X-Men: The Last Stand - Scene By Scene

[gambitfire]

Really Storm was Leader of the Team??...I need to see these scenes...

I agree with about 70% of the scene its refreshing my vague memory of this movie

Scott role was just split evenly between those two......shows how dynamic a character cyke is in the X-verse

#1 X-Men according too IGN.com

and he has a smiley.

But i'm not too sure about that list it didn't have The Cajun

 

[Halcohol]

^I don't give a damn about Gambit, I would've burned the IGN office to the ground if anyone but Cyclops had been the #1 X-Man.

I know it's wrong but after I saw X3 I just walked around in a funk repeating "But... but... he was the first X-Man! He was the first one! How could they just kill him like that?" etc.

 

[gambitfire]

^I don't give a damn about Gambit,

That's nice, keep it to yourself.

 

[Cyclops]

Gambit seriously needs to be cool again. He needs to be fun to read.

I think the only way to achieve that is to sit back, take the time necessary to sort out the mess his character is in and bring him back once they've properly come up with something that works.

 

[gambitfire]

Last we saw he was with Sinister...............considering the circumastances...........i don't like where it's going i don't like where it's been............



SO NOT THE YEAR OF THE CAJUN.

Anyways not the thread for this.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Okay, so that’s the movie. As a whole, I think it works. It’s got great acting from everyone involved, even the bit players. I think that the major faults lie in the writing, even more than the directing. Occasionally Brett makes some mistakes, but he more than makes up for it most of the time. The writing, however, is lazy, hackneyed, and often just plain bad. Other times it’s right on the nose, but it’s too hit and miss, honestly. The movie never reaches the epic heights that we were promised, and that’s a little bit of a letdown for sure. The Phoenix story is largely neglected: it really seems like we just got the Cliffs Notes version. There are many missed opportunities for several characters, especially Jean and Storm. A lot of times there’s a major emotional disconnect, as Jean only ever speaks to Scott, Logan, Xavier, and Magneto throughout the entire film. She’s more important than that, and deserves more than that. Avi Arad thinks that Phoenix couldn’t sustain an entire film. I heavily disagree: more on that in a future fan fic, more than likely. Honestly, I think this film should have been left to either the cure or Phoenix, but not both. They’re never efficiently juggled, and I feel like the Phoenix Rising sequence at the end is simply tacked on because they needed to conclude that plot. While the film does have several emotionally moving scenes, too many of the scenes rely on the previous films, with not enough within THIS film to really make them work. There’s a little leeway because it’s the third film in a trilogy, but not that much. The pace is too fast, and there’s no denying it. Ultimately, we all know that this movie was made by the studio, and so there’s only so much that could have been done. Considering the circumstances, it’s a good movie. It’s not as good as X2. I think it is about on par with X-Men, however. I’m not going to compare it to Superman Returns, because they aren’t similar films at all, and there’s no fair way to make that comparison. Is it a worthy end to the trilogy? Yes and no. It does end all the relevant character arcs, though some (ROGUE) are ended in less than satisfying ways. While subtext in a film isn’t bad, I feel like too many aspects of the cure plot were left to viewer to fill in. There should have been much more sociopolitical allegory in this film, but instead we’re given a starting point, some token (poorly acted) debate, and then thrust into the action. The fact of the matter is, the film feels like two separate movies spliced together. Each plot is strong enough to sustain its own film, and I feel like there needed to be a choice made. It’s not a terrible film. There are many mistakes, but there’s also a lot to like. It trumps both previous films on action, hands down. And the showdown at Jean’s house is probably one of the best scenes in the trilogy. There’s no denying that Ratner has a better visual sense than Singer, although I might be more ready to attribute that to cinematographer Dante Spinotti. It’s not a masterpiece of cinema, but neither is X2. It’s a competent comic book film, certainly better than Batman and Robin, Daredevil, and any number of others. It may be lacking a bit in emotion overall, but several of the scenes are quite moving. In the end, it’s a film with a lot of minor issues, but few fundamental flaws. It’s incredibly annoying that Halle still has nothing to do. It’s clear that no one knows what to do with Storm, and she got the screentime simply because she’s Halle Berry. This character CAN be done justice, but no one seems to want to be bothered. Jackman is still very good, but the writers essentially turn him into Cyclops for the last act. Of course, that’s because it should be Cyclops, but Wolverine is more marketable. That’s inexcusable, and this isn’t a fan-specific issue, either: it’s incongruous with the first two films. The rest of the characters are good, even those who don’t have too much time to shine. All things considered, it’s slightly above average. I hate rating films, but I figure it’s a good way to cap this off. I’ll give my score on a normal letter scale. X-Men: The Last Stand gets a B- from me. To put that in perspective, X-Men gets a B+, and X2 gets an A. It’s not awful. It does everything well, but not as well as the A movie (or, for that matter, the B+ movie). A B- is still above average, though, which I do believe this film is. It could and should have been a hell of a lot worse. This is getting sort of longwinded now, so that’ll just be the end. But hopefully this makes my views a lot clearer, since I know I’ve confused myself as far as my opinions on this movie are concerned. Take it for what it’s worth, and I look forward to hearing your takes as well.

Par

A

Graphs



Anyways, I'll give my breakdown in a bit. Futurama comes on in about 15, and I can't be bothered to miss it.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Par

A

Graphs



Anyways, I'll give my breakdown in a bit. Futurama comes on in about 15, and I can't be bothered to miss it.

Hehe...stream of consciousness + insomnia = that. It's fixed. t:

 

[Halcohol]

Hey, sometimes it's refreshing to read a giant essay rather than another round of Guardball

 

[X-Maniac]

The sad part is that Storm did have a dialogue scene revealing something of her past, and it was filmed, but was cut from the movie and is not a proper deleted scene on the DVD (it’s being filmed in the background during one of the DVD extras).

The sad part also is that Phoenix could have been tied into the cure. The destruction at Jean’s parents house could have been part of the government’s reason for weaponising the cure, and further scenes of awesome power in the pre-viz could have advanced this idea further.

Oh well...

 

[La_She-Beast]

I agree with everything... let me just give you the 2% I don't...

Beast quotes Churchill, and simultaneously Kelsey totally channels the character. Perfect casting.

Haha. No. Nonononono. I'd love to agree but that was... corny. "I'm way too busy kicking butt! I'm the Beast, b¡tch!" And it's constantly like that. Smart phrases by the heroes. Kitty's "d¡ckhead", Wolverine's "grow those back", Storm's 'macho/chulo' expressions, Iceman's "you shouldn't have left" Colossus'... oh wait. He's not in the movie. I think. I dunno. Wouldn't it be more climatic the 'baddies' are winning? For a change? Once again it's 'go go Power Rangers'. I'm really tired of always watching there's way too much evidence of the goodies 'winning'.

Oh and please explain me with what you mean by Ratner has better visual qualities than Singer? I hardly agree with that.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

Beast said things like that all the time in TAS. It really worked for me. As for Ratner's visual qualities:

1. There are more colors in this film than shades of blue and brown, which is refreshing.
2. The helicopter shot over Alkali Lake, Jean looking out into the forest, the X-Men lined up at Alcatraz, Magneto moving the bridge--to me, there is more dynamism to Ratner's shots than Singer's, but that's just me. X3 is, IMO, more visually exciting than the other two: the camera has more life, everything is bigger. I feel like I'm watching superheroes on the big screen, whereas the first two, visually, feel more like "Heroes" on NBC right now. Of course, that's a double-edge sword, but on a solely visual sense Ratner wins.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Beast said things like that all the time in TAS. It really worked for me.

I guess we don't agree here. The TAS and the movie are two completely different worlds. One is fun to watch and the other has its own dignity, imo. I laughed so much with Wolverine's voice dubbed in spanish... he seems as he had asthma or something. And seriously, would you like to see Movie Beast in his underwear with a backpack swinging everywhere? He continously paraphrases what somebody says/does but with "smart" words. It's what I felt, at least, with the TAS.

As for Ratner's visual qualities:

1. There are more colors in this film than shades of blue and brown, which is refreshing.
2. The helicopter shot over Alkali Lake, Jean looking out into the forest, the X-Men lined up at Alcatraz, Magneto moving the bridge--to me, there is more dynamism to Ratner's shots than Singer's, but that's just me. X3 is, IMO, more visually exciting than the other two: the camera has more life, everything is bigger. I feel like I'm watching superheroes on the big screen, whereas the first two, visually, feel more like "Heroes" on NBC right now. Of course, that's a double-edge sword, but on a solely visual sense Ratner wins.

I agree. Thing is, I prefer more the experimentation/try new things with the camera... for example when it passes through the keyhole in Nightcrawler's intro, or when Scott turns to see Yuriko behind him, the camera lowers to make a new perspective- a perspective that communicates majesty from the character. Those details are very nice touches. And X3 lacked imo.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'll post my piece tonight.

I have to head out to work in a couple minutes, so I don't have time to whip up a long, in depth, scene by scene analysis.

But when I get home tonight, I should be able to.

 

[The Guard]

1. 20 Years Ago – So far, so good. The monologue is noticeably absent, and it’s a little strange to jump straight into the film, but the scene itself is nice. Already the pacing problems begin to show themselves, as Erik and Charles take no time at all to talk to the Greys. There is some nice banter between them, though, and sets up their background quite nicely. Still, the scene moves too quickly, as though the writers are in a rush to unload the parents, who really needed a bigger role, especially later in the film. Haley Ramm isn’t too terribly good of an actress, but she does an okay job. The cameos by Lee and Claremont work, as does the display of Jean’s power and Erik’s comment “I like this one.” Xavier’s warning is also effective. All in all, a good scene.

