X-Men - Part 6

[spideyboy_1111]

Because sexuality identity is not universal across time and space. Sexuality and desire is constantly being made, unmade, and remade. So jumping from what is like the 60s for them to now is going to hugely change what he is capable of identifying as.

ummm.. no no it's not ones sexual identity doesn't constantly evolve..

also, keep in mind... the original X-men may have been created in the 60s.. but the timeline is always sliding.. the X-men arn't 50 years old in the books... really only 15-20 years have passed for them

 

[spideyboy_1111]

the only way i see any of it making any lick of sense... is if Adult bobby has some sort of mental blocks placed... I think he was close to Emma Frost once.. or maybe it could have been jean.. or the professor.. but he could have been pretty tormented.. even suicidal.. and he begged for another mutant to put "mental blocks" on his mind.. this would have suppressed his sexual identity without anyone else finding out about it...

and the weird story to follow would be young bobby helping older bobby come to terms with his true sexuality...

it's bizzarre as all hell and not the way i think it all should be done (especially with jean's mind rape) but that's the only way i can viably make sense of any of this.

and none of that makes me happy, just sad.

 

[Mad Ones]

Sexual identity does constantly evolve! That's where contemporary queer theory has moved in the last 20 years (i.e. Butler and other queer theorists). On a personal level and societal level. There is no inherent gender or sexuality, they are both performative, controlled by societal rewards or punishments. Queer is what happens when that performative script is not followed. The case of ANXM is a queering of time. Queering is weird as hell, and it often makes people angry.

And while only 15-20 has passed them, the sliding timeline of the Marvel Universe makes their twenty years ago look like our 60s. That's why Jean said it's so much better now (and there have been other comments like that throughout the series). It is ambiguous though.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Sexual identity does constantly evolve! That's where contemporary queer theory has moved in the last 20 years (i.e. Butler and other queer theorists). On a personal level and societal level. There is no inherent gender or sexuality, they are both performative, controlled by societal rewards or punishments. Queer is what happens when that performative script is not followed. The case of ANXM is a queering of time.

And while only 15-20 has passed them, the sliding timeline of the Marvel Universe makes their twenty years ago look like our 60s. That's why Jean said it's so much better now (and there have been other comments like that throughout the series). It is ambiguous though.

1) i can't stand the term queer especially when it comes off as a seperate concept than just simply being "gay" it's redundant

2)no, actually it doesnt... I don't know any gay men or women (And i can assure you i know a HELLL of alot) who's sexual identity has shifted after coming out... ) there sexual identity does not evolve....

3) im not talking about how the gay community has evolved and changed over the years.. it has, but not there personal sexual preference ...

 

[Mad Ones]

1) Queer is not just "gay." It's nonconformity to the social construction that sex, gender, and sexuality are inherently tied together. This comes in many different forms other than just same-sex attraction. Queering is often used as a verb to destabilize heteronormative narratives and is very important politically.

2) I know someone who identified as lesbian since she was sexually active, and now identifies as bisexual. Who knows how she will identify in the future. Does your relatively small sample disallow her experiences?

3) What about before Stonewall or even the enlightenment, before the category of "gay"? The desires of ancient Greeks and Romans were constructed very differently than our desires today.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

1) Queer is not just "gay." It's nonconformity to the social construction that sex, gender, and sexuality are inherently tied together. This comes in many different forms other than just same-sex attraction. Queering is often used as a verb to destabilize heteronormative narratives and is very important politically.

2) I know someone who identified as lesbian since she was sexually active, and now identifies as bisexual. Who knows how she will identify in the future. Does your relatively small sample disallow her experiences?

3) What about before Stonewall or even the enlightenment, before the category of "gay"? The desires of ancient Greeks and Romans were constructed very differently than our desires today.

1) lord.. sorry, it's all bullhonky to me.. no offense. But thats the problem i hate about our community.. we are constantly trying to compartmentalize ourselves and label ourselves.. to the point we can't even make sense out of all of it.. it went from the LGBT to the LGBTQIA2.... since when are "questioning" people a community? then you've got all the multi sect lables like Bears, Otters, Twinks, etc.. and it's just beyond ridiculous.. we need to stop trying to constantly label ourselves it's like a desperate cry for "uniqueness". it's all very silly.. and the list keeps growing and growing.. But that's a whole other story... just be yourselves.. don't need to put a label on it.

