X-Men: The Last Stand - Scene By Scene

[04nbod]

Scott's not getting a mention because it's Xavier's funeral. You don't mention other people at someone else's funeral.

well where was scotts funeral he was their leader, their friend,like xaviers son. he meant just as much to them as the proffessor.so where was his reference. it felt like scott dies- the only people to really be affected was xavier and jean. xavier dies - every one turns up. Scott meant more than to just one line to get over. However i did notice how mentions of scott made phoenix go of the deep end in the infirmary and her house- which was nicet:

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

I don't think there's too much of a problem in not showing people traveling all over the place, long scenes of people in cars, on motorbikes, in helicopters, etc, just wouldn't add anything. Given the number of characters, which means many locations, it's not necessary to show all the 'movement.' We were shown it at times - Cyclops on his bike (and obviously he didn't travel 2,000 miles without stopping along the way), Beast in the helicopter, etc. To show everyone's travel arrangements would make the movie a mess.

The problem isn't that we don't see the traveling. I would never want to see the physical traveling. The problem is that the pacing is wrong. It FEELS too fast. Movies need to impart a sense of passage of time, and this movie doesn't do that too well.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The problem isn't that we don't see the traveling. I would never want to see the physical traveling. The problem is that the pacing is wrong. It FEELS too fast. Movies need to impart a sense of passage of time, and this movie doesn't do that too well.

Exactly.

When the X-Men leave the museum, and are in the mansion in the next scene, in X2, you KNOW that time has passed from the time they left the museum until now.

When Beast is in Washington, the next scene takes place in New York, and Beast is there too, it's just kinda "WTF?!"

There was no indication of passage of time. Beast just appears. It would have been nice for Xavier or Storm to at least make some kind of remark about going to meet Hank, because he called or something.

Just having him appear in the mansion in the very next scene, from a few states away, is very fast.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Also, and MANY people miss this, the line 'I'm in' is a joke - he says it after reabsorbing all his clones and as they are no longer outside him, they/he is literally 'in'.

I don't think it is a joke. I think that's looking way too deep into it. I think it's simply put, "I'm in", I'm in with your plan.

But what plan? Magneto only said he could use a man of his talents. But for what?

They may be criminals, but I'd like to think they are at least smart enough to not just get blindly involved with something else. Gambit is a criminal as well, but he wouldn't just blindly accept a job some random guy he's never met before offered up to him.

It's just simply way too fast.

 

[gambitfire]

Simply way too fast.

One sentence describes so much....


edit- About the movie!!

 

[X-Maniac]

I don't think it is a joke. I think that's looking way too deep into it. I think it's simply put, "I'm in", I'm in with your plan.

But what plan? Magneto only said he could use a man of his talents. But for what?

They may be criminals, but I'd like to think they are at least smart enough to not just get blindly involved with something else. Gambit is a criminal as well, but he wouldn't just blindly accept a job some random guy he's never met before offered up to him.

It's just simply way too fast.

It is a joke. I got the joke at the time, and the DVD commentary confirms somewhere that it is a joke. Regardless of whether it worked as a joke, it is a joke. It comes right after all his clones are back 'in'....

 

[X-Maniac]

Exactly.

When the X-Men leave the museum, and are in the mansion in the next scene, in X2, you KNOW that time has passed from the time they left the museum until now.

When Beast is in Washington, the next scene takes place in New York, and Beast is there too, it's just kinda "WTF?!"

There was no indication of passage of time. Beast just appears. It would have been nice for Xavier or Storm to at least make some kind of remark about going to meet Hank, because he called or something.

Just having him appear in the mansion in the very next scene, from a few states away, is very fast.

I disagree here as well. If you can know time has passed since the museum and mansion scenes, then you can know time passes in other places.

For instance, it's obvious that time passes between Xavier's death and arranging a funeral with all those guests and a carved memorial.

Pacing should not remove a viewer's common sense and logic. Even if the pacing felt too fast for many. It's really only that the camera fails to linger for the additional two seconds that Bryan would have allowed and is a directorial style not a 'flaw'....

 

[X-Maniac]

Simply way too fast.

One sentence describes so much....


edit- About the movie!!

You saw it once, five months ago. So your memory of the pacing and structure is not as fresh as others who saw it more often and more recently.

 

[The Guard]

I think having Jean "feel" her friend die would show a much more logical reason for her desent into darkness. It was because of her powers that she felt her friend die. Her powers, and that experience, could totally change her, to the point in which she needs Xavier's help. And he helps her. Unfortunatley, his help is really only a band-aid. And then when the band-aid breaks (mental blocks broken), her desent into darkness begins all over again after her "death", and her subconcious mind was able to take over once again.

