WTF is up with smallville changing things

[November Rain]

I find that most people that want the show to "hurry up" and "get on with it" are often teenagers themselves, who dont realize how much you change from the time you're 18-19 years old to when you're like 25-30. Not that I'm knocking them mind you, b/c I was the same way at that age. I thought I was all "grown up" at 18.

perhaps in a normal environment under normal circumstances...

look at spidey for example, months after his uncle was killed he started to become spiderman.

he didn't need no guidance from aunt may, mj or any female friends or influence. He just got up and did it...

clark me still acts like a child that needs to be led to the toilet every five seconds. He's known from the beginning he can't be with lana yet he still goes around unwilling to tell her when he 'knows' she would accept it even if they didn't get together.

plus he takes advice from dead people, err.....at least pete didn't listen to uncle ben in his dead person advice scene...

if people are saying that people change alot from their childhood to their adulthood, it's true but it's not one single change, it's lots of little ones. up until clark's father died i really saw no change in him or self motivated one, it's just moan moan moan, whine whine whine...yadda this and yadda that and chloe is the smart one and his father is the hero without powers telling his son what to do yadda yadda...

in hindsight if someone told me that whiney lil boy was to become the most iconic hero of all time, i would tell them to go **** themselves.... especially considering ALL that he has been through.

it's like trying to push start a car that you have to push 3/4 of the distance before it starts, you might as well walk and save the energy...

also considering he's supposed to also be one of the world's greatest reporters, he can't lie for ****,

'er the lock must have fallen off,
er, the explosion must have carried you to safety,
err, i'm not allergic to that green rock, i'm just hungry and i faint when i'm hungry, please get rid of that rock....'

he reminds me too much of luke skywalker and neo. Great heroes that have no idea what the hell is going on and have to be carried through the story ALL... THE....TIME....

 

[Kaboom]

the arguments being presented are premised on faulty logic.

Clark hasn't finished his training. he has yet to finish his time in the FOS (to save chloe) and he has not traveled the world.

i mean shoot, clark still doesnt know the story of krypton. how can he embrace his alien heritage, before he knows what his heritage is?!?!?!

Thus,the metaphors are similiarly inapposite.

for example:

you contend that luke and neo knew what was going on.

However, once luke's training was complete, he kinda went after Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Once Neo was reborn, he was pretty proactive going against smith, and freeing all the testube babies.

even if we accept your position that clark is like neo or luke, you would have to concede that we would be concerned with neo in the matrix (as opposed to reloaded or revolutions) and luke in a new hope and empire (as opposed to jedi).

its a non sequitor to expect clark to act as though his training were complete before his training was complete.

 

[Brainiac 8]

the arguments being presented are premised on faulty logic.

Clark hasn't finished his training. he has yet to finish his time in the FOS (to save chloe) and he has not traveled the world.

i mean shoot, clark still doesnt know the story of krypton. how can he embrace his alien heritage, before he knows what his heritage is?!?!?!

Thus,the metaphors are similiarly inapposite.

for example:

you contend that luke and neo knew what was going on.

However, once luke's training was complete, he kinda went after Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Once Neo was reborn, he was pretty proactive going against smith, and freeing all the testube babies.

even if we accept your position that clark is like neo or luke, you would have to concede that we would be concerned with neo in the matrix (as opposed to reloaded or revolutions) and luke in a new hope and empire (as opposed to jedi).

its a non sequitor to expect clark to act as though his training were complete before his training was complete.

Well put Kaboom!

 

[avidreader]

^^^^^^ Great post Kaboom.

And I'm tired of hearing that he moans and whines. Is the guy supposed to have no feelings and want nothing?

 

[Kaboom]

see, im not all one-liners and sight-gags...sometimes i have substance. =)

and thanks for the kudos!

 

[BaK]

look at spidey for example, months after his uncle was killed he started to become spiderman.

you can not seriously compare an "boy/alien" to a "boy/animal"..

 

[November Rain]

the arguments being presented are premised on faulty logic.

Clark hasn't finished his training. he has yet to finish his time in the FOS (to save chloe) and he has not traveled the world.

i mean shoot, clark still doesnt know the story of krypton. how can he embrace his alien heritage, before he knows what his heritage is?!?!?!

Thus,the metaphors are similiarly inapposite.

for example:

you contend that luke and neo knew what was going on.

However, once luke's training was complete, he kinda went after Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Once Neo was reborn, he was pretty proactive going against smith, and freeing all the testube babies.

even if we accept your position that clark is like neo or luke, you would have to concede that we would be concerned with neo in the matrix (as opposed to reloaded or revolutions) and luke in a new hope and empire (as opposed to jedi).

its a non sequitor to expect clark to act as though his training were complete before his training was complete.

