X3's ending vs. Superman Return's

[ntcrawler]

Out of both films I liked Superman's ending better. I just didn't like the scene in X3 where it zoomed out on Wolverine in the mansion, like it is his now.

I guess they were trying to be symbolic. It's his franchise now

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

Superman Return's Sequal

Superman Return AGAIN... I dun liek SR ending...

 

[X-Maniac]

This is typical of the kind of rubbish about this film and a major nitpick which takes away the film's credibility and realism. The Golden Gate Bridge is a SUSPENSION bridge. Which means that by design the roadbed CANNOT support its own weight. Hence why there are towers and cables to hold it up. The way its shown in the movie, if Magneto simply dropped it the way he he did, it would have collapsed under its own weight and sank under the water. And then Magneto would have also realized that Alcatraz is about 1.2 miles from shore, the Golden Gate bridge is about 1.1 miles from shore to shore, and the segment he liberated from tower to tower is about 0.8 miles. Even if he stretched it about 1000 feet to touch land at both ends, it would have just collapsed and sank into the bay. All hype and gee-whiz cool special effects, but very little thought or realism.

It's only a major nitpick where YOU are concerned. As I said earlier, any excuse to justify hate of the movie.

This is sci-fi, after all.

But since you are on a constant 'I hate X3' nitpick setting, let's look at some other stuff in the first two movies.

Please get back to me on the effects of injecting a large syringe of iron into a human bloodstream (as seen in X2) - I really wonder if the prison guard would suffer no ill-effects from this! Please also get back to me on how Magneto was right underneath the plummeting X-jet and how, from a considerable distance, he was able to see and repair the metal of its ripped tail section. While you are at it, can you also tell me why a cat's tongue wasn't sliced to shreds when it licked Wolverine's claws, where the mobile phone went that Gyrich put in his pocket before transforming to Mystique in X1, why Mystique's claw scars changed direction between the wound in X1 and the tent scene with Logan in X2, how Wolverine was unable to detect Mystique in that tent when his sense of smell could discern it wasn't the real Storm at the end of X1, and how Nightcrawler knew exactly where to teleport when he vanished from the X-jet to save Rogue....

And let's not even begin to apply the laws of physics to the effect of suddenly removing a large island (and its root in the ocean floor) in SR. Surely, it should have been 'goodbye Metropolis' from the resulting tsunami....

As I said, this is sci-fi.

I think you are watching the wrong kind of movies for your mentality/personality. Choose something without any 'suspension of disbelief' required and you will be a lot happier.

 

[Kanon]

SR had no story, and no ending. X3 may no have been the best movie ever, but at least have a story. I didn't like the scene after the credits, but the rest I think it was ok, and I don't think it was worse than X-Men and X2.

 

[ntcrawler]

It's only a major nitpick where YOU are concerned.

No, it's a major nitpick to ALOT of people. I'm not the one that noticed it at first, it was pointed out to me and as soon as I saw that it made me appreciate the absurdity of it all.

As I said earlier, any excuse to justify hate of the movie.

Unlike you, I refuse to blindly support something that's fundamentally flawed from the start. I'm a consumer, I have the right to be satisfied when I spend my money, and as I consumer I have the right to voice my concerns and displeasure. This movie doesn't need "any excuse" to justify hating it. There are plenty of reasons to hate as has already been pointed out by the fan community. Or are you still living in self denial? Not good at taking criticism?

This is sci-fi, after all.

The suspension of disbelief part in X-men is supposed to be cenetered around mutations and how they work. They are based on simple rules that establish how a character's powers work and how they are to be wielded. Having a bridge that's 1000 feet to short to do what it's supposed to do has nothing to do with sci fi, it has to do with back movie-making and lack of common sense by the production staff too caught up in their special effects to realize something as obvious as this.

But since you are on a constant 'I hate X3' nitpick setting, let's look at some other stuff in the first two movies.