I'm sure that feeling death, not just witnessing it, but FEELING it, would be enough to make somebody a bit different...

I'm sure that WOULD serve to mess her up. But explain how that psychologically leads to the creation of an evil personality inside Jean.

Storm took over the school for political reasons; the studio wanted Cyclops out.

I suppose. Cyclops clearly DIED for political reasons, but they didn't have to write a whole arc about Storm taking over the school just because the studio wanted Cyclops out. Methinks Storm needed a larger, more important role, and this was one of the ways they decided to show that. It's not just about wanting Cyclops out.

This scene wreaks of that. It's not just "Storm, I want you to take my place someday", it just wreaks of "Scott is supposed to take over the school, but we're writing him out of the story in an unneccesary way, so we now need to establish you as the one who's going to take over, despite the fact that it should be Cyclops and that was established in a previous film"

Fair enough...but that's you looking at the scene only as a political incident. The scene itself doesn't have to indicate that on its own. It feels pretty organic and natural without the previous knowledge of the political situation at FOX (even though it's a new concept to the franchise, there's precedent for it). It's like whining that Batman's costume looks like rubber because you know it's made of rubber, even though the movie treats it as armor.

They don't even know who he is. He wasn't even there for them. He was there for Mystique.

Then why did he break them out? Regardless of whether or not he was originally there for Mystique, Magneto breaks them out of their cells. They more or less owe him. At the very least, they'd like him.

Magneto is not some kind of iconic figure. He just says "I could use a man of your talents", and Multiple Man blindly says "I'm in!".

We don't know if Magneto is known or not. Pyro indicates that he should be. Multiple Man in the movie is clearly played as a character who does things for kicks. The man who just broke him out of prison and saved him a long prison term has asked for his help. It works. Remember, we never see why Sabertooth, Toad and Mystique joined Magneto. We're left to assume it is because they hate humans as much as he does. Why can't the same apply for Juggernaut and Multiple Man?

How do we know that Magneto didn't want to do one Multiple Man in the butt, while another duplicate did Magneto in the butt?

Hmm...common sense, perhaps?

Pssh... there's plenty of other, less extreme things, that it could have been as well. Multiple Man wouldn't have known who Magneto was (Callisto and the Morlocks didn't even know who he was), and Multiple Man had no way of knowing that Magneto was building an army against the human establishment. It was random.

Yes, but Multiple Man did know that a mutant with immense power broke him out of prison and wanted to enlist his aid. Given the way he's portrayed, it's not a longshot that he'd want into whatever Magneto was planning.

It's not Wolverine's character. He's not a leader.

He's not a "leader" in the comics (I suppose, though there have been many moments where he might as well have been). He's been being developed into one during the movie franchise.

He was made into that character because Cyclops was vital to the plotline. The only problem was Cyclops wasn't around. So they had to get Cyclops in somehow, so they turned Wolverine into Cyclops.

Bunk. Storm could have easily given the same orders. Wolverine got to give the battle speech and the "hold the line" orders because he, and him going from loner to leader has been one of the focal points of this franchise. It was his character arc coming to fruition. And his character arc was to go from a loner to a leader.

Cliche` in the fact that it was a very predictable way for the main villian to be taken out.

Interesting use of the word. Cliche tends to mean "overused" or "predictable character or expression". I'm not sure Magneto being cured is all that "predictable" a method of stopping a villain, really. Especially since we saw the cure weapons destroyed.

If they wanted him to, they could have.

Not if they wanted to remain faithful to Cyclops' characterization and powers. Cyclops might have stood up to Jean, but he could not be atomized over and over again and survive like Wolverine did in X3. That scene was unique to Wolverine's character.

The difference is, that X-Men and X2 didn't jump so frantically around to the point where what was happening was incomprehensible at times.

I don't see anything incomprehensible. At all. All you have to do is think about what's happening.

The characters in X-Men and X2 may move around fast as well, but the pacing isn't so utterly frantic.

It's only frantic because you view it that way. X-MEN and X2 jumped around, too, at times.

Guard's example of the museum/mansion transition is not valid: that's a standard cut.

So wait...it's cool for the X-Men to be at the museum in one shot...and at the mansion in the next...but it's not cool to have several sequences between the time Beast has his government meeting and the time he shows up at the mansion?

What the hell?

On the other hand, The Last Stand expects us to believe that Magneto walked from the harbor to the bridge and the X-Men got from New York to California in the same span of time, which is silly.

Why is that so silly? The X-Jet has been shown to be pretty damn fast, and we don't know how long Magneto and his Brotherhood took to walk/travel to the bridge. If it was a couple hours, then it makes perfect sense.

well where was scotts funeral he was their leader, their friend,like xaviers son. he meant just as much to them as the proffessor.so where was his reference. it felt like scott dies- the only people to really be affected was xavier and jean. xavier dies - every one turns up. Scott meant more than to just one line to get over. However i did notice how mentions of scott made phoenix go of the deep end in the infirmary and her house- which was nice.

