X3's ending vs. Superman Return's

[danoyse]

Lets not forget in X2 when Nightcrawler was already in the pit with the kidnapped X kids before he even bamfed??? You can see him in the freaking pit with his eyes closed! But do you know what??? I got over these little things and enjoyed the film...

Not to mention taking the jet to the Statue of Liberty...from Westchester! That had to be a 5-minute plane ride.

But I so totally enjoy these movies. If I overthink them, I wouldn't have enjoyed any of them.

I think the AICN drama just had people looking for things to hate. It really screwed up the whole movie for fans as much as the whole Fox/Singer fiasco.

I don't think everyone would be here throwing roses if Singer had stayed. His vision of X-Men was so different from the comics that he couldn't have even done a Dark Phoenix story without making drastic changes from the original comic. And people would be arguing for months over that version as well.

 

[chaseter]

Yes, exactly! And these are serious nitpicks - to be addressed in X3! X3 failed to take into account a massive event dubbed by fans as the "great blackout", whene for about a minute first every mutant in the world, and then every human suddenly came down to the ground, clutching his or her heads in agony. If they were driving a car, or flying a plane, or doing anything dangerous that required concentration, they'd all be dead. Speculation puts the death toll worldwide in the millions. 8 Months have passed at the beginning of X3, and it's not even mentioned? And it's a post 9/11 world? I guess these things really are commonplace after all. But you can't blame this on X2 because the ending of the movie was so soon after the actual event that there wasn't even time for any of to settle in yet, or the repercussions. These issues should have been addressed by X3, and they weren't.

The common people probably didn't know where or why that their heads hurt. And from the little White House scene at the end pretty much confirmed that the government now knows that Stryker was behind the massive head ache scandal and that Magneto made it hurt humans. Well Magneto is back bigger and better and I am sure that they really don't care about what happened but what is going to happen next.

 

[chaseter]

Not to mention taking the jet to the Statue of Liberty...from Westchester! That had to be a 5-minute plane ride.

But I so totally enjoy these movies. If I overthink them, I wouldn't have enjoyed any of them.

I think the AICN drama just had people looking for things to hate. It really screwed up the whole movie for fans as much as the whole Fox/Singer fiasco.

I don't think everyone would be here throwing roses if Singer had stayed. His vision of X-Men was so different from the comics that he couldn't have even done a Dark Phoenix story without making drastic changes from the original comic. And people would be arguing for months over that version as well.

I totally agree with you. The AICN script got people's hopes so high that everything in there obviously couldn't happen. So when some things didn't happen or where different from their hopes...fanboys got pissed. All movies have some faults, major and minor, but the point is that it is a movie and purely for enjoyment. The people that go home and overanalyze every frame of a movie to tear it down have serious issues. A lot of fans and critics were pissed at Singer for his X1...lets not forget that.

 

[ntcrawler]

The common people probably didn't know where or why that their heads hurt.

They wouldn't have to. The repercussions would come as a result of those who died because their planes fell out the sky or their cars crashed into each other on expressways. Someone's going to blame someone else. Governments would blame other governments and terrorists organizations, and every other doomsday cult, Islamic Jihad, Greenpeace, would either point fingers or take responsibility. Our real world is paranoid enough, it doesn't take a serious stretch of the imagination to apply it here.

And from the little White House scene at the end pretty much confirmed that the government now knows that Stryker was behind the massive head ache scandal and that Magneto made it hurt humans.

Oh sure, so they'd just go on tv, admit what happened and offer their apologies and condolences. Especially if the base straddles both borders and had personnel involved from both countries.

Well Magneto is back bigger and better and I am sure that they really don't care about what happened but what is going to happen next.

Someone's going to care when they're friends died for unexplained reasons. Especially when alot of their friends died due to unexplained reasons.

 

[danoyse]

Yes, exactly! And these are serious nitpicks - to be addressed in X3!

Or how about the end of X2, when the school was clearly up and running again. How did that happen?

X3 failed to take into account a massive event dubbed by fans as the "great blackout", whene for about a minute first every mutant in the world, and then every human suddenly came down to the ground, clutching his or her heads in agony. If they were driving a car, or flying a plane, or doing anything dangerous that required concentration, they'd all be dead. Speculation puts the death toll worldwide in the millions. 8 Months have passed at the beginning of X3, and it's not even mentioned? And it's a post 9/11 world? I guess these things really are commonplace after all. But you can't blame this on X2 because the ending of the movie was so soon after the actual event that there wasn't even time for any of to settle in yet, or the repercussions. These issues should have been addressed by X3, and they weren't.