2) that's not most people though, and is more rare than anything.. and alot of factors go into a situation like that... I do believe it happens though, and i do believe sexuality is more fluid than people want to think it is.. I'm also a strong supporter of the Kinsey Scale as a supporter of such... But no most gay men and women once they come out.. don't usually shift to being bi-sexual or straight again... and usually most people identify the orientation they currently are as the ones they were meant to be.. your friend might of thought she was a lesbian.. and bounced from one closet to the next.. until she realized she was a true bi-sexual. that doesn't mean your sexuality evolved.. it just means you still hadn't figured yourself out yet. Sexuality isn't black and white, as i mentioned in my rather long first comment on the subject.. there's people who consider themselves straight who've slept with a member of the same sex.. and even fallen in love with a member of the same sex.. realizing later they were in deed attracted to men...

I never said this stuff can't happen.. it just doesn't make any sense in this context.. what effects young Iceman... there for effects old iceman.. you also don't suddenly become gay because you can... it's emotional and hormonal.

3) ? what that got to do with anything? the community has evolved.. as acceptance has.. but not the individual sexual preference... I'm gay.. im not going to suddenly start being attracted to women, nor is my "gay-ness" going to evolve into something else... im not a pokemon... I think you are on some other page and not understanding what im saying at all for some reason... gay men like men.. gay women like women... then there's people who fall in between, but they don't typically shift exclusiveness of what genders they're attracted to once they "settle" and figure themselves out.

 

[Mad Ones]

1) Queer is as cohesive and welcoming as it gets. Categories like "gay" are a compartmentalization. Queer provides a space for trans, pansexual, gender-queer, non-binary etc that are often lost in the compartmentalization of specifically gay male culture (bears, twinks, etc.). You shouldn't dismiss queer theory, I think it's very valuable for tearing down these categories.

2) I agree with some of the things you said. Some people do change their orientation after the have already come out. Just because it isn't as common (yet) doesn't mean it is less valid. I do not believe there is any true sexuality to discover, except what we make "it". There's no "it" to discover. I think there are a lot of very serious problems with biological determinism and I think its a discourse we need to move away from.

3) I'm gay too, but I would never ever say that there won't be some day where my identification changes. I just can't know for sure. But right now I am gay. My point was really to show that sexuality does not exist outside of the body, as some universal, inherent essence that we express. Sexuality is historically situated in specific contexts. As Butler explains "the legacy of sedimented acts" and the body is a "historical situation."

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

meaning.. we've seen bobby's thoughts on the women in his life before... with absolutely no internal struggle that would allude to him being gay...

Spider-Man, Human Torch, and Iceman are all cut from the same cloth... (spidey just got a serious relationship with MJ.. and was more awkward than "hot shot flirt" like the other 2) by the logic of "troubled relationships with women... that means all 3 of these could be gay/bisexual... and hell.. even batman (and most male characters in comics)

All character in comics, really. Because writers refuse to expand and delve too far into relationships.

Cyclops? Psychic affair, kill the wife.
Spider-Man? Faustian deal, devil-erase the marriage.
Didn't Reed/Sue have a split at some point not long ago?
Angel/Psylocke didn't last long.
Rogue/Gambit off/on and left to fizzle
Beast's relationships don't last that long, then he thinks he's gay, then he isn't because he was just being a jerk and pretending, then he's dating green-hair from SWORD but I think that ended too.

Notice only one X-Man from the 1st or 2nd group got married and they had him in a psychic affair, then killed his wife. No other X-Man has been in a long lasting relationship.
Well, I guess I'd give Wolverine credit. He's actually a commitment kind o' guy, but the women keep dying. >_>

They just love hopping characters from relationship to relationship. Actually having one last makes them "unrelatable" or something.