Yes, their grieving over Scott was kind of ignored, and that aspect of the film suffered for it. But you don't just fill a movie with funerals...and they didn't, as you will recall, have a body, or even know what had happened to Scott for sure.

The problem isn't that we don't see the traveling. I would never want to see the physical traveling. The problem is that the pacing is wrong. It FEELS too fast. Movies need to impart a sense of passage of time, and this movie doesn't do that too well.

What kind of passages of time did you want to see?

When the X-Men leave the museum, and are in the mansion in the next scene, in X2, you KNOW that time has passed from the time they left the museum until now.

And you can't tell that time has passed in X3 because...

When Beast is in Washington, the next scene takes place in New York, and Beast is there too, it's just kinda "WTF?!"

Unless you figure "Hey, given the fact that we're at a different location now, and Beast is there, some time must have passed".

There was no indication of passage of time. Beast just appears. It would have been nice for Xavier or Storm to at least make some kind of remark about going to meet Hank, because he called or something.

The scenes in between are the indication of a passage of time. There is an entire ethics sequence (which, for all we know, takes place a while after the government meeting)...and then a sequence with Xavier and Storm talking in between. If you can't tell time is passing...or has passed...then I don't know what to tell you. The moment is clearly meant to be a bit of a surprise for the X-Men. So why would the writers broadcast is by having someone say "Oh, Hank is coming over".

Just having him appear in the mansion in the very next scene, from a few states away, is very fast.

Why? How is this ANY different than the X-Men suddenly being at home from the museum?

But what plan? Magneto only said he could use a man of his talents. But for what?

Who cares? Obviously Multiple Man didn't.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

I'm sure that WOULD serve to mess her up. But explain how that psychologically leads to the creation of an evil personality inside Jean.

Well, for one, this idea of experiencing death so closely, having so much power, and not being able to stop death. Look what happened to Anakin in Star Wars. It gives the entire Dark Phoenix story a much more human and emotional anchor. The trauma is what creates the evil personality.

I suppose. Cyclops clearly DIED for political reasons, but they didn't have to write a whole arc about Storm taking over the school just because the studio wanted Cyclops out. Methinks Storm needed a larger, more important role, and this was one of the ways they decided to show that. It's not just about wanting Cyclops out.

I don't have a problem with Storm being the leader, but it was done so casually and in such an offhand manner that it felt hollow. Plus, Storm still didn't have enough material to justify such a large role. Once again, it's like they took her role in X2 and blew it up; just the same as blowing up a small picture, quality is lost.

He's not a "leader" in the comics (I suppose, though there have been many moments where he might as well have been). He's been being developed into one during the movie franchise.

He was developed into Scott's character during X3. But never in either X-Men or X2 was there even a hint of Logan becoming a leader.

Bunk. Storm could have easily given the same orders. Wolverine got to give the battle speech and the "hold the line" orders because he, and him going from loner to leader has been one of the focal points of this franchise. It was his character arc coming to fruition. And his character arc was to go from a loner to a leader.

Again, there was no sign of that character arc until X3. I'd much rather have seen Storm give the orders, and have seen the alternate take of Wolverine's speech, which was much more appropriate for the character.

Interesting use of the word. Cliche tends to mean "overused" or "predictable character or expression". I'm not sure Magneto being cured is all that "predictable" a method of stopping a villain, really. Especially since we saw the cure weapons destroyed.

Well, that just makes it implausible. But seriously--"heroes do something drastic and possibly morally objectionable to stop the villain". It's been done.

Not if they wanted to remain faithful to Cyclops' characterization and powers. Cyclops might have stood up to Jean, but he could not be atomized over and over again and survive like Wolverine did in X3. That scene was unique to Wolverine's character.

Scott could get the hell beaten out of him. Clothes torn off, visor demolecularizing...they could've done quite a bit with this without having the instantaneous healing that Logan suddenly developed.

So wait...it's cool for the X-Men to be at the museum in one shot...and at the mansion in the next...but it's not cool to have several sequences between the time Beast has his government meeting and the time he shows up at the mansion?

The museum is ostensibly in New York, so that cut makes sense. Beast is in Washington, Xavier has like, 5 minutes of class, and then Beast is in New York. Two sequences later, maybe 5 minutes of running time, Beast is now in San Francisco. It's. Too. Fast.

Why is that so silly? The X-Jet has been shown to be pretty damn fast, and we don't know how long Magneto and his Brotherhood took to walk/travel to the bridge. If it was a couple hours, then it makes perfect sense.

