X-Men: The Last Stand - Scene By Scene

[Boba_Fett_123]

Ororo and Logan were never going to have the chance to save Xavier. They got blown out of the house, remember? Babies do not cry like that, and Logan crying is nothing new in this franchise. It's pretty touching to see how much he cared about Xavier, even with his doubts about him. Logan may be taking the role Scott "should have" had in this franchise, but it's in perfect character, considering how he's been developed in the movieverse. Storm's eulogy is well written, but I agree that it's not delivered so well. It's nice to see the effect Xavier's death has on the students and staff of the school. Why are the X-Men stopping to have a full blown funeral? What kind of question is that? It'd be one thing if Magneto was attacking Alcatraz that day, but he's not. So, with no detectable and traceable supervillain threats to combat, what should they do? Not honor their mentor? They're not psychics, remember? They can't exactly just up and "find" Magneto and Jean and...do god knows what. I don't think the X-Men's reaction to what Jean did was forgotten. It just happens a little later in the film. Taking time to regroup is not a mistake in the writing process. As for Moira attending, I think it's safe to assume that a few days have passed since Xavier's death. Most of the people at that funeral seem to be students. Moira's a close friend and colleague of Xavier's. I don't see the problem with her hopping on a jet a few days later. And come on...Xavier's school must have had a ****load of money to run it. I don't think it's farfetched at all to have a memorial in that span of time.

Phoenix just killed Xavier, and now she's with their most dangerous enemy. That should take precedence.

Wait, wait, wait. Just because Magneto says that when he met Jean he saw the next stage in human evolution (when he met Jean as a child) does not mean that Phoenix in the movie has nothing to do with mental blocks. Nor does it mean that the writers forgot what their explanation for Phoenix is. Magneto isn't neccessarily definitvely telling us why Phoenix is via the writers. He's talking about Phoenix not needing limitations. This scene isn't about what caused Phoenix, but rather, what Magneto wants Jean to realize about how he sees her and what he wants for her. That he will not limit her, or seek to control her. That she need not limit herself, and implying that Xavier did. That causes Jean to trust him, and stay with him. And she tests him...seeing if he will limit her. Through her testing of him, we get to see just how afraid he is of the cure, which is an important motivation in his march on Alcatraz. And then we see him reinforce that he doesn't want to limit her. Callisto is afraid of Jean for obvious reasons...she was there when Jean went berserk. Pyro simply doesn't trust her, as Jean used to be a member of the X-Men. It's nice to see once again how far gone Pyro has turned to the dark side, and how much of that is base arrogance...and it's a great moment when Magneto smacks him down and reveals how he felt about Xavier.

The explanation we are given for Phoenix has nothing to do with evolution. As far as this film is concerned, Jean always had that power, and Xavier locked it away.

Realistically, what to do about the school is a concern. Xavier was the driving force behind it. The scene does come across as a little forced and a little rushed, but it's well acted, and a good story point. It could have been executed a little better. I don't think Ororo ever wants to close the school...Hank just thinks it might have to happen. Hank's little smile at the end of the scene indicates to me that he knew Ororo would step up and take over, and might have just been playing Devil's Advocate.

You're kidding me, right? Everyone is acting like the school should be closed except Bobby, and then Angel changes Storm's mind. Storm JUST DELIVERED an entire eulogy about continuing Xavier's dream, and the VERY NEXT thing they talk about is shutting down? Inexcusable.

This "Logan acting like Scott" thing is absurd, especially in this scene. For two X-Men films, Logan has cared about Jean Grey. Why now is it suddenly wrong to have him try to help her, to still care about her? Yes, it's something Scott would say, but it's also something Logan would say. Logan acts like he's been developed as a character, as someone who still sees some good in his friend. Would Scott have gone after Jean? Probably. But Scott would have taken the X-Men and gone after Jean. Logan goes alone. I don't see Scott at all. Even his dialogue is a bit more abrasive than Scott's would have been. "You stood there and let him die", and making demands of Magneto. You simply cannot ignore all the Logan-centric stuff in this scene because of a few things Scott might have done.

Logan has cared about Jean. But X2 indicated that he accepted she loved Scott, and moved on. And Logan acts exactly like Scott in this film. It's most apparent in the "Boarding the X-Jet" scene. Scott can be abrasive, and should have had the opportunity to be a lot more bad-ass in this film. Unfortunately, he was robbed of that, and Logan is shoehorned into his role.

Someone has to tell the X-Men what Magneto's up to. "Follow me" won't work real well, and would make a rushed scene even more rushed, wouldn't it? The scene is a little rushed to begin with, but I can't think of what else could go here once the pacing gets tense and urgent as it has. As they suit up, Wolverine may be taking on Scott's role in the scene, but in evaluating this sequence, you cannot ignore that this is what has been developed over three films. Wolverine going from a loner who doesn't care about Xavier's dream to a leader who does. It works in that context. "They're ready" is a bit forced, but they clearly are. Storm continues to be strong and definitive, not just a *****. She knows what is going to have to be done, and it foreshadows Logan having to do it. The shots of the X-Men on the jet are fantastic, especially of Beast. You can see he really wishes it hadn't come to this, sending young people into battle over what the adults are doing to each other.

Logan in the comics underwent the exact same character arc. He would never speak like that. Logan is speaking Scott's words here. Logan was developed into being a part of the team, but his arc never should've ended at "Scott Summers".

I don't see why logic has to be thrown out the window to enjoy this scene. Magneto wasn't at the bridge when the X-Men left, he was at the harbor. He has an entire Brotherhood to get to and across the bridge, which is some distance away. There's absolutely nothing to suggest Magneto was ever on the East Coast with the Brotherhood, so him moving them isn't that big a deal, or a plot hole. We don't know how long it took Logan to get back to the mansion, but since he had to wake up, and the President had time to send in his men, odds are it took a while. We can assume he traveled back to Westchester while Magneto and the Brotherhood were headed to San Francisco. The bridge sequence is great on many levels. It's wonderful to see Magneto marching with his Brotherhood. The shot with Leech seeing the bridge he's seen every day moving toward Alcatraz is well done. "Charles always wanted to build bridges" has a double meaning, and a pretty sick meaning to it.

You're ****ting me. There is no way you're serious. The amount of time it takes Magneto to get from the harbor to the bridge is NOT equivalent to the time it takes to fly from Salem Center to San Francisco, and yet the X-Men arrive as Magneto is moving the bridge. Something is off, and so yeah, logic has to be thrown out the window. That's a fact.

 

[The Guard]

So you honestly have no negative opinions about this movie at all?

Of course I do. I wish the movie was longer, and had more in it, simply because I enjoy what's there already. I would have preferred to have seen Cyclops in a larger role. I think Jean's struggle could been shown a little more. I would have liked to have seen Colossus get some kind of emotional moment or characterization. I would have liked a lot of things. And of course there are little lines here and there that I don't like. I tend, however, to be realistic about what can actually be fit into a two hour film. My negative opinions don't lead me to go "It's slightly above average" as a film. Because like I said, it kicks the crap out of most things. It absolutely raised the bar for comic book films in several areas.

I'm paraphrasing, but I'm sure you see my point. It's plainly setting up Xavier's fate, and it's not subtle at all. For someone who likes all the showing and not telling Ratner and company do in this movie, you sure eat up the exposition that sucks.