On that same not...why wasn't the Statue of Liberty incident addressed in X2? Surely they knew Xavier's people played a part...didn't someone ask why they didn't alert security at the UN Summit what Magento was planning? That he had kidnapped one of their students?

Magneto was planning an incident that would have inadvertantly killed every world leader on the planet, not to mention everyone in NYC. Surely a phone call would have been in order, instead of sending a few X-Men in a jet and hoping they wouldn't be caught.

It's the same thing, really...they just seem to be able to get away with a whole lot.

 

[ntcrawler]

I totally agree with you. The AICN script got people's hopes so high that everything in there obviously couldn't happen. So when some things didn't happen or where different from their hopes...fanboys got
pissed.

be careful how you generalize. I never saw or even knew about AICN and the leaked script until AFTER I saw the movie.

A lot of fans and critics were pissed at Singer for his X1...lets not forget that.

Again, X1 did not polarize the fanbase and didn't suffer the same level of hostility from bad management decisions from FOX's top brass like X1 did. And it shows.

 

[danoyse]

They wouldn't have to. The repercussions would come as a result of those who died because their planes fell out the sky or their cars crashed into each other on expressways. Someone's going to blame someone else. Governments would blame other governments and terrorists organizations, and every other doomsday cult, Islamic Jihad, Greenpeace, would either point fingers or take responsibility. Our real world is paranoid enough, it doesn't take a serious stretch of the imagination to apply it here.

Well, the same thing applies to "Superman Returns". That blackout when Lex tried the crystal would have caused the same type of damage...and Lois Lane seemed to be the only one who cared to investigate.

And to a point, it was addressed in X3. Beast mentioned he was appointed to find a way to negotiate. They had Homeland Security after Magneto, and they had caught Mystique.

 

[chaseter]

They wouldn't have to. The repercussions would come as a result of those who died because their planes fell out the sky or their cars crashed into each other on expressways. Someone's going to blame someone else. Governments would blame other governments and terrorists organizations, and every other doomsday cult, Islamic Jihad, Greenpeace, would either point fingers or take responsibility. Our real world is paranoid enough, it doesn't take a serious stretch of the imagination to apply it here.


Oh sure, so they'd just go on tv, admit what happened and offer their apologies and condolences. Especially if the base straddles both borders and had personnel involved from both countries.



Someone's going to care when they're friends died for unexplained reasons. Especially when alot of their friends died due to unexplained reasons.

They should have explained this in X2...hahaha you have thought about these things way more than I have. I just want people in here to realize that their precious X1 and X2 had serious problems with it as well. But as I did, they can get over these things and enjoy a summer film.

 

[danoyse]

I totally agree with you. The AICN script got people's hopes so high that everything in there obviously couldn't happen. So when some things didn't happen or where different from their hopes...fanboys got pissed. All movies have some faults, major and minor, but the point is that it is a movie and purely for enjoyment. The people that go home and overanalyze every frame of a movie to tear it down have serious issues. A lot of fans and critics were pissed at Singer for his X1...lets not forget that.

Or it went in the other direction, when that script review leak basically said..."Here's why the movie is going to suck:" And suddenly every fan seemed to think they knew all the ins and outs of moviemaking to look for flaws throughout the movie. Frankly, the first 2 movies had it's share of production issues, if you watch them with the commentary tracks on DVD.

 

[ntcrawler]

Or how about the end of X2, when the school was clearly up and running again. How did that happen?

Xavier has contacts in high places. How else would he be able to get his hands on stealth aircraft and the resources necessary to maintain it and his school? A man of his standing in society and position would have influential allies. It's not that hard to contemplate.

Magneto was planning an incident that would have inadvertantly killed every world leader on the planet, not to mention everyone in NYC. Surely a phone call would have been in order, instead of sending a few X-Men in a jet and hoping they wouldn't be caught.

You give the government too much credit. You try calling in a threat like that, see how much they believe you. "Sir, I have terrible news. A man named Magneto is going to try to turn every world leader at the conference into a mutant!!!"

There was no time for rational phone calls or to be put by hold. That's why the X-men exist in the first place. To deal with situations where regular law enforcement just falls short.

 

[Obsidian]

Or how about the end of X2, when the school was clearly up and running again. How did that happen?



On that same not...why wasn't the Statue of Liberty incident addressed in X2? Surely they knew Xavier's people played a part...didn't someone ask why they didn't alert security at the UN Summit what Magento was planning? That he had kidnapped one of their students?