They left in the Fox "X", which was a nice touch. Xavier's monologue is indeed missed (Although I'm not a huge fan of the one left out of the movie, it doesn't really say anything important about the mythology), but the atmosphere the introductory scene creates is fantastic. Nevermind that it's just a beautiful visual sequence. For the first time ever, we see what must be the Golden Age of Xavier's dream, when he and Magneto worked together for mutant rights, despite having differing views on mutants and their gifts. I love the line about power corrupting, and I love the little bit about "my feelings on the misuse of power". The pacing problems don't seem that apparent to me, nor do I feel that Xavier and Charles don't talk enough to the parents. They're recruiting. We get that right away as an audience. So we don't need to see a three minute scene of them spelling out what the school is about. We know what it's about from previous films. What we do need to see in terms of important story points, we see; the parents trepidation over Jean attending a school for mutants...their apprehension about Jean's abilities, the father's belief that mutation is "something wrong" with Jean (a large focus of the X-Men mythos, and thematically important to this film). And then, more importantly, we see both Xavier and Magneto's approaches to young mutants, and we see who Jean used to be, where we can easily see the seeds for The Phoenix, a being of power, and Dark Phoenix, the all powerful being who doesn't want to be controlled or tamed. Xavier's hint at power and control is great, as this becomes the entire issue with Dark Phoenix. As it should, the scene sets up the thematics behind the film. I love the scene, and I'm not sure there's much more that could have been added to it in terms of dialogue that would really be relevant.

2. 10 Years Ago – Ah, this is more like it. Cayden Boyd is a fantastic actor, as is Michael Murphy. This scene is, tonally, what this movie should have been. Pitch-perfect. This scene segues into the opening credits, which are nifty, but again, they seem out of place in this position, as the previous two films opened with credit sequences. John Powell’s score is very strong, however.

A wonderful scene, both for Angel's character, and his father's, and the main thematic of the film. It's great to see the movie show us the actual impact that being hated and feared for being different has on a mutant, especially a young one. Through Warren Sr's lines, we see the fear parents experience when their children are mutants (for the second consecutive scene, so it must be important). And the way that Angel's trauma catapaults us into the production of the cure is great.

3. The Danger Room – Ah, yes. The Danger Room. All that waiting doesn’t seem quite worth it now, does it? This scene suffers quite a bit from the editor’s Wolvie-centric knife, as a lot of potential characterization is either cut to the minimum or totally neglected in favor of following Logan around the entire time. And the acting is pretty bad all around, except maybe Anna Paquin’s. Let’s not start on the Sentinel—it either needed to be seen and explained, or not seen at all. What we got was silly. Colossus’ metal form is perfectly okay; I don’t see what the big deal was. Of course, even when directly addressed, Colossus doesn’t get any lines. So whatever. Halle Berry decides to start acting like Storm in the hallway, and does a pretty good job. And Logan is actually in character—sit back and relax, but don’t get too comfy, because it doesn’t last. As a brief introduction to the characters, it works. All in all, not so bad, but definitely needed to be fleshed out.

I believe that The Danger Room sequence does the concept justice. From the first shots of it, from the hints at the warzone in the end of the film, we see that the X-Men are training hard for battle. Something we never saw them even discuss in previous films, but a huge aspect of the X-Men mythology. This only makes the "war" metaphor the franchise has carried thus far more immediate and appropriate. The X-Men certainly look like they're in danger. The scene does show us the characters' powers, but more importantly, it shows us characters using their powers more extensively and more creatively. We see how much the X-Men care about each other, and that they have learned to look out for each other as a team, with Colossus and Kitty defending Rogue and Bobby, respectively. We also see a bit of Bobby's cockiness showing up. The conflict between Storm and Logan is nice, and sets up the beginning of Wolverine's arc in this movie. He still doesn't take everything seriously, and he's still something of a loner. And Storm still isn't quite the warrior we know she's capable of (but they've begun developing her into that character). The Fastball special works well, showing that while Wolverine is a loner, he's not adverse to some assistance now. It's nice to see the Sentinel show up, and since we see it in what is essentially Days of Future Past, I can forgive this being it's only appearance. It would be difficult to make giant robots palpable in this film. Upon thinking about it, making The Danger Room a hologram and revealing it only at the end of the film does give the film's present day opening a nice little twist, and serve as a good introduction to the Danger Room itself. I have few issues with the performances in this scene, spoken or otherwise. They're easily on the level of anything the respective actors did in X-MEN and X2 with similar dialogue or scenes.

4. Scott Grieves – Jimmy Marsden, we hardly knew you. Powell’s score is really nifty again. I wish that cue was on the soundtrack. Anyway, this scene is brief, but it works. Scott misses Jean, and she’s somehow haunting him from beyond the grave. If only their connection was given more importance than “here’s how we can kill Scott off”.

A fantastic scene, if a short one. We see just how much Jean's death has affected Scott. To the point where he's lost interest in his regular activities. Is that how comic book Cycliops would react? Maybe not, but it is how a real person suffering severe depression at the loss of a loved one would. The realistic scene works, and seeing Jean "call" Scott, seeing their dependence on each other, is a nice touch. I believe the Scott/Jean sequences are given more importance than simply "Now we can kill Scott off". Look at how much resolve he shows, his desire to find her, to seek out the truth is clearly seen at the end of the sequence. It's not said, but it's shown, and that's good filmmaking.

5. Rogue and Bobby – Rogue’s angsting about her powers because…well, actually, I’m not sure why, because X2 definitely implied she’d be getting used to them and start being a full-fledged X-Man. Come to think of it, so did the Danger Room scene, oh, 90 seconds ago. I guess the semi-hug between Bobby and Kitty is the reason, and that works well enough, but since that subplot goes nowhere, it’s considerably less effective. But Rogue should be yelling at him about that, not being all passive-aggressive “oh I can’t touch you! but I wuv you! but you don’t deserve me! but I really wuv wuv you!”. Good acting from Anna, but not the character as she should be portrayed given her arc from the previous films.

Rogue just "getting used to" her powers is simply not realistic. There is development, but not really a clear arc for Rogue in X-MEN and X2, other than the fact that she finds a family with the X-Men, a friend in Logan, and a boyfriend and someone who cares about her regardless of her powers in Bobby. So, should she be living happily ever after in X3? Boring. The (what appears to be) self-hate she feels in this scene mirrors Angel's at the beginning. And it's a nice bit of introduction to the Bobby/Rogue/Kitty conflict.

6. Scott and Logan – And so it begins. Logan is assimilating Scott. Jimmy really sells Scott’s tortured soul, and Jackman does a really good job of playing Cyclops. And another awesome statement of the Phoenix theme. Once again, the scene is too short, but it isn’t a terrible problem. Yet. Here’s the deal: this is the last time we see Scott do anything important in the movie. And all he’s doing is walking down a hall. Mull that over. But we’ll cover that injustice when the time comes. For now…

The altercation between Scott and Wolverine in the hall is well done. Scott's anger feels real, and is not overdone. Logan isn't assimilating Scott. He's trying to be more sensitive...and not doing so well at it. He's still learning. Wolverine is becoming a more caring member of the X-Men, but it's pretty clear that he doesn't particularly want Scott's job. I don't understand people who think Wolverine is acting like Cyclops in this sequence. He makes it clear that he's still not entirely sure he wants to stick around. And the overture he makes to Scott re: Jean is completely in character for movie Wolverine after their moment at the end of X2. I find it absurd that you say this is the last time we see Scott do anything important in the movie. Do you not consider what is arguably the first truly romantic/passionate moment in the X-Men franchise between Scott and Jean "important"?

 

[The Guard]

7. Meet Beast – Hehe. He’s upside down. I love Kelsey Grammer as Beast. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the best thing about this movie by far. Such a perfect way to introduce him. I wonder why his secretary gets him after the meeting has started? Shouldn’t he already be there? In fact, shouldn’t she get him ahead of time? God, she’s an awful secretary. On to the meeting, where Bolivar Trask pretends that he’s gonna be an important character, but is really just a trivia question pasted onto a character who is nothing like the original trivia question. But whatever. They’ve been tracking Magneto, which kind of begins to sell him as an Osama-esque threat to national security. The scene-in-a-scene with Mystique doesn’t work. Why was it set up like that? And on that note, why is it noted that she was imitating Trask? Continuity would say that they should have noticed that Senator Kelly was, y’know, dead. The scene with Mystique is nice, but it needed to be it’s own scene. It’s silly that they’re sitting at a meeting watching this interrogation. That just wouldn’t happen. Hank’s reaction to the cure is really good. Josef Sommer kind of hams it up as the president—the “on principle” line is really overdelivered, but it’s still effective. And better than the real thing.

We see that there's a Department of Mutant Affairs before we're told that there is. It's a pretty good-sized building, so we see that the government is taking human/mutant-relations seriously. Nice touch, and it's shown to us, not told. Beast is introduced well, and his magazine shows us that mutation continues to be a hot-button issue. Bolivar Trask clearly is in a position of power regarding human/mutant relations, even if he's not a main character. Mystique is probably imitating Trask to get into areas where Kelly didn't have security clearance (remember how she was struck down in X2 when she tried to arrange a meeting with Magneto?). The mention of Magneto's actions is nice, and the line about mobile prisons is somewhat clever. It would have been nice to have seen how Mystique was captured, but the sequence with her in "captivity" is well done, and she has some nice action and character moments, as we learn her real name and something of her history. Her allegiance to Magneto is brought forth, which becomes important later on. Her powers are shown, and it serves as a solid re-introduction to Mystique as a character, reinforcing her hatred of humans.

8. Ethics class – Really hamfisted setup for a particularly uninspired “twist” at the end. I like the discussion of ethics, but I’d like it more if it tied into the Phoenix story like it really should have. I hate Dell product placement. But in seriousness, these ideas of power and responsibility needed to relate to Jean, and the writers dropped the ball.