The thing is, you paraphrasing takes into account the fact that you know what's going to happen. That line is not written solely for the purpose of allowing Xavier an "out". It also raises ethical issues. And regardless, how is that hammy at all? The ethics points he brings up are incredibly relevant to the movie and to the mentoring of his students. It's not like Xavier comes out and says "I will survive an encounter with Dark Phoenix by transferring my consciousness to the body of this man". And I submit that if you are the average moviegoer, and you didn't know the fate of Xavier going into the movie (even after the movie you might not make the connection if you didn't see the final scene after the credits), you probably wouldn't see it for what it is. It's clearly about what's right and wrong in terms of power usage.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, as I made no assumptions about this scene at all. All my comments directly reflect what's on the film.

Didn't you make an assumption that there was more to the Phoenix storyline?

I don't have a problem with Beast being in San Francisco. I have a problem with the speed with which he got there.

I realize that, and I should have been more specific. I'm saying...traveling around the country to investigate Mutant Affairs is clearly part of Beast's job. He probably travels quite a bit. We're never shown how long it is between scenes, so it's not like we have to assume he does it the same day he was at Xavier's mansion. We live in a world where even "average" people fly all over the country for their work in the course of a day. Are you telling me that you can't buy that Hank McCoy, who has an incredibly important position in the federal government, couldn't travel cross country? It's not like the movie shows any specific passage of time. Nor does it have to. Here's why: When we see the last of Beast at Xavier's mansion, it is daytime. It's night when we see that Community Action Meeting, which I believe takes place somewhere in San Francisco. San Francisco/the West Coast is several hours behind the Eastern Time Zone, which means time has clearly passed. We then see a sequence with Mystique in the daytime. Even if it's not the West Coast, it's still a community action meeting (which don't spring up overnight). Obviously some time has passed. When we see Beast meet Dr. Rao, it's daylight, not evening, and he's clearly wearing a different suit and tie than he was at the X-Mansion. While no one comes out and says "At least a day has passed", given the number of scenes we see in between the announcement of the cure and Beast's visit to the cure facility, we can safely assume that Beast travels to Worthington Labs either several hours later, or the next day entirely. And given today's technology, that's not impossible to accomplish. Nor is it remotely illogical.

There's no reason we couldn't have had both Phoenix rising and Scott reacting. In fact, it's kind of what I expected. I can't believe you accept it and apologize for it as it stands. Scott's expression is NOT enough; this is an iconic moment. The firebird was shown in X2. No excuse for excluding it.

I accept it because just like someone seeing something horrible we can't see in a film, it works. I'm not going to apologize for anything. It's a classic filmmaking technique. If Scott bathed in brilliant light as Jean approaches is not enough, I don't know what to tell you.

This isn't the comics: I'll be the first person to say that. But Scott is written out with little explanation. That scene should not have played out the way it did, and wouldn't have if not for those damn "parameters" Fox set.

The explanation is right there onscreen. Jean's powers go haywire and he dies. It sucks that he died. It sucks, regardless of the reasons. But in the context of only the movie (without thinking about politics, etc)...it works.

Like i said, the initial scene does a very good job. But BEAST should be addressing these issues, not Kavita, and certainly not in a scene the character isn't even in.

Beast DID address these issues. You SAW plainly how he felt about the cure, and about it's relation to him. Him suddenly talking to someone about how he feels about it is only going to be redundant.

If they were going to readdress the point, it should have been another character moment for Beast, not an unnecessary lead-in to an unrelated scene (though I do sort of like how Beast's personal issues reflect Angel's own).

It's not meant to be anything incredibly important. It's just a mention of Beast in the context of Worthington's cure. Would it have been nice to see where Beast stood politically on the cure? Sure. But I think the film makes it pretty obvious, since we don't see him hating the fact that it exists, and we see in an earlier scene that he doesn't immediately condemn those that would take it, that his stance is likely to be "it's not right or wrong, decide for yourself".

Still, Beast needed another scene to address those issues. One fleeting shot does not a character arc make, especially since we see no more of Beast's conflict after this.

Not every character can have a fully fledged "character arc" in a movie with fifteen to twenty characters. X-MEN and X2 had the same kinds of "omissions". Why can't you people figure this out?

I didn't say it was totally superfluous. I said it was "maybe a bit superfluous", and even then only in that it's pretty much eye candy. (Very, very good eye candy, though).

It's not superfluous at all. The entire scene is tied into Phoenix's thematics. That's my point.

 

[X-Maniac]

The explanation we are given for Phoenix has nothing to do with evolution. As far as this film is concerned, Jean always had that power, and Xavier locked it away.

Except Magneto does mention evolution, and that he and Xavier thought she represented the next stage of evolution. Meaning she always did. Which is feasible. Xavier says her 'potential' is limitless, Magneto says she can do anything - which is what sets her apart. She has the potential to do anything. The closest to cosmic Phoenix we were going to get.

And her power does itself clearly evolve as this potential begins to be realised. As a child she raises cars, in X3 she is atomising matter, creating impenetrable force fields against the cure darts and creating enough anti-gravity pull to draw water hundreds of feet into the air around the island.

The general idea of her representing an evolutionary leap beyond that of other mutants, and of her power itself evolving is present in the movie.

 

[gambitfire]

SR was visually very stylish but it was also very cold and lacking colour. The FOS looks so bleak and soulless, i would have liked it to be a little more magical and crystalline. The rock of New Krypton was black as hell.

Well that's your opinion.
The New Krypton was the only dislike i had.

Singer does have a tendency to favour dark colours and closed interior spaces (like the dam in X2, the nighttime assault on Liberty Island, the campfire scene in X2, kelly at Magneto's island in X1). Mostly it works fine for creating a realistic look and moody atmosphere but sometimes it's a little too dark. (Minority Report is another movie that is just too damned dark!).

I don't think he favors dark colors i just think that's the tone he had set.
I mean how bright can a Dam be?

and the night time was assault was Night.
If you think about it the color usually went with the setting it was only expanded with the help of maybe a filter or so.

Like most of X2 was the In some kind of interior place with the dark blues or the dam or alkali and even outside Alkali it was snowing so it all made sense. But whenever they where in the mansion the colors where a bit more vivid, but still not too drastic. Expect during the invasion maybe.

X3 just used a brighter colour palette and more daylight shots, it doesn't make it wrong, just cinematographically different.

I never said it was wrong. Yea X3 was brighter, but sometimes it didn't really fit in with the scene, Like during the Angel scene i thought it could of used some of Singer's darkness and then brighten when he jumps out the window, but it all felt the same colors.

 

[gambitfire]

Except Magneto does mention evolution, and that he and Xavier thought she represented the next stage of evolution. Meaning she always did. Which is feasible. Xavier says her 'potential' is limitless, Magneto says she can do anything - which is what sets her apart. She has the potential to do anything. The closest to cosmic Phoenix we were going to get.

And her power does itself clearly evolve as this potential begins to be realised. As a child she raises cars, in X3 she is atomising matter, creating impenetrable force fields against the cure darts and creating enough anti-gravity pull to draw water hundreds of feet into the air around the island.

The general idea of her representing an evolutionary leap beyond that of other mutants, and of her power itself evolving is present in the movie.

I said it once and i'll say it again, we don't know that she couldn't do these things as a child.

She effortlessly raised a bunch of cars, when she was older she put effort in moving atoms and matter w/e the hell she did. So for all we know she could of been able to do that at a young age.

