X-Men: The Last Stand - Scene By Scene

The Guard said:
Phoenix Rising would have been nice to see, but I preferred seeing Scott's reaction instead of a cut from him reacting to Phoenix and so forth, or just the back of him while Phoenix rose. It's a perfectly acceptable filmmaking technique. Just because Phoenix Rising could have worked, doesn't mean that what the film did didn't also work.

Thank you very much. Heres someone thats thinking straight. :up: Of course if one deems films as slaves to be subject to hostile inspection randomly by other sources, you wont be seeing the filmverse picture how it was meant.

The Guard said:
How does one flesh Angel out in this scene without losing the direction of the scene itself? I guess you could have him come to the door and deliver an awkward introductory expository speech...but don't people on these boards hate that?

I was thinking something along the lines of how Rogue was done in x1. An entrance to the school and him settling into everything, having a confidant to flesh him out, much like Wolverine was to Rogue in the train.

The Guard said:
No, insulting the audience's intelligence would be repeatedly pointing out why Dark Phoenix emerged. The writers don't do that in the film, they're far more subtle with her story. Again, the reason most film doesn't utilize this kind of exposition is that most actors can't do it, and most characters appear incredibly forced when you hear it. But Jean has been with the X-Men for two films. She's not being introduced. Only a part of her past is.

Thank you. Its so funny when many other-verse people start saying filmverse insults intelligence yet theyll sweep tons of gobblegook under the rug when they want to protect the comics. You want a dumb down element? "Hey look at the firebird kids.... that means its phoenix in case nobody knew". :whatever:
 
Look, it's this simple: FOX screamed "we're doing the Phoenix saga!" for THREE. YEARS. Phoenix rising from the lake is THE iconic image from that story, and to neglect it is not cool. Yes, Scott's reaction works, but it is the absolute bare minimum they could have given us--which, it seems, is a sentence that can be applied to most of the this movie: the bare minimum.
 
It's pointless Boba don't knock yourself out trying to get across, just let it slide some ppl are open minded to the opinion of others some are just down right Closed it's ok that's life. :D

:p
 
Don't get me wrong, I respect their opinions. But man, I can't believe that they have not ONE negative thing to say. They defend everything as though it's a good idea.

I'm still interested to hear Nell's thoughts.
 
Boba_Fett_123 said:
Don't get me wrong, I respect their opinions. But man, I can't believe that they have not ONE negative thing to say.

My responses to your original x3 analysis clearly state my huge gripe with the film.
 
^^Dude it's cool too, I respect their opinions also, hell i've been on the defense alot trying to defend mine from thread invaders like Maniac and Guard.

It's cool they liked the movie that's fine but i have my reasons for disliking it and considering it a bad film, i'm not the only one apparantley a fair amount of critics feel the same way.

I understand you didn't entirely hate the film either that's fine.

I would like too hear Nell's input too, i consider him a voice of reason in this chaotic forum even if we bump heads at times. :p
 
XCX: Yeah, it does. But you lose validity when you defend things that are just bad moviemaking by insulting "fanboys" who don't understand the "filmverse".
 
Good for you.

We need, like, a newbie orientation thread or something.
 
LOl i don't think he's a newb he said something about being a past member.

OMG i actually pay attention what a surprise. :o
 
Boba, I read everything you said yesterday, but I didn't feel like responding at the time. I'm just gonna come on Storm for now, and then Scott, Logan, and a few others later.

Storm: My favorite character...period. I was VERY dissappointed with her in this film. I don't care how angry she is, Storm WOULD NOT call ANY mutant a coward for wanting to take this cure. If I were Beast, I would have smacked her ass back to Kenya. And IMO, I found her lines to be just plank, because they put it in just to put it in. She didn't talk to Jean, yet she's angry. Yeah she killed Xavier, but THE real Storm would have confronted Jean while she had a chance in hopes of getting her 'sister' back to normal, and stopping her from killing anymore people she loves. As I said before, her connection to Xavier and Jean shouldhave been far stronger than Logans. Their was no reason why Storm couldn't have tried to go see what was going on.


Hotta go! Not finished with that yet so i'll respond later.
 
Boba_Fett_123 said:
Look, it's this simple: FOX screamed "we're doing the Phoenix saga!" for THREE. YEARS. Phoenix rising from the lake is THE iconic image from that story, and to neglect it is not cool. Yes, Scott's reaction works, but it is the absolute bare minimum they could have given us--which, it seems, is a sentence that can be applied to most of the this movie: the bare minimum.

