gave up his powers ( in 2 ) for his own interests........but they were so that he could BE WITH Lois. IOW, his love for Lois was so strong that he would do anything just to be WITH her, even if that mean bringing her back from the dead, or giving up his powers permanently.

Now, contrast that with SR. Supes had a choice.....

If he made the trip to Krypton, he MAY find others like him ( possibly his parents ), BUT that would mean 5+ years away from Lois, the woman he loves......and it might also cause great pain to Lois.

OTOH, if Supes decided NOT to search for Krypton, he would still be with Lois, but he would miss out on the opportunity to perhaps meet others like him and see his home planet.

As SR conveyed, Supes chose to go to Krypton, indicating that his need to find others like him OUTWEIGHED his love for Lois here on earth.

Call me romantic, but, I know that if I had a woman who loved me, I WOULD NOT WANT TO LEAVE HER FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD, even if that meant missing my opportunity to see my home planet. I would rather spend another second with my love, than spend 5+ years away from her presence...

So, in SR, Superman chose to perform a selfish act that SEPARATED HIM FROM Lois, the woman he loves. Whereas in Donner's movies, Superman chose to perform selfish acts so that he could BE WITH Lois, the woman he loves.

that, to me, is a big difference. Call it silly or stupid or whining or nitpicking or whatever, but that's my opinion....... I have every right to complain about a movie that disappointed me, just as those who liked SR have every right to praise/defend a movie that satisfied them.

 

[bosef982]

yeah....I still don't feel the Reeve/Donner superman would do what SR's Supes did.

yes, we have agreed that BOTH Donner's and SR's Supes behave selfishlessly.

some may feel that both are equal.

however, I still think there is a big difference.

In the Donner movies....yes, Supes turned back time ( in 1 ) and gave up his powers ( in 2 ) for his own interests........but they were so that he could BE WITH Lois. IOW, his love for Lois was so strong that he would do anything just to be WITH her, even if that mean bringing her back from the dead, or giving up his powers permanently.

Now, contrast that with SR. Supes had a choice.....

If he made the trip to Krypton, he MAY find others like him ( possibly his parents ), BUT that would mean 5+ years away from Lois, the woman he loves......and it might also cause great pain to Lois.

OTOH, if Supes decided NOT to search for Krypton, he would still be with Lois, but he would miss out on the opportunity to perhaps meet others like him and see his home planet.

As SR conveyed, Supes chose to go to Krypton, indicating that his need to find others like him OUTWEIGHED his love for Lois here on earth.

Call me romantic, but, I know that if I had a woman who loved me, I WOULD NOT WANT TO LEAVE HER FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD, even if that meant missing my opportunity to see my home planet. I would rather spend another second with my love, than spend 5+ years away from her presence...

So, in SR, Superman chose to perform a selfish act that SEPARATED HIM FROM Lois, the woman he loves. Whereas in Donner's movies, Superman chose to perform selfish acts so that he could BE WITH Lois, the woman he loves.

that, to me, is a big difference. Call it silly or stupid or whining or nitpicking or whatever, but that's my opinion....... I have every right to complain about a movie that disappointed me, just as those who liked SR have every right to praise/defend a movie that satisfied them.

You kno what. I'm so tired of this. How can anyone here who is not adopted speak intelligently on how it feels to be adopted.

Depending on how you were raised, the desire to find out who you are and where you came from would ALWAYS outweigh someone you may or may not love.

You can't just dismiss it. I wouldn't call you romantic, I'd call you uninformed since you're not adopted and can't speak on that issue.

People underestimate the affect adoption has on people and what it does to you, it gets sort of forgotten because in some ways its become sort of common place. However, there is something about biological parenting that is taken for granted in an almost self-righteous, snobby way by people who are not adopted that is slowly showing itself in how people downgrade Superman's desire to find his homeworld to selfishness.

Also, if there were survivors -- as we've shown that Superman was intersted in that -- what is the difference in leaving your relatioship with Lois and going back to Krypton to ensure their safety and getting back your powers, killing your future with Lois, so that you could help Earth?