Magneto was planning an incident that would have inadvertantly killed every world leader on the planet, not to mention everyone in NYC. Surely a phone call would have been in order, instead of sending a few X-Men in a jet and hoping they wouldn't be caught.

It's the same thing, really...they just seem to be able to get away with a whole lot.

As I recall the Statue of Liberty incident was addressed in the film, at least twice.

A phone call is not enough to convince authorities that a 60 year old mutant is planning to wipe out everyone in NYC. The FBI, NSA, CIA, and the police need much more than a phone call. They need concrete proof, which the X-Men really didn't have. They just have hearsay from an alleged telepath. Not really helpful if you want to organize some kind of joint operation to stop Magneto and his cronies or to cancel the entire ceremony and evacuate everyone in NYC.

 

[danoyse]

Again, X1 did not polarize the fanbase and didn't suffer the same level of hostility from bad management decisions from FOX's top brass like X1 did. And it shows.

Are you kidding? The fans ripped the costumes so much that the "What would you prefer, yellow spandex?" line was added specifically as a shot back at them--they said so on the commentary track.

And how about Fox bumping X1's release date from November to July and barely giving them time to finish...and as a result you can see all sorts of mistakes: a guy kneeling next to Mystique driving the boat, the wire behind the guy Sabertooth tosses....they even apologize for the "Do you know what happens when a Toad is struck by lightning?" during the commentary track.

How about James Marsden walking on platform shoes so he'd look taller than Wolverine, but they stopped doing it during shooting, so in some scenes he's taller? Or Storm's accent that's vanished over 3 movies?

They also had to replace Wolverine when Dougray Scott bowed out, and they didn't film the cage match until the end of filming so Hugh Jackman had time to get in shape for it. Then they almost lost Hugh for awhile when he had a harness accident filming the Sabertooth fight. And Tyler Mane briefly lost his vision from the Sabertooth contact lenses.

And that's not even Ian McKellan when you see him from the back during the showdown on the torch--he'd already left to film "Lord of the Rings."

Was X3 really the first movie to experience trauma during shooting???

 

[danoyse]

Xavier has contacts in high places. How else would he be able to get his hands on stealth aircraft and the resources necessary to maintain it and his school? A man of his standing in society and position would have influential allies. It's not that hard to contemplate.

If he had contacts in high places, why did the President authorize Stryker to infiltrate the school?

You give the government too much credit. You try calling in a threat like that, see how much they believe you. "Sir, I have terrible news. A man named Magneto is going to try to turn every world leader at the conference into a mutant!!!"

If you call in a bomb threat, they clear the building...no matter how serious the call sounds. A news report in the movie mentions the summit will discuss the "mutant issue," and the Registration Act is a current controversial issue. Also, a group of mutants just took out a local train station...surely someone saw them leaving in a helicopter with the presidential seal on it???

There was no time for rational phone calls or to be put by hold. That's why the X-men exist in the first place. To deal with situations where regular law enforcement just falls short.

I saw the movie with a friend whose brother is an NYPD cop. She thought it was hilarious.

 

[danoyse]

As I recall the Statue of Liberty incident was addressed in the film, at least twice.

Not what was done about it. Just that Magneto was in jail, and that Jean had been acting different. It was no different than the Cerebro incident not being addressed specifically in X3.

A phone call is not enough to convince authorities that a 60 year old mutant is planning to wipe out everyone in NYC. The FBI, NSA, CIA, and the police need much more than a phone call. They need concrete proof, which the X-Men really didn't have. They just have hearsay from an alleged telepath. Not really helpful if you want to organize some kind of joint operation to stop Magneto and his cronies or to cancel the entire ceremony and evacuate everyone in NYC.

Let's just post it again:

If you call in a bomb threat, they clear the building...no matter how serious the call sounds. A news report in the movie mentions the summit will discuss the "mutant issue," and the Registration Act is a current controversial issue. Also, a group of mutants just took out a local train station...surely someone saw them leaving in a helicopter with the presidential seal on it???

I work in NY...if you leave an unattended bag lying around they close the street down. They would take a threat very seriously.

 

[BMM]

Are you kidding? The fans ripped the costumes so much that the "What would you prefer, yellow spandex?" line was added specifically as a shot back at them--they said so on the commentary track.

And how about Fox bumping X1's release date from November to July and barely giving them time to finish...and as a result you can see all sorts of mistakes: a guy kneeling next to Mystique driving the boat, the wire behind the guy Sabertooth tosses....they even apologize for the "Do you know what happens when a Toad is struck by lightning?" during the commentary track.