The bare minimum...hmmm

That's a phrase that can and should be applied to the whole damn trilogy. We got barely a reconizable plots, barely reconizable characters. Most of them INO. We were lucky that some had the same powers that they did in the comics.

Scott: ...he was in at least on of these movies, right? Oh yeah, that's right. He was a disaterous leader, then he was kidnapped and forgotten about, then he was killed and forgotten about. I remember when he got kidnapped in the comics, but I'm still trying to figure out where all the other things came from?

Jean: Who was the bland-dried-up-except-when-flirting lady walking around with red hair? I dunno. They kept calling her Jean, but why. Cause it wasn't. Why didn't Jean help stop the bullets with telekenisis in X1, when Mags was taking Rogue from the train station? She just sat there. That's not Jean. I'm not just angry about the worthless "doctor" thing. But there were plenty of other ways to get her alone with Logan, besides that outta left field idea. Why wasn't Jean showing any emotion when Scott was missing in X2? Even when she was making out with Logan. Her mention of Scott didn't seem sincere, kinda just obligatory. It was "I'm talking about him because I have to." She was selfish and a bit cruel to Scott by not giving him the attention she gave to Logan. That was so wrong to me. Scott got dicked in far to many ways besides that. Jean is usually descibed as compassionate. Here she was anything but. The scarificial move in X2 was a plot device for the Phoenix Saga. A prelude to an already choppy version.

Ororo: Who was she? Six years, and three movies later, no one still knows. It was apparent that the writers, the company, the directors, and the actress didn't know. Did they try? Well, they gave it bare minimum effort. The final result is that none of her apperances in the movies were needed. Her appereance in X1 could and should have been absorbed by Jean. And her appereance in X2 should have been absorbed by Scott and Jean. Had that happened then Jean and Scott would have been fuller characters. Jean would have shown her trademark compassionate with Nightcrawler and the children, and Scott would have seemed like a more functional character. Storm could have waited until they were fully prepared for her. Her appereance in the third movie was like it was to little to late, or to much way way to late. Either way, she was still missing a reason to be there. Just as Phoenix was empty and pointless with a firebird, Storm was empty and pointless THREE TIMES without a backround, a story, or a point.

Wolverine: No minimum effort here. To much. And they didn't do it right from day one. WHY WAS HE A VAGABOND CAGE FIGHTER? Never once had I ever seen Logan on the fighting cage circut. Whose ******ed idea was that? Could it have been so hard to write him as a disinfranchised Canadian secret agent? Or a hired killer? Or military man? Or something that was actually already there. Granted Marvel has pumped out terrible repeditive ideas for everyone, but most origins are just fine and SHOULDN'T be trifiled with. The whole idea of turning Wolverine into a leader started with the Liberty Island fiasco. God that must have been so embrassing for James, knowing that his character should have been the battle leader. Wolverine has never really lead. Most of the time it's Scott or Ororo who was to goad Logan into taking more responsibility as an X-man. Well they got the Ororo part right with that, but Scott never really was allowed to shine in his role as the expirenced tacticle leader. Why was that...oh yeah, someone else was already doing it. Now someone tell me, where would "cage fighting" Wolverine get battle ready tactics from. "Hold this line," would have been far more believable coming from former military man Wolverine. Granted he shouldn't have said it all.

More later.
 
gambitfire said:
It's cool they liked the movie that's fine but i have my reasons for disliking it and considering it a bad film, i'm not the only one apparantley a fair amount of critics feel the same way.

The end result may be the same, but the reasons are another issue. When someone starts to take a apart a film on an entirely bizarre level, thats a warning sign to not trust it. Critics have a much better reputation. I can understand the bulk of critics points far more and trust that bias of this sort is out of the equation.

Something interesting I found was that Richard Roeper was annoyed even at the revival of certain characters...and Ebert warned him not to press the issue, apparently afraid of fanboys heh. Filmverse is quite the different ballgame. You need to be more conservative, but I do think they used a logic very fitting in bringing xavier back. After all, he can use other people and talk through them, that wasnt too shocking. I found that scene to be quite brilliant. If now they feel "hey lets abuse this device" then theyll go offtrack, if more films etc are made. Phoenix is dead... a writer even stated it would be blatantly cheesy to bring her back. Smart man.