Well, what, did they stop at the bloody diner? The Brotherhood was at the harbor. They wanted to go to the bridge. They weren't making any pit stops. Time it takes to walk from harbor to bridge =/= time it takes to fly from Salem Center to San Francisco. The X-Jet isn't that fast.

Yes, their grieving over Scott was kind of ignored, and that aspect of the film suffered for it. But you don't just fill a movie with funerals...and they didn't, as you will recall, have a body, or even know what had happened to Scott for sure.

And they never even bothered to find out, did they?. But they certainly didn't have a problem making a ****ty headstone for him.

 

[gambitfire]

You saw it once, five months ago. So your memory of the pacing and structure is not as fresh as others who saw it more often and more recently.

twice, and don't make me pull out the bootleg please.

That tragedy is fresh enough in my head, it practically left a wound.

Besides i'm not the only one saying it.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Yeah, Nell and I have both seen the movie several times, and recently. And we're saying exactly the same thing.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I don't believe pacing is the problem with this movie. A few quick camera cutaways, yes... but that's not the issue. Scenes such as Kitty and Bobby on the ice pond show that this movie was not hurtling at breakneck pace.

The primary issue is Cyclops demise and how suddenly it happened. And then some of the dialogue was suspect, Rogue's decision is understandable but thematically questionable, and people had waited so long for Angel and Beast that they expected far too much from them. You can see why Bryan had decided to trim these characters out of the previous movies, at least X3 gave a reason (the cure) for Beast and Angel to be there. It's plain that characters like Colossus are difficult to develop as he had limited role in all three movies, and it's plain that movie Rogue is not that much use in a battle where her skill relies on being able to touch someone (the DR scene showed how 'passive' her power is, whereas the others have powers that can be used actively for offence..). That's not to say that it's impossible for Rogue to be in a battle scene...but the difficulty is there...

 

[04nbod]

I suppose. Cyclops clearly DIED for political reasons, but they didn't have to write a whole arc about Storm taking over the school just because the studio wanted Cyclops out. Methinks Storm needed a larger, more important role, and this was one of the ways they decided to show that. It's not just about wanting Cyclops out.

this is one of things i agree with. if marsden had the opportunity to take on a bigger role they would have given him one but circumstances as they were he only had two weeks and to be a leader you need more. it happened to fill halle berrys request for a significant role. 2 + 2= infuriatingly small cyclops role

He's not a "leader" in the comics (I suppose, though there have been many moments where he might as well have been). He's been being developed into one during the movie franchise.

true wolverine has turned into a leader- one of the many misrepresatations of the comic. it is not true to his character and should be considered one of the failings of this movie

Not if they wanted to remain faithful to Cyclops' characterization and powers. Cyclops might have stood up to Jean, but he could not be atomized over and over again and survive like Wolverine did in X3. That scene was unique to Wolverine's character.

i noticed how her regret over what she did to cyclops sent phoenix into a rage. Jean/phoenix still loved cyclops and when it came to the finale she would not have tried to destroy cyclops just telling him to stay out of it. thus giving him the oppotunity to bring jean around. this would have still had the visual impact of the destuction but the emotional resonance that as a comic fan(knowing jean and cyclops relationship) i thought was lacking

Yes, their grieving over Scott was kind of ignored, and that aspect of the film suffered for it. But you don't just fill a movie with funerals...and they didn't, as you will recall, have a body, or even know what had happened to Scott for sure.

there was nothing to say that the funeral couldn't have been for both cyclops and xavier with storm addressing them both in her speech

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm sure that WOULD serve to mess her up. But explain how that psychologically leads to the creation of an evil personality inside Jean.

Traumatic experiences like that can totally twist a person's mind.

I suppose. Cyclops clearly DIED for political reasons, but they didn't have to write a whole arc about Storm taking over the school just because the studio wanted Cyclops out. Methinks Storm needed a larger, more important role, and this was one of the ways they decided to show that. It's not just about wanting Cyclops out.

But... it's just an obviously "we're writing out Cyclops and giving you his role" moment. It's not handled well at all. Even the writers admitted as much. So much more could have been done to actually make it a worthwhile arc. But the whole thing just wreaked of "we're writing out Cyclops, here you go Halle, here's his role"

Fair enough...but that's you looking at the scene only as a political incident. The scene itself doesn't have to indicate that on its own. It feels pretty organic and natural without the previous knowledge of the political situation at FOX (even though it's a new concept to the franchise, there's precedent for it). It's like whining that Batman's costume looks like rubber because you know it's made of rubber, even though the movie treats it as armor.

