X3 Forum Debate #4: "This Time Last Year"

[Abaddon]

In retrospect the experience I had getting hyped for that movie completely spoilt it and, in a way, made it seem like more of a let-down. I went in there knowing with about 75% certainty that Cyclops was toast, most of the major plot points, and that the movie was going to seem like it was directed by a kid with ADD. Spoiling myself only made me hope that much more that all the horrible things I'd been hearing about it were FALSE and that it would still fulfil my highest hopes and dreams. Unfortunately, no... but still.

It wasn't BAD, it just wasn't as good as it should have been.

This place went berserk after the movie came out... I put in my 2 cents every now and then but for the most part stayed out of the cyclical "Cyclops LIVES!" and "Halle Berry Sucks!" arguments and tried to remain as neutral as I could. I don't miss those times at all, for me the best part about these boards was the year of build-up when our imaginations could run wild.

When I watch it now, I really enjoy it. Not quite as much as X1 but probably on par with X2. I'm glad they made it, I just wish it could have lived up to the massive amount of hype built up around it. In reality, very few movies ever do, but I was kinda hoping this would be the best. The Revenge of the Sith that made the whole 6 year wait just perfect.

I like to think it's still out there, somewhere. And when it comes, I'll be ready to hype it up again!

what he said.

 

[X-Maniac]

In retrospect the experience I had getting hyped for that movie completely spoilt it and, in a way, made it seem like more of a let-down. I went in there knowing with about 75% certainty that Cyclops was toast, most of the major plot points, and that the movie was going to seem like it was directed by a kid with ADD. Spoiling myself only made me hope that much more that all the horrible things I'd been hearing about it were FALSE and that it would still fulfil my highest hopes and dreams. Unfortunately, no... but still.

It wasn't BAD, it just wasn't as good as it should have been.

This place went berserk after the movie came out... I put in my 2 cents every now and then but for the most part stayed out of the cyclical "Cyclops LIVES!" and "Halle Berry Sucks!" arguments and tried to remain as neutral as I could. I don't miss those times at all, for me the best part about these boards was the year of build-up when our imaginations could run wild.

When I watch it now, I really enjoy it. Not quite as much as X1 but probably on par with X2. I'm glad they made it, I just wish it could have lived up to the massive amount of hype built up around it. In reality, very few movies ever do, but I was kinda hoping this would be the best. The Revenge of the Sith that made the whole 6 year wait just perfect.

I like to think it's still out there, somewhere. And when it comes, I'll be ready to hype it up again!

You got my support right up to the Revenge of the Sith comment. I absolutely loathed the Sith movie. Every second of it! I guess what i feel for it is what some people feel for X3.

 

[Storm22]

Love Sith and X3! Liking your countdown list in the "Marvel: Best to Worst" poll X!

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

Well...okay...but....

Bryan Singer knew full well that the next movie would include the Phoenix Saga (in some form or other), and Cyclops is part of that saga. So why did Singer take Marsden away, and why did Marsden agree to leave the X-franchise? They are partly to blame for what happened with Cyclops in X3.

Regarding Bryan's alleged draft, it's been said he offered his ideas to Fox (no evidence of that though), but there would be possible copyright issues on Fox using those ideas if Singer wasn't attached to the project.

So, you can see how circumstances developed into the X3 we did get....

I suppose Fox could've bought the rights. I don't know if they didn't want to or weren't offered the opportunity.

I know this has been explained a billion times already but let me repeat it. Marsden signed onto SR while X3 was basically in development hell. That is a fact. He didn't choose SR over X3. Once Bryan's production schedule for SR was firmly established Fox rushed to put X3 into production and that partially caused the conflict with Jimmy's availability. Initially Fox said his committment to SR was the only reason his storyline was limited but as we've now discovered (confirmed by Kinberg and Penn) there was a lot more to it than just that. Yes I suppose if anyone wants to point the finger of blame at Jimmy they can, but given a choice between a definite contract and a tentative maybe-we'll-make-a-movie-sometime non-committment, if you were him which one would you choose? (And don't forget to take into consideration the fact they let the fricking director slip through their fingers)

 

[X-Maniac]

I suppose Fox could've bought the rights. I don't know if they didn't want to or weren't offered the opportunity.