"Moira my dear". A viewer popped out of his chair in the theater lol classic. :up:
 
I'm rather ashamed of myself for not noticing, the sudden disappearance of Senator Kelly. This is a very valid point. I'm not American, I'm British, so please forgive me if I say anything out of line here. But aren't Senators considered fairly big business over there?
Senator Kelly was just a guise that Mystique used to gain information about Magneto in X2. Once she had the information, she no longer needed Senator Kelly's guise. In X3, she needs access to FDA stuff...stuff that apparently only Trask would have access to. I doubt Senator Kelly would have access to that, so she posed as Trask instead. And yes, Senators are a big deal in America, but not THAT big. Generals, on the other hand...

10. The Cure - The only thing I really have to say about this scene is that it SHOULD have been paramount. It was an essential moment in the film where we realise where the story is going to go. It lasted......how long? WTF is that all about? Talk about rushed and half-arsed!

11. Storm reacts to the Cure - LOL, I wonder if the film makers have realised what a major boo-boo they made with this? I was evil. When I saw the trailer, I really liked the line "Nothing is wrong with any of us for that matter", it sent chills down my spine, and I envisioned an extremely emotional and powerful scene in which the X-Men as a team would have debated the pros and cons of this cure. What a disappointment. We never find out what the feelings of Bobby, Kitty, Peter etc are to this cure. In fact, do they even know about it?! They never have any reaction to it at all.

The announcement of the cure was done about as much as it needed to be. And the reaction to the cure lasted longer. In a film like this, there simply isn't the time to showcase how every single student feels about the cure. There just isn't.

As far as the director's responsibility goes, yes, the director calls the shots. But sometimes he calls the WRONG shots, and TLS is a shining example of that.

I'm confused. Didn't you say you liked the film?

Guard: You're right, Scott isn't being cavalier. That's my error. We do at least agree he is neglecting his duty, though? And that is a very un-Scott like thing. If anything, Scott would bury himself in his work.

I'll agree that he neglecting his duty. I'll agree that it's not like him (normally, when he's not grieving). However, he's grieving over Jean's death. In the comics, Scott actually QUITS the X-Men at a certain point while he is grieving. So there's a precedent for what we see in the film, which is just Scott abstaining from training. No issues with that part of his characterization at all for me.

Oh, and talented writers don't ignore exposition: they make it seem natural, and work it into character moments.

As they did in X3. Xavier was telling a story. Seemed pretty natural to me. A little clunky, but fairly natural. He's explaining how Jean survived...and he points out that this might not be the Jean they know, and then tells Wolverine why. Important points.

A RATHER IMPORTANT PART OF HER PAST that doesn't necessarily fall into place with what was already set-up, thus leading to convenience in dialogue, for the sake of explaining it anew.

What the hell is "it"? Phoenix? Dark Phoenix? Could you be a little more specific?

If you're referring to Dark Phoenix, or Jean's evil actions, they aren't explaining "it" anew. They are explaining an entirely new concept (Jean being evil), which does not contradict what we already know about Jean Grey.
See, this is the thing...what's been set up is that Jean became more powerful because of an evolution of her powers. But that doesn't explain why she went bersek, or why she became EVIL.

This scene with Xavier and Logan explains why she becomes EVIL, because part of her uses her great power (which she clearly evolved) subconsciously, out of pure desire and rage. Xavier's not explaining Jean's POWERS here...he's explaining DARK PHOENIX, which he's worried will rise to the surface if he doesn't cage that part of her personality, which has clearly taken over Jean Grey. This scene does not remotely contradict what X-MEN and X2 set up...it just doesn't openly address it. But let's be honest...why should it? The film assumes you saw X2, and you did, if you know about the "evolution" stuff. And even then, all X2 did was have small, small mentions of "Liberty Island", showed some power growth, and mentioned evolution in a voiceover at the end of the film. No one in X2 ever goes "Btw, all this evolving power will cause you to go evil Jean". For Xavier to start rattling on about evolution causing Jean's power growth is redundant....we don't need to know why she became POWERFUL, we need to know how she became EVIL...and becomes Dark Phoenix.
 
That's another thing that some CB movies do wrong. When the writer, writes the character they don't write them properly, so these characters don't potray who they are supposed to be potraying, it's not just about looking like the character it's about being the character.
You can change an outfit and some stuff, but don't change who the character is.

Scott would never act the way he did.

Umm, which Scott wouldn't act the way Scott in the film did? Comic book Scott? Because, yes...he would act this way (both the original and the Ultimate version). Scott ISN'T written improperly in X3. At all. There's a precedent for his actions in X3 in one of the most important comic book stories of all time. There was a point when he flat-out QUIT the X-Men after Jean died.

