WTF is up with smallville changing things

[Kaboom]

youre allowed to have an opinion. you are allowed to have an opinion that different than mine. that is encouraged.
the problem is that an intellectual discussion on character archetypes, story arcs, etc. cannot be had without at least a passing reference to source material. otherwise we'll be running around the mulberry bush ad infinitum.

 

[Kaboom]

everytime he's gone against the opinions of others, he's either come round or dire consequences have happened due to it.

every time.

it's the equivalent of trying to feed a child that says he isn't hungry when you make a fuss but when you leave him, he then starts to eat eventually.

smallville is like watching an infants mealtime over and over and over....

can you gimme a for instance?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

this feels exactly like that argument we have on here where someone comes on claiming Smallville is a show for teen girls, and then we post the viewership breakdown of how the show's biggest demo is 18-34 yr old males and that basically all of the ads are geared towards 20 something male viewers, and then they keep repeating the teen girl thing.....

 

[Kaboom]

Pop! goes the weasel.

i feel ya hulk.

 

[November Rain]

Bak in High School, my english teachers would routinely fail people for writing papers based on what they called "glistening generalities." a glistening generality is a statement of opinion set forth as fact with no citation or reference fr support. for example a statement that "clark hasn't grown up at all" or "clark always does what people tell him" qualifies as a glistening generality.

in wikipedia, statements such as these always come with a disclaimers that citations to sources are required and may not neccessaly be true.

my point is, you and i have taken to the time to respond to the above arguments thoughtfully, and in reliance on source material. whereas, the replies have returned nothing but "glistening generalities" such as "clark may not have finished his training but hes done enough."

what exactly is enough? who decides that enough is enough?

well with regard to this line of posting, i have decided i have had enough Bak, we're wasting out breath.

the reason I'm generalising is due to a trend i've seen based on the episodes i've seen. I don't go out and buy the series, or watch the repeat episodes, it's one viewing and there are probably around 8-9 eps i've missed out on during the whole five seasons or so.

now as a fan who may have a large amount of source data to their advantage, one is able to analyse things in more depth and seemingly provide arguments for their case. I mean i do the same thing for people who didn't like the hulk, i can provide arguments on its behalf because i've bought it and watched it numerous times enough to pick out aspects. To have a conversation at times with people who have only watched it once is hard.

now since the shoe is seemingly on the other foot, i can't blame them.

I mean clark is supposed to have grown right, but based on what i've remember every decision he has made have been ones suggested to him that he's either gone for or against. I mean considering the time frame of five years on a glance the clark in the first season acts a lot like the clark in the last.

I don't see it and i'm not willing to go and watch every episode of the series again to gather points to prove it to you guys simply because i just don't feel that passionate about it.

I mean you are welcome to go over all the points of growth that clark's encountered and convince me that his 'slow' rate of maturity and his inability to act on his two feet without guidance from all sides of the fence is in line with the character thus becoming the greatest superhero to have ever lived.

because in my eyes, since they've padded it out so much now, it;s all going to get rushed when the show ends in a couple of seasons. 7 or so series worth of development will happen in around 6 eps.

I mean what major significant things have occured in smallville

alright let's be fair, from season 2 to present date, i'll happily write off the first one because it did what it had to do...

 

[November Rain]

can you gimme a for instance?

dating lana
befriending and trusting lex
dating that killer girl
joining and helping fiennes
listening to jor-el about many issues
his father not wanting him to join the football club
sex with lana
killing lex by order of jor-el
running away with red kyptonite at the end of season 3 (i think)

these are the ones that come to mind since they were re-used themes quite often (except for the killing of lex/zod although i can forsee this occuring in the next one)

there are probably more on an ep-to-ep basis but i just can't remember them to point them out.

 

[Kaboom]

the reason I'm generalising is due to a trend i've seen based on the episodes i've seen. I don't go out and buy the series, or watch the repeat episodes, it's one viewing and there are probably around 8-9 eps i've missed out on during the whole five seasons or so.

now as a fan who may have a large amount of source data to their advantage, one is able to analyse things in more depth and seemingly provide arguments for their case. I mean i do the same thing for people who didn't like the hulk, i can provide arguments on its behalf because i've bought it and watched it numerous times enough to pick out aspects. To have a conversation at times with people who have only watched it once is hard.

now since the shoe is seemingly on the other foot, i can't blame them.