How about James Marsden walking on platform shoes so he'd look taller than Wolverine, but they stopped doing it during shooting, so in some scenes he's taller? Or Storm's accent that's vanished over 3 movies?

They also had to replace Wolverine when Dougray Scott bowed out, and they didn't film the cage match until the end of filming so Hugh Jackman had time to get in shape for it. Then they almost lost Hugh for awhile when he had a harness accident filming the Sabertooth fight. And Tyler Mane briefly lost his vision from the Sabertooth contact lenses.

And that's not even Ian McKellan when you see him from the back during the showdown on the torch--he'd already left to film "Lord of the Rings."

Was X3 really the first movie to experience trauma during shooting???

I find the prior effects of the rushed production schedules via X-Men and X2 to play a part in the anger regarding The Last Stand. That's the difference between X-Men and The Last Stand. X-Men is the first in a saga in which mistakes are bound to be made (testing the waters if you will). X2, however, seeks to improve upon those fan issues, or mistakes (not to mention production issues), regarding the first film, and the result is the overwhelming approval of X2 to the extent that most rate it as one of the best superhero films of all time . . . hence the anger when it becomes apparent that FOX is yet again making the same mistakes as it has done in the past--and rather than take the time to give the attention and time The Last Stand needs (thus benefiting and greatly improving the series, much like X2), FOX would rather put out a rushed project to make its money . . . and the effects are apparent, because they are the same mistakes made in the previous films . . . except some of them seem more apparent than ever, which shouldn't be the case on the third go around. At least, that's my take concerning part of the frustration.

 

[Obsidian]

Not what was done about it. Just that Magneto was in jail, and that Jean had been acting different. It was no different than the Cerebro incident not being addressed specifically in X3.

What much can be done about it? Many don't even know what exactly happened. Just a big bright "cloud" of light appeared out of nowhere and was headed for Ellis Island. Even if Magneto spilled details on what exactly happened, and he did to Stryker, Stryker managed to keep that hidden from the President and use that information in his crusade against mutants. It could've been treated as a big scare. Lives were lost in the Liberty Incident, but much more would've died in the Cerebro incident worldwide. The Cerebro incident should've been addressed in X3. The Liberty Island Incident was nothing more than a scare to the general public where only a few patrolmen and officers lost their lives (thanks to Sabretooth and Toad).

 

[danoyse]

I find the prior effects of the rushed production schedules via X-Men and X2 to play a part in the anger regarding The Last Stand. That's the difference between X-Men and The Last Stand. X-Men is the first in a saga in which mistakes are bound to be made (testing the waters if you will). X2, however, seeks to improve upon those fan issues, or mistakes (not to mention production issues), regarding the first film, and the result is the overwhelming approval of X2 to the extent that most rate it as one of the best superhero films of all time . . . hence the anger when it becomes apparent that FOX is yet again making the same mistakes as it has done in the past--and rather than take the time to give the attention and time The Last Stand needs (thus benefiting and greatly improving the series, much like X2), FOX would rather put out a rushed project to make its money . . . and the effects are apparent, because they are the same mistakes made in the previous films . . . except some of them seem more apparent than ever, which shouldn't be the case on the third go around. At least, that's my take concerning part of the frustration.

Agreed...clearly, the studio heads had their collective heads stuck up all the wrong places in the production of the film. I liked the movie, but I agreed with Moriarty's review at AICN...they dodged a bullet.

But each of the movies are guilty of having plotholes big enough to drive a truck through.

 

[BMM]

. . . If you call in a bomb threat, they clear the building...no matter how serious the call sounds. A news report in the movie mentions the summit will discuss the "mutant issue," and the Registration Act is a current controversial issue. Also, a group of mutants just took out a local train station...surely someone saw them leaving in a helicopter with the presidential seal on it???



I saw the movie with a friend whose brother is an NYPD cop. She thought it was hilarious.

The Government could call upon a number of law enforcement officers in an attempt to effectively stop or remove Magneto . . . although it wouldn't do them any good, as they are highly unprepared to take on the likes of the Magneto and the Brotherhood as is demonstrated at the train station where Magneto alone has no trouble dealing with a barrage of police officers. Bullets, guns, missiles, tanks, etc. are all rendered useless against the man who controls metal . . . nor did the Government have time to prepare for such an assault. The X-Men are the only ones equipped to stop the Brotherhood.