Yes he left the X-Men but even then he still wasn't as bad as Zak and Simon wrote him.

He QUIT the team in the comics. He didn't just sit out a session, he QUIT. You're saying Scott quitting the X-Men in the comics because he's upset is somehow less bad than him just sitting out a training session, like he does in the film? I think it's obvious which is "worse".

In the movie, he sits out a training session.

In the comics, he quits the team entirely.

Hmm...

I'm beginning to realize that this "Cyclops was portrayed all wrong" attitude is just bias for the sake of being biased against FOX's politics and the lack of Cyclops in the film. If you're bitter about his treatment, fine. But don't sit here and pick apart everything the writers did with the character, especially when they drew from the comics to do it.

Anyways arguing Scott on the boards is pointless considering the Studio politics behind him

It's not pointless at all. Scott's actions in the film are completely within the realm of something his comic book character would, and HAS done.
I was thinking something along the lines of how Rogue was done in x1. An entrance to the school and him settling into everything, having a confidant to flesh him out, much like Wolverine was to Rogue in the train.
So...in the middle of the movie...you'd want to deviate from the story...to a big long "Angel is introduced to the mansion and finds a friend" montage (or even a series of scenes)? Why, exactly? It's redundant in a lot of ways, derails the movie, and takes the audience right out of the story. Why the hell would a movie about what effects a group of people suddenly become one person's personal story? That's not good writing. I can see it now...four minutes of Angel telling us how he's rich and handsome and likes to follow the latest stocks...and Colossus being his friend...and a repeat of the introductory scenes in X-MEN.

I mean, I can see you wanting him to be fleshed out...but what about Angel would you like to learn, exactly?

However, I can see one scene between Angel and Colossus, though. One quick one. With Colossus showing him to his room, and them talking about where they're from, etc. You know, Russian farmboy meets rich American?

Look, it's this simple: FOX screamed "we're doing the Phoenix saga!" for THREE. YEARS. Phoenix rising from the lake is THE iconic image from that story, and to neglect it is not cool. Yes, Scott's reaction works, but it is the absolute bare minimum they could have given us--which, it seems, is a sentence that can be applied to most of the this movie: the bare minimum
FOX made it pretty clear as X3 geared up that you should not expect to see The Phoenix Saga in it's entirety. For all intents and purposes, fiery "Phoenix Rising" happened in X2. So...brilliant light and Scott's reaction in the absolute bare minium they could have given us? No...they could have gone without the enormous whirlpool, the waterspout, the shockwave, and the brilliant light entirely.

XCX: Yeah, it does. But you lose validity when you defend things that are just bad moviemaking by insulting "fanboys" who don't understand the "filmverse".

The problem is that some people are labeling good filmmaking techniques "bad filmmaking". Can you imagine how stupid someone would come across if they whined about not being able to see the entire shower sequence during PSYCHO? Or how dumb someone would sound if they asked to see Batman sneaking around before he caught thugs in BATMAN BEGINS? Sometimes not seeing is more powerful. And regardless of whether it is or not..."not showing" a major event and allowing the audience to use their imagination is an acceptable filmmaking technique, period. It's one thing to wish there was something else...but to call a tried and true technique of filmmaking and storytelling itself "bad" just because they didn't do it the way you wanted is idiotic.

Wolverine: No minimum effort here. To much. And they didn't do it right from day one. WHY WAS HE A VAGABOND CAGE FIGHTER? Never once had I ever seen Logan on the fighting cage circut. Whose ******ed idea was that? Could it have been so hard to write him as a disinfranchised Canadian secret agent? Or a hired killer? Or military man? Or something that was actually already there. Granted Marvel has pumped out terrible repeditive ideas for everyone, but most origins are just fine and SHOULDN'T be trifiled with. The whole idea of turning Wolverine into a leader started with the Liberty Island fiasco. God that must have been so embrassing for James, knowing that his character should have been the battle leader. Wolverine has never really lead. Most of the time it's Scott or Ororo who was to goad Logan into taking more responsibility as an X-man. Well they got the Ororo part right with that, but Scott never really was allowed to shine in his role as the expirenced tacticle leader. Why was that...oh yeah, someone else was already doing it. Now someone tell me, where would "cage fighting" Wolverine get battle ready tactics from. "Hold this line," would have been far more believable coming from former military man Wolverine. Granted he shouldn't have said it all.

I'll give you that they altered Jean and Storm from their comic book counterparts (thank goodness, "**** Jean" wasn't the way to go in this franchise).