How is it hamfisted? It's business as usual at the school, and that's nice to see. I really like Xavier's monologue, as it speaks to not only his motivations, but also to Magneto's and Jean's. And sets up the notion that perhaps he was wrong in terms of what he did to Jean's mind. The ideas of power and responsible use of power shown here DO relate to Jean. They also relate to what Xavier did to Jean, and to all mutants with great powers. It's quite a well written scene in terms of both dialogue and thematic importance.

9. Charles and Storm - This scene is a giant missed opportunity. What should have been a chance to flesh out Storm’s backstory and character just turns into mindnumbing exposition, and the ridiculous statement that Scott’s a “changed man”. Well, he is if you leave in his room by himself for however long it’s supposed to have been since X2 ended. Writing off the leader of the team like that? I have a feeling Tom Rothman wrote that line. It doesn’t work, it reeks of shoehorning Scott out of the story, and honestly it’s just bad writing. Oh, and there’s something Xavier’s not telling us. Zak Penn insists that’s not about the cure, which would be true, because Xavier doesn’t know about it yet. Otherwise, Hank wouldn’t have come all the way from Washington on his way to San Francisco to deliver that news in person. Oh, wait, that doesn’t make any sense…I thought Hank was a doctor? I guess he’s got some frequent flier miles saved up. Anyway, Penn says it’s a reference to Phoenix, but it doesn’t really make any sense. In fact, the entire exchange is stupid, and doesn’t move the story forward at all. It’s just words to give Halle something to do. It shouldn’t have been hard to put in a line, just a line, to give Halle more depth. If Storm was going to get a bigger role, there needed to be some meat added to it. Instead, they just blew up her role in X2, giving her roughly twice the screentime and halving the significance.

Every scene Storm's been in in this franchise has been a "missed opportunity" for her to drop an awkward "Hey, did you as an audience know that Africans used to worship me?" line. The place for it was in X-MEN. It's a little late to address it now and make it feel organic, and simply throwing it in there would be a little forced. Xavier still has a sense of humor. That's nice to see. I don't think there's anything mindnumbing about Xavier pointing out that he has to protect his students, and indicating that he sees Storm as someone who's grown beyond just being a teacher at his school. It's a fairly important plot point, foreshadowing quite a bit. We also get to see a lot of X-student activity in this scene, which draws us further into the X-Men's world.

10. The Cure – Here we go. More Kelsey is always good. The reunion of Storm and Hank works well, and feels natural. I like it; the film could use more moments like this. But the scene immediately devolves to the PowerPoint style of scripting that Kinberg and Penn seem to favor. Seriously, this scene goes from one talking point to the next like a flowchart, not natural conversation. It’s too fast, and it seems like they just can’t wait to get the exposition out of the way. I’d normally accept this, but it’s not like they’re making room for more interesting characterization, because as soon as the expositing is over, the scene ends. Logan’s back in character, which is good to see. If only he’d stay that way. I have a feeling some of these scenes were written before the Scott “parameters” were set.

That's quite a few assumptions to make about a scene.

11. Storm Reacts to the Cure – I realize it’s not technically a scene, but this deserves its own entry. This does not work. For one, Halle is speaking way too quickly, like she’s reading a cue card that Kelsey’s holding for her. Second, it doesn’t make any sense. She’s being offensive, she’s spewing vitriol that really has no relevance to the situation…it’s not even like she has a point. She’s just reiterating her stance without giving reasons. And she comes off like a *****. This is not Storm. Not good at all.
12. Announcing the Cure – the scene more or less plagiarizes Whedon’s scene from Astonishing X-Men #1, with the Alcatraz bit shoehorned in because Ratner thought it’d be cool. Anna’s reaction works. But wait—we’re back to Halle the über-*****. She pretends to apologize to Hank for being so insensitive, but then she freaks the hell crazy on Rogue not fifteen seconds later. Rogue needed to have something to say after Storm insists that nothing’s wrong with Rogue, though clearly it is. Of course, Rogue shouldn’t even be contemplating the cure, but I’m beginning to think by this point that no one involved in this movie watched X2.

Kelsey Grammer is fantastic in this scene. It's nice to see Wolverine still being inherently biased. The reactions from Logan, Storm and Xavier are well done. Storm's angry reaction feels very personal, if not terribly well-acted. The Cure being announced right then is a bit convenient, but it's not played as if it's right there on the TV. Storm's diatribe about cowardice is just borne of her personal feelings, gives her a definitive view on mutation for the first time in the series, and allows the audience to ask "Who would take the cure?" Rogue's reaction to the news is natural, Beast provides a calming, reasonable voice beyond "that's just wrong because!" and even though Storm continues with her thoughts on the matter, the writers make the issue of assimilation much more than just black and white, right and wrong, and that's a solid move.

13. The Church of Magneto – Oh man. The most rushed scene EVER. The talk of committees is pretty entertaining, and the overacting extras are hilarious. Oh, hey, Psylocke? Eh, she’s gone. Magneto! Yay Ian! He delivers his speech, which is really good. Except that he delivers half of it on the way up to the stage. And then he talks so fast that its over in seconds, and bam, he’s off stage again. It’s like Ratner told his actors to speak faster than they normally would just to get through shooting faster. I guess he wanted to party that night. The bit with Magneto’s camp tattoo finally gets the tone right, for the first time since Scott’s scenes. Why does Callisto have a menagerie of convenient powers? Oh well, at least Magneto’s not using Cerebro. Again.

It's a quick scene, but it works, and I question what else you wanted to see in it. We see mutants assembled for their cause, we see their reactions to the cure...the fear of extermination, and we see Magneto take advantage of it to raise an army. His speech makes perfect sense, and the sequence about the needle is classic. The scene serves several purposes beyond just showing mutant unrest. We see that Pyro has become Magneto's right hand man, we're introduced to Callisto, who becomes a fairly important part of Magneto's new Brotherhood. Again, it's a quick scene, but that's mostly down to efficient writing. There isn't a lot of wasted dialogue. Nor does there need to be.

14. Mystique on the truck – It’s fluff, but it’s funny fluff. It’s worth it to see a close up of someone telling the President to shut up. I like to pretend it’s Dubya in that cage. The girl talking about killing him is suitably creepy, and a nice callback to Mystique’s ****ed up sense of humor.

The scene shows us where Mystique is, and yes, it's fluff. But it does again underscore just how much Mystique hates humans and why. This will have it's payoff later on.

 

[The Guard]

15. Meet Jimmy – And now Beast is in San Francisco. At least we get to see Shoreh. Her skill is almost wasted on Kavita Rao, but hey, it’s Shoreh. Beast’s reaction to Jimmy’s powers are great. Third time the tone feels right for this film. Cameron Bright is kind of a bad actor, though. I still wish Rao and Beast talked a little more after the scene was over.

Beast being in San Francisco shouldn't be that big a deal. He's just doing his job, which is to find out about the cure. Dr. Rao is an interesting enough character. It's nice to see a human who doesn't just hate and fear mutants for their differences. Beast's reaction to what Jimmy can do is indeed great. And you have to feel for the kid, whether you think Cameron Bright is a good actor or not. He's essentially imprisoned because one group of people can't get along with another and their differences. It would have been nice to see Beast react a little to this...but Leech seems to be ok, if not entirely happy with his situation.

16. Alkali Lake I – Beautiful helicopter shot of Cyclops going to the lake. This is the kind of visual opulence I knew Ratner would bring. The scene starts off very well, as something eerie is plainly going on. Jimmy acts the hell out of it too. The scream sounds a little over-modulated, but it’s okay. And here is the travesty. That whirlpool. Every fanboy in the audience is on the edge of his seat, waiting to see Jean shoot out of the water in a brilliant display of…wait, what’s this? Angle on Scott…okay, well…what’s that light? Is that…aw, ****, it’s Jean. WTF? That’s it? That’s what I waited three years for? Let’s get something clear: the budget for this movie was INSANE. We needed more than a flashlight and a Saran wrap filter on the camera for ****ing PHOENIX RISING. But I could deal with just that. Instead, it gets worse. You see, for every second Scott is onscreen, Tom Rothman loses three cents, and we can’t have that. Jimmy and Famke act out the shock of the whole thing very well, and it’s nice to see them finally kiss. And she wants to see his eyes. Cool, an homage. They’ll have a romantic afternoon at the lake then go back to the mansion, but the ****’s gotta hit the fan at some point. But at least it…wait. That’s not how it happened in the comics. Why is she…what’s with her eyes? His skin is…a cut? A shock cut? WTF?

There are indeed some great shots of Alkali Lake and Scott headed there. You can feel his determination, and feel how he is drawn there. Marsden's acting is very good here, but his firing at the lake feels a little forced. I understand the story point, and I suppose Phoenix is drawing his power to awaken, but it's still a bit forced (the aftermath of it is well-acted, though). What happens to the lake is great. The effects are fantastic. And when Phoenix rises, you don't even really need to see her emerge...Scott's reactions are more than enough to convey the moment. Their reunion is touching, and for the first time, we see them really passionate. You can see how happy they are to be back together. Her desire for control is apparent when she asks him to take of his glasses (which we see grow into something else with Wolverine), and it's a great moment. It's not how it happened in the comics...but then...this isn't the comics. The kiss is great. What happens to Jean in that moment, the music...the camerawork and effects...is just plain eerie and dark...and works very well. I'm glad what happens to Scott isn't shown. It's best left to the imagination, and it makes what happens to Xavier less redundant.

