Young Justice Cartoon - Part 7

[Shazam]

Question is what kind of deal with the devil did arsenal make with Luthor.

The reason I ask this, why the hell would he just let him walk out of his grasp - with his tech.

I have no doubt, this seasons gonna having the underlying theme of double agents etc.

Black Manta, Artemis...and I won't be surprised, if Arsenal ends up turning to be a bad guy working for luthor for revenge on GA.

Remember the patch Lex gave Superboy to boost his powers?? There's always a catch. That's why Ollie should have been asking more questions!

 

[craigdbfan]

Wow I had no idea Young Justice was back.

Must go find the latest episode now.

 

[Shazam]

Did Lex program Roy with a "trigger" word that made Roy change?? He did that with Conner. He could have done a lot of things to Roy while he was unconsious. We did lose sight of Roy and Lex when the scene switched to GA and Clone outside the building.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Did Lex program Roy with a "trigger" word that made Roy change?? He did that with Conner. He could have done a lot of things to Roy while he was unconsious. We did lose sight of Roy and Lex when the scene switched to GA and Clone outside the building.

Maybe. But I think the trigger words only count towards clones like Red Arrow and Superboy.

 

[J the Drafter]

There are a couple things I've observed that have led me to form a theory about Arsenal.

1. Luthor made a robot arm, more powerful than Mercy's, for a guy who was stuck on ice and abandoned by the League/Team.

2. Arsenal was kept alive even though the Light had a steady source of his genetics.

3. Red Arrow was irrationally devoted to finding Arsenal. We know about the instructions placed in his brain, and M'Gann only confirmed that she sought out and deleted the command words, not the instructions.

4. Cheshire succeeded in ferreting out Arsenal's location when the League/Team spent four years trying and failed. Granted, Cheshire is likely to have contacts and resources the League doesn't, we don't know how qualified most of the League is for detective work, and we don't know how committed each member of the League/Team was to the search, but if the League and Team took this task seriously then the fact that Cheshire beat out the League's four-year employment of numbers, physical senses, mobility, and computer skills in their hunt for Arsenal is an impressive accomplishment.

My theory (well, hypothesis--thanks Chem 102) is that Arsenal had his mind tampered with while in captivity, and that Cheshire was fed his location. Red Arrow kept looking for Arsenal because the Light programmed that desire into Red Arrow's head. The goal was to plant a second mole within the League-Team confederation. It is quite strange for Luthor to have a robot arm made up for Arsenal in advance, and we haven't been given any explanation for why the Light chose to keep Arsenal.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

My theory (well, hypothesis--thanks Chem 102) is that Arsenal had his mind tampered with while in captivity, and that Cheshire was fed his location. Red Arrow kept looking for Arsenal because the Light programmed that desire into Red Arrow's head. The goal was to plant a second mole within the League-Team confederation. It is quite strange for Luthor to have a robot arm made up for Arsenal in advance, and we haven't been given any explanation for why the Light chose to keep Arsenal.

Roy already had all mind control removed when they found out he was the mole, though.

I think this plan was made in a shorter time. Roy was found on February 28. That would give plenty for Luthor to find out and develop the new arm by March 21, nearly a month later. Not to mention he can find things ahead of time. After all, he easily found out Roy left his hospital bed.

 

[J the Drafter]

OK, while I do agree about the expositional dialogue and the multitude of characters, saying that they abandoned what they set up in the first season is just false. They are addressing the main plot with the Leaguers' 16 missing hours, they addressed finding the real Roy Harper, etc. There are no major plot threads being ignored.

The writers ignored character threads aplenty however. We never received any follow-up on M'Gann's desperation to fit in and her fears of rejection; we got very little of Zatanna's grief over her father and her struggle to adjust to the Cave. (We did see a little of it, but only five- to ten-second scenes.) We weren't told at all why Artemis was so afraid of her friends discovering the truth about her family. Figuring out Artemis's motives was left to the reader. I'm not saying we can't come up with good reasons for Artemis's actions, only that the show shouldn't have left us guessing. Rocket was barely more than a cipher. Storywise, there was no reason for putting her in if she wasn't going to be fleshed out. Kaldur, as Dread has so often said, wasn't developed beyond being "the leader."