I have to address this rant about Wolverine, though. It's almost humorous. Why was he a cage fighter? Because he was a nomad, had no real "home" to speak of (which is part of his arc), and he was making his living in that particular bar by cage fighting. He was a creature of violence. Question for you: If Wolverine didn't have a military past, can you explain to me why he's wearing dog tags in X-MEN, why Xavier sends him to an abandoned military complex in X-MEN, and why much of X2 revolved around Wolverine's military past with Stryker, and why Stryker, who was a general and a military scientist, was talking to Wolverine about the work they used to do together? Did you notice how many times I said "military"? He WAS a former military man.

Next time, think before you write something so venemous about a part of an entire series of movies you apparently haven't even thought through.
 
The Guard said:
Senator Kelly was just a guise that Mystique used to gain information about Magneto in X2. Once she had the information, she no longer needed Senator Kelly's guise. In X3, she needs access to FDA stuff...stuff that apparently only Trask would have access to. I doubt Senator Kelly would have access to that, so she posed as Trask instead. And yes, Senators are a big deal in America, but not THAT big. Generals, on the other hand...

I never thought Id see people complaining that a character thats been used as a plot device for the last film.. wasnt mentioned lol The guys long dead since x1 people. What the writers did there was assumed people wouldnt ask that, because thats the logical thing to do by common standards, of course notwithstanding the eccentricity of some. Basically, between films they realized Kelly was dead. Old news. Now she imitated Trask. Lets move on with the story for god sakes lol If they mentioned kelly in x3 theyd want to see his tomstone in x4 lol where does it end. :whatever:

The Guard said:
If you're referring to Dark Phoenix, or Jean's evil actions, they aren't explaining "it" anew. They are explaining an entirely new concept (Jean being evil), which does not contradict what we already know about Jean Grey.

Theres a quote that I found to reveal exactly the source of these complaints...

WideAwake said:
But the evolution explaination seems the way Singer wanted to to go with the Phoenix in his X3, and since he is the creator of the first 2 movies, I consider the mental blocks a plothole.

This shows a blatant disrespect for Brett Ratners job as helmer, spite, and laziness to change perspective. Being defensive of Singers films, they see any new interpretation as a threat. Its not just comic fans that are bias. Ive noticed there was a lot of posters that dispersed when Singer left the project. The film makers job was to give us a sharp turn without contradicting anything, just shifting perspective. They did this well. The "problem" with this is all in the head. :oldrazz:

I think some just try to haze films made by new crew and thats why these complaints pop up so often. "Put your head in the toilet again Ratner!" And then expect them to say "Thank you sir may I have another?"

The Guard said:
However, I can see one scene between Angel and Colossus, though. One quick one. With Colossus showing him to his room, and them talking about where they're from, etc. You know, Russian farmboy meets rich American?

Exactly what I was saying. Sounds good to me. It wouldnt be too large to be going in the wrong direction. Lengthy dialogue isnt always the key either.. its deliberate directing that makes short scenes resonate also and it would work perfectly for that. Just a little bit about why he went there, like when wolverine and iceman chatted in x2 about his parents.
 
The Guard said:
I have to address this rant about Wolverine, though. It's almost humorous. Why was he a cage fighter? Because he was a nomad, had no real "home" to speak of (which is part of his arc), and he was making his living in that particular bar by cage fighting. He was a creature of violence. Question for you: If Wolverine didn't have a military past, can you explain to me why he's wearing dog tags in X-MEN, why Xavier sends him to an abandoned military complex in X-MEN, and why much of X2 revolved around Wolverine's military past with Stryker, and why Stryker, who was a general and a military scientist, was talking to Wolverine about the work they used to do together? Did you notice how many times I said "military"? He WAS a former military man.

Next time, think before you write something so venemous about a part of an entire series of movies you apparently haven't even thought through.

You know, people are right about you. Last time I checked Stryker was a religious zealot who was a vocal member of the FoH. He should have stayed that way. Thanks for proving my point.

William had a grudge against all mutants. He had nothing to do with Wolverine.

New Stryker's grudge against Xavier should have been top priority. The movie would have been better had they not tied down Wolverine to the center of it. It was a cheap way to say that Wolverine had something to do with the military.

Oh btw Genious One, where the hell would Wolverine get military backround from if he can't remember anything. He's an amnesiac. The only thing he does remember are flashes from Weapon X. HE DOESN'T REMEMBER BEING A MILITARY MAN! What's the point of that knowledge to him if he can't access it. It doesn't matter how military fake Stryker was, Wolverine WAS NOT! No memory= no expeirence.