Your point is irrelevant. I'm pointing out the flaws of X3. So far you haven't managed to refute them but instead are switching over to the first 2 movies, neither of which I have attacked.

Please get back to me on the effects of injecting a large syringe of iron into a human bloodstream (as seen in X2) - I really wonder if the prison guard would suffer no ill-effects from this!

Only one way to find out?

Please also get back to me on how Magneto was right underneath the plummeting X-jet and how, from a considerable distance, he was able to see and repair the metal of its ripped tail section.

This has already been discussed and explained by another user: "Theweepeople".

While you are at it, can you also tell me why a cat's tongue wasn't sliced to shreds when it licked Wolverine's claws,

For the same reason I'm able to lick a knife with my tongue without slicing it to shreds.

where the mobile phone went that Gyrich put in his pocket before transforming to Mystique in X1, why Mystique's claw scars changed direction between the wound in X1 and the tent scene with Logan in X2, how Wolverine was unable to detect Mystique in that tent when his sense of smell could discern it wasn't the real Storm at the end of X1, and how Nightcrawler knew exactly where to teleport when he vanished from the X-jet to save Rogue....

I don't have to debate these, others already did. Look hard enough and you'll find both the debates and the explanations. None of these make the plot collapse upon itself or make the movie appear as absurd as the way X3 did. In addition, none of these were taunted as being one of the major selling points of the movies. The tent scene between Logan and mystique was not something the studio execs were babbling over, neither was NightCrawler's teleportation-save of Rogue. The Golden Gate Bridge on the other hand, was. It was taunted over and over again as the greatest, most incredible thing we'll see in the movie. If that's the case, then they should have done some actual research!!!

And let's not even begin to apply the laws of physics to the effect of suddenly removing a large island (and its root in the ocean floor) in SR. Surely, it should have been 'goodbye Metropolis' from the resulting tsunami....

So let's not discuss why Superman spinning the earth in the opposite direction caused time to flow backwards in the original movie.

As I said, this is sci-fi.

This is a red herring. Superman is NOT the X-Men. Different universe, different set of rules by which that universe runs. Both require us to suspend disbelief in different ways. X-men's selling point was supposed to be its sense of realism not its sense of being larger than life, or being above human comprehension. The first 2 movies did a decent job of this. X3 went completely overboard.

I think you are watching the wrong kind of movies for your mentality/personality.

You are hardly in any position to judge me, my mentality, or personality. In addition, I'm not intimidated by your words or weak arguments. It's obvious that you're determined to defend this hack of a film no matter what and you take personal offense at anyone who dares challenge its validity or sacredness. I along with other people continue to expose it for the flaw and atrocity that it is. So far none of the refutals posted have managed to justify the film or broken down the flaws that we pointed out. I back up my claims with facts and reason, you do so with insults and diversion tactics.

I suggest you change the title of your avatar. From your posts, it's obvious you are hardly a "bringer of light and wisdom".

 

[X-Maniac]

You're nitpicking AGAIN ntcrawler.

I'm not 'defending' the movie - hate it as you wish, but don't try to quote ridiculous arguments to justify your hate. At the end of the day, YOU didn't like the movie. You are quite obviously seizing upon anything to justify your dislike of the movie: someone mentions the bridge and - predictably - this is your reason X3 was an atrocity. Someone else mentions something else, and predictably that is your reason it's an atrocity. You have a rather cynical agenda here. But box office proves you are not a majority.

If we can apply your GG Bridge argument to SR, the whole of SR is founded on two shaky plots: Superman's absence/return and Lex Luthor's scheme to create a new continent, neither of which stand up to the application of logic or movieworld science. And yet you are able to enjoy this movie.

I enjoyed X3, flaws and all. But SR's flaws are so monumental that its entire storyline falls to pieces when they are analysed.

 

[ntcrawler]

You're nitpicking AGAIN ntcrawler.

Oh I'm sorry, did I use up my quota for this month?