Thus killing any emphasis X3 had on "evolution", well atleast not specifying on it even though it was already foreshadowed and practically set up.

 

[X-Maniac]

I said it once and i'll say it again, we don't know that she couldn't do these things as a child.

She effortlessly raised a bunch of cars, when she was older she put effort in moving atoms and matter w/e the hell she did. So for all we know she could of been able to do that at a young age.

Thus killing any emphasis X3 had on "evolution", well atleast not specifying on it even though it was already foreshadowed and practically set up.

Except Magneto clearly says they thought they found the next stage in evolution.

Clearly, in X3, we are beginning to see her power spiral into something terrible in that final scene, it seems even more than when she was at Xavier's house and even more than when she was in the infirmary making the cabinets rattle. Her power was clearly evolving. Whatever you thought of what was implied in X1 and X2 (and we weren't told much), the idea of evolution was there (just not in the way you were expecting it.)

 

[gambitfire]

That doesn't mean she evolved it just means she's and was more powerful than others.

From what i gathered she was ment to evolve throughout and show evolution.

 

[The Guard]

Phoenix just killed Xavier, and now she's with their most dangerous enemy. That should take precedence

Did you even read everything I said? It's not a matter of precedence. It's a matter of practicality. Even if they wanted to find and stop her and Magneto...HOW WOULD THEY LOCATE THEM? What are they going to do, just "look"? The X-Men have no idea where Magneto and Jean are (halfway across the country it seems, btw). They do not appear to have a psychic presence to FIND Jean. They don't have Cerebro. So essentially, for all intents and purposes, Magneto and Jean have vanished, and are somewhat untraceable. Even the government can't find him. You don't just ignore the death of a friend and mentor to brood about something you cannot immediately solve. You prioritize. So that's what they did.

The explanation we are given for Phoenix has nothing to do with evolution. As far as this film is concerned, Jean always had that power, and Xavier locked it away.

I didn't say anything about the explanation we were given for Phoenix. I simply said (and you have completely missed the point of this) just because Magneto used the word "evolution" when talking to Jean does not mean the writers are telling us that's what caused Dark Phoenix. That's what caused Jean to be so powerful. It's just Magneto buttering her up.

You're kidding me, right? Everyone is acting like the school should be closed except Bobby, and then Angel changes Storm's mind. Storm JUST DELIVERED an entire eulogy about continuing Xavier's dream, and the VERY NEXT thing they talk about is shutting down? Inexcusable.

Xavier's dream isn't confined to just "keeping the school open". Kidding you about what? Liking the story point? Believing it's an important one? Everyone's talking like the school should be closed? When was the last time you watched this movie? HANK is the only one who even broaches the idea about closing the school. They aren't all acting like the school should be closed at all. They're all acting like they don't know what to do next. Hank brings up the idea, and the moment he has at the end of the scene (that little smile) would tend to show he didn't ever think it was actually what should be done. They are searching for a solution, and Storm provides one.

Logan has cared about Jean. But X2 indicated that he accepted she loved Scott, and moved on.

Right. But he still cares about Jean, doesn't he? Deeply.

And Logan acts exactly like Scott in this film. It's most apparent in the "Boarding the X-Jet" scene. Scott can be abrasive, and should have had the opportunity to be a lot more bad-ass in this film. Unfortunately, he was robbed of that, and Logan is shoehorned into his role.

No, he doesn't act exactly like Scott through the entire film. Scott doesn't hide in the forest, or kill people in a berserker rage, or question professor Xavier's methods. Nor does he go off alone to get important stuff done. Considering he was shoehorned into a role, it certainly fits Wolverine well. Wolverine has been developed into a leader the entire franchise. You continue to ignore this fact just because in X3 he takes over for Scott.

Logan in the comics underwent the exact same character arc. He would never speak like that. Logan is speaking Scott's words here. Logan was developed into being a part of the team, but his arc never should've ended at "Scott Summers".

Somehow I cannot see Scott saying "We lost Scott." You're *****ing that Logan gives the speech Scott should have given. Fine. But lost on you is the fact that Scott's not in the film at this point. Yes, Logan took his role. However, it's a role that was developed for Wolverine through three films. You don't have to like it. But he didn't just turn into Scott.

You're ****ting me. There is no way you're serious. The amount of time it takes Magneto to get from the harbor to the bridge is NOT equivalent to the time it takes to fly from Salem Center to San Francisco, and yet the X-Men arrive as Magneto is moving the bridge. Something is off, and so yeah, logic has to be thrown out the window. That's a fact.

How the hell do you know how long it takes dozens of mutants to meet up, plan their strategy, and approach the bridge? How the hell do you know how long it takes the X-Jet (this is not a regular jet, remember?) to fly from New York to San Francisco? The X-Men arrive, my friend, AFTER Magneto has moved the bridge, and after the battle has begun.
What you don't seem to understand is this is not what happened...

MAGNETO: Worthington Labs...it ends where it began."

Juggernaut's lines, Magneto says "leave it to me", etc...

MAGNETO: Ok, Pyro, it's only going to take us three minutes to get down there, assemble our Army, plan our strategy, and march onto the bridge.

Notice, btw...when Magneto says "Leave that to me", how freaking FAR AWAY the bridge is in the background. It's going to take the Brotherhood awhile to get there. Could be hours. Could be less. Regardless, the film never shows us a definitive passage of time between the time Logan reaches the X-Mansion and the time Magneto begins his march on the bridge. Iit's not outside the realm of possibility that the freaking X-Jet can carry the X-Men there quickly enough to get there in a similar timeframe to Magneto's army.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Logan does not have to become Scott in order to be part of the team. But that's what we got in this movie, and it's a problem. Logan doesn't match what we got in the previous film. At the end of X2, Logan tells Stryker "I'll take my chances with them". He's going to be part of the team. What he's not going to do is be the leader, because it's not in his character. He's still a loner, an outsider, and even though he becomes part of the team, he's not going to become the leader. Kinberg and Penn screw with all of that. But we obviously aren't going to see eye to eye on this. I'll be happy to debate you further, though.

 

[XCX]

The Guard, X-Maniac, all good points.

I think I'll review the topic starters comments as x3 was shown, because my skim of it had 1 thought" man this dude has some strange thoughts"

Give me some time...

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Yeah, I'm a twisted person.

 

[gambitfire]

If you're twisted then i must be the devil to him

 

[The Guard]

Logan does not have to become Scott in order to be part of the team.

He hasn't become Scott. Scott wouldn't run off half-cocked, or not take Danger Room scenarios seriously. Those are Wolverine traits, not Cyclops ones.

But that's what we got in this movie, and it's a problem. Logan doesn't match what we got in the previous film.

Seeing as how he joined the X-Men in the last movie, he certainly does. The only difference is that in X3 he takes on a more active, more vocal leadership role. But only at the end of the movie.

At the end of X2, Logan tells Stryker "I'll take my chances with them". He's going to be part of the team. What he's not going to do is be the leader, because it's not in his character.

There's nothing in X2 to suggest that he cannot be a leader. Nothing. Clearly he has to get past "loner" before he can be, and by the end of X2, he has started down that path.

It's been part of his character development from X-MEN onward. He's not the "born leader" type, but he has leadership skills, simply on the basis of who he is. X2 makes it obvious he's capable of being more of a responsible leader...and X3 continues that development.