And another thing, why was Yuriko in X2? Talk about pointless. Sure it was to show they exerimented on other people, but to NOT connect her to Wolverine was just stupid. Lol, the one character in the trilogy not connected to Wolverine who really should have been. Making the other Weapon X experiment Yuriko and not Deadpool was so not cool.

Where's your explanation for that. I think you need to stop grasping for invisiable straws and pay attention to what was actually shown in the films.

It makes for a better argument.
 
Goddessreicho said:
You know, people are right about you.
Yeah.. he is a very smart guy around here ;)

Goddessreicho said:
Last time I checked Stryker was a religious zealot who was a vocal member of the FoH. He should have stayed that way. Thanks for proving my point.
If youre suggesting they change stryker in X2 you must be nuts. Last time I checked Stryker in X2 was fantastic, sorry that it didnt have some irellevant storyline in it, since thats what some wanted.

Goddessreicho said:
William had a grudge against all mutants. He had nothing to do with Wolverine.
Which is why its so beautiful how it was brought together in x2. Thats an artform, and it doesnt deserve to be demeaned.

Goddessreicho said:
New Stryker's grudge against Xavier should have been top priority. The movie would have been better had they not tied down Wolverine to the center of it. It was a cheap way to say that Wolverine had something to do with the military. And another thing, why was Yuriko in X2? Talk about pointless. Sure it was to show they exerimented on other people, but to NOT connect her to Wolverine was just stupid.
Stupid now? This is the stuff that makes me upset. I find these films to be fantastic and molds for scifi films...

Just because comic fans dont like it, doesnt mean the film wasnt dead on for the filmverse. I dont like it when filmverse is seen as not "right", because it IS right by the very nature of the creative style singer established. Its as 1000% correct as anything and nobody will bring the films down with phrases such as "better" "cheap" or "stupid". Its as cheap as a thousand dollar bill ;) You dont like it, then dont watch the films. You want to watch the films, then respect the creativity that goes with it. Its their god given right.

We want arrogance? This is 24/7 here. Were the arrogant ones... lol pshhh. More like reasonable.
 
This shows a blatant disrespect for Brett Ratners job as helmer, spite, and laziness to change perspective. Being defensive of Singers films, they see any new interpretation as a threat. Its not just comic fans that are bias. Ive noticed there was a lot of posters that dispersed when Singer left the project. The film makers job was to give us a sharp turn without contradicting anything, just shifting perspective. They did this well. The "problem" with this is all in the head.

I agree with you, and that's just it. There's nothing in the film to contradict what Singer presented. X3 doesn't even address Jean's power growing, or why...it addresses Jean's personality changing. There's a huge difference.

Exactly what I was saying. Sounds good to me. It wouldnt be too large to be going in the wrong direction. Lengthy dialogue isnt always the key either.. its deliberate directing that makes short scenes resonate also and it would work perfectly for that. Just a little bit about why he went there, like when wolverine and iceman chatted in x2 about his parents.

Ok, I can see that.

You know, people are right about you. Last time I checked Stryker was a religious zealot who was a vocal member of the FoH. He should have stayed that way. Thanks for proving my point.

What the hell does that have to do with anything I said? I was making a point that Wolverine was a military man. Not that Stryker was a faithful adaption of the comic book.

William had a grudge against all mutants. He had nothing to do with Wolverine.

Are you talking about in the comics or in the film? Because in the film, Stryker is the one who laced Wolverine with adamantium in X2.

New Stryker's grudge against Xavier should have been top priority.

It pretty much was. He even turned Xavier into his number one pawn to use him and the machine Xavier invented to kill all mutants.

The movie would have been better had they not tied down Wolverine to the center of it. It was a cheap way to say that Wolverine had something to do with the military.

Wow. I'm already tired of your immaturity, and I haven't even started arguing with you in earnest.

Oh btw Genious One, where the hell would Wolverine get military backround from if he can't remember anything. He's an amnesiac. The only thing he does remember are flashes from Weapon X. HE DOESN'T REMEMBER BEING A MILITARY MAN!