The scene itself does indicate that though. Cyclops was supposed to get the school. That much was implied in X-Men. The scene just wreaks of "Oh yea, I'm gonna get killed off later in the film, and we're killing off Cyclops so he can't take over the school. So that character arc that was supposed to be his, yea, it's going to you now."

Then why did he break them out? Regardless of whether or not he was originally there for Mystique, Magneto breaks them out of their cells. They more or less owe him. At the very least, they'd like him.

He broke them out because he was building an army.

Callisto and the Morlocks hated the humans just as much as Magneto did. And even KNEW what his purpose was. And even they were a bit skeptical. But we actually see him convince them to join his cause.

Multiple Man and Juggernaut had no idea who this guy was. They blindly followed him. I don't care how much you do stuff for kicks, you don't just blindly follow along with somebody.

We don't know if Magneto is known or not. Pyro indicates that he should be. Multiple Man in the movie is clearly played as a character who does things for kicks. The man who just broke him out of prison and saved him a long prison term has asked for his help. It works. Remember, we never see why Sabertooth, Toad and Mystique joined Magneto. We're left to assume it is because they hate humans as much as he does. Why can't the same apply for Juggernaut and Multiple Man?

And the fact that Callisto, Quill, and Arclight DIDN'T know who he was indicates that he's not known. Of course Pyro would come off that Magneto is some important figure. Pyro believes in his cause, and would follow him to the end.

The difference between Sabretooth, Toad, and Mystique in X-Men is that part of the arc of that film did NOT include Magneto recruiting them for his cause. Part of the arc of X-Men: The Last Stand WAS Magneto recruiting for his army. And for the most part, we got a good indication of that. NOT with Multiple Man and Juggernaut, however, whom just blindly joined him and became his blind followers, willing to sacrifice themselves for his cause that they don't know what it is.

Hmm...common sense, perhaps?

Yea, I was obviously exaggerating. The point is, Multiple Man had not the slightest clue as to who Magneto was, or what he was aspiring to accomplish. You can assume all you want that Mystique may have told him (when, exactly, when both Multiple Man and Juggernaut are essentially in solitary confinement chambers...), but the movie does not establish that. Therefore, in the terms of the movie, it never happened. You can't assume what wasn't established or implied.

Yes, but Multiple Man did know that a mutant with immense power broke him out of prison and wanted to enlist his aid. Given the way he's portrayed, it's not a longshot that he'd want into whatever Magneto was planning.

Multiple Man comes off as a blind follower, with no free will of his own, just doing the bidding of anyone who comes around asking him for help. It's no wonder he's in prison...

He's not a "leader" in the comics (I suppose, though there have been many moments where he might as well have been). He's been being developed into one during the movie franchise.

No he hasn't. X2 showed pretty well that he does things on his own. Remember that part where he snuck away from the rest of the team, without telling them, to go pursue his own personal vendetta, instead of being a team player? Doesn't seem like development into a leader to me. Remember his careless and wreckless attitude in the Danger Room, ruining Storm's entire purpose of the session? Doesn't seem like leadership material to me. The point is, Cyclops was needed to tell this story. They killed him off. So they put Cyclops into Wolverine.

Bunk. Storm could have easily given the same orders. Wolverine got to give the battle speech and the "hold the line" orders because he, and him going from loner to leader has been one of the focal points of this franchise. It was his character arc coming to fruition. And his character arc was to go from a loner to a leader.

Storm could have given those orders. And it would have been very much more in character if she would have. She is 2nd in command after Wolverine, afterall.

Wolverine never had that character arc until the creative team behind X-Men: The Last Stand remembered that Cyclops was vital to the story being told, and fused him with Wolverine's character because they didn't have him anymore.

Interesting use of the word. Cliche tends to mean "overused" or "predictable character or expression". I'm not sure Magneto being cured is all that "predictable" a method of stopping a villain, really. Especially since we saw the cure weapons destroyed.

And it was very predictable that, in a movie where the cure was the ultimate weapon against mutants, that the cure would be used to take out the main villian.

Not if they wanted to remain faithful to Cyclops' characterization and powers. Cyclops might have stood up to Jean, but he could not be atomized over and over again and survive like Wolverine did in X3. That scene was unique to Wolverine's character.

It didn't have to be demolecularization. Quite frankly, the demolecularization was a pretty lame addition to make Jean uber evil. I didn't like that effect.

Cyclops could have marched up against waves of telekinetic blasts, that threw him to the ground. But he continues to get up, and march towards Phoenix, until he finally reaches her.

Alternatives could have been used. Creativity and imagination would have been required, but it could have been done.

I don't see anything incomprehensible. At all. All you have to do is think about what's happening.

Things move too fast to allow things to sink in at times.

It's only frantic because you view it that way. X-MEN and X2 jumped around, too, at times.