In both cases, Lois wasn't consulted. In the Donner films, Clark tells Lois he's going to go get his powers back. He doesn't ask her or really show much concern.

People's fondness for the Reeve films yields a horrible double standard. What I find also VERY VERY FUNNY is how people refer to Reeve's Superman not as Donner's Superman, but as Reeve's Superman and then refer to Routh's Superman as Singer's Superman. There lurks a sort of overwhelmingly outdated and nauseating sentimentality and doulbe-standard in there that is very apparent in many people's post.


And X-Maniac, stop the innocent "I didn't now what I was doing act." I've seen you march around telling others, " did you need to start another of these threads." I know you employ double standards when looking at movies, but please refrain from using the same laziness when dealing with people.

 

[X Knight]

well, bosef, were you adopted yourself?

you're right, I am not adopted, so I won't have the same feelings or perception as an adopted person. I concede that point.

yet, even if you were adopted, and were presented with the possibility of finding your birth home and birth parents, I don't think that gives you the right to disregard the feelings of those around you, especially the woman you love.

Woudln't you agree?

I mean, if finding your birth parents meant embarking on a long, extended trip, wouldn't you at least tell your girlfriend? Wouldn't you at least tell her that you loved her, that this trip means alot to you and is something you have to do, and ask her to wait for you?

Surely, if your girlfriend was a kind, caring person, she would understand. She may not particularly like the situation, but she know how important it is to you. And, if she really loves you, I'd think she would wait.

Oh, and for the record, I AM NOT particularly fond of the Donner movies. There were ALOT of things about them that I didn't especially care for ( Supes turning back time, amnesia kiss, etc. ). That's why I wanted a new movie to start fresh......

 

[mego joe]

yeah....I still don't feel the Reeve/Donner superman would do what SR's Supes did.

yes, we have agreed that BOTH Donner's and SR's Supes behave selfishlessly.

some may feel that both are equal.

however, I still think there is a big difference.

In the Donner movies....yes, Supes turned back time ( in 1 ) and gave up his powers ( in 2 ) for his own interests........but they were so that he could BE WITH Lois. IOW, his love for Lois was so strong that he would do anything just to be WITH her, even if that mean bringing her back from the dead, or giving up his powers permanently.

Now, contrast that with SR. Supes had a choice.....

If he made the trip to Krypton, he MAY find others like him ( possibly his parents ), BUT that would mean 5+ years away from Lois, the woman he loves......and it might also cause great pain to Lois.

OTOH, if Supes decided NOT to search for Krypton, he would still be with Lois, but he would miss out on the opportunity to perhaps meet others like him and see his home planet.

As SR conveyed, Supes chose to go to Krypton, indicating that his need to find others like him OUTWEIGHED his love for Lois here on earth.

Call me romantic, but, I know that if I had a woman who loved me, I WOULD NOT WANT TO LEAVE HER FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD, even if that meant missing my opportunity to see my home planet. I would rather spend another second with my love, than spend 5+ years away from her presence...

So, in SR, Superman chose to perform a selfish act that SEPARATED HIM FROM Lois, the woman he loves. Whereas in Donner's movies, Superman chose to perform selfish acts so that he could BE WITH Lois, the woman he loves.

that, to me, is a big difference. Call it silly or stupid or whining or nitpicking or whatever, but that's my opinion....... I have every right to complain about a movie that disappointed me, just as those who liked SR have every right to praise/defend a movie that satisfied them.

I'm with you. Plus, his lesson learned is more believable in the Donner films, because he actually acknowledges what a mess he's made of things.

 

[bosef982]

well, bosef, were you adopted yourself?

you're right, I am not adopted, so I won't have the same feelings or perception as an adopted person. I concede that point.

yet, even if you were adopted, and were presented with the possibility of finding your birth home and birth parents, I don't think that gives you the right to disregard the feelings of those around you, especially the woman you love.

Woudln't you agree?