How has Wolverine ever remembered anything in the comics? Just because he has amnesia doesn't mean all his training and background went away. He still has the background. He just doesn't remember it terribly well.
And another thing, why was Yuriko in X2? Talk about pointless. Sure it was to show they exerimented on other people, but to NOT connect her to Wolverine was just stupid.
She WAS connected to Wolverine.
Lol, the one character in the trilogy not connected to Wolverine who really should have been. Making the other Weapon X experiment Yuriko and not Deadpool was so not cool.
Get a life. Seriously.
Where's your explanation for that. I think you need to stop grasping for invisiable straws and pay attention to what was actually shown in the films.
I think you need to grow up. What was shown in the films is that Wolverine had a military background, regardless of whether or not he can remember all of it or not.
 
"Get a life. Seriously." And you call me immature. If that's your answer to my questions about the serious misgivings of the films than maybe you should take your own advice. Just cause your writing yourself into a hole and people take you as a laughing stock doesn't mean you need to get your panties in a bunch.

OMG who knew that awful line could come in handy! :)

Besides if it was Deadpool and not Deathstrike, at least it would have been fun.
 
IMO people that dont respect the films shouldnt be allowed to watch them. That would balance the whole thing out lol
 
Why, when the characters and storylines never got respected by the film makers, or production company?
 
Okay, so after long wait, here's my take :)

I'll just break down the scenes the same way you did, Boba.

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1. 20 Years Ago – This is a very good scene that helps to establish Jean's character. It gives us a foundation of her powers, and her true potential. What this scene (and overall, the movie) would have benefitted from, however, was incorporating Jean's childhood friend, whom Jean "felt" die. It would help to explain the "evil" Phoenix persona that we see later in the film. With that complaint out of the way, however (and it's more something I would have preferred, rather than a complaint), I do like this scene. I enjoy seeing Xavier and Magneto together, as friends, as they once were. In a way, it helps bring the story full circle, as X-Men and X2 showed their respect for each other, and this brings it around to show us the earlier stages of their relationship. Xavier's line about "Will you control it, or let it control you" is a very good line to lay the foundation of what Jean's arc is going to be about.

It does feel wierd, after X-Men and X2, to jump right into the film, and not have a monologue. But in a way, X2 did kind of "conclude" the monologues, in a way. The end of X2 has Jean quoting Xavier's monologue from X-Men. In a way, it makes it feel as though the monologues have been brought full circle. The monologue is noticeably absent, but I also feel that it's okay, and not all that inconsistent.

2. 10 Years Ago – Brilliant scene. Not only does this scene introduce us to Angel and his father, as well as give the cure a personal story attatchment, but it also helps to show the public view of mutants; Warren's "Oh God, not you", and Angel's "Dad, I'm sorry" truly carry the foundation of what the core of the X-Men mythos is about; being different, and the lack of tolerance that one faces. In this instance, we see a child struggling for his father's acceptance, physically mutilating himself to try to fit in, and not be a disappointment.

It leads into the credits sequence. Obviously, something this minor has no real impact upon the movie. But this is my favorite CGI opening sequence. Powell came strong with the theme song, and it is my favorite theme of the trilogy.

3. The Danger Room – The scene is a bit choppy. However, overall, I feel this scene works. On many different levels. It establishes a few story arcs; Rogue may have come to grips with her mutation in X2, but the fact that Iceman now has a wandering eye is going to make her feel a bit insecure. This scene establishes this particular story arc. It establishes Iceman, Rogue, Colossus, and Kitty Pryde as X-Men. Iceman and Rogue were seen in uniform in the White House in X2. Kitty Pryde was mentioned in the White House (Xavier: "Let's just say I know a little girl who can walk through walls"), and this scene gives payoff to the implication that she'd been doing work for the X-Men already. And establishing Colossus as an X-Men member gives payoff for the bravery he showed in X2 helping to save the children, as well as offering to help Wolverine. It establishes the Fastball Special, which will have payoff later in the film. The ending portion of the sequence establishes that Cyclops isn't right since Jean's death, and perhaps isn't the best leader right now. And it does all of that while giving us the Danger Room, Sentinels, and Days of Future Past all in one scene. Although the execution could have been better, the execution is not bad at all. The concept is absolutley amazing. This scene works.

4. Scott Grieves – I can totally buy Cyclops neglecting his duties because of Jean's loss (and the fact that she is still haunting him). Cyclops has left the team before. His grieving (and eventual departure to Alkali Lake) is totally in character to that. And of course, Marsden is a pretty good actor in this role, and he nails it.