For starters, we have no idea why Kaldur decided to leave his home and become a superhero on the surface world. For the human members of the Team, the surface world is where they were born and raised. For Conner, the surface world was where Conner went to escape Cadmus. M'Gann hated her life on Mars. All of these people have a reason to value the topside of planet Earth.

Things are different for Kaldur. He was born and raised in Atlantis. We even see one of his friends there. So what is Kaldur doing on land? Why isn't he being a superhero in Atlantis?

We also don't have much of a sense of who Kaldur is outside of being a hero. We know Robin likes to joke around; that M'Gann likes to cook or watch "Hello Megan"; that Conner likes sulk about how brutally unfair his life is and do the couple thing with M'Gann; that Zatanna likes adventure and that she's a bit rebellious; that Artemis feuds with her mom and acts tough; and we even know that Wally likes run his mouth, knows and cares about Robin, and has an interest in science, although we rarely see this part of him. Wally does feel a little thin, and Raquel barely even registers as a character, so Kaldur isn't alone here. Nor is Kaldur completely void of non-superhero-related characteristics: he loves Tula, is best friends with Roy, and respects Aqualad's crown. We just haven't seen a lot of Kaldur in an off-duty setting.

Despite those issues, it's not just Aqualad who could have used more focus. Everyone could have stood to have their characters deepened, to varying amounts. Season one put a bit too much into the plot, though I've already said this piece in earlier threads.

Besides, the show hasn't lost focus on the main six characters from the first season. Zatanna and Rocket were fun, but much like Captain Marvel and Red Tornado, are only secondary characters, and the main focus on the six this season shows that. Zatanna had her sub-plot completed in the first season and Rocket didn't have one to introduce, and served as an organic way to play catch-up without putting in a tacky ""PREVIOUSLY ON..." segment for the finale.

I would have greatly preferred to have more focus put on Zatanna and Rocket than to have Robin II, Bumblebee, Batgirl, Cassie, Duncan and Wendy battling them for screen time. Jaime and Bart have actually received some focus, Bumblebee, Cassie and Batgirl at least had an episode to themselves, and La'Gann's future role is up in the air. Heck, the writers might have something planned for Robin II as well. I sure don't see any of that as important as giving Zatanna's storyline with her father proper attention, and if Raquel isn't going to take precence over the new characters, why was Raquel shown onscreen before them in the first place?

If we're going to start complaining about the extra heroes not being developed, we might as well start complaining that all the extra heroes in JLU or every single guest-star in Brave and the Bold weren't fully fleshed-out characters.

I have not seen much of The Brave and the Bold, but the fact that JLU had more characters than they could properly handle was one of the show's flaws. I believe the issue for both Young Justice:Invasion and Justice League Unlimited is that these extraneous characters were introduced in the first place. Are Robin II, Bumblebee, Batgirl, Cassie, Duncan or Wendy going to affect the plot in essential or interesting ways?

 

[J the Drafter]

Roy already had all mind control removed when they found out he was the mole, though.

I think this plan was made in a shorter time. Roy was found on February 28. That would give plenty for Luthor to find out and develop the new arm by March 21, nearly a month later. Not to mention he can find things ahead of time. After all, he easily found out Roy left his hospital bed.

That's probably the safe way to bet, and it seems reasonable. Arsenal's survival and recovery both seem fishy to me, though.

 

[charl_huntress]

That's probably the safe way to bet, and it seems reasonable. Arsenal's survival and recovery both seem fishy to me, though.

Agreed. Add that with him just casually walking out with the arm...