I mean, if finding your birth parents meant embarking on a long, extended trip, wouldn't you at least tell your girlfriend? Wouldn't you at least tell her that you loved her, that this trip means alot to you and is something you have to do, and ask her to wait for you?

Surely, if your girlfriend was a kind, caring person, she would understand. She may not particularly like the situation, but she know how important it is to you. And, if she really loves you, I'd think she would wait.

Oh, and for the record, I AM NOT particularly fond of the Donner movies. There were ALOT of things about them that I didn't especially care for ( Supes turning back time, amnesia kiss, etc. ). That's why I wanted a new movie to start fresh......

Yeah, me was adopted.

But listen, let's level here:

Singer didn't try to pawn off that Superman didn't make a mistake. Superman explicity apologizes to Lois and accepts that he's done wrong. I just think many people don't like the wrong that he's made which is fine, but acnowledge that its a wrong that Singer agrees with you. It's an intentional wrong -- and I don't think ti kills Superman. Superman made a mistake...

It sucks that he made it, but he did. And it was an atrocious mistake. It wasn't that he left -- I dont think anyone would say that him leaving is a mistake. I've heard people make arguments, but it just doens't ring true. what was a mistake was not telling Lois he was leaving and that was ****ed up, I totally agree and it was very un-Supermanly. However, when do we all do things that are out of character? We do sometimes. It sucks, but we do. And I think Superman, raised by humans and on Earth, is not above that.

I think it can be uncomforting, to see our heroes in such a human light. It's disconcerting to realize that they are -- in the end -- just like us. And I dont know if its the fact that we don't like that they are, or if its teh fact that them being like us shows a responsbility that we thought we didn't have by default of not being like them, but it's true -- Superman is no better a person than us in terms of potential. OVerall, he's been given the powers to make a difference, but his spirit is shared among many human beings and is no better or worse then theirs.

It's hard, to see a hero so exposed, I think. But, Singer did it and did it well. Superman ****ed up and then pushes himself to his limits to redeem himself in the eyes of Lois and the world. It wasn't even so much for them as for himself, to earn his place in the world -- which he later finds out that he's gotten from Lois.

Singer suggested a lot with this film -- and I love that suggestion. real life very rarley offers explicit explainations of things. Real Life suggests trends and modes and patterns. Returns does that.

I completley respect if this wasn't someone's cup of tea. I really do. If you don't like the movie, if you just aren't comfortable with the creative decisions that Singer made, I can respect that. But what I get angry at is when people just start lamblasting and tearing at certain, miniscule things and creating flaws that don't exist by their own ignorance to them, not because Singer didn't address them.

This riles me up.

 

[mego joe]

Yeah, me was adopted.

But listen, let's level here:

Singer didn't try to pawn off that Superman didn't make a mistake. Superman explicity apologizes to Lois and accepts that he's done wrong. I just think many people don't like the wrong that he's made which is fine, but acnowledge that its a wrong that Singer agrees with you. It's an intentional wrong -- and I don't think ti kills Superman. Superman made a mistake...

It sucks that he made it, but he did. And it was an atrocious mistake. It wasn't that he left -- I dont think anyone would say that him leaving is a mistake. I've heard people make arguments, but it just doens't ring true. what was a mistake was not telling Lois he was leaving and that was ****ed up, I totally agree and it was very un-Supermanly. However, when do we all do things that are out of character? We do sometimes. It sucks, but we do. And I think Superman, raised by humans and on Earth, is not above that.

I think it can be uncomforting, to see our heroes in such a human light. It's disconcerting to realize that they are -- in the end -- just like us. And I dont know if its the fact that we don't like that they are, or if its teh fact that them being like us shows a responsbility that we thought we didn't have by default of not being like them, but it's true -- Superman is no better a person than us in terms of potential. OVerall, he's been given the powers to make a difference, but his spirit is shared among many human beings and is no better or worse then theirs.