Regardless, it wouldn't matter if the world leaders were suddenly moved off of Ellis Island. His machine emits enough radiation to at least wipe out the entirety of New York City and everything in the surrounding radius. At least, that's how I saw it.

 

[danoyse]

What much can be done about it? Many don't even know what exactly happened. Just a big bright "cloud" of light appeared out of nowhere and was headed for Ellis Island. Even if Magneto spilled details on what exactly happened, and he did to Stryker, Stryker managed to keep that hidden from the President and use that information in his crusade against mutants. It could've been treated as a big scare. Lives were lost in the Liberty Incident, but much more would've died in the Cerebro incident worldwide. The Cerebro incident should've been addressed in X3. The Liberty Island Incident was nothing more than a scare to the general public where only a few patrolmen and officers lost their lives (thanks to Sabretooth and Toad).

That's the thing...he'd had "frequent" visits from William Stryker, where he probably confessed what he'd been planning to do. Xavier was a regular visitor, I'd imagine he'd helped the authorities unravel Magneto's plan--since his own school had been infiltrated, a student had been kidnapped and nearly killed.

Why else would they have been so hot on his trail at the beginning of X3? Because he killed the guards and escaped a plastic prison? No, because of what he'd done to get him into that prison in the first place.

With the mutant issue such a controversial subject...a mutant plotting a major attack that would have wiped out every world leader and most of NYC was more than just a "little scare," especially with the world so leery of the mutant population.

 

[danoyse]

The Government could call upon a number of law enforcement officers in an attempt to effectively stop or remove Magneto . . . although it wouldn't do them any good, as they are highly unprepared to take on the likes of the Magneto and the Brotherhood as is demonstrated at the train station where Magneto alone has no trouble dealing with a barrage of police officers. Bullets, guns, missiles, tanks, etc. are all rendered useless against the man who controls metal . . . nor did the Government have time to prepare for such an assault. The X-Men are the only ones equipped to stop the Brotherhood.

Regardless, it wouldn't matter if the world leaders were suddenly moved off of Ellis Island. His machine emits enough radiation to at least wipe out the entirety of New York City and everything in the surrounding radius. At least, that's how I saw it.

With a summit that big, with so many important people...they'd have more than a few law enforcement officials on hand to deal with a threat. I work in NYC...the city practically closed down for a week due to the security. When I went to Yankee Stadium in the weeks after 9/11, they had metal detectors at the gates and sharpshooters on the roof.

Sure, Magneto's powers would have effectively taken out the metal...but at the very least a warning would have been in order. Especially if he was sending his own people there so security wouldn't think they were part of the threat.

 

[BMM]

With a summit that big, with so many important people...they'd have more than a few law enforcement officials on hand to deal with a threat. I work in NYC...the city practically closed down for a week due to the security. When I went to Yankee Stadium in the weeks after 9/11, they had metal detectors at the gates and sharpshooters on the roof.

Sure, Magneto's powers would have effectively taken out the metal...but at the very least a warning would have been in order. Especially if he was sending his own people there so security wouldn't think they were part of the threat.

I understand. A warning here or there would be nice. Greedy superheroes, they never like to give warnings or involve additional law enforcement (except for maybe Batman). Doc. Ock could have been taken down in seconds if Spider-Man would have just properly informed law enforcement. I guess they just have to have all the glory.

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

agreed'd

 

[danoyse]

I understand. A warning here or there would be nice. Greedy superheroes, they never like to give warnings or involve additional law enforcement (except for maybe Batman). Doc. Ock could have been taken down in seconds if Spider-Man would have just properly informed law enforcement. I guess they just have to have all the glory.

Exactly! We wouldn't have any of these movies if they all just called the cops first. Go greedy superheroes!!

It's like the old Batman TV series...Batman would stop all the bad guys, and Commisioner Gordon would show up late because he was stuck in traffic.

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

^_^

 

[ntcrawler]

With a summit that big, with so many important people...they'd have more than a few law enforcement officials on hand to deal with a threat. I work in NYC...the city practically closed down for a week due to the security. When I went to Yankee Stadium in the weeks after 9/11, they had metal detectors at the gates and sharpshooters on the roof.

Yeah? See, this is what Magneto is counting on. The classic "homo sapiens and their guns" mentality. And guess what' they'd do squat against Magneto. This man if at his prime during WWII would have no problem taking on the Wehrmacht and winning. Weapons made of metal (which are essentially all weapons except for baseball bats and napalm) would be rendered not only useless against Magneto but dangerous to those who wield them. Like others said, only the X-men truly appreciated the threat and had the means necessary to take this guy down.