If a comic wants to do something new and unique, have a relationship continue to grow, facing problems together, struggling and disagreeing but coming through it and actually facing hell side by side rather than revolving door that stuff. But that's not hip and cool and easy to get cheap story thrills from. It also take a lot of effort to develop two characters independent of one another while still contributing to the dynamic of them as a couple. Basically it's easier to be lazy.

and the weird story to follow would be young bobby helping older bobby come to terms with his true sexuality...

it's bizzarre as all hell and not the way i think it all should be done

I wasn't a fan of 2 Cyclops, 2 Iceman, 2 Angels, 1 Jean, 3 Beasts (or did Dark Beast get killed?) when they first announced this. /shrug

 

[spideyboy_1111]

1) Queer is as cohesive and welcoming as it gets. Categories like "gay" are a compartmentalization. Queer provides a space for trans, pansexual, gender-queer, non-binary etc that are often lost in the compartmentalization of specifically gay male culture (bears, twinks, etc.). You shouldn't dismiss queer theory, I think it's very valuable for tearing down these categories.

2) I agree with some of the things you said. Some people do change their orientation after the have already come out. Just because it isn't as common (yet) doesn't mean it is less valid. I do not believe there is any true sexuality to discover, except what we make "it". There's no "it" to discover. I think there are a lot of very serious problems with biological determinism and I think its a discourse we need to move away from.

3) I'm gay too, but I would never ever say that there won't be some day where my identification changes. I just can't know for sure. But right now I am gay. My point was really to show that sexuality does not exist outside of the body, as some universal, inherent essence that we express. Sexuality is historically situated in specific contexts. As Butler explains "the legacy of sedimented acts" and the body is a "historical situation."

I'm going to take the queer discussion into the LGBT thread

 

[BoredGuy]

also, keep in mind... the original X-men may have been created in the 60s.. but the timeline is always sliding.. the X-men arn't 50 years old in the books... really only 15-20 years have passed for them

that was the thought that crossed my mind too

these x-men didn't time jump from the 60's
by the sliding timescale, it was like the late 90's, so not exactly a time period where he would have to hide his sexuality

and I think Bendis' worse offense is what he's done to Jean more than this current issue
turn her from the X-men's mother/heavy-hitter basically, into a mind raping, power abusing, non-phoenix havin' teenage Villain
that shall be BMB's legacy

 

[Mad Ones]

From what I understand of the sliding timeline, their 15 years ago is like our 50 years ago. Everything has just been compressed. Maybe?

I like his Jean. I think he was really trying to develop her agency... but went a little too far sometimes. But it's been fun

 

[spideyboy_1111]

that was the thought that crossed my mind too

these x-men didn't time jump from the 60's
by the sliding timescale, it was like the late 90's, so not exactly a time period where he would have to hide his sexuality

and I think Bendis' worse offense is what he's done to Jean more than this current issue
turn her into a mind raping, power abusing, non-phoenix havin' Villain
that shall be his legacy

the sliding timeline has always been an issue... (looks at franklin richards)

I just like to pretend social fads and what nots, still all happened.. just at a much faster pace... idk.. only thing that makes sense to me... at least marvel has been upping the wars people served in now... Reed I believe went from WWII to Vietnam now i think?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

thats why I think its stupid bc they want to have it both ways. [BLACKOUT]You dont start off as gay and change your sexuality as you get older. If someone is gay, then they are gay. You can be in the closet and want to suppress your feelings but deep down, you are still gay. The only way out of this mess is to say that the O5 were plucked from an alternate timeline, not 616 proper, hence making teen Bobby a different character.
[/BLACKOUT]

That's what I'm hoping for, some alternate timeline craziness so I can ignore it.

 

[Mad Ones]

Aside from the Iceman shenanigans, what are people thinking about Bendis' run now that it's almost over? I'm assuming most didn't like it? I personally loved it! He did amazing things with Majik, Jean, and Cyclops. And the Tempest stuff was crazy! The last issue of Uncanny with Kitty and Majik was pure classic Iceman. So was the issue of ANXM that had Emma train Jean with her telekinesis. I honestly really feel like his run is in the spirit of Claremont.