I mean clark is supposed to have grown right, but based on what i've remember every decision he has made have been ones suggested to him that he's either gone for or against. I mean considering the time frame of five years on a glance the clark in the first season acts a lot like the clark in the last.

I don't see it and i'm not willing to go and watch every episode of the series again to gather points to prove it to you guys simply because i just don't feel that passionate about it.

I mean you are welcome to go over all the points of growth that clark's encountered and convince me that his 'slow' rate of maturity and his inability to act on his two feet without guidance from all sides of the fence is in line with the character thus becoming the greatest superhero to have ever lived.

because in my eyes, since they've padded it out so much now, it;s all going to get rushed when the show ends in a couple of seasons. 7 or so series worth of development will happen in around 6 eps.

I mean what major significant things have occured in smallville

alright let's be fair, from season 2 to present date, i'll happily write off the first one because it did what it had to do...

i respect your willingness to engage in this type of discussion and i am more than happy to oblige you. however, we have to first define "growth" and "slow rate." i cold get super technical but i wont with regard to rules of argument. however, since you are taking the conter point, the burden is on you to convince us and i is your obligation to go first. so define what you mean by growth, what you consider slow, why w/e rate hes proceeding at is unacceptable, and make reference to source material. then we can take it from there. =)

 

[November Rain]

i respect your willingness to engage in this type of discussion and i am more than happy to oblige you. however, we have to first define "growth" and "slow rate." i cold get super technical but i wont with regard to rules of argument. however, since you are taking the conter point, the burden is on you to convince us and i is your obligation to go first. so define what you mean by growth, what you consider slow, why w/e rate hes proceeding at is unacceptable, and make reference to source material. then we can take it from there. =)

alright growth and rate...

growth for me would be a willingness for a character to accept the responsibilities that their abilities hold and realise that normality may not or ever be on the cards for them, this comes with dating, relationships, putting their family in danger. A maturity of some sort. Usually i would associate such a growth to happen really early in the development of such abilities.

Alright fair enough clark does indeed have to deal with being an extra terrestrial although i don't think that aspect of his growth is really ever touched upon other than him calling himself 'different' as if he's accepted it on paper but when it comes down to the practicality of it all, he's still not on his feet. like in that ep this season where the girl can move glass, he's happy to imply his gifts to her as a means of getting her to accept hers, yet his gifts are still holding him back as if he's putting on a show, and they've been holding him back in the same aspect for a long time, i.e. lana.

now the rate of growth is always going to be a relative one. now i'm a buffy/angel fan so my measure of growth may seem a lil strange, perhaps even quick. If you consider what both angel and buffy encounter in their first five series to smallvilles and look at all the relative extra characters that have been brought in and built up and how the characters have mostly changed during that time, in comparison to smallville i feel it's somewhat slow.

I know smallville has a different feel because buffy and angel flow to an uncertain future while smallville's future is inevitable so we all know what is eventually goign to happen, we just don't know how it's going to get there. perhaps there is some latent 'ahhh, get on with it' part of me but in all honesty, i think i could care less about actually wanting him to become supes, i feel i would rather see clark become a more independant stronger willed character even if he puts on being a lil weak on the outside.

I feel on relative terms, smallville has underachieved in those aspects.

i mean lionel has always been a bastard but now he has a love interest
chloe has always had a lil thing for clark and has been the brains of the operation
lana has always yearned for male attention of some kind, i don't konw what that is all about.
jonathan has always been the rock even in death
lex has always had 'dark' tendencies emerging
martha has always been the supporting fragile(ish) wife
clark's always been pretty....er......dull as a character.