 

[Lencho01]

Some art...

http://philbourassa.deviantart.com/gallery/

Young Justice is back! A lot of people have been asking for this model, so here she is.

When I sat down to design Cassie Sandsmark for YJ, I realized I had to find the right balance between cuteness and toughness. It's a miniature version of the challenge a designer faces when trying to draw Wonder Woman, who herself needs to perfectly blend the seemingly (though not actually) mutually exclusive traits of power and femininity. Anyway, this is what I came up with, actually this was my first take. It was approved.
Girl power!

http://jerome-k-moore.deviantart.com/gallery/

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE, Happy Harbor Halloween Party kids. Pencil, Digital color.

In honor of the 9/29 return to the air of all-new episodes of YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION, I am posting an old set of character designs from the previous season, never before presented and freshly colored (another Photoshop exercise).

In episode 18, "Secrets," the students of Happy Harbor High pattern their Halloween Dance Party after a superhero theme. Although I had a little too much fun designing costumes beyond this theme, most of the concepts made it through to the screen intact as background filler.

Here we have all girls, of various ethnicity, sporting store-bought or homemade outfits based on their favorite hero or cartoon character. Grateful acknowledgement, as always, is made to the style set by Lead Character Designer, Phil Bourassa.

Thanks for viewing!

*All designs are the exclusive property of DC Comics, and WB Animation.

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION, Wendy Harris. Pencil, Digital color.

In the Season Two episode, "Satisfaction," we get our first glimpse at Wendy Harris five years later as she consoles Conner Kent (Superboy) on his birthday. As I aged her design, I wanted to keep certain aspects that I considered definitive about the Wendy character. She was always an attractive girl, as well as independent and strong-willed. I decided to go even shorter with her hair, giving her a stylish and sassy cut. The clothes are trendy yet timeless, balancing between sexy, and the tomboy she always was. The open midriff was later altered to better reflect the cooler time of year in which this episode takes place.

As always, these colors do not reflect the final version used on screen. As part of my exercises in Photoshop, I am presenting my character designs with the colors I envisioned on my own. Grateful recognition goes to Lead Character Designer Phil Bourassa for the art style he established for the characters in the Young Justice show.

Cheers!

*Wendy Harris and all images are the copyrighted property of Warner Bros Animation.

For comparison of her old look...

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE, Wendy Harris, and Marvin White. Pencil, Digital Color.

Well, with the accidental airing of the episode, "Targets," as well as its screening at San Diego Comic Con 2011, I suppose it's okay to post the designs for Wendy, and Marvin. I was assigned the task of adapting these characters from the old SUPER FRIENDS show, adjusting their original style (which was a bit more "cartoony") to more closely match the one set by Lead Character Designer, Phil Bourassa. Marvin always resembled Shaggy, from SCOOBY-DOO, so I preserved elements of that look for this version. Wendy seemed to take after Daphne, consistently striking a sexy stance in default position, and so I emulated that for this 3/4 turn instead of the standard pose.
As always, these are my own color selections, and they do not reflect the final selections used in the actual show.

Thanks for viewing!

*All characters depicted are the property of Warner Bros, and DC Comics

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION, Lex Luthor Painting. Pencil, Digital color.

In the Season Two episode, "Satisfaction," Lex Luthor and his bodyguard Mercy Graves [link] come under attack at the LexCorps offices from the real Roy Harper. Behind Luthor's desk is an enormous self-portrait which conceals the entrance to a cache where the tycoon retrieves a case containing an item that may lead to Harper's-- satisfaction.

Yet again, I was enlisted to create an image of a character in the show (rather than a character design) which would directly appear on screen, however briefly. Of all the portrait images I rendered, this one turned out to be the most difficult due to the tighter time frame, and my own learning curve. The assignment seemed like an afterthought, as it was added to my plate late in the game. After some quick discussion, show director Doug Murphy sketched out a rough idea of what he wanted, and I took it from there, careful to adhere to his concept before going a few extra miles on the background elements. It was important to depict Luthor as an egotist, reminiscent of Napoleon. He poses near a globe as if he is master of the world. I used the long curving lines of the bound drapes to direct the viewer's eye toward Luthor. The large heavy rope/cords helped to subtly suggest Luthor's obsession with cold restraint, and a manipulative control over others.