It's hard, to see a hero so exposed, I think. But, Singer did it and did it well. Superman ****ed up and then pushes himself to his limits to redeem himself in the eyes of Lois and the world. It wasn't even so much for them as for himself, to earn his place in the world -- which he later finds out that he's gotten from Lois.

Singer suggested a lot with this film -- and I love that suggestion. real life very rarley offers explicit explainations of things. Real Life suggests trends and modes and patterns. Returns does that.

I completley respect if this wasn't someone's cup of tea. I really do. If you don't like the movie, if you just aren't comfortable with the creative decisions that Singer made, I can respect that. But what I get angry at is when people just start lamblasting and tearing at certain, miniscule things and creating flaws that don't exist by their own ignorance to them, not because Singer didn't address them.

This riles me up.

He didn't address them well enough for the impact they have on the characters in the movie. I think the fact that the emotions are portrayed so low key that it's hard to actually understand what the characters are feeling. I just didn't get the sense that Superman REALLY understood how bad he screwed up. I also think that the mistake SUperman made in the movie is one of those things that will haunt him for the rest of his life. He can never make ammends for what he's done. (Missing the first 4 years of his child's life, and not being an everyday dad.) No matter what he does, nothing changes that. I understand humanzing a character, but there other ways to humanize him than making him sexually irresponsible and emotionally cowardly. It just doesn't work as Superman. It just goes against so much of comic lore, both recent and old. Maybe he's not perfect b/c he isn't going to save everyone, maybe he won't be fast enough to rescue someone at some point. But, he shouldn't choose to do the wrong thing which in turns hurts those he loves or should love. The fundamental nature of SUpreman's character is not about being a screw up who creates his own messes to clean up. That is what seems to be SInger's interpretation of the character though. The driving force of the movie is "Superman screwed up, how's he going to attept to fix it." That's not SUperman either. And it certainly is diametrically opposed to the whole Christ figure metaphor Singer is trying so hard to get us to see. Superman then becomes an ironic character which is just getting further and further from the fundamental essence of who Superman is.

 

[afan]

Can I ask you all to define what you belive to be the mistake Superman makes in SR.

If it's purely leaving Earth I have issues.

There could be very valid reasons for The Man of Steel to go off earth for a period; a rescue mission certainly would qualify. I don't consider that an arguable mistake. Rescuing those in need is what Superman does.

Now a journey simply to expore his roots and or heritage, an archeological expedition into his origins, that could be a moot point and rational discussions could be formulated to support both the pro and con positions.

The mistake Superman made for me was the total lack of concern for those he left behind. Superman (at least the one I know) would announce to the world his intent and his reasons for leaving. Not making a public announcement is totally un Superman-like.

The mistake the film makes is not making it crystal clear what necessitates his off Earth mission, and not creating a dramatic device that explains the lack of his public disclosure.

 

[El Payaso]

Did Superman announce he was going to retire in Superman II before de-powering himself?

I thought the thread was about Superman in SR being the same as in the previous movies, not about Superman making mistakes.

 

[afan]

^ It's about comparing the behaviour of Reeve's Superman with Routh's Superman, isn't it?
Reeve's Superman mistakenly forfeited his power and responsibilities, for personal gratification, that seems clear to all. I am asking people to clarify what they believe Routh's Superman mistake is.

 

[PemLam]

Reeve's Superman knowingly gave up his powers...it wasn't a mistake. IMO, Routh's mistake was in not telling Lois why he was going.

It's been said on many threads I've read that if he were to announce his departure to the rest of the world, it could/would lead to a sudden emboldening of the criminal element.

 

[X Knight]

good points, bosef, mego, and afan.

I can certainly understand Superman's need to search for others of his kind, especially if his real parents are possibly alive.

as mego and myself have stated, though, those emotions and dramatics points were not given enough emphasis, in our opinion. If they had spent more time developing and portraying those feelings, maybe we would understand and connect with the characters more.

Now, as bosef has said, perhaps Singer was going for a more subtle / suggestive route. Some people may like that, but I would have preferred to have these issues given more WEIGHT. After all, there are some serious issues, mistakes, and consequences at play, and it just felt they kind of glossed over everything.