17. Alkali Lake II – In a scene that’s more or less unnecessary, but allows us to see our stars running heroically, Xavier tells Logan and Storm to go to Alkali Lake. No ****? So they go. Another cool shot, more random words for Halle to say so that her mouth doesn’t get tired. “You don’t wanna be here”. “Do you?” Are you ****ting me? The movie nearly collapses on itself at this scene. Good thing it’s so damn short. The effects are really good, though, and at least the mood is right, if not the words. Or the situation. Or the fact that Scott will not be mentioned again in five minutes time. Even though he ostensibly died. They don’t even look for Scott. Just, oh, hey, Scott’s glasses. I’ll just pocket these, they’ll come in handy when I assimilate Cyclops later on. You see, it’s not Xavier this time around. It’s Locutus. That’s the plot of X4: Locutus impersonated Xavier and made crazy **** happen. No lie. Rothman loves the crossover potential.

I don't think it's an unneccessary scene at all. You see just how much what has happened hurts Xavier, and there's a definite sense of urgency. You also see just how much Storm and Wolverine care about Xavier, with them rushing to his aid. And the X-Jet is always cool. Storm's lines make no sense, and that's kinda lame, but her use of power is cool, the scene has an eerie feel to it, and the sequence itself really shows the power Phoenix posesses, even subconsciously. Wolverine finding Scott's glasses is a nice moment, and allows for us to be distracted with something interesting long enough for Storm to find Jean. It'd be nice to see Cyclops's death mentioned again, but there's not really much to say, especially since they're not sure he's dead.

18. Examining Jean – Exposition. Snore. A cocoon of telekinetic energy. That’s the only possible explanation. Yup. Whatever, Borg scum. Jean’s mutation is seated in her limbic system, and Xavier blocked them off until she could learn to control them. But Jean developed a split personality and zzzz….Sorry. It’s just so boring. Anyway, the name Phoenix comes out of nowhere because they figure at least one aspect of this story should be faithful to the source. Xavier is really creepy, but he kind of sells the dilemma he has. Until he tells Logan he doesn’t have to explain himself. You sorta do, Charles. But yeah…so far, the Phoenix saga is pretty disappointing. Singer pretty explicitly set up an evolution of Jean’s powers, and to drop that and say she was Phoenix all along seems like more work than is necessary. It works as an explanation, but he seems a little eleventh hour for my taste.

True, the exposition is a little wordy at first, but the explanation works just fine, whether it's the entire reason for Phoenix, or just part of it in tandem with X2. I don't find repressed personalities boring. Nor do I find the explanation of Dark Phoenix as a purely instinctual creature boring. Xavier's fear over what has been unleashed, and the reveal of what he has done is a great series of moments, as is Wolverine's reaction to these things. Singer set up Phoenix as an evolution of POWER. But power itself does not make people turn evil. The personality behind the power does. It makes perfect sense. Jean's power grew, but her "Phoenix" personality became the instinctual, almost subconscious use of power.

19. Angel’s Cure – Who? Oh, right, the kid with the wings. He’s kinda hot now. I wonder what’s gonna happen. Rao offhandedly mentions Hank’s “personal issues”. I would rather have seen Hank talk about his personal issues, but I’ll settle for characterization however I can get it at this point. Again, this is a well acted scene. Ben Foster does a good job, and for once Ratner’s breakneck pacing serves the scene, ratcheting up the tension until Angel breaks out of his bonds. The pose looks kind of dumb, but okay, I’ll bite. The way he runs is a little silly, too, but again, not the end of the world. For some reason, Ratner puts the camera right in Michael Murphy’s face. I know Murphy knows better than to look in the camera, so it’s gotta be a choice on Ratner’s part to have that angle. It’s really distracting though. The shots of Angel flying are great, and I love Jimmy looking out the window at it. The tone is spot on here. I feel like I’m watching the sequel to X2.

Oh come on. We saw Beast's "personal issues" about as clearly as possible in the sequence with Leech. Why do you need him to now say how he feels (in a scene he's not in)? We saw how he feels. Vividly. Angel rejecting the cure is a great scene. Incredibly relevant to the thematics of the movie and fantastically acted by Ben Foster. And Angel flying is great. As is the moment with Leech at the end of the scene. "Bridge to freedom". Heh.

20. Magneto Rescues Mystique – I like this scene. The effects are cool and shocking. Mystique killing the guard is kickass. I don’t like how the rest of the Brotherhood appears out of nowhere, though. It’s very Ed Wood. Mystique and Magneto have nice interaction. Multiple Man…oh, man. Eric Dane does so much with so little. Seriously, in about fifteen seconds he totally captures the character. In fact, it might be the most faithful translation in the film. As for Juggernaut…well, I guess it’s cool he got in. I wish he’d had some relation to Xavier, but as a mindless thug I guess it’s cool. And then Mystique takes the bullet for Magneto. Forgetting for the moment that Rebecca Romijn is naked, Powell’s score really kicks in. McKellen acts the scene really well, as does Romijn. It’s really sad. I probably would’ve lost the “she was so beautiful” line and held the shot of Mystique instead, but it’s effective as it is.

Magneto uses his power for much more than we've seen before. We see he's willing to simply slaughter now to get what he wants. Mystique continues to show her hatred for humans and her "talents". And we see that Magneto sent Mystique to find out about the cure. Mystique clearly knows her stuff, and is important to him. Magneto breaking out Multiple Man and Juggernaut is impressive, if the dialogue is a little cheesy. They have Mystique there...and it's a prison...why not have other mutants, too? What happens to the guard shows us how far gone Pyro is, what happens to Mystique is sad and fitting at the same time, and what Magneto does to her once she's human is a great moment, as is Pyro's reaction to it.

21. Hank Resigns – The president is on a slippery slope. Basically, this scene serves to get Hank back to the X-Men. Though I’m still trying to figure out how he’s already back in Washington. Unless it took Callisto a really long time to track down Mystique, in which case, she sucks.

Again, why is it a problem for Hank to be back in Washington? The way the scenes play out, he has plenty of time to have gotten to San Francisco and then back to Washington. This scene showcases the kind of conflict the government faces with mutant terrorists, and the way normal people still feel about mutants and their powers. Hank resigning makes sense, if it comes a little quickly. And who can argue with him going back to the X-Men?

22. Logan and Jean – I really like this scene. I even like that it’s Logan and not Scott, because Logan is IN CHARACTER. See, it’s amazing, Logan’s not half as annoying when he acts the way he’s supposed to. Anyway, the makeout session is maybe a bit superfluous, but there’s no denying these two have chemistry. There’s a reason this relationship moved to the center, and I honestly don’t have a problem with that, as long as Logan acts like Logan. The problem starts when he acts like Scott. But that’s for another day. Famke does a great job of acting the Phoenix part, but the scene doesn’t kick into high gear until Logan asks Jean about Scott. You can see the change in Jean’s eyes as Phoenix vanishes for a moment. The effects are great as Jean loses control. The writing is great, the cinematography is awesome, the acting is wonderful…I’ve said it a few times, but it’s worth repeating: the tone is appropriate. Especially Jean’s pleas for Logan to kill her. The rest of the movie needs to match this scene in tone, and then we’re getting somewhere.

Logan's concern for Jean is nice to see. The chemistry between them is definitely there, and Logan's temptation is palpable. The makeout sequence is not superfluous at all. It's clearly not just about making out. It's about Phoenix, the purely instincual creature...acting instictually and taking over. Reveling in her power over Wolverine, in her power, period. A very good scene, and a logical (and fairly gradual) escalation to Dark Phoenix. You can see her desire for control growing. And her fear over being controlled. Which sets up the entire rest of her story. I like that it's realizing she's lost Scott that makes Jean Grey go over the edge and abandon herself to Dark Phoenix.

 

[Boba_Fett_123]

So you honestly have no negative opinions about this movie at all?

How is it hamfisted?

"Here's a man who has no consciousness to speak of. What would the morality of the situation be if, oh, let's just say an EXTREMELY POWERFUL PSYCHIC, SUCH AS MYSELF were to TRANSFER HIS MIND into this guy's head. Y'know, just in case maybe I needed to do it."

I'm paraphrasing, but I'm sure you see my point. It's plainly setting up Xavier's fate, and it's not subtle at all. For someone who likes all the showing and not telling Ratner and company do in this movie, you sure eat up the exposition that sucks.

That's quite a few assumptions to make about a scene.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, as I made no assumptions about this scene at all. All my comments directly reflect what's on the film.

Beast being in San Francisco shouldn't be that big a deal. He's just doing his job, which is to find out about the cure. Dr. Rao is an interesting enough character. It's nice to see a human who doesn't just hate and fear mutants for their differences. Beast's reaction to what Jimmy can do is indeed great. And you have to feel for the kid, whether you think Cameron Bright is a good actor or not. He's essentially imprisoned because one group of people can't get along with another and their differences. It would have been nice to see Beast react a little to this...but Leech seems to be ok, if not entirely happy with his situation.

I don't have a problem with Beast being in San Francisco. I have a problem with the speed with which he got there.

And when Phoenix rises, you don't even really need to see her emerge...Scott's reactions are more than enough to convey the moment. Their reunion is touching, and for the first time, we see them really passionate. You can see how happy they are to be back together. Her desire for control is apparent when she asks him to take of his glasses (which we see grow into something else with Wolverine), and it's a great moment. It's not how it happened in the comics...but then...this isn't the comics. The kiss is great. What happens to Jean in that moment, the music...the camerawork and effects...is just plain eerie and dark...and works very well. I'm glad what happens to Scott isn't shown. It's best left to the imagination, and it makes what happens to Xavier less redundant.

There's no reason we couldn't have had both Phoenix rising and Scott reacting. In fact, it's kind of what I expected. I can't believe you accept it and apologize for it as it stands. Scott's expression is NOT enough; this is an iconic moment. The firebird was shown in X2. No excuse for excluding it.

This isn't the comics: I'll be the first person to say that. But Scott is written out with little explanation. That scene should not have played out the way it did, and wouldn't have if not for those damn "parameters" Fox set.