The design of the Lex Luthor character is by Phil Bourassa. These colors are my own, and do not reflect those used in the final version on screen.

Cheers!

*Lex Luthor, and all images are the copyrighted property of DC Comics, and Warner Bros Animation.

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION, Blue Beetle Hologram. Pencil, Digital color.

In the Second Season episode, "Satisfaction," a few new members of The Team visit a solemn grotto deep within the Mount Justice headquarters where they find a holographic shrine dedicated to fallen heroes. Among these holograms are images of the slain Artemis, Tula, Jason Todd/Robin, and the original DCU Blue Beetle, Ted Kord.

The Ted Kord Blue Beetle is my favorite version of the character, and I used the designs by my friend Steve Rude as a main source of inspiration (as well as those by Paris Cullins).

I realize that realistic continuity is the double-edged sword that provides us with fictional characters and worlds of more dimension, as well as providing fresh approaches to those classic properties that endure through the generations. But I'm not a big fan of "legacy" characters, as certain heroes are frivolously killed off to be replaced by other people who take up their mantle. While there is some romance to it, too often there is an exploitation attached that feels cheap, a tawdry sensationalism that merely panders to commercialistic trends, or political correctivism. In the stubborn purist view, there is only one Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Captain America, and only one Blue Beetle: Ted Kord. Hahaha!

*Blue Beetle, Ted Kord, and all related images are the copyrighted property of DC Comics, and Warner Bros Animation.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

The writers ignored character threads aplenty however. We never received any follow-up on M'Gann's desperation to fit in and her fears of rejection; we got very little of Zatanna's grief over her father and her struggle to adjust to the Cave. (We did see a little of it, but only five- to ten-second scenes.) We weren't told at all why Artemis was so afraid of her friends discovering the truth about her family. Figuring out Artemis's motives was left to the reader. I'm not saying we can't come up with good reasons for Artemis's actions, only that the show shouldn't have left us guessing. Rocket was barely more than a cipher. Storywise, there was no reason for putting her in if she wasn't going to be fleshed out. Kaldur, as Dread has so often said, wasn't developed beyond being "the leader."

We saw M'gann overcoming her fear of rejection. She saw that the team accepted her and her true form, and that her appearance was no reason to keep such a secret. It was a resolved arc. We saw Zatanna being upset a couple of times over what happened over her father. We even saw her making a desperate attempt to free him again in the finale, nearly two months later. Those scenes speak for themselves as to show how she's still struggling with her grief.

We got bits of characterization for Rocket: She's blunt, brief, and brutally honest, even more than the others. Not to mention she respects sidekicks in general more than the others. While she was not the best-developed character, she's NOT a main character, as explained before. She served as an organic way to catch-up to the new views on the finale, while also serving as a homage to the Milestone heroes and a way to take down the brainwashed Wonder Woman.

As for Artemis, we saw her overcome her insecurity over her background. Why should we have it spelled out for us why is she afraid the others will find out about her background? It's pretty obvious she thought they would begin to distrust or shun her. It's not a huge leap. I like it when a show actually engages me as a viewer, and lets me think for myself in how to arrive to such conclusions. This isn't a show that will hold your hand and spell out the obvious, like Ultimate Spider-Man.

Kaldur had a smaller arc than most, but he still had one. He was on top of the game and ready to be leader, sure, but in the premiere, he was also submissive and too much of a follower. He later steps up and takes leadership from Robin when he is needed, learns to stop being less nostalgic over his home, and becomes more assertive when the rest of the Team get mad at him. Again, not a bigger one that most, but to claim that he is a flat character is wrong.