X-Men nor X2 ever moved nearly as fast as X-Men: The Last Stand does.

So wait...it's cool for the X-Men to be at the museum in one shot...and at the mansion in the next...but it's not cool to have several sequences between the time Beast has his government meeting and the time he shows up at the mansion?

There aren't several sequences between Beast in Washington and Beast in New York.

Difference:

X2: They are in a museum. It's surely not an interstate trip. It is established, through dialogue, that they are leaving "I think it's time for us t o go". Therefore, we know they are leaving.

X-Men: The Last Stand: We see, in daytime, Beast, attending a government meeting in Washington, D.C. The next scene, is daytime, in New York, with Xavier teaching a classroom. And after that classroom sequence, Beast, is in the mansion. It is too fast.

The scenes in between are the indication of a passage of time. There is an entire ethics sequence (which, for all we know, takes place a while after the government meeting)...and then a sequence with Xavier and Storm talking in between. If you can't tell time is passing...or has passed...then I don't know what to tell you. The moment is clearly meant to be a bit of a surprise for the X-Men. So why would the writers broadcast is by having someone say "Oh, Hank is coming over".

It's daytime in Washington when Beast goes to the meeting. It's daytime in New York when Xavier is teaching the class, and Beast is in the mansion. They are in consecutive scene. Washington and New York are in completely different states.

And it is established they knew beforehand: "Thank you for seeing me on such short notice"

Short notice isn't just appearing in someone's study as they just happen to stroll by.

Why? How is this ANY different than the X-Men suddenly being at home from the museum?

Leaving the museum:

"Professor, I think it's time for us to leave."

"I think you're right."

Next scene, they have left, and are back in the mansion, after establishment that they were leaving the museum, that wasn't a few states away.

Washington to New York:

Beast shown, in daytime, attending government meetings in WASHINGTON D.C.

VERY NEXT SCENE, Xavier shown, in daytime, teaching a class in his mansion in Westchester, NEW YORK. Xavier strolls by his study, and Beast is there!

Who cares? Obviously Multiple Man didn't.

And it makes him a lesser character because of it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I disagree here as well. If you can know time has passed since the museum and mansion scenes, then you can know time passes in other places.

For instance, it's obvious that time passes between Xavier's death and arranging a funeral with all those guests and a carved memorial.

Pacing should not remove a viewer's common sense and logic. Even if the pacing felt too fast for many. It's really only that the camera fails to linger for the additional two seconds that Bryan would have allowed and is a directorial style not a 'flaw'....

Beast going from Washington, D.C., to New York, leaving D.C. in daylight, arriving in New York in daylight, and being there in the exact NEXT SCENE is a lot different than going from a character's death, to another scene showcasing the aftermath of that event.

 

[Leto]

Wow, I think Beast did more teleporting in TLS than Nightcrawler did in X2!

 

[X-Maniac]

Beast going from Washington, D.C., to New York, leaving D.C. in daylight, arriving in New York in daylight, and being there in the exact NEXT SCENE is a lot different than going from a character's death, to another scene showcasing the aftermath of that event.

I still don't feel it's an issue in the movie. As I'm not in the US, I have no real idea of time zones and travel times between Washington and New York. It could still be the next day when he comes to the mansion, surely?

I think this is another one of those nitpicks that, ultimately, matters only to those who are focusing on it.

Sorry Nell but I couldn't give a flying @@@@ about the time differences and travel arrangements. I didn't notice it in the movie, no one else I know has ever commented on it. So I am filing this one away under 'N' for nitpicks along with bridge suspensions, bridge spans and other 'issues' that seem to be the result of what a friend of mine calls 'analysis paralysis' in which one overanalyses and overcomplicates a situation and ruins their enjoyment.

If it's an issue for you, then so be it. It isn't one for me. I don't know the exact logistics of the travel possibilities, and I don't care, just as I don't know if it is truly impossible for Angel to have got to Alcatraz. I'm not concerned with doing a scientific investigations and mathematical calculations on this stuff to find out.

 

[gambitfire]

Well i dunno but i have had alot of friends ask me Angel's top speed in flight and when i ask them why, because they can't figure out how he traveled across the US almost as fast as the X-Jet which does like Mach lord knows what in these movies.



I don't think this falls under nitpick but more under overlooked by a director or writers who really didn't give a dam about it.

Zak tells Simon oh who the hell is going to notice.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well i dunno but i have had alot of friends ask me Angel's top speed in flight and when i ask them why, because they can't figure out how he traveled across the US almost as fast as the X-Jet which does like Mach lord knows what in these movies.



I don't think this falls under nitpick but more under overlooked by a director or writers who really didn't give a dam about it.