He's still a loner, an outsider, and even though he becomes part of the team, he's not going to become the leader. Kinberg and Penn screw with all of that. But we obviously aren't going to see eye to eye on this. I'll be happy to debate you further, though.

I don't really see him as THE leader, but his actions in X3 clearly drive the X-Men at the end of the film. Should it have been Cyclops? Yes, but Wolverine absolutely fits that role by the end of X3, and it's not some "sudden change" in character. He values the X-Men, he's just not sure of his place with them. He finds it in this movieverse, leading them into one of the most important battles of their lives.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

He hasn't become Scott. Scott wouldn't run off half-cocked, or not take Danger Room scenarios seriously. Those are Wolverine traits, not Cyclops ones.

Ahem...Scott skipped a Danger Room exercise and took off after Jean against Logan's advice, and presumably without telling anyone else. So...yeah.

I don't really see him as THE leader, but his actions in X3 clearly drive the X-Men at the end of the film. Should it have been Cyclops? Yes, but Wolverine absolutely fits that role by the end of X3, and it's not some "sudden change" in character. He values the X-Men, he's just not sure of his place with them. He finds it in this movieverse, leading them into one of the most important battles of their lives.

It fits with the character as presented in X3. But it doesn't fit with the character presented in either the first two films or the source material.

 

[The Guard]

Ahem...Scott skipped a Danger Room exercise and took off after Jean against Logan's advice, and presumably without telling anyone else. So...yeah.

Not showing up to a Danger Room session because you're grieving is not the same as actually being in one and not taking it seriously, or having a cavalier attitude about the whole thing.

Scott went to Alkali Lake, and pretty much told no one where he was going. I don't recall Logan telling him not to. All Logan said was that it was time to get over it, not that Scott shouldn't go to Alkali Lake. Did anyone even know Scott was going to go to Alkali Lake? I don't remember him telling anyone.

And while both Scott and Logan went on solo "missions" regarding Jean, I was specifically referring to the fact that Logan went after Jean after she turned into Dark Phoenix, went berserk, killed the Professor and joined up with Magneto. I.E, he headed into an extremely dangerous situation with lousy odds without telling anyone or taking anyone along to help him. The Cyclops I know from the comics and even the one from the films, I cannot see going after Jean alone in that situation. He'd take the X-Men.

It fits with the character as presented in X3. But it doesn't fit with the character presented in either the first two films or the source material.

The comics, I'll give you that (most of the time). The movies...why the hell not? Why would the character featured in X-MEN and X2, who showed up when he was needed most...bought into Xavier's mission more and more with each passing film...and did what had to be done...not do what had to be done (inspire his teammates and the Army) in X3?

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Not showing up to a Danger Room session because you're grieving is not the same as actually being in one and not taking it seriously, or having a cavalier attitude about the whole thing.

Scott went to Alkali Lake, and pretty much told no one where he was going. I don't recall Logan telling him not to. All Logan said was that it was time to get over it, not that Scott shouldn't go to Alkali Lake. Did anyone even know Scott was going to go to Alkali Lake? I don't remember him telling anyone.

And while both Scott and Logan went on solo "missions" regarding Jean, I was specifically referring to the fact that Logan went after Jean after she turned into Dark Phoenix, went berserk, killed the Professor and joined up with Magneto. I.E, he headed into an extremely dangerous situation with lousy odds without telling anyone or taking anyone along to help him. The Cyclops I know from the comics and even the one from the films, I cannot see going after Jean alone in that situation. He'd take the X-Men.



The comics, I'll give you that (most of the time). The movies...why the hell not? Why would the character featured in X-MEN and X2, who showed up when he was needed most...bought into Xavier's mission more and more with each passing film...and did what had to be done...not do what had to be done (inspire his teammates and the Army) in X3?

Scott's grieving, but he's still neglecting his duty, something that doesn't seem to affect ANY of the other X-Men after both he AND Xavier died. He is the team leader, and he needs to lead them, or else yes, he's having a cavalier attitude. Xavier says it himself, however idiotically: "Scott is a changed man".

You're right, Logan didn't ever tell Scott not to go after Jean. But he did tell him to move on, which Scott didn't do. He went off on his own, when he's having clear psychological trouble, without seeking help from the people he loves. Basically, he did exactly what you said he wouldn't.

 

[XCX]

If i really didnt have much to say about a scene i skipped it.

1. 20 Years Ago – So far, so good. The monologue is noticeably absent, and it’s a little strange to jump straight into the film, but the scene itself is nice. Already the pacing problems begin to show themselves, as Erik and Charles take no time at all to talk to the Greys. There is some nice banter between them, though, and sets up their background quite nicely. Still, the scene moves too quickly, as though the writers are in a rush to unload the parents, who really needed a bigger role, especially later in the film. Haley Ramm isn’t too terribly good of an actress, but she does an okay job. The cameos by Lee and Claremont work, as does the display of Jean’s power and Erik’s comment “I like this one.” Xavier’s warning is also effective. All in all, a good scene.

This is definitely not when the pacing was noticed for me. I dont know how one can think about talking to the greys. Never ever occured to me there. This felt appropriate length for an intro.

2. 10 Years Ago – Ah, this is more like it. Cayden Boyd is a fantastic actor, as is Michael Murphy. This scene is, tonally, what this movie should have been. Pitch-perfect. This scene segues into the opening credits, which are nifty, but again, they seem out of place in this position, as the previous two films opened with credit sequences. John Powell’s score is very strong, however.

The reason for the monologue was the main thing that shouldve been taken away from the other films: to set up events as best as possible. If it serves the directors goal, a cold intro actually showing events is always welcome and much needed especially since x3 being zip filed and all. The cerebro doors were included so I dont think theres reason to diss Ratner for the superficial familiarities and denying him a little freedom.

3. The Danger Room – Let’s not start on the Sentinel—it either needed to be seen and explained, or not seen at all. What we got was silly.

What I was thinking: Wanna know something truly silly? A sentinel OUTSIDE of the danger room lol. Brilliant choice by Mr Ratner. Brilliant. A perfect way to wink at the comics without getting too over the top. This is an art that filmverse enjoys doing.

5. Rogue and Bobby – Rogue’s angsting about her powers because…well, actually, I’m not sure why, because X2 definitely implied she’d be getting used to them and start being a full-fledged X-Man. Come to think of it, so did the Danger Room scene, oh, 90 seconds ago. I guess the semi-hug between Bobby and Kitty is the reason, and that works well enough, but since that subplot goes nowhere, it’s considerably less effective. But Rogue should be yelling at him about that, not being all passive-aggressive “oh I can’t touch you! but I wuv you! but you don’t deserve me! but I really wuv wuv you!”. Good acting from Anna, but not the character as she should be portrayed given her arc from the previous films.

I think people would be amazed what would happen if a cure actually occured and wasnt expected to be scripted by fanboys lol. Thats one thing i enjoyed about X3... they dared to go "there" as if it actually occured. My kind of style. What didnt help this along was of course how they skimmed over the motives, which are found in Bobby and Kittys get together there. Someone characterized Rogue here as just shallow and i find that ignorant and ironically shallow to say. Human interaction isnt just something you can give up. To draw a loose parallell, In Cast Away, Tom Hanks ended up conversing with a volleyball when he was stranded on the island lol, so not being able to do normal things effects people immensely, and its perfectly legitimate that a human being would attempt to grow into their power but realize for their own mind they cant exactly live their entire lives killing people at a touch. Those changes from the comics people must come to terms with, because it wasnt inferior in any fashion, those are biases from narrow mindedness imo and unwillingness to accept the 3d world that the antastic filmverse has established where things are grey and not always black and white.

