X-Movies: A sad representation of the comics?

[ShadowBoxing]

This discussion is making the rounds on the X-Boards, but since this gets more traffic, I decided we should tackle it here.

I am lifting the name from one of the threads, but this will be a discussion focused on the entire topic, rather than being broken up into like 12 different topics which are basically the same thing.

Basically, the discussion is not the old chestnut "X3 sucks...Ratner sucks...Cyclops lives" stuff all over again, it is that not just X3 but X2 and X1 were bad.

I have to agree. While the movies were good on the surface, they were a horrible and pitiful representation of the comics on which they [should have] been based.

I won't even get into discussions of the costumes, because every has their own thing on that, and it's barely an issue considering just how many X-costumes we've seen.

 

[KenK]

X-men's comic history is a rich one, but it had long since become convoluted and packed with filler, before the first X-Men film.

The films took the concept and acknowledged a lot of things that weren't really essential in translating the comic to film. Still, it stressed the importance of the themes that paralled the issues with face in reality regarding racism, prejudice, and intolerance. They presented Magneto not as an outright evil individual, but someone who'd experienced the horrors humanity could inflict on others, and fought to make sure that didn't happen to his people again. They presented Xavier as he should have been, someone who believed humans and mutants could life together in society if positive examples were emphasized.

People have always had their issues with Storm, I'll say she's at least had a few choice moments over the course of the franchise.

Cyclops, yes, he got the shaft in X3, but it's not like he wasn't the character he was in the comics.

Rogue; I think the most interesting aspect of her character is her primary power, and it was good that they made her a teenager and focused on that one power. Even the circumstances under which she first realized she got her powers was spot on. Plus, we already had three former models in the film, I think it helped ground things just to have one actress not known primarily for being physical beauty (this in no way being a slight towards Anna Paquin, as I think she's grown quite nicely in all the right places!).

Wolverine; he's the most popular character in the whole X-universe, deal with it. Of course more focus was gonna shift to him, but at least the first film put it in a plausible context. He represented the audience, and allowed Xavier to fill in the gaps for them.

X2 just raised the bar, giving us more action and a logical path for the story to follow from the first film. The Registration Act fails and someone with the means and motives decides to take action. Forces his had through politics to get what he wants and gets the X-Men running. And quite plausibly, they team up with Magneto because through everything him and Charles have been through, the still respect each other, and I think even the third film acknowledged that.

Could they have been closer to the comics, sure, but they weren't guaranteed to be better films if they were.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Wolverine; he's the most popular character in the whole X-universe, deal with it. Of course more focus was gonna shift to him, but at least the first film put it in a plausible context. He represented the audience, and allowed Xavier to fill in the gaps for them.

First off, no Cyclops has never acted like he did in the first or second films. He is not a whiny little prissy *****. He is a stoic bada$$, someone who is soft spoken but carries a big stick. Wolverine had a problem with Scott, not the other way around. Remember Wolverine respects Scott despite acting like a total a$$hole.

And no, I disagree again. This was X-MEN not Wolverine. X-Men is never, not ever been about just Wolverine (in fact that is why he has a spinoff series). If you look at X-MEN's major arcs not one features Wolverine at the expense of other characters. There has never been a main character who disproportionately holds the spotlight. Sure Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine and Xavier [and formerly Jean] are your big guns but even they don't completely overshadow the rest. Even when the stories arc showcases a certain problem pertaining to a certain character (like Cyclops and Phoenix in the Phoenix Saga) you still have other characters have incredibly important and indispensible roles (such as Wolverine fighting Hellfire and Colossus as the Proletariat).

The fact is these movies made Wolverine take on the roles once filled by 5 or 6 characters. Wolverine was Xavier's confidant instead of Jean. He was Jean's best friend instead of Storm. He was the logical leader instead of Cyclops. He was the understanding friend to Rogue instead of Gambit. He wasn't the "outcast among the outcast (which is what made him so popular)" he was the outcast who was above and beyond everyone else on the team.

That's a wrong way to write an X-Men movie.

 

[KenK]

First off, no Cyclops has never acted like he did in the first or second films. He is not a whiny little prissy *****. He is a stoic bada$$, someone who is soft spoken but carries a big stick. Wolverine had a problem with Scott, not the other way around. Remember Wolverine respects Scott despite acting like a total a$$hole.