Oh come on. We saw Beast's "personal issues" about as clearly as possible in the sequence with Leech. Why do you need him to now say how he feels (in a scene he's not in)? We saw how he feels.

Like i said, the initial scene does a very good job. But BEAST should be addressing these issues, not Kavita, and certainly not in a scene the character isn't even in. If they were going to readdress the point, it should have been another character moment for Beast, not an unnecessary lead-in to an unrelated scene (though I do sort of like how Beast's personal issues reflect Angel's own). Still, Beast needed another scene to address those issues. One fleeting shot does not a character arc make, especially since we see no more of Beast's conflict after this.

The makeout sequence is not superfluous at all. It's clearly not just about making out. It's about Phoenix, the purely instincual creature...acting instictually and taking over. Reveling in her power over Wolverine, in her power, period.

I didn't say it was totally superfluous. I said it was "maybe a bit superfluous", and even then only in that it's pretty much eye candy. (Very, very good eye candy, though).

 

[The Guard]

26. The Funeral – Logan and Ororo rush into the living room, too late to save Xavier. And Logan cries like a baby. Or should I say like Scott? That smile was clearly Locutus entering Logan’s mind and allowing him to assimilate Scott. No question, it should have been Scott in this scene. It essentially is, except he’s being played by Hugh Jackman. Next: There’s really no other way to put this. Ororo’s eulogy is pretty good. But Halle delivers it really badly. She sounds like she’s reading a script. She doesn’t sound convincingly sad. Good thing Powell wrote the awesome cue in the background. Question, though: where did the huge ****ing memorial come from? And why are the X-Men stopping to have a fullblown funeral for Xavier, but not Scott? Not that I’m complaining, because anything to slow the pace down. But it doesn’t make logical sense to totally forget Jean and just have a funeral, even if it is very sad that Xavier died.
ADDENDUM: Moira MacTaggert came all the way from Scotland for this funeral. How much time is meant to have passed between Jean killing Xavier and the funeral? For all those people to come on a day’s notice makes little sense, so one would think a few days at least have past. But then it doesn’t make sense that the X-Men did nothing about Jean, Magneto, or the cure in those few days. I still prefer to think of the former, because at least it’s more forgivable in screenplay terms.

Ororo and Logan were never going to have the chance to save Xavier. They got blown out of the house, remember? Babies do not cry like that, and Logan crying is nothing new in this franchise. It's pretty touching to see how much he cared about Xavier, even with his doubts about him. Logan may be taking the role Scott "should have" had in this franchise, but it's in perfect character, considering how he's been developed in the movieverse. Storm's eulogy is well written, but I agree that it's not delivered so well. It's nice to see the effect Xavier's death has on the students and staff of the school. Why are the X-Men stopping to have a full blown funeral? What kind of question is that? It'd be one thing if Magneto was attacking Alcatraz that day, but he's not. So, with no detectable and traceable supervillain threats to combat, what should they do? Not honor their mentor? They're not psychics, remember? They can't exactly just up and "find" Magneto and Jean and...do god knows what. I don't think the X-Men's reaction to what Jean did was forgotten. It just happens a little later in the film. Taking time to regroup is not a mistake in the writing process. As for Moira attending, I think it's safe to assume that a few days have passed since Xavier's death. Most of the people at that funeral seem to be students. Moira's a close friend and colleague of Xavier's. I don't see the problem with her hopping on a jet a few days later. And come on...Xavier's school must have had a ****load of money to run it. I don't think it's farfetched at all to have a memorial in that span of time.

27. Skating on the Pond – Oh man, this scene. It starts out pretty well. There’s that clunky “you can walk through walls” line, but it’s forgivable. It’s a nice character moment for Kitty, and Ellen Page turns in a decent performance. Once they get outside, however, there’s a HUGE problem. They don’t kiss, and I agree, it’d make Bobby seem like a *****e if they did. But as it stands, Rogue massively misunderstands what’s going on, then goes and gets the cure because she wuvs Bobby so much. Not good. Taken on its own merits, however, this scene really works. Of course, this is the end of the subplot, and it loses points for that because, really, what was the point?

I like the scene. It relieves some of the tension, and shows us how the X-kids feel about Xavier. Rogue goes to get the cure because she thinks Bobby's cheating on her? That's one way to interpret it. Another is that the scene features Rogue seeing that she can never have that kind of "touching" relationship with someone because of her powers. And she decides she wants it. Not just because of Bobby, but for her. That's why Logan bothers with "Be sure it's what you want". Do you think the movie intends to show us that she ignores Logan's advice?

28. Rogue Moves Out – And in case you forgot, Anna Paquin’s in this movie. She plays Rogue just as well as ever, and it’s nice to see the interaction between Logan and Rogue, since they’ve been very close throughout the franchise. Logan is in character again, and that’s always nice. I don’t have a problem with this scene, as it does highlight Rogue’s indecisiveness. Unfortunately, the resolution to this subplot is less than satisfying.

I like this scene because it delivers the solution to the conflict the film introduces, and that solution is not black and white. "Decide whether or not you want to conform for yourself". Rogue's decision makes perfect sense, and this scene clearly indicates that she listens to Logan, and that she decides for herself, and is not just doing it for "some boy". There's even a hint that she wants to be closer to Logan in the scene, which is nice, considering their relationship thus far.

29. Magneto Talks to Jean – Magneto calls Jean the next stage in evolution. Except that’s not the explanation you went with, writer guys. Consistency. Please. Anyway, this scene works really well. It shows how Phoenix really doesn’t care what’s going on. Famke shines in one of the last scenes that showcases her, and indeed, the last time she really gets to talk in the whole movie. This is another scene where the tone is right. Afterward, Pyro and Callisto are afraid of Jean, which makes sense, except she hasn’t proven that she’s unstable to them. Erik regrets Xavier’s death, which is really a nice touch. Unfortunately, he loses all humanity from this point on, save for what Ian manages to salvage through his acting. One of the better scenes in the film, overall.

Wait, wait, wait. Just because Magneto says that when he met Jean he saw the next stage in human evolution (when he met Jean as a child) does not mean that Phoenix in the movie has nothing to do with mental blocks. Nor does it mean that the writers forgot what their explanation for Phoenix is. Magneto isn't neccessarily definitvely telling us why Phoenix is via the writers. He's talking about Phoenix not needing limitations. This scene isn't about what caused Phoenix, but rather, what Magneto wants Jean to realize about how he sees her and what he wants for her. That he will not limit her, or seek to control her. That she need not limit herself, and implying that Xavier did. That causes Jean to trust him, and stay with him. And she tests him...seeing if he will limit her. Through her testing of him, we get to see just how afraid he is of the cure, which is an important motivation in his march on Alcatraz. And then we see him reinforce that he doesn't want to limit her. Callisto is afraid of Jean for obvious reasons...she was there when Jean went berserk. Pyro simply doesn't trust her, as Jean used to be a member of the X-Men. It's nice to see once again how far gone Pyro has turned to the dark side, and how much of that is base arrogance...and it's a great moment when Magneto smacks him down and reveals how he felt about Xavier.

30. Close the School? – I hate this scene. I’ll just get that out of the way right now. After Ororo gave the whole damn eulogy about keeping up Xavier’s dream, Ororo and Hank want to just close up shop? Oh, and Angel shows up, continuing his arc. Ororo gets to take a stand as a leader, in what I think is the only character moment that has really worked for her so far. We needed to see more of Angel in this scene, but what we get works. Oh, and Colossus gets to speak. He says nothing of consequence and is reduced to a visual gag, but hey, at least it’s a line. Anyway, Rogue’s gone and Bobby’s worried. The whole scene moves too quickly, but it gets the job done. But if the contemplation of closing the school was going to be dealt with in such an offhand manner, it shouldn’t have been brought up at all. That time could’ve been used to develop Storm and Angel a little more.

Realistically, what to do about the school is a concern. Xavier was the driving force behind it. The scene does come across as a little forced and a little rushed, but it's well acted, and a good story point. It could have been executed a little better. I don't think Ororo ever wants to close the school...Hank just thinks it might have to happen. Hank's little smile at the end of the scene indicates to me that he knew Ororo would step up and take over, and might have just been playing Devil's Advocate.

31. Logan at the Grave – Jean haunts Logan at Xavier’s grave. This works very well, though it should be Scott. I think this is where Logan stops being Logan for the rest of the film. It’s a nice, unsettling scene. Up in Logan’s room, Storm confronts Logan. She takes a very militant stance toward Jean, believing that the Jean they know is gone. This would work, if Jean and Storm had any interaction in this film at all. Instead, Storm comes off like a ***** again. This scene works very well in isolation, but there’s no setup, and no payoff.

The haunting is well done, with Logan paying his respects to Xavier. Jean is clearly searching for an anchor, drawing Logan to her. Logan doesn't stop being Logan at all in this sequence. I like the scene between Logan and Storm because it shows a stronger Storm, and it shows that Logan is still not quite a team player and more concerned with his personal issues than the X-Men's, but it also sets up the "is Jean gone or not?" conflict in the audience's mind. Storm has every right to believe Jean is gone after what happened to Scott and Xavier. There's a great moment here, with Logan unable to admit he loves Jean, and Storm telling him that she knows. There's absolutely a payoff, right before the X-men go to war, and when Logan has to kill Jean at the end of the film.

32. The Cure Clinic – Nice character moment between Bobby and John. I like it a lot. Maybe we should’ve seen Rogue here, though. Magneto delivers a threat that is really cool, because it sells him as a threat. It kind of screams “exposition” in the delivery, but Ian makes it work. The President decides to weaponize the cure pretty casually, but I guess he’s justified at this point. R. Lee Ermey’s cameo makes me smile, even if it is blatant exposition, delivered in a voiceover, no less. We finally get a shot of Rogue, and it’s actually pretty effective. When Ratner gets something right, he gets it right.