I know this has been explained a billion times already but let me repeat it. Marsden signed onto SR while X3 was basically in development hell. That is a fact. He didn't choose SR over X3. Once Bryan's production schedule for SR was firmly established Fox rushed to put X3 into production and that partially caused the conflict with Jimmy's availability. Initially Fox said his committment to SR was the only reason his storyline was limited but as we've now discovered (confirmed by Kinberg and Penn) there was a lot more to it than just that. Yes I suppose if anyone wants to point the finger of blame at Jimmy they can, but given a choice between a definite contract and a tentative maybe-we'll-make-a-movie-sometime non-committment, if you were him which one would you choose? (And don't forget to take into consideration the fact they let the fricking director slip through their fingers)

I still don't understand what that 'development hell' was all about. What was it about the idea of a next movie that was so problematic? The thought of committing to Bryan's suggested X3 and X4? If not, then what? What was the issue?

 

[Rac]

Bryan definitely had a draft in place. I don't know if Fox didn't have the rights to those ideas or simply chose to go in another direction.

They just didn't care. Fox (akaRothman) just wanted to get X3 in theaters before Superman because he was pissed.

Bryan Singer knew full well that the next movie would include the Phoenix Saga (in some form or other), and Cyclops is part of that saga. So why did Singer take Marsden away, and why did Marsden agree to leave the X-franchise? They are partly to blame for what happened with Cyclops in X3.

Maybe that's again the stuff with Fox? Many people haven't said that "I would love to work with Fox again!". It's usually the opposite. Marsden and Singer are friends. Are you gonna say no if your friend offers you a role in another big budget summer movie? I have no personal experience with Fox, but what've heard of them they don't seem to be the nicest people in the industry. I'd rather work with my friends than some *******s.

(I'm sure other studios have ******* execs too. But somehow people just don't speak of them. I know WB. has had those, dunno if the same guys still work there, but anyway Fox is the antichrist right now.)

 

[04nbod]

Marketing: Wonderful- it had the big cannes premiere and those amazing billboard posters (i still want the rogue and phoenix one)

Posters: Not great- the teaser poster worked well enough but what the hell was going on with the theatrical poster?Phoenix relegated to the back row as was rogue in favour of angel who was barely in it. Wolverine as usual taking up all the space no iceman yet kitty is on there wtf? And to top it all it was at a weird angle.

TV spots: Misleading, We had a rogue TV spot when she was barely in it. One for the younger team that excluded colossus but kept angel in . All the rest were generic

Clips: Way to spoil everything thinking back to X2 the only clip i saw was iceman and his wall in the corridor and the scene outside bobby's house in full. the rest were cut and sliced for TV shows. Putting all of them in their entirity and most of them the highlights of the movie out on the internet before the movie opens- madness

I was really excited for this movie and lapped up all this stuff thinking the best would be saved for the movie but no and i think that was because X3 was so short. We said that before the movie even come out on here and it was proved correct its a good film just not half as good as it could have been

 

[X-Maniac]

Bryan has stated his public opinion. Whatever he told his friends in private is going to stay that way.

Scott's fate was punishment for Marsden working with Singer. I don't think that's exactly a secret.

Bryan definitely had a draft in place. I don't know if Fox didn't have the rights to those ideas or simply chose to go in another direction.

I think it's rather silly to make unproven claims on here. Saying you know what Bryan thinks privately, or that you know the unedited X3 had four hours of footage, is something that could be said by anyone. Unless it's backed up and officially stated, it's meaningless. Claims of 'I know/have/have seen something you don't/haven't' are prevalent on the internet - some are probably true, but without any evidence or official status, they mean nothing. Either put your money where your mouth is, or don't bother.