When does he act like a whiny prick in the movie? When did Wolverine ever disrespect Scott in the movies? Aside from calling him a "dick", a moment everyone seems to love.

The fact is these movies made Wolverine take on the roles once filled by 5 or 6 characters. Wolverine was Xavier's confidant instead of Jean.

Since when? If anything, X2 and 3 were examples of Xavier having no trust in Wolverine at all. Magneto confirmed that Xavier kept information that would have helped Wolverine piece together his past, and he tried to keep Wolverine away from Jean when she came back from Alkali Lake, even accusing him of her lashing out.

He was Jean's best friend instead of Storm.

Storm and Jean spent all of X2 together! Scenes with Jean and Wolverine were mostly him pining over her. Which is in the comics, so what's your point?

He was the logical leader instead of Cyclops.

I've give you X3. But the strategies and execution of plans in one and two came from all characters, even Magneto who came up with the idea to use Mystique as a decoy. Not to mention it was Magneto that ultimately stopped the machine, and Jean who ultimately saved the whole time and the students. Even in the first film, it was Cyclops taking out Magneto that aided Wolverine in destroying the machine.

He was the understanding friend to Rogue instead of Gambit.

Gambit was a pussyhound who wanted what he knew full well he couldn't have. Wolverine and Rogue had that friendship in the comics before the movies.

 

[FireandIce213]

I think the first two movies were pretty good as far as comic adaptation....One guy already pointed out that in the first two movies Wolverine wasnt the one saving the day all the time, all in all it took the whole xmen lineup to do what they had to do (Take out Magneto's machine in X1, take out Stryker's cerebro in x2). I dont think the first two movies were as much a wolverine love fest as they were a story being told through his point of view. Now X3 is a different story they obviously shafted Cyclops in favor of Wolverine...I do also agree that Cyclops was Cyclops in all three films (well maybe not x3). Had they given Cyclops more screentime he wouldve had a better chance to shine, otherwise James Marsden did really really well with what he had and really looked and acted the part.

 

[CaptainCanada]

They did a good job of adapting the X-Men's world in the comics, within the constraints of a reasonable-length film. Regarding Wolverine's role, he's the series most popular character by a country mile, so making him the viewpoint character was the logical thing to do (along with Rogue in the first film), and Jackman was perfect in the part.

 

[Silvermoth]

I enjoyed the first two but then they went way downhill. So I'ld rather they restart the franchise

 

[Dr. Fate]

First off, no Cyclops has never acted like he did in the first or second films. He is not a whiny little prissy *****. He is a stoic bada$$, someone who is soft spoken but carries a big stick. Wolverine had a problem with Scott, not the other way around. Remember Wolverine respects Scott despite acting like a total a$$hole.

And no, I disagree again. This was X-MEN not Wolverine. X-Men is never, not ever been about just Wolverine (in fact that is why he has a spinoff series). If you look at X-MEN's major arcs not one features Wolverine at the expense of other characters. There has never been a main character who disproportionately holds the spotlight. Sure Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine and Xavier [and formerly Jean] are your big guns but even they don't completely overshadow the rest. Even when the stories arc showcases a certain problem pertaining to a certain character (like Cyclops and Phoenix in the Phoenix Saga) you still have other characters have incredibly important and indispensible roles (such as Wolverine fighting Hellfire and Colossus as the Proletariat).

The fact is these movies made Wolverine take on the roles once filled by 5 or 6 characters. Wolverine was Xavier's confidant instead of Jean. He was Jean's best friend instead of Storm. He was the logical leader instead of Cyclops. He was the understanding friend to Rogue instead of Gambit. He wasn't the "outcast among the outcast (which is what made him so popular)" he was the outcast who was above and beyond everyone else on the team.

That's a wrong way to write an X-Men movie.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[Still A ThorFan]

This is a great poll, I mean that. I voted for a restart.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

X-men's comic history is a rich one, but it had long since become convoluted and packed with filler, before the first X-Men film.

The films took the concept and acknowledged a lot of things that weren't really essential in translating the comic to film. Still, it stressed the importance of the themes that paralled the issues with face in reality regarding racism, prejudice, and intolerance. They presented Magneto not as an outright evil individual, but someone who'd experienced the horrors humanity could inflict on others, and fought to make sure that didn't happen to his people again. They presented Xavier as he should have been, someone who believed humans and mutants could life together in society if positive examples were emphasized.