Zak tells Simon oh who the hell is going to notice.

He got to Alcatraz a long time after the X-jet arrived. And he obviously didn't flap his way there. With a father who is a billionaire businessman, I'd think he'd easily be able to charter a jet.

Regardless, it isn't the point. He appears literally like an angel. Angels in religion/mythology often appear in times of crisis. If you can't see that, then someone needs to beat you over the head several times with the DVD, the Bible and just about anything else they can get their hands on. Flight times don't matter in the context of the themes of the story, just as we don't question why, in Superman Returns, America's military forces, and most of the world's military and scientific forces, did absolutely nothing about a new continent growing off the east coast.

Suspend your disbelief. If you can't do that, you are watching the wrong movies and should instead be watching factual progammes not fictional movies. End of argument.

 

[gambitfire]

He got to Alcatraz a long time after the X-jet arrived. And he obviously didn't flap his way there. With a father who is a billionaire businessman, I'd think he'd easily be able to charter a jet.

Regardless, it isn't the point. He appears literally like an angel. Angels in religion/mythology often appear in times of crisis. If you can't see that, then someone needs to beat you over the head several times with the DVD, the Bible and just about anything else they can get their hands on. Flight times don't matter in the context of the themes of the story, just as we don't question why, in Superman Returns, America's military forces, and most of the world's military and scientific forces, did absolutely nothing about a new continent growing off the east coast.

Suspend your disbelief. If you can't do that, you are watching the wrong movies and should instead be watching factual progammes not fictional movies. End of argument.

ok you need to chill out.

and the reason the army did nothing in SR is because unlike Angel they don't show up in the nick of time.

Too argue fiction as the reason is simply silly.

Fiction is one thing inconsistence or a minor hole in a story is another.

If it was fundamental it would of been showed that he had at least suitup so we can assume he sneaked on the jet or we would see him leave the mansion so we can assume he was leaving to help, but no it just comes out of nowhere, freakin Deux Ex Machinas is what it practically was.

That's all beside the point it was clearly a minor error and i'm not going to start arguing with you about it, knowing how you are

It didn't kill anyone and it's not the reason i disliked the movie, so how about we just don't get into it.

 

[X-Maniac]

it's not the reason i disliked the movie, so how about we just don't get into it.

Agreed! All I would add is to try to think of the the 'themes' of what is shown, what it is trying to tell you or show, and not fix yourself on things like travel information. Angels do suddenly appear when they are in the Bible or other stories, they are there to save someone in a time of crisis. That was Brett's reasoning....even if you don't agree with it. I agree that it did seem sudden, but it was meant to be unexpected and 'angelic'...

Like the absence of the firebird, it was a 'stylistic' decision, not an error...

 

[gambitfire]

actually it was an inconsistence when put up with X2 and a stylisitc rip-off IMO.

 

[The Guard]

Well, for one, this idea of experiencing death so closely, having so much power, and not being able to stop death. Look what happened to Anakin in Star Wars. It gives the entire Dark Phoenix story a much more human and emotional anchor. The trauma is what creates the evil personality.

It also happened in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE. Trauma by itself doesn't create evil. So explain to me why Jean Grey becomes Dark Phoenix just because she feels her friend die. You have to tie it into power and control...or it doesn't work thematically.

I don't have a problem with Storm being the leader, but it was done so casually and in such an offhand manner that it felt hollow. Plus, Storm still didn't have enough material to justify such a large role. Once again, it's like they took her role in X2 and blew it up; just the same as blowing up a small picture, quality is lost.

Storm wasn't the leader...she just took over Xavier's school. Personally, I don't think it's any more "hollow" than the lame-o "Faith in others can help you survive" lesson she learned in X2 (I guess that was what she was supposed to be learning). It certainly had a better emotional payoff than that moment did. Some of you act like this is the only hint of Storm as a link to Xavier's school that we've seen in the movies.

Look at the previous films. Storm is the ONLY one we've seen actually teach (Motorcycles don't count). In X2, Storm was leading the group of students at the museum, and teaching them. Storm has been the one looking after the children. X3 simply expands that role in a logical direction.

He was developed into Scott's character during X3. But never in either X-Men or X2 was there even a hint of Logan becoming a leader.

There are definite hints in the previous franchise that this is his arc. He steps up and displays leadership skills at the end of X-MEN, and in X2, definitely becomes more of a leader, when he decides to leave Stryker to help the X-Men. Was he intended to become THE leader? Perhaps not, but A leader, I believe so.

Again, there was no sign of that character arc until X3.

Which movies were you watching. Logan was coming up with plans during X-MEN. He was showing a leadership role in X2.

Well, that just makes it implausible. But seriously--"heroes do something drastic and possibly morally objectionable to stop the villain". It's been done.