6. Scott and Logan – Once again, the scene is too short, but it isn’t a terrible problem. Yet. Here’s the deal: this is the last time we see Scott do anything important in the movie. And all he’s doing is walking down a hall. Mull that over. But we’ll cover that injustice when the time comes. For now…

Ill agree there. More time plz... good god Ratner that was a pigheaded pacing move.

7. Meet Beast – Hehe. He’s upside down. I love Kelsey Grammer as Beast. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the best thing about this movie by far. Such a perfect way to introduce him. I wonder why his secretary gets him after the meeting has started? ...shouldn’t she get him ahead of time? God, she’s an awful secretary. On to the meeting, where Bolivar Trask pretends that he’s gonna be an important character, but is really just a trivia question pasted onto a character who is nothing like the original trivia question. The scene-in-a-scene with Mystique doesn’t work. Why was it set up like that? And on that note, why is it noted that she was imitating Trask? Continuity would say that they should have noticed that Senator Kelly was, y’know, dead.

One of the ways you can tell a film was zip filed was a good actor such as Bill Duke getting like 2 scenes. What the hell happened to all of that trailer stuff? Its interesting how Bretts own cut of the film didnt alert himself of the fact that he sucks at pacing.. hes that far gone apparently because anyone would notice. The secretary never came to mind. Its interesting how people have comments for stuff that isnt even important lol, like Senator Kelly. If i start noticing stuff like that, call an ambulance

8. Ethics class – Really hamfisted setup for a particularly uninspired “twist” at the end. I like the discussion of ethics, but I’d like it more if it tied into the Phoenix story like it really should have. I hate Dell product placement. But in seriousness, these ideas of power and responsibility needed to relate to Jean, and the writers dropped the ball.

I didnt get the significance of that scene at all until the ending. I just saw it as an example of xavier educating the students on ethics, much like x1s session about defining "weak" and "strong". Same thing. Ironic how Xaviers ethics tied into it all.

9. Charles and Storm - This scene is a giant missed opportunity. What should have been a chance to flesh out Storm’s backstory and character just turns into mindnumbing exposition, and the ridiculous statement that Scott’s a “changed man”. Well, he is if you leave in his room by himself for however long it’s supposed to have been since X2 ended. Writing off the leader of the team like that? I have a feeling Tom Rothman wrote that line. It doesn’t work, it reeks of shoehorning Scott out of the story, and honestly it’s just bad writing. Oh, and there’s something Xavier’s not telling us. Zak Penn insists that’s not about the cure, which would be true, because Xavier doesn’t know about it yet. Otherwise, Hank wouldn’t have come all the way from Washington on his way to San Francisco to deliver that news in person. Oh, wait, that doesn’t make any sense…I thought Hank was a doctor? I guess he’s got some frequent flier miles saved up. Anyway, Penn says it’s a reference to Phoenix, but it doesn’t really make any sense. In fact, the entire exchange is stupid, and doesn’t move the story forward at all. It’s just words to give Halle something to do. It shouldn’t have been hard to put in a line, just a line, to give Halle more depth. If Storm was going to get a bigger role, there needed to be some meat added to it. Instead, they just blew up her role in X2, giving her roughly twice the screentime and halving the significance.

Ratners bad edit again. I agree on storms origins. Apparently he filmed damn good scenes for this, and he decided hed be a genius and cut it out. Thats assinine. However, the line about scott being a changed man is quite a strange line to lash out toward. Hes a changed man.. yes he is.. end of story imo lol nothing to pick at. As for the rest, ???? .

10. The Cure – Here we go. More Kelsey is always good. The reunion of Storm and Hank works well, and feels natural. I like it; the film could use more moments like this. But the scene immediately devolves to the PowerPoint style of scripting that Kinberg and Penn seem to favor. Seriously, this scene goes from one talking point to the next like a flowchart, not natural conversation. It’s too fast, and it seems like they just can’t wait to get the exposition out of the way. I’d normally accept this, but it’s not like they’re making room for more interesting characterization, because as soon as the expositing is over, the scene ends. Logan’s back in character, which is good to see. If only he’d stay that way. I have a feeling some of these scenes were written before the Scott “parameters” were set.

Yes this felt natural... but I dont know about it filmed before Scotts fate was decided. Seems to me logan throughout the film was warming up slowly toward the mansion as his home. Him lounging around was a good development for this film, which led into further lessons learned at the end of the film.

11. Storm Reacts to the Cure – I realize it’s not technically a scene, but this deserves its own entry. This does not work. For one, Halle is speaking way too quickly, like she’s reading a cue card that Kelsey’s holding for her. Second, it doesn’t make any sense. She’s being offensive, she’s spewing vitriol that really has no relevance to the situation…it’s not even like she has a point. She’s just reiterating her stance without giving reasons. And she comes off like a *****. This is not Storm. Not good at all.

Halles lines have always been delivered a bit robotic for some reason. In fiction perhaps she often doesnt take it serious enough to sell better. I bought her crying later on flawlessly though. The rest i feel is uncalled for. Her pov is perfectly legitimate. Storms defensive tactics didnt just pop out of thin air. In x2 she mentions anger helping her survive so it wasnt too shocking when she finally let her povs loose in x3. She firmly believes what she says is correct, and from these forums its obvious knowing something is right or wrong is something posters only want to exist for themselves lol

13. The Church of Magneto – The talk of committees is pretty entertaining, and the overacting extras are hilarious. Why does Callisto have a menagerie of convenient powers? Oh well, at least Magneto’s not using Cerebro. Again.

Overacting? I wonder.. has anyone here been to a town meeting or some kind of meeting where landlords decide to raise the rent in a vote? The tenants are there and are boisterous. Id say that was tamed in comparison. Callistos super speed wasnt needed at ALL imo, so I dont know why that was placed in, but why would it be a big deal. It wasnt.

15. Meet Jimmy – And now Beast is in San Francisco. At least we get to see Shoreh. Her skill is almost wasted on Kavita Rao, but hey, it’s Shoreh. Beast’s reaction to Jimmy’s powers are great. Third time the tone feels right for this film. Cameron Bright is kind of a bad actor, though. I still wish Rao and Beast talked a little more after the scene was over.

That entire scene i loved. I think some mistake the passiveness of the kids acting for bad. It was a nice touch how leech knows his powers and is just like "oh yeah, that old thing" when beast walks in and his hand becomes human. Less annoying perhaps than "look what I can do!"

16. Alkali Lake I – Beautiful helicopter shot of Cyclops going to the lake. This is the kind of visual opulence I knew Ratner would bring. The scene starts off very well, as something eerie is plainly going on. Jimmy acts the hell out of it too. The scream sounds a little over-modulated, but it’s okay. And here is the travesty. That whirlpool. Every fanboy in the audience is on the edge of his seat, waiting to see Jean shoot out of the water in a brilliant display of…wait, what’s this? Angle on Scott…okay, well…what’s that light? Is that…aw, ****, it’s Jean. WTF? That’s it? That’s what I waited three years for? Let’s get something clear: the budget for this movie was INSANE. We needed more than a flashlight and a Saran wrap filter on the camera for ****ing PHOENIX RISING. ... A shock cut? WTF?