Pyro shows even more that he's developing into a villain, now willing to harm innocents. I would have liked to have seen Bobby not pursue Pyro, and instead to use his powers to douse the fire, but that might have been pretty expensive to show. I don't really like Magneto's speech past the "So long as the cure exists" line. It doesn't feel like Magneto in some ways. Trask and The President's reaction is nice to see. The President pretty much has no choice. Magneto has become a full fledged terrorist. Could have done without R. Lee Ermey. The moment with Rogue is well done. There's still a bit of doubt in her mind.

33. Fight in the Woods – Well, it’s Logan. He’s the best there is at what he does, but what he does isn’t very nice. We know. It works very well as an action scene, and it comes at the right time in the film, but it doesn’t mean that he’s not taking over Scott’s role. Magneto’s speech is really excellent, and Ian gives an impassioned delivery. You can really tell he cares very much about the message of this film, and it shows in his performance. The shot of Jean sensing Logan is beautiful, but the cue from Powell’s score is different (and worse) than the one on the soundtrack. It ends in a transition to a minor key, as opposed to a triumphant statement of Jean’s theme. Magneto talks to Logan, who says “I came for Jean” very much like I imagine Scott would have. I like the Logan Jean relationship. I’m in favor of it. But Logan needs to ACT LIKE LOGAN for that to work. Instead, he’s acting like Scott. Oh, and Jean could’ve had some lines here? Maybe? Whatever.

This "Logan acting like Scott" thing is absurd, especially in this scene. For two X-Men films, Logan has cared about Jean Grey. Why now is it suddenly wrong to have him try to help her, to still care about her? Yes, it's something Scott would say, but it's also something Logan would say. Logan acts like he's been developed as a character, as someone who still sees some good in his friend. Would Scott have gone after Jean? Probably. But Scott would have taken the X-Men and gone after Jean. Logan goes alone. I don't see Scott at all. Even his dialogue is a bit more abrasive than Scott's would have been. "You stood there and let him die", and making demands of Magneto. You simply cannot ignore all the Logan-centric stuff in this scene because of a few things Scott might have done.

34. Mystique Betrays Magneto – Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Man, Brett, that’s deep. The president did not need to say this. And again, Mystique’s screentime is minimized to a surveillance TV. Perhaps we could have actually SEEN her betray Magneto, instead of getting a corny line about it. The gag with Multiple Man works pretty well, but again, they should be much angrier at Mystique than they are, as it pretty much seems like she tricked them on purpose. This could’ve been a great character moment for her, but Kinberg and Penn are too busy moving on to the climax. Already. The scene with Magneto at the end is unnecessary, but Juggernaut gets a cute line, which I expect is why it was included.

Agree on most of this. The President's line isn't really bad...but it is a cliche, and it's poorly delivered. I don't know that seeing Mystique in human form any more than we already have would have been the right move. Multiple Man's moment is used to great effect. They might not know Mystique betrayed them. After all, she did tell them where Magneto was, and it's unlikely she'd have any real contact with him, or know about his plans to use Multiple Man. The President does seem pretty pissed at the end of the scene.

35. Back at the Mansion – Logan reiterates what we already know. Then they suit up, and Jackman goes into full Cyclops mode. We know there is an alternate version of this scene, one that works better. But this one focuses on “Wolverine” more. Except that he’s not acting like Wolverine anymore, he’s acting like Cyclops. Seriously, give this guy a haircut and slap a visor on him. And Storm makes *****y comments to Logan. There needed to be a contrast to this side of her character, or else she’s just plain unlikable. I like the shots of the kids on the jet. It’s like something Singer would’ve done.

Someone has to tell the X-Men what Magneto's up to. "Follow me" won't work real well, and would make a rushed scene even more rushed, wouldn't it? The scene is a little rushed to begin with, but I can't think of what else could go here once the pacing gets tense and urgent as it has. As they suit up, Wolverine may be taking on Scott's role in the scene, but in evaluating this sequence, you cannot ignore that this is what has been developed over three films. Wolverine going from a loner who doesn't care about Xavier's dream to a leader who does. It works in that context. "They're ready" is a bit forced, but they clearly are. Storm continues to be strong and definitive, not just a *****. She knows what is going to have to be done, and it foreshadows Logan having to do it. The shots of the X-Men on the jet are fantastic, especially of Beast. You can see he really wishes it hadn't come to this, sending young people into battle over what the adults are doing to each other.

36. The Golden Gate Bridge – Okay, this makes no sense. The jet flies over mountains that I’m pretty sure are located closer to San Francisco than Salem Center. But Magneto was at the Golden Gate Bridge when the X-Men LEFT Salem Center. And he’s just now getting to moving it? Brett moved the climax to Alcatraz, but evidently forgot the logic of getting these characters ACROSS THE COUNTRY in between scenes that are evidently meant to be taking place concurrently. The timeline of this sequence is all kinds of screwed. Anyway, this is obviously a set piece, and it’s a very good one at that. This is the kind of visual grandeur that Singer always seemed to hold back, and it’s scenes like this that make me think Ratner did an okay job, all things considered. This is definitely one that works, if you throw logic out the window. Don’t think about though, because it doesn’t make any sense.

I don't see why logic has to be thrown out the window to enjoy this scene. Magneto wasn't at the bridge when the X-Men left, he was at the harbor. He has an entire Brotherhood to get to and across the bridge, which is some distance away. There's absolutely nothing to suggest Magneto was ever on the East Coast with the Brotherhood, so him moving them isn't that big a deal, or a plot hole. We don't know how long it took Logan to get back to the mansion, but since he had to wake up, and the President had time to send in his men, odds are it took a while. We can assume he traveled back to Westchester while Magneto and the Brotherhood were headed to San Francisco. The bridge sequence is great on many levels. It's wonderful to see Magneto marching with his Brotherhood. The shot with Leech seeing the bridge he's seen every day moving toward Alcatraz is well done. "Charles always wanted to build bridges" has a double meaning, and a pretty sick meaning to it.

 

[The Guard]

37. Storming the Island – Please keep in mind that the Brotherhood arrived in late afternoon, at best. It’s nighttime now, because Brett thought that’d look cooler. Doesn’t work. We know at least one scene was cut, but I think there were more. I like Pyro’s little war cry at the beginning. Magneto’s plan doesn’t make too much sense, although in fairness he had no way of knowing that the cure had been weaponized on a large scale, and so I guess sending in a bunch of pawns is as good a way as any of learning that. Sucks to be them, though. The big problem here is that Jean doesn’t work as a henchman. Her power is limitless, or so we’re meant to believe, but she just stands around and lets everyone else do their work. Phoenix CANNOT be reduced to a member of the Brotherhood, because she’s just too powerful for that.

Do cars always have their headlights on in the late afternoon? Is the sun generally setting in the late afternoon? It's clearly dusk when The Brotherhood is on the bridge. Does it turn into night quickly? Yes it does, but the sun was setting, it was clearly getting darker. I can let it slide. Magneto's plan makes perfect sense. He's a master of magnetism, and he's sending dozens of superpowered mutants against an Army of ordinary humans. Magneto is clearly willing to sacrifice whoever he has to in his war. Nice touch. The plastic MIRVs work well, as does Magneto's solution to them. Arclight uses her shockwaves to great effect, and the tide of the battle turns in a believeable way. Superpowered mutants VS. unarmed soldiers? Of course it's going to be a slaughter. I love how the X-Men arrive to see just how bad things are below. And I like how Warren Worthington and Dr. Rao care about Leech's safety. I'm not sure if using Jean as a soldier would have worked. Then you start to wonder why she's not just wiping out everyone, which of course we see later. She's kind of on the fence during the battle, uncaring about either side, really.

38. The Grand Entrance – The X-Men arrive on the island. This scene is really neat. I like the way they each make their entrance, and it works to show the X-Men as a team, something the first two films kind of lacked (though X1 had it with the arrival at the Statue of Liberty). This scene has the epic feel that the rest of this sequence is lacking.

The X-Men's arrival and entrance is very well done. This is the kind of presence a full fledged X-Men team should have. Magneto almost looks like he doesn't believe they've arrived. And it certainly registers with Jean that they've arrived. Wolverine takes on the leadership role he's been denying for two films. It's nice to see the X-Men in battle formation, and Magneto's line about "traitors to their own cause" is delivered very well.

I think Storm was way too angry in this film. Her arc with Nightcrawler in X2 led to her becoming a more balanced person, more faithful and less hateful.

There's not really an actual "arc" to Storm in X2. It's set up but there's not really any payoff. She never learns not to just be angry about being persecuted in X2, so she doesn't really develop in that regard. It was actually Nightcrawler who needed to have faith in himself. Storm simply learned...to...uh...nothing. Realistically, what does she learn in X2? To work with others? She already knew that in X-MEN and X2. And her approaching Nightcrawler in X2 shows that she's not afraid of people who are different, nor does she have absolutely no faith in anyone but herself.

In TLS, it's all fanaticism and no substance. She yells at everyone, she has no faith in Jean, who should be her friend. I like Storm: I like militant Storm: but it's not the only side to her character, and the Storm we get is a one dimensional cutout of the character in the books.

Storm is given the "voice" of mutants who feel repressed and wrongly hated for being different in the film. Since we can't see the dozens of mutants say "there's nothing wrong with us" dozens of times, the writers give a very good point to Storm. Why should Jean be her friend? If your friend did something horrible, would you just "be their friend"? If people don't react that way to their friends in the REAL WORLD, then why should Storm?