Clark hasn't finished his training yet but he's more than aware of what's going on and what needs to be done. I mean his greatness and destiny is hinted in every single episode.

the thing with luke and neo is that they both their first films were stand alone originally. And it takes them a while to get into it but they eventually pull out the stops in the end. Fine, that's what a film does for some heroes. Then it takes them another 2 films to get to that stage again with more leadership and guidance from people around.

clark's been actively saving people's lives for over five years? How much more training does he really need? sure he's not aware of all his powers yet but that shouldn't stop him.

I'm not saying he should have the cape on already, just grow some balls and stop being carried around everywhere by chloe, lana, both his dads, lex and lionel.

in all honesty apart from clark's powers, i genuinely don't see any real heroic qualities in him at this stage, not genuine heroic qualities. and you would think some would be popping up by now,

 

[November Rain]

you can not seriously compare an "boy/alien" to a "boy/animal"..

both have powers
both have male dead mentors
both have strong female mothering influences
both have friends as close enemies
both have sickening fascination with girl voiding on obsessive

sure pete isn't really an outsider, but the only one that sees clark as an outsider is himself and he keeps seeing it as a negative and doesn't reflect on all the good he's done and how it's a positive yet, even though chloe and his dad keep trying to beat it into him, all he keeps seeing is that he can't be with lana.

I mean parker accepted that fact but true his powers did alter for love and all that jazz but he still made decisions on his own to both stop and then start being spidey again, he didn't need a pep talk.

i just find clark at this time to be one big attention junkie, forever bursting into Lex's house and giving him speeches.

I mean really why does clark feel so isolated, especially considering all the different people he's encountered with all their powers. does being an alien really distant him from humans with special abilties? I would understand if he never ran into anything of that sort, but he does alll the time.


I guess i'm just not one to see a really long growth period of a hero or 30 odd yr old ladies playing 21 yr olds...

 

[BaK]

in all honesty apart from clark's powers, i genuinely don't see any real heroic qualities in him at this stage, not genuine heroic qualities.

would naming/pointing to just "one genuine heroic quality" that he supposedly does not have would be 2 much trouble for you ?

 

[November Rain]

confidence/self belief

 

[BaK]

...both have male dead mentors...

so in your opinion that's enough of a "similarity" to "nullify" the other guy's "undead" parent talking to him from another "planet" or who knows from where - as "nothing special" really?

sure, we can all generalize as much or even half as you do, but that is as pointless discussion as it can get..

point is - your premisse that he did not do any "growing up" is just ridiculous imo, but I'm sure you can "argue" it to death..

 

[November Rain]

i'm talking about jonathan kent, not jor-el...

i don't see jor-el as a mentor figure...

 

[BaK]

confidence...

now, we just might be watching a different show..
there were so many tough choices/decisions in these 5 years that no one alive could've made without great confidence in values, (therefore himself), that his "earth" parents taught him, that it's just unbelievable what you are saying/implying..

 

[LexCorp]

I would never take this show seriously. I mean I have said this before in other threads that this show is very "teen" driven and it is just Superman for teh sake of superman. There is no real drive to this show and so I am left just waiting to see the power moments of Superman as I do not care at all about the characters. It twists and turn too much. I feel I am ahead by a seasons worth of story telling before the characters can catch up and make it interesting. Rant over...

 

[November Rain]

now, we just might be watching a different show..
there were so many tough choices/decisions in these 5 years that no one alive could've made without great confidence in values, (therefore himself), that his "earth" parents taught him, that it's just unbelievable what you are saying/implying..

those choices aren't ones he's made indpendantly, he's always followed the advice of one person or another....

 

[LexCorp]

those choices aren't ones he's made indpendantly, he's always followed the advice of one person or another....

I Know he is in his teens but peer pressure clark is no fun to watch.

 

[Mandi-chan]

I agree with November Rain.

For the longest time on this show Clark hadn't really changed at all, he was too busy obsessing over Lana (even though she's insanely dull and *****y) to let himself grow as an individual.

I used to like this show but, like Clark, it wasn't really getting anywhere...

Clark and Lana were constantly hooking up and then quickly breaking up because he couldn't tell her his secret and she'd get pissed at him.

And Jor-El (Clark's biological daddy) was being written as a bad guy, which bothered me a lot since I know (even though I don't read the comics, I am a fan of other Superman shows) that he isn't evil.

I thought the show was good, but kept repeating the same crap over and over again and I was getting sick of it. Not even my main interest in watching the show (Lex and Lionel) could keep me into it after a while and I just lost interest. (I stopped loyally watching it when Lois was introduced, I loved her but I wasn't interesting enough to get back into the show).