We did NOT need a phoenix rising scene. Its an obsession of fanboys but everytime they druel over a firebird in a comic they seem to fester up a blatant intolerance of filmverse ideas, and thats just their own problem. The whirlpool was a very nice touch and I enjoyed the sublety of how she rose with the gold light. Its actually a good thing that this film didnt have more sfx. That wasnt a widespread complaint lol. As for the shock cut, once again less sfx. Im happy. I suppose that was mercy toward the cyclops fans. If they showed it i wouldnt mind either.

17. Alkali Lake II – In a scene that’s more or less unnecessary, but allows us to see our stars running heroically, Xavier tells Logan and Storm to go to Alkali Lake. No ****? So they go. Another cool shot, more random words for Halle to say so that her mouth doesn’t get tired. “You don’t wanna be here”. “Do you?” Are you ****ting me? The movie nearly collapses on itself at this scene. Good thing it’s so damn short. The effects are really good, though, and at least the mood is right, if not the words. Or the situation. Or the fact that Scott will not be mentioned again in five minutes time.

I think we better be glad for this and the scene in which Xavier cries out aloud. It was the main scenes they showed emotion and concern toward Scott in such a cramped runtime. If it werent for those scenes, I wouldve wondered why no emotion for Scott either, but due to this Its understandable that pressing issues kept them occupied for the long haul in this film.

18. Examining Jean – Exposition. Snore. A cocoon of telekinetic energy. That’s the only possible explanation. Yup. Whatever, Borg scum. Jean’s mutation is seated in her limbic system, and Xavier blocked them off until she could learn to control them. But Jean developed a split personality and zzzz….Sorry. It’s just so boring. Anyway, the name Phoenix comes out of nowhere because they figure at least one aspect of this story should be faithful to the source. Xavier is really creepy, but he kind of sells the dilemma he has. Until he tells Logan he doesn’t have to explain himself. You sorta do, Charles. But yeah…so far, the Phoenix saga is pretty disappointing. Singer pretty explicitly set up an evolution of Jean’s powers, and to drop that and say she was Phoenix all along seems like more work than is necessary. It works as an explanation, but he seems a little eleventh hour for my taste.

Snore? You kidding me? I was dying to see some exposition after hearing about the botched runtime. Scenes like these were heavensent to me. And once again this disconnect between fans and the explanation of the phoenix saga is just too bad. Many of us know the language of filmverse and there was nothing wrong with it. The name phoenix apparently was a name the personality gave itself knowing it would someday supress Jean and shed be reborn as a new person. Nothing to pick at there. These complaints are ridiculous to me.

19. Angel’s Cure – Again, this is a well acted scene. Ben Foster does a good job, and for once Ratner’s breakneck pacing serves the scene, ratcheting up the tension until Angel breaks out of his bonds. The pose looks kind of dumb, but okay, I’ll bite. The way he runs is a little silly, too, but again, not the end of the world. The shots of Angel flying are great, and I love Jimmy looking out the window at it. The tone is spot on here. I feel like I’m watching the sequel to X2.

Well made scene overall agreed, and I know what you mean about the run. But x2 had some wirework issues etc so fair is fair. "Warren no!" was delivered a little wooden but nothing to point out really.

20. Magneto Rescues Mystique – I like this scene. Multiple Man…oh, man. Eric Dane does so much with so little. Seriously, in about fifteen seconds he totally captures the character. As for Juggernaut…well, I guess it’s cool he got in... McKellen acts the scene really well, as does Romijn. It’s really sad. I probably would’ve lost the “she was so beautiful” line and held the shot of Mystique instead, but it’s effective as it is.

A well done scene.. Multiuple man being the stand out. He was good, but not because he was faithful to comics. He was good is why he was good However Brett combined his good instinct otherwise with keeping the pace too fast, and this is definitely where i noticed everythings falling in place too fast. "Wanna join?" "im in". Cmon. The dude despises quiet time that lasts as satisfying as x2... what gives?

 

[XCX]

21. Hank Resigns – The president is on a slippery slope. Basically, this scene serves to get Hank back to the X-Men. Though I’m still trying to figure out how he’s already back in Washington. Unless it took Callisto a really long time to track down Mystique, in which case, she sucks.

Is this the Oval office scene with Beast chatting with the president? Because I recall that being a pure class act

22. Logan and Jean – I really like this scene. ..there’s no denying these two have chemistry. Famke does a great job of acting the Phoenix part, but the scene doesn’t kick into high gear until Logan asks Jean about Scott. You can see the change in Jean’s eyes as Phoenix vanishes for a moment. The effects are great as Jean loses control. The writing is great, the cinematography is awesome, the acting is wonderful…I’ve said it a few times, but it’s worth repeating: the tone is appropriate. Especially Jean’s pleas for Logan to kill her. The rest of the movie needs to match this scene in tone, and then we’re getting somewhere.

Another flawless scene that mirrors wolverines x1 infirmary scenes. If the blood and feathers wasnt proof enough, Brett shows here that this film pushes the envelope on pg-13 just like Singer did.

25. Jean’s House – Why was that last scene so short? We didn’t need either of those. The necessary plot points could have been dealt with in the beginning of this scene, or, honestly, skipped over. Now, the good stuff-this is the best scene in the movie, hands down. Famke absolutely sells it. But this scene…this is the benchmark for the entire film. This is a worthy successor to X2. ...The only thing missing is the firebird, and again, budget = astronomical = no excuse for skimping on Phoenix.

Did you just say skip over scenes? Hell no. Its bad enough as it is. Yea lets make it shorter lol And once again what we got I definitely dont consider skimping. That would imply it was inferior, which it most definitely wasnt. In fact I was thinking how "realism" minded they were for opting to do this ultimately, in which Jean IS phoenix and doesnt need bird illustrations to prove it to the audience lmao Call me a non fanboy, but I favored the simplicity of it, it was smart.

26. The Funeral – Logan and Ororo rush into the living room, too late to save Xavier. And Logan cries like a baby. Ororo’s eulogy is pretty good. But Halle delivers it really badly. She sounds like she’s reading a script. She doesn’t sound convincingly sad. ...why are the X-Men stopping to have a fullblown funeral for Xavier, but not Scott? Not that I’m complaining, because anything to slow the pace down. But it doesn’t make logical sense to totally forget Jean and just have a funeral, even if it is very sad that Xavier died.

That scene with the empty wheelchair blew me away. Bravo. That was pure convincing there. And Professor X made a louder impact for everyone to have a funeral for. He is the guy who created all of that after all so he would have precedence. Both of these scenes are where I truly realized Brett didnt shortchange emotion in the film, just had a more shortcut way of going about it that wasnt necessary.

27. Skating on the Pond – Oh man, this scene. It starts out pretty well. There’s that clunky “you can walk through walls” line, but it’s forgivable. It’s a nice character moment for Kitty, and Ellen Page turns in a decent performance. Rogue massively misunderstands what’s going on, then goes and gets the cure because she wuvs Bobby so much. Not good. Taken on its own merits, however, this scene really works. Of course, this is the end of the subplot, and it loses points for that because, really, what was the point?

I dont know your reasoning pattern but I see this as a slim explanation as to why Rogue is cured. They didnt expand it how it should have been. Basically iceman takes kitty into the back and rogue peaks. Ok thats the bare minimum explanation you can give.