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

You're reading too much into my post.

Point 1: Don't you think he was simply being polite with his comments about X3? (which never exactly lavished praise on the film) What I meant about his private opinion staying that way is that I doubt his friends are going to blab to the media. Read the sentence again because I didn't state that he'd personally told me.

Point 2: I stated that Marsden's treatment by the studio is no secret so no further explanation is needed there.

Point 3: Bryan himself has said that he had ideas for X3. Sorry if you missed that revelation.

 

[X-Maniac]

You're reading too much into my post.

Point 1: Don't you think he was simply being polite with his comments about X3? (which never exactly lavished praise on the film) What I meant about his private opinion staying that way is that I doubt his friends are going to blab to the media. Read the sentence again because I didn't state that he'd personally told me.

Point 2: I stated that Marsden's treatment by the studio is no secret so no further explanation is needed there.

Point 3: Bryan himself has said that he had ideas for X3. Sorry if you missed that revelation.

The only comment I know Bryan made was that it was 'unbelievable' and that he was amazed what they had done in the time. 'Unbelievable' could mean a number of things, but he is unlikely to have liked the film-making style, given that he and Ratner are polar opposites and given that the film's lighting, pace, subtext and mood is very different to the ones he creates. I'd be interested to know what Bryan loved and hated, but he will never say....which is, of course, a professional thing to do.

As for Marsden's treatment, we've heard all sorts of stories. Politics, parameters, the writers suggesting killing him off. Frankly, I can't see how differently Cyclops' role could have played out, given that he was being gradually pushed out by Wolverine since the beginning.

And, yes, i know Bryan had ideas for X3. But now they are irrelevant. I wonder too if Bryan believes he made the right decision to leave, given the mixed reaction (see the forums here) and lower-than-expected box office of SR.

All in all, nothing seems to have been very well handled. But I prefer to appreciate what we did get, as we cannot undo it.

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

All in all, nothing seems to have been very well handled. But I prefer to appreciate what we did get, as we cannot undo it.

That's exactly what we should do.

Sorry if I seemed snappy but I didn't appreciate your perceived tone. I've watched this board for a while (even before I started participating) and noticed that even people who've provided the requested proof are still met with skepticism. There are people who actually have (so-called) insider information and there are those that have (shall we say) active imaginations. Nobody on this board is qualified to discern the difference. You can choose what you want to believe and what you want to dismiss. Okay?

 

[Theweepeople]

Maybe that's again the stuff with Fox? Many people haven't said that "I would love to work with Fox again!". It's usually the opposite. Marsden and Singer are friends. Are you gonna say no if your friend offers you a role in another big budget summer movie? I have no personal experience with Fox, but what've heard of them they don't seem to be the nicest people in the industry. I'd rather work with my friends than some *******s.

Some people have gone on record in stating that they would never work for Fox again. Producer Art Linson and director Alex Proyas have both said this.

(I'm sure other studios have ******* execs too. But somehow people just don't speak of them. I know WB. has had those, dunno if the same guys still work there, but anyway Fox is the antichrist right now.)

Fortunately, the new vice president of the WB who took over after Lorenzo Di Bonaventure got fired thought all of John Peters ideas for Superman Lives and other comic book films were crap. Without the new vice president we would have gotten a Superman that couldn't fly. He would wear a living black costume similar to Venom. Krypton wouldn't have been destroyed. Superman would have had a pink robot sidekick like R2D2. Lex Luther and Brainiac would have merged into an entity called Lexac to fight Superman. At the end of Superman Lives the man of steel was suposed to fight a giant robotic spider.

I can't believe that writers in hollywood get paid to write this crap.

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

Superman would have had a pink robot sidekick like R2D2.

That probably explains why Dan and Mike jokingly said a shopvac was the guard for the Fortress of Solitude. Not that makes sense. t:

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

The film was hyped fine,but it was nothing what people expected.