People have always had their issues with Storm, I'll say she's at least had a few choice moments over the course of the franchise.

Cyclops, yes, he got the shaft in X3, but it's not like he wasn't the character he was in the comics.

Rogue; I think the most interesting aspect of her character is her primary power, and it was good that they made her a teenager and focused on that one power. Even the circumstances under which she first realized she got her powers was spot on. Plus, we already had three former models in the film, I think it helped ground things just to have one actress not known primarily for being physical beauty (this in no way being a slight towards Anna Paquin, as I think she's grown quite nicely in all the right places!).

Wolverine; he's the most popular character in the whole X-universe, deal with it. Of course more focus was gonna shift to him, but at least the first film put it in a plausible context. He represented the audience, and allowed Xavier to fill in the gaps for them.

X2 just raised the bar, giving us more action and a logical path for the story to follow from the first film. The Registration Act fails and someone with the means and motives decides to take action. Forces his had through politics to get what he wants and gets the X-Men running. And quite plausibly, they team up with Magneto because through everything him and Charles have been through, the still respect each other, and I think even the third film acknowledged that.

Could they have been closer to the comics, sure, but they weren't guaranteed to be better films if they were.

Well said.

 

[SuperFerret]

Wow, Batman Begins really started something didn't it?

 

[SuperFerret]

Damn Hype.

 

[Ben Urich]

I voted "I like them the way they are," but by "them" I mean the first two. The third one was utter ****.

I agree with the earlier poster who said the X-Men's history is just too inaccessable to the casual theatergoer. Singer's films were basically true to the spirit of the comics without being so true that they were hokey (Spider-Man, anyone?)

X3... I'm sure everyone knows by now how I feel about it. Fox shouldn't have canned Singer when he left to do Superman. He would have actually done something with Phoenix, at least.

The franchise absolutely does not need a restart, nor does X4 need to be made. Marvel should focus on developing other projects.

EDIT: For the record, I loved how Cyclops was handled in the films. Giving him the additional superpower of invisibility made them much more watchable. t:

 

[triplefive]

I didn't like the all of the characterizations and the plays on the characters' ages, but it was interesting to see everything play out on screen. I enjoyed the movies if I forgot that I ever knew anything about the characters in the comic books, i.e. Cyclops was just a guy who could shoot laser beams from his eyes.

However, as an X-Men franchise, I would like to see a restart. They don't need to bring the alien/other-worldly events into it, but I'd like it if the characters were portrayed more like their comic book counterparts. I would love to see it start with the original 5 but they're not really famous enough. And you know they have to have Wolverine and Storm in there somewhere.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I didn't like the all of the characterizations and the plays on the characters' ages, but it was interesting to see everything play out on screen. I enjoyed the movies if I forgot that I ever knew anything about the characters in the comic books, i.e. Cyclops was just a guy who could shoot laser beams from his eyes.

However, as an X-Men franchise, I would like to see a restart. They don't need to bring the alien/other-worldly events into it, but I'd like it if the characters were portrayed more like their comic book counterparts. I would love to see it start with the original 5 but they're not really famous enough. And you know they have to have Wolverine and Storm in there somewhere.

You see, I think now especially, you could get away with this. Sure Wolverine and Storm are important. But think of the draw the second film would get with the promise that Wolverine is coming. Furthermore you could give Wolverine an entrance worthy of him. Think of him slamming open that door in Department H, cigar lite, and saying "Hey bub, who are these bigwigs you wanted me to meet", and then proceeding to slash Chasen's tie and shirt when Xavier offers him free agent status.

You could set him up as the badass.

X-Men's history is not that hard to put in movie form (observe)

Film 1 (stand alone): Original five are assembled to battle Magneto, and the Sentinels. Follows rough outline of Ultimate X-Men 1-6 and Uncanny X-Men 14-16.
Magneto defects from Xavier. He forms X-Men. Xavier is apprehended on national television, outing him as a mutant. Sentinels go rogue from Trask and attempt to install a state of martial law. Magneto teams up with X-Men and storm Washington to save him. Magneto uses powers to case all the Sentinels to instead hunt humans. Quicksilver ultimately betrays his father. Xavier mindwipes Magneto.