5. Rogue and Bobby – Rogue, who was becomming more confident in herself, has reason to be a bit insecure. Iceman seems to have a wandering eye (at least from her perspective), and she knows it's because of her powers. It establishes Rogue's arc rather well. What I do find kind of ironic, however, is her accusation to Bobby; "You're a guy Bobby, your mind's only on one thing."...... says the girl who cures herself so that she can kiss a boy...

6. Scott and Logan – Wow, I really like this scene. It really showcases Scott's grief over Jean. There is a heavy implication that there's a bit more than just the fact that Jean died that's bothering Scott. We see (for the last time, unfortunatley) the Scott & Logan rivalry. Logan tries to play the supporting, caring friend, but the fact is, he just doesn't understand. And Scott puts Wolverine right in his place. This is the kind of scene that proves that this really should have been Cyclops' movie. But, alas...

7. Meet Beast – Ab-so-freaking-lutley-brilliant. Our first look at Beast is a scene of him hanging upside down in his office. I cannot think of a better way to introduce the character. The scene helps to show what the President's "next move" was after the meeting with the X-Men in X2. It is a new administration, but the fact that there is a Department of Mutant Affairs, and the administration wants diplomatic interactions with mutant kind show that the government has come to an understanding, at the very least, for mutant kind, that not all of them are evil. The scene establishes Magneto as a terrorist, and shows that he's been fighting this war "every step of the way" with his terrorist attacks across the globe. I don't really like Mystique, but I like her scene being interrogated. What's sorely missing is a reference to Senator Kelly. "You know who she's been imitating? Secretary Trask." A mention to Senator Kelly, and the fact that he's dead, should have been made, simply for continuity purposes. But I guess that's a minor detail. We first learn of the cure here, although it isn't blatantly stated what has everyone so nervous.

8. Ethics class – This scene really feels like a Singer type scene. Just with the cameos, and all that... it really keeps the vibe of the school from the previous 2 movies alive. The Jones reference is nice, from X2, keeping a bit of continuity, even if unneccesary. But minor details sometimes can help the larger picture. I love the "Einstein wasn't a mutant... so far as we know" line.

9. Charles and Storm - For the most part, this scene is just bad. The little introduction on the balcony is pretty good, the whole "I don't have to be psychic to see that something's bothering you" is a nice touch of the bond between Ororo and Xavier. The cameo in the hall of the student with the airplanes helps to give off that Singer-feel that the Ethics Class scene did. But the discussion between Storm and Xavier is horrible. "I was hoping you'd take my place someday" "But Scott's..." "Scott's a changed man"... he's no longer Scott Summers, he's Richard White, and he went to Metropolis. This scene is just so full of "we're totally ****ing over a major character, and we don't really care" that it hurts. Storm's "There's something you're not telling us" is quickly forgotten as they meet Beast, and never really recalled again in the film. This scene just hurts.

10. The Cure – It's a nice establishement that Beast knows Xavier, Storm, and the X-Men from a previous time. My only concern is, how did he get here so quickly after his meeting in Washington? I suppose he could have taken that 3 hour train ride from DC to New York, but still, it's a little too fast for my tastes. This is where I first noticed this movie was going to be paced a bit too quickly. But otherwise, it's a rather effective introduction to what is going to be the main plot of the movie.

11. Storm Reacts to the Cure – Throughout this entire trilogy, these actors have become lost in the characters. I don't see the actors portraying characters, I see the characters. That's how brilliant the acting has been in these films. The only difference is Halle Berry; I don't see Storm. I don't even see Halle Berry as Storm. I just see Halle Berry. And this scene is a perfect example of that. She just keeps going on and on like an annoying *****, and finally Xavier shuts her up "Storm! They're announcing it now." The way he calls her name just wreaks of "*****, shut your whiney ass up!" Maybe it's just because I was wanting her to shut her whiney ass up, and would have told her so to her face, so I heard what I wanted to hear. But as the trilogy goes on, I see less and less of Storm, and more and more of Halle.

12. Announcing the Cure – I really like this scene of Warren Worthington on Alcatraz announcing the cure, while Rogue watches on TV. The capture of her face is perfect. In an X-Men deleted scene, she asks about getting cured. And now, here it is... she can get cured. She may have learned to accept her powers and become more confident, but an oppourtunity like this is something too good to pass up. She can cope with her powers, or become what she's always wanted to be. For Rogue to contemplate the cure is actually the perfect arc for her in this film. How it was concluded... well that's for later in this break down. Finally a line from Storm that I like, and that gives the film a sense of dire consequences: "There's nothing wrong with you. Or any of us for that matter." That line just works, and it sits with me.
 

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