It's like.....yah, Superman is back, but......why do I really care about the characters. For me, SR didn't really get me emotionally invested in the characters for me to care about them in future movies.....

perhaps that is what the sequel is for, but a ho-hum first outing doesn't really enthuse me for a sequel

 

[afan]

Reeve's Superman knowingly gave up his powers...it wasn't a mistake. IMO, Routh's mistake was in not telling Lois why he was going.

It's been said on many threads I've read that if he were to announce his departure to the rest of the world, it could/would lead to a sudden emboldening of the criminal element.

Yes it's been discussed many times....I don't buy it.

Firstly and foremost humans were quite capable of running an orderly society before Superman, are responsible for that operation during Superman's stay, and would be equally capable to maintain order without him.

Secondly nowhere in SR is this given as a reason, so is it valid to discuss at all in relation to the film.

Bottom line whether he announces his intent or not......Superman is gone.
Just how long do you suppose it would take the world to realize something was amiss and for criminals to dismiss the threat of Superman. No public appearances or sightings of Superman in the Metropolis skies might be a clue. I dare say no involvement by Superman in any emergency or natural disaster would be a hint and a half.

 

[X-Maniac]

Reeve's Superman knowingly gave up his powers...it wasn't a mistake. IMO, Routh's mistake was in not telling Lois why he was going.

It's been said on many threads I've read that if he were to announce his departure to the rest of the world, it could/would lead to a sudden emboldening of the criminal element.

Well, that depends if the world is dependent on Superman so completely. We don’t know if he is the only superhero on earth but one assumes he isn’t if there is the potential to go up against Batman in various movie proposals that have been around. And Superman cannot be everywhere at once anyway.

I’d have liked him to announce his departure to Lois, and perhaps to reveal his secret identity also, so she could protect his secret (rather than Clark apparently being on his travels and the ploy of the Clark Kent postcards sent to the Daily Planet from Martha, which are entirely unconvincing as they came from the same address).

The movies does give the impression that the world has gone into decline anyway while he has been away - he sees various disasters/crimes on TV at Martha’s house after crashlanding back to earth.

 

[X Knight]

for me, the mistake of SR's Supes was not neccessarily that he left for Krypton, or that he had a son. It was the WAY he did it, which came across as selfish and irresponsible.

I just watched Spiderman 2 again on tv last night, and it seems SR's Supes could really use a talk with Aunt May.

The pivotal point in the movie was when Aunt May gave Peter her "hero speech." Essentially, she was saying that......."to be a hero, you often have to give up your dreams, or what you want for yourself." IOW, heros often have to sacrifice and give up their own personal needs to help others. And, not just physical sacrifice, but emotional as well.

My problem with SR's Superman, is that he basically wanted to satisfy his own desires ( to search for Krypton ), but he really didn't consider the CONSEQUENCES of his actions or HOW IT WOULD AFFECT THOSE AROUND HIM. In the end, Supes chose to satisfy what HE WANTED at the cost of destroying and harming the relations with those around him.....That's not really heroic, that's selfish..........

 

[X Knight]

now, I suppose the underlying tragedy in SR is that Supes acted selfishly, but he not only DID NOT find what he was looking for ( other Kryptonians ), he also pretty much messed up all of his relations on earth.

He's out of favor with Lois, she's with another man, he's missed out on 5 years of his own kid's life, his nemesis is out of prison, his FOS has been vandalized. And, to top it all of, he failed to find real survivors, and he's also lost contact with Jor-El's AI in the FOS.

So, yeah, Supes really got the short end of both sides of the stick.

The problem, however, was that the movie didn't really give anything DRAMATIC WEIGHT. So, while the ideas might sound interesting on paper, they weren't CONVEYED as effectively on screen.........

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

its all been said in above posts..now for my take..

who the hell cares? its a movie..

i will apologise for singer right now..we are all sorry for trying to make superman more human by showing that he too is ruled by his emotions..