Film 2 (installment 1 of 2): The original five (minus Cyclops) are captured by Steven Lang's new wave of Sentinels. They are kept in an abandoned soviet space station, former property of the once powerful Soviet leader, Eric the Red.
Xavier assembles a new team of Cyclops, Wolverine, Colossus, Storm, and Nightcrawler. They and Xavier's friend in UN Starcore, Dr Corbeau, organize for a shuttle mission (originally being launched to study solar flares) to take the X-Men to the space station to deactivate the Sentinels.
The X-Men are successful, however on the trip back the exploding space station damages the shuttle. Jean is forced to use her TK to pilot it back to earth through a passing solar flare.

Film 3 (installment 2 of 2) Jean becomes Phoenix. The Hellfire Club, of whom Steven Lang and Trask were former members.
Trask is re-enlisted by the government to help Lyla Andrews (an analogue of Lilandra) to create The Guard (analogue of Imperial Guard), a new mutant police force comprised of mutants who had enlisted in the US army.
The project is secretly funded by the Hellfire Club, who fail to control Jean. When Jean's psychic induced hulluciations (by Jason Wyngard) case her to go crazy. Sebastian Shaw calls in the Guard to deal with her.
She is taken into custody and taken to a military base where she awaits execution.
She breaks free and the X-Men are forced to step in and deal with her, when she is defeated she sacrifices herself. Cyclops quits.
(The fight with Hellfire would include Wolverine's famous rescue)

Film the second two simultaneously. By the end of the third Cyclops and Jean are totally written out.

That gets Cyclops and Jeans arcs done by film three. Wolverine's and Storm's can start by film two...you cover essentiall issue 1 to issue 137 in three movies. And with the way it ends leaves you lots of room to play with. And the diversity of villains (Trask being the only one that shows up three times...but as a minor character) you can reuse Magneto without being redundant. Or do something new.

 

[CAH]

The first two X films were fantastic (if only my favorite, Beast, had been included in them) but the third was ok. X3 wasn't bad, it just wasn't as good and it was WAAAY too fast paced.


A reboot/restart of the franchise would piss off a lot of fans, so it's not the best of ideas.


CAH

 

[KenK]

No one would be talkin' "reboot" if not for the third film. I'm sure there are people who never liked any of the films, but I think most fans were more than happy with the series(at least the first two films).

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The first two X films were fantastic (if only my favorite, Beast, had been included in them) but the third was ok. X3 wasn't bad, it just wasn't as good and it was WAAAY too fast paced.


A reboot/restart of the franchise would piss off a lot of fans, so it's not the best of ideas.


CAH

I don't know about this. It did not piss off Burton fans to restart Batman. And it did not piss off Donner fans to "restart" Superman (the movie just happened to be bad).

The first three will never go away. To restart a franchise might even bring fans back who say "hey, I liked the first three...now let's see how this new guy does things"...

 

[FireandIce213]

I don't know about this. It did not piss off Burton fans to restart Batman. And it did not piss off Donner fans to "restart" Superman (the movie just happened to be bad).

The first three will never go away. To restart a franchise might even bring fans back who say "hey, I liked the first three...now let's see how this new guy does things"...

I think to restart it so soon would piss off a lot of fans...I think maybe 5 to ten years from now a reboot of the franchise would be much more accepted.

 

[Warhammer]

I liked X1 and loved X2.
X3 was a piece of s***, but great eye candy.

The Pros of the X-Movies:

- Tone of The X-Movies: The movies kept the essence of the comics, and did it very well for a movie.
- Xavier: Damn, did Patrick Stewart do a great job as Xavier. He had all of the essence from the comics. I am glad that Stewart was out of the Picard shadow and is now known as Professor Xavier, also.
- Magneto: I loved Ian McKellan as Magneto. As KenK said on the 2nd post, "They presented Magneto not as an outright evil individual, but someone who'd experienced the horrors humanity could inflict on others, and fought to make sure that didn't happen to his people again." I am glad that he wasnt some outright evil villain. Bryan Singer actually made him a character who saw himself as doing good, from his (very reasonable and respectable) personal view.
- Wolverine: They did him perfectly from a movie's standpoint. In X-Men, Bryan Singer actually made him a real character. He wasn't some rough, tough, beserker. Hugh Jackman did a great job and because of Wolverine, along with his other work, became one of my favorite actors.
- SFX: The effects were top-notch.
- Bryan Singer's vision/direction: He actually made a very smart movie and a great sequel. He put racism and fear into the movie. You felt like you an outsider watching the movie by the atmosphere set. The movie could appeal to anyone, not just an action buff or a comic fan. The first 2 had strong underlying messages about real world issues that still exist today. The mutants could be compared to us in just about every sense.
- The relationship between Xavier & Magneto: The friendship and opposing views were great. It was strongly showed in all 3 of the films. If I had to choose my favorite part of the X-Movies, their relationship would be the key thing. The scene when Charles first sees Magneto at the Senate meeting, the Chess game (Ending scene of X-Men), and when Magneto changes Cerebro around to target humans had such an underlying message that I loved.
- The Score: It was great in all 3 movies.
- Superior Writing (In X-Men and X2): The team was great. Too bad they left with Singer on Superman Returns.
- Costumes: I like the costumes. If they had their comic costumes, they'd look like s*** and we all know it.