39. Alcatraz I – So after “hold this line”, then. We finally get to see some all-out action with the X-Men, and it’s a good thing. The climax is pretty much the best part of this movie. I don’t like that Jean is forgotten about the way she is, but chalk that off to the inability to give her something to do within the plot. She still doesn’t work as an X-Man. Wolverine has a cute one-liner which, if nothing else, tells us this is, indeed, a Ratner film. To be fair, Singer had his share of one-liners in his films, and it gets a chuckle, so it’s cool. Kitty chases after Juggernaut, and right, “he’s the Juggernaut, *****”. Psylocke and Arclight, still nameless, kidnap Worthington, and Quill kills Kavita in cold blood. Shoreh was definitely wasted. Beast quotes Churchill, and simultaneously Kelsey totally channels the character. Perfect casting. Cameron Bright is still a really bad actor when Kitty goes to rescue him, and Juggernaut gets outsmarted. Did Kitty really have to say ********? It felt unnecessary to me, and it wasn’t even funny like Juggernaut ***** was. I like Ken Leung’s delivery of “do we look like we need your help?” They push Worthington off the roof, and—Angel! He must have stowed away with the X-Men. Wish we would’ve seen that, but that’s okay. What is NECESSARY is a scene, just a few words, between father and son. We don’t get that, and it hurts the film.
The battle itself is very well done. Feels very brutal and urgent. Wolverine and Beast show their stuff, as does Storm. It's a shame Storm's tidal wave was cut, but her altercation with Callisto is still pretty good, and showcases the take-no-prisoners "warrior" version of Storm people have wanted to see for so long. The one-liners work, aren't too numerous, and Magneto's true objectives become clear. He just wants the cure done away with, regardless of what has to be done to accomplish this. Juggernaut's moment is very well done, and showcases quite a bit of power. The Shadowcat/Juggernaut chase is great, as is what happens to Juggernaut. Clever bit of conflict and resolution there. Warren coming out of nowhere doesn't really feel cheap, but I agree that it would have been nice to have some kind of resolution between him and his father. Something else. Might have come across as a bit cheesy, but it would have been nice.

40. Alcatraz II – Magneto and Pyro team up and hurl flaming cars. It’s a cool idea, and again, always nice to see the mutants using their powers together. Here’s some controversy- the X-men spot a few extra cure darts and decide they have to use them on Magneto. There’s a callback to Logan and Storm’s Danger Room confrontation that’s pretty campy and clichéd. Bobby and John square off, but it’s not that exciting. It’s actually staged a lot like the Harry/Voldemort fight in Goblet of Fire, which isn’t a complement. There’s nothing visually interesting. Bobby finally ices up, but it’s so anticlimactic it doesn’t really make an impact. Magneto stops Wolverine, but Beast leaps behind him (the effect looks sorta weird here) and Powell’s “cured” motif recurs. Ian does a good job here, but I wish that we’d had a little more conflict among the X-Men using the cure as a weapon, which they should REALLY be against.

Magneto working together with Pyro is great, showing just how far gone he is that he believes he can end the conflict between humans and mutants via violence. The encounter between Iceman and Pyro is fantastic (nothing visually interesting?), as is the payoff. Bobby icing up as a defensive measure when his former friend is willing to kill him to put out Pyro's flame makes perfect sense. How is it anticlimactic? And then the teamwork comes into play, albeit a little cheesily, I'll agree, along with the Fastball Special paying off...and we get a great moment as Magneto is "cured", becoming what he hates the most. We also get to see just how disgusted Beast is that he forced the cure on another mutant. The X-Men using the cure as a weapon is a clear case of "choosing the lesser evil", and Beast represents that approach. I think the conflict here is obvious...there shouldn't have to be a discussion about it onscreen, about it's moral implications, etc.

41. Phoenix Rises – Cyclops tells Jean it’s over. But then all the soldiers ever fire on Jean, and she gets hella pissed (but still no flame). Cyclops yells really loud, but it doesn’t stop her from ripping everyone to shreds. I like this scene, I like the extended version better, but hey, what we got is still pretty cool. Everyone runs away, because Cyclops is the only one who can stop her. Magneto asks the camera what he’s done—seriously, Brett, stop pointing the camera right at people’s faces!! Cyclops calls out to Jean and starts a heroic march up to her, but she rips him apart. It’s an emotional scene, helped tremendously by Powell’s score, where the Phoenix theme takes off with female choirs shrieking in Sanskrit and plenty of war drums and orchestra hits. It’s epic, and a clear indication there should’ve been more focus on Phoenix in the movie. This feels kind of empty. Jean’s a powerful threat, but there’s no humanity because no one’s seen Jean except Logan/Cyclops. Jean wants to be saved, but Cyclops loves her. So much that he stabs her, to free her. Jean’s pretty happy about that, and then she dies. Cool effect of the water collapsing. Cyclops yells up at the heavens, sad that Jean is dead. Again.

The Army attacks Jean, and we finally see her rage released in all it's glory. The destruction is breathtaking and massive, and her powers are fantastic. And whether you like the fact that Wolverine has taken over Scott's role or not, you have to admire the sacrifice he makes for Jean and the others. He's willing to suffer greatly, and possibly die, just to see if there's a chance Jean is still there. Emotional, uber-dramatic stuff, with fantastic effects. Most of it works very well. Should have been Cyclops, but it wasn't, and frankly, the way Wolverine has to stop her is a bit more interesting (and less cliche) than how Cyclops would have.

42. Finale – Two tombstones. They’re pretty ugly and plain. At least they bothered to make one for Scott (they still haven’t looked for a body or anything, mind. I guess they’re confused since Cyclops is still walking around the mansion, just with muttonchops). Rogue tells Bobby that she got cured. It’s not what he wanted, but it is what she wanted. And now she can wuv wuv him all night long! Storm welcomes Leech to the school. Hope he doesn’t inadvertently kill anyone by turning off their powers. Hank is appointed as an ambassador the UN, which doesn’t make too much sense. And what is with major plot points happening on TV in this movie? Then Cyclops goes out and looks wistfully into the sky as Powell’s score blares. God, I hope that’s not the end. Oh, no, Angel’s theme. And there he is, flying over the GG bridge as it’s rebuilt. Nice scene. Pan down to a park. Erik plays chess all by himself, and tries to move a chess piece with his powers. It works. Incidentally, watching this with headphones, I can hear one particular extra telling a boy to “watch your little sister”. Makes me wish I had surround sound, and not my laptop, just to see what other sounds I’m missing.

The resolution scenes are there, with Rogue having decided to be cured, which, whether you like it or not, is a well-made scene. The score at the end of the film, in particular, is amazing. The end sequences are nice, if a little cheesy in places. While X3 does lacks some of the extended character resolution found at the end of X2 like the X-Men confronting the President, and Wolverine/Scott, it does show, rather than tell, what has happened, and the meaning of the end sequences are clear and quite powerful...the sacrifices made by Scott, Jean and Xavier will not be forgotten by the younger X-students and their mentors, the school will go on, and the world still faces the same problems it did before, but the X-Men are a force to be reckoned with. The music in the final scenes is great. If this is the end of the trilogy, it's a fairly satisfying one, providing some hope for the future in the face of tragic losses. And to end the X-Men's part in the trilogy on the house that Xavier built is an inspiring shot. The stuff in San Francisco is nice, particularly the little hint that the cure is not permanent. And the teaser at the end with Xavier and Moira sets up some interesting possibilities for a possible X4, and if nothing else, we can rest easy (or not so easily) knowing that Xavier is still around to affect mutant affairs.

Okay, so that’s the movie. As a whole, I think it works. It’s got great acting from everyone involved, even the bit players. I think that the major faults lie in the writing, even more than the directing. Occasionally Brett makes some mistakes, but he more than makes up for it most of the time. The writing, however, is lazy, hackneyed, and often just plain bad. Other times it’s right on the nose, but it’s too hit and miss, honestly. The movie never reaches the epic heights that we were promised, and that’s a little bit of a letdown for sure.

Simply calling the writing "lazy" is inaccurate. The writers take what is often the same approach the mythos that the previous writers did. What the writing is...is somewhat inconstent. Hackneyed...a little, every so often, but there are really only about four or five "moments" or lines that really feel like something we've seen before, or something really cheesy and obvious.

 

[The Guard]

The Phoenix story is largely neglected: it really seems like we just got the Cliffs Notes version. There are many missed opportunities for several characters, especially Jean and Storm. A lot of times there’s a major emotional disconnect, as Jean only ever speaks to Scott, Logan, Xavier, and Magneto throughout the entire film. She’s more important than that, and deserves more than that. Avi Arad thinks that Phoenix couldn’t sustain an entire film. I heavily disagree: more on that in a future fan fic, more than likely. Honestly, I think this film should have been left to either the cure or Phoenix, but not both. They’re never efficiently juggled, and I feel like the Phoenix Rising sequence at the end is simply tacked on because they needed to conclude that plot.

Perhaps The Phoenix Saga could sustain an entire film, but what about the rest of the mythos? Should the writers forget about the conflict between humans and mutants that was set up in X-MEN and X2? Should Phoenix suddenly become the conflict? Even X2 wasn't all about "God Loves Man Kills" storyline. There were other characters involved, other character development, other arcs in the story. The Phoenix story wasn't "neglected" at all, it was altered, downplayed and compressed to be more realistic in scale and impact, and to fit in a two hour movie (Just like "God Loves, Man Kills" was in X2, and how Batman's training was simplified in BATMAN BEGINS). Both previous X-films also had "many missed opportunities" for characters and a bunch of underdeveloped ones, so if that's a strike against X3, it's also consistent with the previous films. Jean never had a relationship developed with Storm in X-MEN, so why should there be a touching one now? Storm's feelings on Jean ARE explored, however. The whole "she's more important than that, so why isn't she featued more" doesn't make a whole olot of sense. Yes, in the comics, Jean Grey gets her own arcs, and a lot of focus, but in a movie that has to tie up a lot of story points that X-MEN and X2 began, there simply isn't time. Making her part of the cure plot works well, and never feels too awkward to me, as the cure also ties into the "power and control" part of her story arc. Dark Phoenix rises at the end of the movie because it's the most destructive moment int he film, the most emotional, and it's been built up for an entire movie. It's not just "tacked on". Her arc has to be resolved. It won't be resolved if she just stands there when Logan says "It's over" and doesn't go berserk.