And I'll continue to do it until I and the rest of the community run out of things to nitpick. I don't need to ask you for permission to express myself and my feelings towards this or any other movie. Your attempts at intimidating me are not going to work, nor will they change my beliefs.

I'm not 'defending' the movie - hate it as you wish, but don't try to quote ridiculous arguments to justify your hate.

When a flaw causes a movie to lose credibility and no longer makes it possible to suspend that disbelief, that is a major flaw. Ridiculous is what the movie then becomes. If you're not troubled by any of those flaws, then you're exactly the kind of shallow blockbuster movie fan FOX is trying to milk. You probably enjoyed Alien vs Predator and the Hulk too.

At the end of the day, YOU didn't like the movie.

No. WE that is myself and a substantial number of viewers and fans didn't like the movie. Don't single me out just because you have no one else to pick on.

You are quite obviously seizing upon anything to justify your dislike of the movie: someone mentions the bridge and - predictably - this is your reason X3 was an atrocity.

No, YOU mentioned the bridge, and don't like it when your ideas or posts get criticized. And - predictably - you resort to insults and intimidation to get the other person to quiet down and back off. I don't have to seize upon just anything to justify dislike of this movie. As has been exhaustively shown on this and other threads, there are plenty of reasons to not like the film. You just happen to single me out because it's convenient and I actually dare to stand up to you.

it's an atrocity. You have a rather cynical agenda here. But box office proves you are not a majority.

And Theweepeople proves box office itself doesn't justify a movie being successful or likeable. Oh that's right, you're in that thread too making the same claims which he proved wrong, aren't you?

If we can apply your GG Bridge argument to SR, the whole of SR is founded on two shaky plots: Superman's absence/return and Lex Luthor's scheme to create a new continent, neither of which stand up to the application of logic or movieworld science. And yet you are able to enjoy this movie.

That's because Superman was always meant to be fantastic and larger than life. Look at the Superman films that came before it: Superman reverses time to stop Lex Luthor by flying against the earth's rotation and making in spin backwards, Superman freezes and lifts up an entire Lake, Superman doesn't have to breathe when in space, yet in the context that that universe is set up those are the rules and we're willing to accept them. The X-men operate according to a different set of rules, which were consistent between X1 and X2 but violated in X3. When you violate some of the basic premises that define a franchise or the characters, the result is never good. That is why I can enjoy the Superman movie but not X3. And I agree, the ending of Superman Returns and the premise was wrong, but I only smiled and shook my head. It didn't anger or upset me the way that X3 did, and one of the reasons why was because the characters and the storyline were not run into a dead end the way things were in X3. And the people behind SR didn't have interference from corporate suits and their personal agenda the way X3 did, neither which is good for making movies.

I enjoyed X3, flaws and all. But SR's flaws are so monumental that its entire storyline falls to pieces when they are analysed.

Good for you. And I enjoyed SR, flaws and all because it still had that movie "magic". X3 did not, and the whole story ended taking a downwards spiral after 10 minutes. And I am NOT the only one who thinks so. You just like to single me out.

 

[Kanon]

That's because Superman was always meant to be fantastic and larger than life. Look at the Superman films that came before it: Superman reverses time to stop Lex Luthor by flying against the earth's rotation and making in spin backwards, Superman freezes and lifts up an entire Lake, Superman doesn't have to breathe when in space, yet in the context that that universe is set up those are the rules and we're willing to accept them.

You are wrong. Even in the context of Superman, the movie if full of flaws that make X3 look like a masterpiece, like Superman being able to lift an entire island of kryptonite, with a chunk of kryptonite inside his body, all of this unaffected.

 

[ntcrawler]

You are wrong. Even in the context of Superman, the movie if full of flaws that make X3 look like a masterpiece, like Superman being able to lift an entire island of kryptonite, with a chunk of kryptonite inside his body, all of this unaffected.