Anka should be the only artist ever to draw the X-men. I love his art.

Of course there are things I don't like. The future brotherhood was just awful. And the Ultimate Universe stuff was boring. I don't think I'll ever like Goldballs... But overall I'm a big fan of this run.

 

[def28]

Very happy it's over. I like alot of books by him in the past but here, not so much. Having him on two main X books was too much.

I tried to like this ANX run and even defended it a few times but it felt constantly in circles, took ages to move forward and even managed to make me hate the original 5. I want those 5 gone. Their time was overstayed.

Uncanny I guess I enjoyed more overall, beyond Magik I don't really have much that's nice to say though. So I'll leave it at that. But there was some decent stuff every now and then.

I liked where things began, but overall both were just extremely boring, frustratingly redundant and not for me in the end. Aside from a few, I just flat out didn't like how he wrote alot of these characters. I am stoked he gave us Eva Bell though, so there's something haha. She's a great addition.

 

[natevegas]

I'm an avid X-men fan and have started a petition to get marvels attention to save them from being phased out and replaced by the inhumans.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/355/831/399/stop-marvel-from-replacing-x-men-with-inhumans/

We've all seen what Marvel has done with the cancellation of the FF ongoing books and their sights are on the X-men now. Not having movie rights have sent them into childish fits in order to somehow diminish or sabotage Fox Studios films.
The petition has gotten some favorable press on comicsheatingup.net
http://comicsheatingup.net/2015/04/23/petition-to-save-the-x-men/

If you are a fan like I am it only takes a minute to sign the petition and if you want to remain anonymous you can do so by checking the box. Fans have a voice and its time it was heard.

 

[def28]

Marvel will be canceling over 30 titles because of Secret Wars. Not just F4. http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/18/33-marvel-comics-will-be-cancelled-for-secret-wars

X-Men are not getting phased out. They have plenty of Secret Wars titles and over a dozen of titles last year. Axel confirmed the X-Men will remain an important part of the Marvel Universe.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Aside from the Iceman shenanigans, what are people thinking about Bendis' run now that it's almost over? I'm assuming most didn't like it? I personally loved it! He did amazing things with Majik, Jean, and Cyclops. And the Tempest stuff was crazy! The last issue of Uncanny with Kitty and Majik was pure classic Iceman. So was the issue of ANXM that had Emma train Jean with her telekinesis. I honestly really feel like his run is in the spirit of Claremont.

Anka should be the only artist ever to draw the X-men. I love his art.

Of course there are things I don't like. The future brotherhood was just awful. And the Ultimate Universe stuff was boring. I don't think I'll ever like Goldballs... But overall I'm a big fan of this run.

I really like his work on Uncanny and Guardians, but ANX always bored me. I bailed right when Miles joined and the O5 have definitely overstayed their welcome to me.

 

[Havok83]

Miles never joined the book. They interacted for an arc but that's it. Ironically that's about when I fell off too, but then again I'm not reading anything regularly anymore

 

[Mad Ones]

I'd recommend everyone read AMXM#37. Emma takes Jean to Madripoor, shuts off her telepathy, and makes her fight the Blob. It was a great one-and-done issue.

But Uncanny was better than ANXM near the end, though the opposite was true in the beginning imo.

 

[Havok83]

I liked both but both suffered from little movement. The last stuff from UXM I read was Xavier's will so I dont know the status quo now, but it made little sense that Scott and his team were still fugitives and this whole mutant revolution was amounting to nothing. IA with the earlier sentiment that the O5 shouldnt have stuck around. ANX should have been a maxi-series and ended after a year. Everything after Battle of the Atom definitely felt forced as they really had no business still being around

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm also ready for a non-Bendis written Beast. He might be my favorite X-Man currently but I'm having a hard time defending him against people who're fed up with his whiny hypocrisy.

 

[Mad Ones]

"Scott Summers was right!" - Hank McCoy

 

[CB Fan]

A Bit Random: You know I'd really like to see the real Jean come back and have her own solo series where she travels the galaxy and has her own adventures.

 

[Havok83]

I feel like ANX has been the closest thing to a Jean solo unfortunately.