What hasn't been done? Seriously. I have never, in my life...seen a villain "cured" onscreen. Especially by a character who thought forcing the cure on others was immoral.

No, it doesn't make it implausible...it makes it unlikely. It's good writing.Not only does Arcligth destroying the cure weapons take away the army's ability to use them against Magneto, but it somewhat takes the idea that the cure can still be used out of the audience's minds.

Regardless...what would you prefer them to have done? Have Wolverine stab Magneto? Having Magneto cured allows his character to undergo an emotional moment he would not otherwise have had the chance to have...and provides a lot of depth to his "defeat" than simply killing him.

Scott could get the hell beaten out of him. Clothes torn off, visor demolecularizing...they could've done quite a bit with this without having the instantaneous healing that Logan suddenly developed.

That's not enough. This scene is about sacrifice. Jean conveniently tearing off Scott's clothes, etc, just isn't enough. She has to be trying to kill whoever's doing the march. It was either going to be "Scott talks Jean down", or "Logan sacrifices".

The museum is ostensibly in New York, so that cut makes sense.

But aren't people *****ing about passage of time? BAM, they're suddenly at the mansion. By the same token, Beast is ostensibly in Washington, and he is a high powered government official with the ability to travel all around the country, so him getting to New York, which is maybe a few hours away...makes sense.

Beast is in Washington, Xavier has like, 5 minutes of class, and then Beast is in New York. Two sequences later, maybe 5 minutes of running time, Beast is now in San Francisco. It's. Too. Fast.

So wait a minute...the X-Men are at the museum in X2...and suddenly at home, and you can realize that the movie does not take place in real time...but in X3, you just lose all common sense and what, assume that scenes take place in REAL TIME?

Well, what, did they stop at the bloody diner? The Brotherhood was at the harbor. They wanted to go to the bridge. They weren't making any pit stops. Time it takes to walk from harbor to bridge =/= time it takes to fly from Salem Center to San Francisco. The X-Jet isn't that fast.

You don't know HOW long it takes to assemble an enormous Brotherhood, discuss battle strategy, etc. For all we know, it took hours. I've never walked from the harbor where he was to that bridge in the distance...but I'm willing to bet it takes more than 20 minutes.

And how do you know exactly how fast the X-Jet is? In the comics, it's entirely capable of doing that, and in t's been shown to be incredibly fast in previous films. In X-MEN, BAM, they're suddenly over the harbor, what seems like seconds later. Why can't it have traveled to San Francisco just as quickly, in a matter of hours? There are jets that can do similar things, and as Cyclops said in X-MEN, "If they have anything that can pick up our jet, they deserve to catch us".

And they never even bothered to find out, did they?. But they certainly didn't have a problem making a ****ty headstone for him.

I already admitted that dealing with Scott's death was a weakness of the film. Exactly how would they have found out? There was no body, and Wolverine found his glasses. Phoenix freaked out when Wolverine mentioned Scott, so the X-Men probably had to draw some conclusions. What do you want, a scene where the X-Men look for Scott's body and don't find anything?

there was nothing to say that the funeral couldn't have been for both cyclops and xavier with storm addressing them both in her speech.

Except a massive breach in etiquette...

He got to Alcatraz a long time after the X-jet arrived. And he obviously didn't flap his way there. With a father who is a billionaire businessman, I'd think he'd easily be able to charter a jet.

Regardless, it isn't the point. He appears literally like an angel. Angels in religion/mythology often appear in times of crisis. If you can't see that, then someone needs to beat you over the head several times with the DVD, the Bible and just about anything else they can get their hands on. Flight times don't matter in the context of the themes of the story, just as we don't question why, in Superman Returns, America's military forces, and most of the world's military and scientific forces, did absolutely nothing about a new continent growing off the east coast.

Suspend your disbelief. If you can't do that, you are watching the wrong movies and should instead be watching factual progammes not fictional movies.

Exactly. You DESTROY the IMPACT of Angel showing up LIKE an angel when you BROADCAST that he's going to show up. How he got there is irrelevant. How he REVEALED himself is.

If it was fundamental it would of been showed that he had at least suitup so we can assume he sneaked on the jet or we would see him leave the mansion so we can assume he was leaving to help, but no it just comes out of nowhere, freakin Deux Ex Machinas is what it practically was.

Showing him tagging along, or going there, period, defeats the entire purpose of having him SHOW UP OUT OF NOWHERE.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

it wouldn't hurt if we had a scene of Angel saying he would go to Alcatraz with the X-men. He could appear during the x-jet entering sequence and enter the jet with them. Come on, the "suspense" of Angel's father falling off is 0. It's just bad storytelling.