Which was after Lois pulled out a piece that he was stabbed with from his body and Superman was able to recharge and heal himself using the sun. In addition, the entire Island was not made of Kryptonite but had kryptonite spread out all over it, mixed in with whatever the main material was, clearly there was less at the bottom when Superman was lifting the island than on top when he was standing on it. And it did almost cost him his life, didn't it? It's not like he walked away with just some sore muscles and a headache.

Besides, isn't the idea behind Superman's character that the man is larger than life? Larger and more powerful than anything people can imagine? That it's in his nature to do these overpowered things? That's the kind of hero that he's supposed to be?

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm not trying either to insult or intimidate you. I'm responding to your points, and I don't want to get into ever-smaller point-by-point dissections.

I know there are flaws with X3. I enjoyed the movie. For me, the fundamental flaws in SR stood out terribly, as though all the effort went on production design and visuals and not much on the story details and emotional consequences.

I haven't even seen AVP and I thought Hulk was good but too cerebral for a mass audience (not a shallow blockbuster, but not blockbuster enough). I'm not singling you out at all; i'm challenging some of your points because you obviously have an agenda, an axe to grind. I've already told you innumerable times that X3 lacked subtlety in places....so I'm not defending it for the sake of defending it. The box office proved it to be blockbuster, despite any issues people might have with the director, the plot or anything else (of course it wasn't perfect).

I was almost starting to think some people's bitter hatred of X3, and blind worship (even before release) of SR, must have some foundation until I saw SR.

 

[chaseter]

Which was after Lois pulled out a piece that he was stabbed with from his body and Superman was able to recharge and heal himself using the sun. In addition, the entire Island was not made of Kryptonite but had kryptonite spread out all over it, mixed in with whatever the main material was, clearly there was less at the bottom when Superman was lifting the island than on top when he was standing on it. And it did almost cost him his life, didn't it? It's not like he walked away with just some sore muscles and a headache.

Did you not see the kryptonite growing towards him while he was lifting the island out of the water??? And where did the doctor get the kryptonite from when he removed it from Supe's body in the hospital???

 

[Cyclops]

X3 hasn't divided the fanbase. It's clarified the internet division between those who love the X-Men because of Bryan Singer (the arty-farty movie theorists, generally) and those who love the X-Men because of the X-Men.

May I quote Lex Luthor for a moment? It's appropriate in this thread.

WRROOONNNNGGG!!!!

What about the people who love the X-Men for the X-Men and hated this film? Your analysis and suggestions of the fanbase leaves out that important distinction and simply "high and mighty"s your own position on the film, implying that those who dislike the movie are not "true fans" of the X-Men.

I have read the X-Men consistently for fifteen years, a full nine years before any of us saw Singer's interpretation. Yet I hated X3. Does that make me fit into your former division or latter?

 

[X-Maniac]

May I quote Lex Luthor for a moment? It's appropriate in this thread.

WRROOONNNNGGG!!!!

What about the people who love the X-Men for the X-Men and hated this film? Your analysis and suggestions of the fanbase leaves out that important distinction and simply "high and mighty"s your own position on the film, implying that those who dislike the movie are not "true fans" of the X-Men.

I have read the X-Men consistently for fifteen years, a full nine years before any of us saw Singer's interpretation. Yet I hated X3. Does that make me fit into your former division or latter?

Your user name suggests a rather large reason for disliking X3 (and yet Cyclops was shoved aside for most of X2, remember!!!).

Like it or dislike it as you wish, we're only discussing why we like it or dislike it. But you cannot fail to have noticed those who are defenders of Bryan Singer on here regardless of what he has created!!!

 

[ntcrawler]

Did you not see the kryptonite growing towards him while he was lifting the island out of the water??? And where did the doctor get the kryptonite from when he removed it from Supe's body in the hospital???

That I do not know. It looked to me that when Lois pulled that piece he was stabbed with, that she got all of it out.