Me: Care to elaborate Brett?
Brett: "No, not at all!"
Then guess who deserves a thumbs down for that? Those mixed reviews really are his fault here. Action causes a reaction. Simple.

28. Rogue Moves Out – And in case you forgot, Anna Paquin’s in this movie. She plays Rogue just as well as ever, and it’s nice to see the interaction between Logan and Rogue, since they’ve been very close throughout the franchise. Logan is in character again, and that’s always nice. I don’t have a problem with this scene, as it does highlight Rogue’s indecisiveness.

The scene felt like x1s small conversations between the two in the halls of the mansion. Thats a very good thing to wrap the franchise up.

29. Magneto Talks to Jean – Magneto calls Jean the next stage in evolution. Except that’s not the explanation you went with, writer guys. Consistency. Please. Anyway, this scene works really well. It shows how Phoenix really doesn’t care what’s going on. Famke shines in one of the last scenes that showcases her, and indeed, the last time she really gets to talk in the whole movie. This is another scene where the tone is right. Afterward, Pyro and Callisto are afraid of Jean, which makes sense, except she hasn’t proven that she’s unstable to them. Erik regrets Xavier’s death, which is really a nice touch. Unfortunately, he loses all humanity from this point on, save for what Ian manages to salvage through his acting. One of the better scenes in the film, overall.

I really wish fans were more reasonable with this evolution thing. It really has been overblown to the point of absurdity. I enjoyed how Phoenix reminded magneto who was in control here. If this is also the scene where pyro mouths off to magneto and he puts him in his place... outstanding. I loved that part. It characterized Pyro very well as someone who is naively going along with this brotherhood treehouse club without knowing magneto fully.

30. Close the School? – I hate this scene. I’ll just get that out of the way right now. After Ororo gave the whole damn eulogy about keeping up Xavier’s dream, Ororo and Hank want to just close up shop? Oh, and Angel shows up, continuing his arc. Ororo gets to take a stand as a leader, in what I think is the only character moment that has really worked for her so far. We needed to see more of Angel in this scene, but what we get works.

I enjoyed this scene overall. Memories fuzzy here. Didnt they talk about the actual technicalities with keeping the school open here? This indeed shouldve also been a place to slow the hell down and flesh Angel out. Would Brett do this?

Brett: Sorry, not today.

31. Logan at the Grave – Jean haunts Logan at Xavier’s grave. This works very well, though it should be Scott. I think this is where Logan stops being Logan for the rest of the film. It’s a nice, unsettling scene. Up in Logan’s room, Storm confronts Logan. She takes a very militant stance toward Jean, believing that the Jean they know is gone. This would work, if Jean and Storm had any interaction in this film at all. Instead, Storm comes off like a ***** again. This scene works very well in isolation, but there’s no setup, and no payoff.

Nah she didnt come off as a snob to me here. In battle theres black and white. I understood that, and to stay focused they need to have a clear head and accomplish their missions at hand. No payoff? I found much payoff to keeping this mindset. It was called the mutant massacre they had to fight in at the end. You get distracted, split your loyalty, you can screw up and die. Simple. Some folks are taking wrong turns with these scenes... plz.. take the right road

32. The Cure Clinic – Nice character moment between Bobby and John. We finally get a shot of Rogue, and it’s actually pretty effective. When Ratner gets something right, he gets it right.

ALL of the stuff at the clinic was perfection. Rogue, pyro, iceman, everything.

33. Fight in the Woods – Well, it’s Logan. He’s the best there is at what he does, but what he does isn’t very nice. We know. It works very well as an action scene, and it comes at the right time in the film, but it doesn’t mean that he’s not taking over Scott’s role. Magneto’s speech is really excellent, and Ian gives an impassioned delivery. You can really tell he cares very much about the message of this film, and it shows in his performance.

Flawless here. Wolverine action always a plus. Magnetos realization of his brotherhood. Magnificent. This truly was an epic scene. The sheer amount of his army and logan spying in on it was great. He was like.. wow something crazys brewing.

34. Mystique Betrays Magneto – Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Man, Brett, that’s deep. The president did not need to say this. And again, Mystique’s screentime is minimized to a surveillance TV. Perhaps we could have actually SEEN her betray Magneto, instead of getting a corny line about it. The gag with Multiple Man works pretty well, but again, they should be much angrier at Mystique than they are, as it pretty much seems like she tricked them on purpose. This could’ve been a great character moment for her, but Kinberg and Penn are too busy moving on to the climax. Already.

This is very true but I still didnt mind the woman scorned line as it was appropriate. There are areas where one can blatantly notice they missed an opportunity to perfect their film with more character moments and they didnt do it. How about it Brett?

Brett: No.

35. Back at the Mansion – Logan reiterates what we already know. Then they suit up, and Jackman goes into full Cyclops mode. We know there is an alternate version of this scene, one that works better. But this one focuses on “Wolverine” more. Except that he’s not acting like Wolverine anymore, he’s acting like Cyclops. Seriously, give this guy a haircut and slap a visor on him. And Storm makes *****y comments to Logan. There needed to be a contrast to this side of her character, or else she’s just plain unlikable. I like the shots of the kids on the jet. It’s like something Singer would’ve done.

Your insistance that Logan is now cyclops is absurd to me. If it wasnt for that nagging thought blinding you, youd realize Logan is completing his arch of becoming a full on team member and not whinging it alone like he did in strykers lair, and the danger room. The shots of the jet felt like x1 definitely, however it has been brought to my attention that deleted scenes where iceman and company are on the jet engaging in character moments were cut. Whats up with that Brett?

Brett: Stop asking me that.

36. The Golden Gate Bridge – this is obviously a set piece, and it’s a very good one at that. This is the kind of visual grandeur that Singer always seemed to hold back, and it’s scenes like this that make me think Ratner did an okay job, all things considered. This is definitely one that works, if you throw logic out the window. Don’t think about though, because it doesn’t make any sense.

If were thinking about how magneto was holding up the bridge after the fact, magnetism stays intact after the fact, in magnetos case on command. Take a screwdriver and a magnet. Scrape the sides of it together on the steel. Guess what? It now picks up screws for a long time to come as efficiently as that magnet. This is one of those plot points i doubt the poor writers thought fanatics would reject that magneto did it because thats even shocking to ME.

37. Storming the Island – Please keep in mind that the Brotherhood arrived in late afternoon, at best. It’s nighttime now, because Brett thought that’d look cooler. Doesn’t work. We know at least one scene was cut, but I think there were more. I like Pyro’s little war cry at the beginning. Magneto’s plan doesn’t make too much sense, although in fairness he had no way of knowing that the cure had been weaponized on a large scale, and so I guess sending in a bunch of pawns is as good a way as any of learning that. Sucks to be them, though. The big problem here is that Jean doesn’t work as a henchman. Her power is limitless, or so we’re meant to believe, but she just stands around and lets everyone else do their work. Phoenix CANNOT be reduced to a member of the Brotherhood, because she’s just too powerful for that.

There was a scene that I heard of that took care of the night time/daytime thing where Jean notices a scared girl on the bridge. Sun was setting. However thanks to Bretts delightful editing style he gave himself a little bit of a blooper. But it still doesnt take much to get the basic idea: essentially the bridge was moved right at the last stages of dusk and by the time he got there it was night, or by the time they stepped off of the bridge. Sometimes its too expensive to redo a scene (cgi redos of the sky etc) so thats the scene that was made and so they use it. Cant fault them for that.