While the film does have several emotionally moving scenes, too many of the scenes rely on the previous films, with not enough within THIS film to really make them work.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Angel/Warren's interactions work on the basis of this film alone. Beast's moments work by themselves. So does anything between Storm and Wolverine regarding Jean Grey, or Xavier and Wolverine's conflicts. So does Wolverine and Rogue's talk. So do Magneto's moments. Those scenes come right out of the moments introduced in THIS film, not just things that are left over in X-MEN and X2. Of course some of the things in the movie (Bobby and Pyro's rivalry, Rogue and Bobby's inability to touch) rely on things X-MEN and X2 set up to work...this is the third film in a trilogy. Cyclops/Jean's romantic moment relies on the setup in X-MEN and X2, for instance, as do some aspects of Logan/Jean's interactions. But that's hardly a bad thing, for a movie to build on what came before. I'd like to know what scenes you think "rely" on X-MEN and X2 to work.

There’s a little leeway because it’s the third film in a trilogy, but not that much. The pace is too fast, and there’s no denying it.

I still don't think that the pacing of scenes is the problem. The length of the movie is. The pacing of emotional scenes is fine. The issue as I see it is...there aren't enough of the emotional scenes and developmental scenes to satifsy fans (Not that there were in X-MEN or X2, really), and the movie itself isn't along enough to allow for more of them.

Ultimately, we all know that this movie was made by the studio, and so there’s only so much that could have been done.

Of course the movie's production was controlled by the studio, who puts up the money to make the film (So were X-MEN and X2). But the scenes themselves are down to the writers and the director. The only thing you can really possibly blame FOX for is the length of the film, the decision to downplay the Phoenix Saga, and the fate of Cyclops. Because you can't whine about the enormous budget they gave X3, or the way they allowed more comic book source material to be brought into the movie.

Considering the circumstances, it’s a good movie. It’s not as good as X2. I think it is about on par with X-Men, however. I’m not going to compare it to Superman Returns, because they aren’t similar films at all, and there’s no fair way to make that comparison. Is it a worthy end to the trilogy? Yes and no. It does end all the relevant character arcs, though some (ROGUE) are ended in less than satisfying ways. While subtext in a film isn’t bad, I feel like too many aspects of the cure plot were left to viewer to fill in. There should have been much more sociopolitical allegory in this film, but instead we’re given a starting point, some token (poorly acted) debate, and then thrust into the action.

X3 is a fantastic movie, if an imperfect or incomplete one. It's a step away from being great, but it goes there several times during the course of the film. It's got moments that just beat the living hell out of many other comic book films, and much more depth and food for thought than the average film has, period. I honestly have no idea why you can't find the sociopolitical allegory in the film. It's right there, and there's even a bit more than was found in X-MEN and X2 if you really think about it. X-MEN and X2 presented a social issue, bigotry and intolerance, and X3 got to the crux of it, explored it a little deeper, and showed us more varieties of it.

The fact of the matter is, the film feels like two separate movies spliced together. Each plot is strong enough to sustain its own film, and I feel like there needed to be a choice made. It’s not a terrible film. There are many mistakes, but there’s also a lot to like. It trumps both previous films on action, hands down. And the showdown at Jean’s house is probably one of the best scenes in the trilogy. There’s no denying that Ratner has a better visual sense than Singer, although I might be more ready to attribute that to cinematographer Dante Spinotti. It’s not a masterpiece of cinema, but neither is X2. It’s a competent comic book film, certainly better than Batman and Robin, Daredevil, and any number of others. It may be lacking a bit in emotion overall, but several of the scenes are quite moving.

Didn't X2 feel like two seperate movies, too, by that logic? Just because Weapon X storyline was put into God Loves Man Kills doesn't mean it felt any less "forced" or contrived. X3 does something similar with The Cure and Dark Phoenix's stories.

In the end, it’s a film with a lot of minor issues, but few fundamental flaws. It’s incredibly annoying that Halle still has nothing to do. It’s clear that no one knows what to do with Storm, and she got the screentime simply because she’s Halle Berry. This character CAN be done justice, but no one seems to want to be bothered.

What exactly is doing Storm justice? A line about how she used to be worshipped as a goddess? Halle/Storm absolutely had stuff to do, and in a film that was even more crowded than X2 was. She clearly had a leadership role, she was given several impressive action and power usage scenes, she got to take over the school itself from Xavier, she delivered the eulogy, and she was given the voice of one of the very important "sides" of the cure debate. Would it have been nice to have seen her try to bring Jean back at her house or something? Yes, but some of you act like they didn't get anything right about Storm at all, and continue to make these absurd statements that she has no importance to the film and has "nothing to do".

Jackman is still very good, but the writers essentially turn him into Cyclops for the last act. Of course, that’s because it should be Cyclops, but Wolverine is more marketable. That’s inexcusable, and this isn’t a fan-specific issue, either: it’s incongruous with the first two films. The rest of the characters are good, even those who don’t have too much time to shine.

It's not incongruous with the first two films at all. Wolverine was clearly being developed into a leader who believed in Xavier's dream in X-MEN and X2. X3 completes that character arc.

All things considered, it’s slightly above average. I hate rating films, but I figure it’s a good way to cap this off. I’ll give my score on a normal letter scale. X-Men: The Last Stand gets a B- from me. To put that in perspective, X-Men gets a B+, and X2 gets an A. It’s not awful. It does everything well, but not as well as the A movie (or, for that matter, the B+ movie). A B- is still above average, though, which I do believe this film is. It could and should have been a hell of a lot worse. This is getting sort of long winded now, so that’ll just be the end. But hopefully this makes my views a lot clearer, since I know I’ve confused myself as far as my opinions on this movie are concerned. Take it for what it’s worth, and I look forward to hearing your takes as well.

I give it a B+. It has too many good and great moments to be anywhere close to a "C", and I refuse to condemn it for having the same "problems" that almost any movie I've ever seen (Even really good ones) has had. This film kicks the living crap out of most movies on so many levels, and that includes most action movies and most comic book movies. I didn't judge X-MEN and X2 on how close they got to the comics, so I don't judge X3 on it, either. Like the first two X-Men films, X3 remains relevant, powerful, and a hell of a lot of fun with enough ties to the comic source material to be a recognizeable and cherished version of the X-Men.

 

[gambitfire]

I agree with everything... let me just give you the 2% I don't...


Haha. No. Nonononono. I'd love to agree but that was... corny. "I'm way too busy kicking butt! I'm the Beast, b¡tch!" And it's constantly like that. Smart phrases by the heroes. Kitty's "d¡ckhead", Wolverine's "grow those back", Storm's 'macho/chulo' expressions, Iceman's "you shouldn't have left" Colossus'... oh wait. He's not in the movie. I think. I dunno. Wouldn't it be more climatic the 'baddies' are winning? For a change? Once again it's 'go go Power Rangers'. I'm really tired of always watching there's way too much evidence of the goodies 'winning'.

Oh and please explain me with what you mean by Ratner has better visual qualities than Singer? I hardly agree with that.

LOL soo true.

 

[gambitfire]

Beast said things like that all the time in TAS. It really worked for me. As for Ratner's visual qualities:

1. There are more colors in this film than shades of blue and brown, which is refreshing.
2. The helicopter shot over Alkali Lake, Jean looking out into the forest, the X-Men lined up at Alcatraz, Magneto moving the bridge--to me, there is more dynamism to Ratner's shots than Singer's, but that's just me. X3 is, IMO, more visually exciting than the other two: the camera has more life, everything is bigger. I feel like I'm watching superheroes on the big screen, whereas the first two, visually, feel more like "Heroes" on NBC right now. Of course, that's a double-edge sword, but on a solely visual sense Ratner wins.

Well he had a lot more money and believe me that helps out with something as seemingly silly as where you put the camera.

Besides last i checked i think this was mostly the cinematographers job, with the incorporation of the Directors' vision.

So don't give Ratner all his credits yet.



Singer just had a mood and while it seemed bleek and cold it worked.

I'm sure this would of changed with the introduction of Phoenix considering the brightness to this character.

Singer is capable of that and more look at SR.

IMO it was Visually stunning.

 

[04nbod]

moments in SR were beutiful but i thought some of the shots of superman during the plane sequence were bad. Routh's expressions were odd- he couldn't do effort

 

[gambitfire]

wasn't that CG?



unless you mean in the plane or something.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well he had a lot more money and believe me that helps out with something as seemingly silly as where you put the camera.

Besides last i checked i think this was mostly the cinematographers job, with the incorporation of the Directors' vision.

So don't give Ratner all his credits yet.



Singer just had a mood and while it seemed bleek and cold it worked.

I'm sure this would of changed with the introduction of Phoenix considering the brightness to this character.

Singer is capable of that and more look at SR.

IMO it was Visually stunning.

SR was visually very stylish but it was also very cold and lacking colour. The FOS looks so bleak and soulless, i would have liked it to be a little more magical and crystalline. The rock of New Krypton was black as hell.

Singer does have a tendency to favour dark colours and closed interior spaces (like the dam in X2, the nighttime assault on Liberty Island, the campfire scene in X2, kelly at Magneto's island in X1). Mostly it works fine for creating a realistic look and moody atmosphere but sometimes it's a little too dark. (Minority Report is another movie that is just too damned dark!).

X3 just used a brighter colour palette and more daylight shots, it doesn't make it wrong, just cinematographically different.