 

[Cyclops]

Your user name suggests a rather large reason for disliking X3 (and yet Cyclops was shoved aside for most of X2, remember!!!).

Like it or dislike it as you wish, we're only discussing why we like it or dislike it. But you cannot fail to have noticed those who are defenders of Bryan Singer on here regardless of what he has created!!!

Choppy storytelling, wasting of excessive amounts of characters, sacrifice of storytelling and plot in favor of one good special effect and legions upon legions of at-best average effects, complete and utter destruction of the Dark Phoenix storyline, over-dependence on Halle Berry who has after six years still yet to convey anything remotely resembling Storm, poorly-written dialogue, lack of logic, lack of consistency, and last but not quite least, (although after the whole thing was over with, I found it less offensive than other problems) unnecessary killings for shock value.

Nice try, though. I also cannot fail to notice that those who enjoyed X3 mostly enjoyed it because of the special effects and the action. And the X-Men should be more than that, which this film conveniently forgot.

 

[Maze]

Superman ending all the way: imo poweful , meaningful ,moving .

X3 one? even if i liked some bits of the movie , i didn't care about the story and i was beginning to be really bored.

 

[ntcrawler]

Nice try, though. I also cannot fail to notice that those who enjoyed X3 mostly enjoyed it because of the special effects and the action. And the X-Men should be more than that, which this film conveniently forgot.

I agree. And they ARE more than that. At least X1 and X2 were. If you watch the commentaries and specials the cast and crew describe their vision of these movies as being being strongly character-driven, showing the real-world human drama and scenarios we can all relate to but of course with enough action to keep it exciting, like the comics. In fact, this is considered one of the franchise's strongest selling points, that it's more than just your typical blockbuster with lots of special effects and explosions, but something a bit deeper and more intelligent.

X3 deviated from this.

 

[MaleRogue]

Well X3 is my everything...
I don't want to see SM Returns.....
That movie looks like **** to me sorry

 

[Maze]

Well X3 is my everything...
I don't want to see SM Returns.....
That movie looks like **** to me sorry

You don't have to be sorry.

You are entitled to your opinion

 

[MaleRogue]

But I think I am really going to hate the movie...
I already hated the trailers.... But I loved the show and all....

 

[Maze]

ha you never know.

just be sure (i'm not saying that it is the case , but it could ) that unconsiously you have not some bias, it will not help your vision of the movie

If you see it , have a good showing

 

[BMM]

You are wrong. Even in the context of Superman, the movie if full of flaws that make X3 look like a masterpiece, like Superman being able to lift an entire island of kryptonite, with a chunk of kryptonite inside his body, all of this unaffected.

. . . kind of like Wolverine having half of his body stripped away down to the bones and growing the entirety of his body back within less than a second . . . which is not only a flaw within the context of the character (just as much as Superman in Returns) but it is also a flaw within the context of the X-Men films released before it. Each film is filled with character flaws.

 

[MaleRogue]

ha you never know.

just be sure (i'm not saying that it is the case , but it could ) that unconsiously you have not some bias, it will not help your vision of the movie

If you see it , have a good showing

Thanks did you see it?
And what did you think of it?

 

[tonytr1687]

Did you not see the kryptonite growing towards him while he was lifting the island out of the water??? And where did the doctor get the kryptonite from when he removed it from Supe's body in the hospital???

Ummm...why the **** do you think he was struggling to carry that thing the entire time, and then when he finally let it go he passed out and nearly died afterwards? He was using all of his might to push that thing into space. He was struggling even after just recharging his powers to their fullest extent. All you gotta do is pay attention to the details. Unfortunately one cannot pay attention to the details in X3 because there are none. There is no rational explanation for why Logan heals like a God during the climax, there is no explanation for why day turns night in a matter of minutes. There is no explanation for why Angel practically disappears in the second half, and no explanation for why Magneto had to move a whole friggin' bridge just so he could get to Alcatraz. Is Juggernaut's inability to swim the only reason? HAHAHAHA! X3 has many more flaws than merely one scene that requires a little suspension of disbelief, just look at the reviews. Say what you want about critics, but those guys are trained to look for flaws...and obviously they found more in X3. More glaring, more obvious, and more ridiculous. X3 was not deep in the slighest, it tried to be, but it failed b/c its director had ADD and the writers wrote a shallow script. No room for development, to attention to detail, just a rush-job through the character scenes in order to jump into the next action sequence. Say what you want about Superman, but the same cannot be said for Singer's film.