The Cons of The X-Movies:

- Cyclops: Cyclops is my favorite X-Man and he got treated like s*** in X2 and X3. In X2, Bryan Singer gave him the shaft for more Wolvie. While I love Wolverine, I didn't like that Cyclops was only in 20 minutes of the damn movie when he is the leader of the X-Men. I never felt anything remotely close to being a leader in Cyclops in any of the movies. In X-Men, he got a fair representation. It was the first movie, so I had to give Singer some slack. He completely f***ed over Cyclops in X2. Brett Ratner, Simon, and Zak also screwed Cyclops over, IMO, much worse by making him go like a b****. I understand that James Marsden was also shooting Superman Returns, but he at least could've been of some importance. To make it worse, everyone in X3 just made it look like they didn't give a s*** that Cyclops died. There was no emotion impact, whatsoever, and they brushed it off like it was nothing.
- Too much focus on Wolverine: I understand how the first X-Movies were basically told in Wolverine's POV, but X3 strictly made it Wolvie. I want more of a team, not solo.
- Not really a team effort: In all of the movies, I never ever saw any major team work whatsoever, except for the scene in X-Men when Wolverine destroyed Magneto's machine (and that's not saying much). The only good scene was the climax of X3, when the team finally became a team. I always dreamed of seeing a scene when the X-Men all fight a sentinel together. I wanted to see Cyclops shooting, Storm launching a lightning bolt and Wolvie slashing a sentinel together to show some team unity, but I never saw that. The X-Movies didn't give me a vibe of the being X-Men at all. They were all just a group of mutants doing their own thing.
- Too many characters, not enough screen time for most: I hated that crap. Colossus got crappy treatment in X3. Rogue got crappy screen time in X3, as well. Actually, everybody except Storm, Wolverine, Magneto, and Phoenix got good screen time. Angel in X3 was just straight up waste of time.
- Rogue and Iceman relationship: I hated that Iceman wasn't a senior X-Man. I hated that He and Rogue even hooked up in the first place. Bad writing there.
- Piece of S*** Writing (in X3): It was s***. Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg suck at writing. There is no question about it.

In General, I liked the X-Movies, but they didn't blow me away.
X-Men and X2 were cool, but they had their many flaws. X3 was just s***.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I think to restart it so soon would piss off a lot of fans...I think maybe 5 to ten years from now a reboot of the franchise would be much more accepted.

Well I'm not assuming you would like start tomorrow, if that is what you're implying.

 

[FireandIce213]

Well I'm not assuming you would like start tomorrow, if that is what you're implying.

No thats not what I'm implying. But I think a year or two from now would be to soon. How long ago was Batman and Robin released before they made Batman Begins?

 

[Warhammer]

No thats not what I'm implying. But I think a year or two from now would be to soon. How long ago was Batman and Robin released before they made Batman Begins?

8 years, but that's only because Batman & Robin was critically panned and had very lackluster box office. X3 opened with mixed reviews and is one of the biggest films of 2006 (behind POTC: DMC) and highest grossing superhero movie yet. (excluding DVD sales, and it made huge profit there)

A new X-Men franchise won't be happening for a very long time.

 

[FireandIce213]

8 years, but that's only because Batman & Robin was critically panned and had very lackluster box office. X3 opened with mixed reviews and is one of the biggest films of 2006 (behind POTC: DMC) and highest grossing superhero movie yet. (excluding DVD sales, and it made huge profit there)

A new X-Men franchise won't be happening for a very long time.

8 years? Damn it feels longer than that.

 

[GNR]

The movies were way too serious and dark.Took itself way too seriously.