 

[Kaboom]

first , let me point out that i doubt anyone will "win" this "argument" so let us first decide, assuming its ok with you, that this will be a "discussion."

on to the points.

if we accept your position that growth equals a characters willingness to be accepting of oneself and their responsibilities, i would pause to posit the query: "when would this journey ever be complete?" my answer would have to be when one dies. because life itself is a series of trials and tribulations designed to test exactly that, imo. i would also note that growth, is seldom in a straight line, but rather ebbs and flows, goes up and down.

never the less, i would posit that clark has been "growing." maybe the most pronounced example would be commencement when he risked death (the incoming meteroites filled with kryptonite) to save the planet by uniting the crystals, knowing he was the only one capable of doing so. this decision was made on his won, and despite his mothers pledings to the contrary. JOhnathan recognized this and gave clark his blessing, not a command.

with regard to the pace of his growth, i confess i have never seen an episode of buffy. we have to be mindful, that while clark is aware of his alienage/paternage he is not aware of his heritage. he doesnt know krypton or its history. it is not plausible to expectsomeone to embrace something they know nothing about especially if it would change the core of how one defines oneself.

therefore, we have an artifical cieling on where clark is able to grow to in the course of his destiny to become superman. That being said, your arguments seem to be a back and forth with lana. (which clark ended this season to protect her). Maybe i am naive but i suspect putting others safety and happiness before ones own is pretty mature. in fact its defined as agape love, the highest form of love one can have. Thus it appears clark has fully manifested his love (perhaps superman's most redeeming quality) already, although he may not have fully realized his abilities.

 

[LexCorp]

lois is great T&A.......

 

[LexCorp]

Sorry....want to bring the serious levels down a bit......it's just a TV show.

 

[Brainiac 8]

this feels exactly like that argument we have on here where someone comes on claiming Smallville is a show for teen girls, and then we post the viewership breakdown of how the show's biggest demo is 18-34 yr old males and that basically all of the ads are geared towards 20 something male viewers, and then they keep repeating the teen girl thing.....

Oh, I remember that argument. No matter what proof we posted it was argued against. We were just beating our heads against the wall with that one.

I'm feeling Deja Vu here...no?

 

[Kaboom]

lois is great T&A.......

see, you were a proponent of no growth argument before. once the argument is broken down logically, and your position erodes, you hide behind by lois and her "t and a"

not that thats a bad place to be. in fact, slide over, let me get in on that too.

 

[LexCorp]

I wasn't hiding. I gave reason why I said the things I did..nothing is eroding. It's just you guys on here get so into your I AM WRIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG posts you all start to go a bit nuts. Every response is a counter respones to some other dude. Hey I got Lois and her butt to play with I will come back later when users are talking S ville and not the details of why users are Wright or Wrong.

 

[Kaboom]

I wasn't hiding. I gave reason why I said the things I did..nothing is eroding. It's just you guys on here get so into your I AM WRIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG posts you all start to go a bit nuts. Every response is a counter respones to some other dude. Hey I got Lois and her butt to play with I will come back later when users are talking S ville and not the details of why users are Wright or Wrong.

i never said i was Wright....i'll let orville and wilbur take care of that.

 

[LexCorp]

i never said i was Wright....i'll let orville and wilbur take care of that.

Who are they?

 

[Brainiac 8]

i never said i was Wright....i'll let orville and wilbur take care of that.

Haa, you made me laugh with that one Kaboom.

They invented the airplane. hehe

 

[Kaboom]

glad i gave you chuckle braniac

 

[Brainiac 8]

glad i gave you chuckle braniac

It's good to laugh, just not in the middle of a quiet bank.

 

[BaK]

well with regard to this line of posting, i have decided i have had enough Bak, we're wasting out breath.

...and we pushed ourselves to the limits of exhaustion, exploring notions only theorized by crackpots..

*Superman - Infinite City*

 

[triplet]

Man... Get me off this thing....

 

[pyromaniac]

Triplet take into account that most people who say that Clark hasn't changed are those who would rather had him become Superman after season one.

Changes don't happen that quickly November, It takes time and experience for major changes to occur. You make good and bad decisions along the way. You don't just start out perfect, it takes hard work to get there. Clark isn't going to go from a unsure teen to the perfect role model within five years...that's not the way life works.

How many teens at nineteen do you know that know exactly their own personalities let alone where they want to be in life. Very few. Watch through early seasons of the show though, and you'll see many changes to Clark, his personality, and his view on things.

They are trying to put him through the same paces many teens go through. The first love that you just have a hard time letting go of, learning who you can trust in life, learning your parents are a lot smarter than you give them credit for...none of it is out of the ordinary for most teenagers growing up.

Technically speaking, if you are going by the comics, Clark won't be that ideal for another several years, after traveling the world some...and gaining some more lessons about life. I think it makes Clark more relateable to the youngster that watch it.

If acting and writing all round was much better, then probably yes.