I have caught a few eps since then and will admit it seemes to have greatly improved since I stopped watching it (I kinda like Lana now since she's with Lex and seems to have become a baddie). It figures, I stop watching the show when it starts getting good!

 

[LexCorp]

I agree with November Rain.

For the longest time on this show Clark hadn't really changed at all, he was too busy obsessing over Lana (even though she's insanely dull and *****y) to let himself grow as an individual.

I used to like this show but, like Clark, it wasn't really getting anywhere...

Clark and Lana were constantly hooking up and then quickly breaking up because he couldn't tell her his secret and she'd get pissed at him.

And Jor-El (Clark's biological daddy) was being written as a bad guy, which bothered me a lot since I know (even though I don't read the comics, I am a fan of other Superman shows) that he isn't evil.

I thought the show was good, but kept repeating the same crap over and over again and I was getting sick of it. Not even my main interest in watching the show (Lex and Lionel) could keep me into it after a while and I just lost interest. (I stopped loyally watching it when Lois was introduced, I loved her but I wasn't interesting enough to get back into the show).

I have caught a few eps since then and will admit it seemes to have greatly improved since I stopped watching it (I kinda like Lana now since she's with Lex and seems to have become a baddie). It figures, I stop watching the show when it starts getting good!

Yeah thats how I felt about it. I am in the same place as you. This show has lost it's spark. It's like a chicken with it's head cut off!! It runs around for bit in pain not sure what happened and dies....

 

[BaK]

those choices aren't ones he's made indpendantly, he's always followed the advice of one person or another....

I mean just how much wrong can you get ?

In lot of his decisions he actually went against the advice of "one person or another"..

Clearest example was confidence he had in himself when Jonathan asked him to quit playing football.. Season 4 episode Jinx..
Did you actually watch it?

 

[LexCorp]

I mean just how much wrong can you get ?

In lot of his decisions he actually went against the advice of "one person or another"..

Clearest example was confidence he had in himself when Jonathan asked him to quit playing football.. Season 4 episode Jinx..
Did you actually watch it?

Heck you could find a few references to his independece but he is not much more than a dumb model version of Clark that runs around without a real idea of what is going on. Smallvilles version of Clark Kent is about as independent and self reliant as......America!

 

[Kaboom]

Bak in High School, my english teachers would routinely fail people for writing papers based on what they called "glistening generalities." a glistening generality is a statement of opinion set forth as fact with no citation or reference fr support. for example a statement that "clark hasn't grown up at all" or "clark always does what people tell him" qualifies as a glistening generality.

in wikipedia, statements such as these always come with a disclaimers that citations to sources are required and may not neccessaly be true.

my point is, you and i have taken to the time to respond to the above arguments thoughtfully, and in reliance on source material. whereas, the replies have returned nothing but "glistening generalities" such as "clark may not have finished his training but hes done enough."

what exactly is enough? who decides that enough is enough?

well with regard to this line of posting, i have decided i have had enough Bak, we're wasting out breath.

 

[triplet]

Bak in High School, my english teachers would routinely fail people for writing papers based on what they called "glistening generalities." a glistening generality is a statement of opinion set forth as fact with no citation or reference fr support. for example a statement that "clark hasn't grown up at all" or "clark always does what people tell him" qualifies as a glistening generality.

in wikipedia, statements such as these always come with a disclaimers that citations to sources are required and may not neccessaly be true.

my point is, you and i have taken to the time to respond to the above arguments thoughtfully, and in reliance on source material. whereas, the replies have returned nothing but "glistening generalities" such as "clark may not have finished his training but hes done enough."

what exactly is enough? who decides that enough is enough?

well with regard to this line of posting, i have decided i have had enough Bak, we're wasting out breath.

Arguments break down when opinion is stated as fact, which happens a lot online as you are aware. You make a good point.

 

[Kaboom]

^^^ thank you

 

[LexCorp]

I am not pretending any of what I say is fact. I know it is opinoin....just watched a show and then I make my own mind up. Everyone does this. It's why we are posting right now.

 

[November Rain]

I mean just how much wrong can you get ?

In lot of his decisions he actually went against the advice of "one person or another"..

Clearest example was confidence he had in himself when Jonathan asked him to quit playing football.. Season 4 episode Jinx..
Did you actually watch it?

everytime he's gone against the opinions of others, he's either come round or dire consequences have happened due to it.

every time.

it's the equivalent of trying to feed a child that says he isn't hungry when you make a fuss but when you leave him, he then starts to eat eventually.

smallville is like watching an infants mealtime over and over and over....