 

[X-Maniac]

Ummm...why the **** do you think he was struggling to carry that thing the entire time, and then when he finally let it go he passed out and nearly died afterwards? He was using all of his might to push that thing into space. He was struggling even after just recharging his powers to their fullest extent. All you gotta do is pay attention to the details. Unfortunately one cannot pay attention to the details in X3 because there are none. There is no rational explanation for why Logan heals like a God during the climax, there is no explanation for why day turns night in a matter of minutes. There is no explanation for why Angel practically disappears in the second half, and no explanation for why Magneto had to move a whole friggin' bridge just so he could get to Alcatraz. Is Juggernaut's inability to swim the only reason? HAHAHAHA! X3 has many more flaws than merely one scene that requires a little suspension of disbelief, just look at the reviews. Say what you want about critics, but those guys are trained to look for flaws...and obviously they found more in X3. More glaring, more obvious, and more ridiculous. X3 was not deep in the slighest, it tried to be, but it failed b/c its director had ADD and the writers wrote a shallow script. No room for development, to attention to detail, just a rush-job through the character scenes in order to jump into the next action sequence. Say what you want about Superman, but the same cannot be said for Singer's film.

Indeed, the same cannot be said. The details of how the Daily Planet should look, how the fortress should look, etc, are all there - I was looking at Superman Returns: The Visual Guide in a bookshop today - but the problem is that the details of production design are at the expense of the story. The film is straining so hard to be visually impressive that it forgets to make the story match up.

For instance - Superman and Clark are gone the exact same length of time, but no-one suspects anything. Superman just vanishes, telling no one. Lois, despite being a tenacious reporter in the media industry, is unaware of the remains of Krypton being discovered. Lois was heartbroken by Superman's disappearance (driven by bitterness to write a prize-winning article) but had met and had sex with Richard quickly enough for Richard to believe he is Jason's father. Lex creates craggy black rock that no one would ever want to buy. And the opening sequence was dreadful - an old widow who dies within seconds (so no need for any emotional engagement with her, the audience is lured in to a scene which is then slammed shut on them, no need to care about this old woman, she's done her part, she's dead, move on..). And the utterly ridiculous scene with that kid screaming when he throws his wig at her - what child would squeal like that over a hairpiece.

This wasn't Superman, this was Superglance - a film of people doing allegedly meaningful glances and strange staring. Clark sees Lois's article, he sees the picture with Richard, he is told of Lex's freedom because Superman was absent... but no emotional conflict, no drama, just lots of people moving their eyes from side to side.

The irony of Lex winning freedom because of Superman's absence was totally unexplored (never mind the apparent idea that Lex staged the apparent discovery of Krypton's remains as a ploy to gain freedom, a point entirely absent from the movie). The film should surely have opened with Lex's court case and Superman flying away from earth, then flashed forward five years.

So much opportunity squandered and missed. A good story melting away as i watched, the result as barren and lifeless as Lex's new island.

Conversely, X3 sits at the other end of the spectrum, packing in the emotion, the epic scale and comicbook feel... but lacking the attention to detail and subtlety and breathing space in places... These two movies are very different. Neither succeeded entirely. But I can forgive a few details in X3 more than i can forgive the sombre understated dullness of SR. And it seems the box office agrees - they want something epic and emotional with energy and adventure. The behind-the-scenes detail of SR is no good if the end result is lacking.