39.40.41. Alcatraz – So after “hold this line”, then. We finally get to see some all-out action with the X-Men, and it’s a good thing. The climax is pretty much the best part of this movie. They push Worthington off the roof, and—Angel! He must have stowed away with the X-Men. Wish we would’ve seen that, but that’s okay. What is NECESSARY is a scene, just a few words, between father and son. We don’t get that, and it hurts the film. ...Magneto stops Wolverine, but Beast leaps behind him (the effect looks sorta weird here) and Powell’s “cured” motif recurs. Ian does a good job here, but I wish that we’d had a little more conflict among the X-Men using the cure as a weapon, which they should REALLY be against.

This scene was the first giant ground battle for x-men. Excellent. People complained iceman vs pyro was too short but so much was going on that it made sense that their duel would be lesser importance. What they did with the limb growing guy was great. Colossus boxing. That was a great shot. A large Alcatraz jailhouse brawl. Loved it. Magneto getting cured made sense because the x-men arent going to let a small little nitpick of an issue stop them from protecting Xaviers dream. Keep dreaming, folks who had an issue with that. Once again phoenix brings the goods, this time takes the surrounding waters and curls it up around the island... that looked like truly terrifying power. I was feeling Logans fear in that scene, since everyone evacuated and he stayed behind against this uber powerful being on this little island being the volunteer to slay the beast. Great scene. It did weird me out how his healing factor was so strong here, but apparently Jean wanted to be killed and was helping him along so that makes perfect sense. And yes, a few words between the Warrens at the ending wrap ups of the film would help immensely. But dont ask Brett

42. Finale – Two tombstones. They’re pretty ugly and plain. Rogue tells Bobby that she got cured. It’s not what he wanted, but it is what she wanted. And now she can wuv wuv him all night long! Storm welcomes Leech to the school. Hope he doesn’t inadvertently kill anyone by turning off their powers. Hank is appointed as an ambassador the UN, which doesn’t make too much sense. Then Wolverine goes out and looks wistfully into the sky as Powell’s score blares. Oh, no, Angel’s theme. And there he is, flying over the GG bridge as it’s rebuilt. Nice scene. Pan down to a park. Erik plays chess all by himself, and tries to move a chess piece with his powers. It works.

I thought all of this worked. The writers felt Beast would be more useful in politics as opposed to joining the team. Which makes a lot of sense since all along this saga the x-men can thwart threats but dont bring about lasting changes alone. This was very appropriate. I think the final stamp of Ratners A.D.D. was his stylistic sudden cut to credits after a chess piece wiggled for 1 second, barely enough to see what was occuring.

Brett thought he could take Singers style and "improve" on it with this fast cut. The problem is its a step downward... and is basically a game of Russian Roulette like I was saying all before the film. Luckily he didnt blow the films brains out. Almost though.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Well, I'm glad to see you have "knowledge of the filmverse". I'm studying film at university right now, so I think I have some of that too. And long, clunky exposition that's delivered in a straight, non-dramatic manner like Xavier's explanation for Phoenix is generally considered a no-no in film.

As for the Phoenix effect...it was in X2. Continuity would suggest it would be in X3. I'm not sure why it wasn't included.

I loved the shot of the wheelchair. I liked the funeral scene, but it doesn't mean there aren't some logic issues. The Guard gives a good counterargument, however.

GG Bridge: My logic issues lie with the timeline of the film, not with Magneto's use of his powers.

Someone wondered why I thought Phoenix was tacked on: I don't feel that the plot is tacked on. I feel it's neglected. I feel that her action on Alcatraz is very like an afterthought. The main plot of the cure is resolved, and then the writers remember that Jean was there. It doesn't flow, to me.

 

[XCX]

Well, I'm glad to see you have "knowledge of the filmverse". I'm studying film at university right now, so I think I have some of that too. And long, clunky exposition that's delivered in a straight, non-dramatic manner like Xavier's explanation for Phoenix is generally considered a no-no in film.

The irony is if they had less attention toward moving everything along they perhaps wouldve integrated it smoother. But overall I dont think its that big of a deal, as with film making, the closer you get to something the more you nitpick. There are great directors that probably regret some things in great films so small things alone dont set off my radar.

 

[gambitfire]

Well, I'm glad to see you have "knowledge of the filmverse". I'm studying film at university right now, so I think I have some of that too. And long, clunky exposition that's delivered in a straight, non-dramatic manner like Xavier's explanation for Phoenix is generally considered a no-no in film.

OMFG!! THANK YOU!!

I'M NOT A FLIM STUDENT BUT I DO TAKE FILM CLASSES SINCE MY SCHOOL HAS A FILM MAJOR AND I'M IN ANIMATION WHICH IS A FORM OF FILM....


ANYWAYS I TOOK A SCRIPT WRITING CLASS AND A PERFORMANCE AND STORY DEVELOPEMENT CLASS WITH 2 GREAT TEACHERS!!

ONE HAS WORKED WITH TARANTINO THE OTHER ONE IS NOW WORKING FOR WETA AND BOTH OF THEM STRESSED WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

ESPECIALLY THE SCREEN WRITTING TEACHER!!!!!



They emphasis how this was a form of bad story telling and basically insulting the audience intelligence.

We even saw a really bad stupid animation where the characters pasts where told in a form of odly specific and convenient dialogue.........it was so bad and stupid it was hysterical.

 

[XCX]

It never ceases to amaze me how Brett Ratners defiance of the whole fluid style that goes along with more scenes/smoother pacing effected the film. No doubts there.

 

[BMM]

We did NOT need a phoenix rising scene. Its an obsession of fanboys but everytime they druel over a firebird in a comic they seem to fester up a blatant intolerance of filmverse ideas, and thats just their own problem. The whirlpool was a very nice touch and I enjoyed the sublety of how she rose with the gold light. Its actually a good thing that this film didnt have more sfx. That wasnt a widespread complaint lol. As for the shock cut, once again less sfx. Im happy. I suppose that was mercy toward the cyclops fans. If they showed it i wouldnt mind either.

We also don't need an Iceman icing-up scene, or a Storm generating a storm scene, or a Danger Room scene, or a fastball special scene, etc. These are, however, comic book films, and it doesn't hurt to have them actually pay homage to the more iconic images that have contributed to their source’s popularity along the way. Does the visual absence of Jean Grey rising hurt the film? Not particularly. Then again, I don't think its inclusion would either. There are certain expectations associated with these movies in so far as being able to see moments like these finally translated to the big screen (especially one like this that was used as a 3 year teaser, enticing fans to see X-Men 3).

I don't think you could find anyone in the Spider-Man 3 forums who isn't highly anticipating watching Eddie Brock succumb to the alien suit and transform into Venom before their eyes. Could this be done off screen? Sure. But I can't say that just because it would work, doesn't mean that I would be in favor of it.

 

[XCX]

We also don't need an Iceman icing-up scene, or a Storm generating a storm scene, or a Danger Room scene, or a fastball special scene, etc.

Thats for the director to decide. This is the problem. questioning a director why not this why not that... thats called decision making. Thats their right. If one wanted to exercize sublety there because they feel it will benefit the overall film, they have every right to.

 

[gambitfire]

Which is fine but because they made it, it doesn't make it the right choice, Directors make plenty of stupid mistakes and bad decisions. Hell alot ppl do