For starters, we have no idea why Kaldur decided to leave his home and become a superhero on the surface world. For the human members of the Team, the surface world is where they were born and raised. For Conner, the surface world was where Conner went to escape Cadmus. M'Gann hated her life on Mars. All of these people have a reason to value the topside of planet Earth.

Things are different for Kaldur. He was born and raised in Atlantis. We even see one of his friends there. So what is Kaldur doing on land? Why isn't he being a superhero in Atlantis?

Maybe due to loyalty to his King? A large sense of duty and willingness to lead? That was pretty much established. We might as well ask why did M'gann left Mars to be a crime fighter, or since Kaldur is more or less an equivalent of a young man in the military, why do soldiers go overseas to fight? Why does Aquaman even bother being a superhero in the surface as well?

We also don't have much of a sense of who Kaldur is outside of being a hero. We know Robin likes to joke around; that M'Gann likes to cook or watch "Hello Megan"; that Conner likes sulk about how brutally unfair his life is and do the couple thing with M'Gann; that Zatanna likes adventure and that she's a bit rebellious; that Artemis feuds with her mom and acts tough; and we even know that Wally likes run his mouth, knows and cares about Robin, and has an interest in science, although we rarely see this part of him. Wally does feel a little thin, and Raquel barely even registers as a character, so Kaldur isn't alone here. Nor is Kaldur completely void of non-superhero-related characteristics: he loves Tula, is best friends with Roy, and respects Aqualad's crown. We just haven't seen a lot of Kaldur in an off-duty setting.

This one I actually do agree on. We only saw Kaldur hanging around with the others, but never home.

Despite those issues, it's not just Aqualad who could have used more focus. Everyone could have stood to have their characters deepened, to varying amounts. Season one put a bit too much into the plot, though I've already said this piece in earlier threads.

You seem to forget the fact that they're STILL developing in this season. M'gann is more brutal and dangerous because she lost someone and her earlier, reckless use of her powers in season one was not questioned, Conner is more mellow and calm thanks to Clark's acceptance of him, but still figuring things out with M'gann. Wally is more insecure of his lack of power due to Impulse's appearance and even a bit bitter from the hero life in general. Not to mention how this whole undercover deal will affect Dick, Artemis, and Kaldur. They're STILL the main focus of the show. The others....less so.

Heck, the writers might have something planned for Robin II as well.

And you know this how? They've confirmed that Jason Todd will NOT appear this season. And considering how similar he is to Arsenal right now, it's probably for the best to avoid him.

I sure don't see any of that as important as giving Zatanna's storyline with her father proper attention,

They already did show it. Her insecurity led to her losing her father, she stubbornly and in grief tried and failed to help him. That's it. There's really not much they can do with it, and that's a pretty meaty arc for someone who's a supporting character. If she gets another arc, great. But there's no use revisiting something that can't yield more result.

and if Raquel isn't going to take precence over the new characters, why was Raquel shown onscreen before them in the first place?

Maybe because the producers liked her and wanted to use her ASAP? To establish her as one of the older wave of teen heroes, like in the comics? To provide for an organic tool for exposition for the finale? To find a way to defeat Wonder Woman? All of the above?

I have not seen much of The Brave and the Bold, but the fact that JLU had more characters than they could properly handle was one of the show's flaws. I believe the issue for both Young Justice:Invasion and Justice League Unlimited is that these extraneous characters were introduced in the first place. Are Robin II, Bumblebee, Batgirl, Cassie, Duncan or Wendy going to affect the plot in essential or interesting ways?

Fair enough. At least your critique is consistent. But as to the other character affecting the plot, it's still too early to call. But again, you're looking WAY too much into Jason Todd's cameo.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I sympathize the current Beetle

 

[Dread]

Cool artwork and great discussion all around.

My take on one criticism of the episode is

Spoiler

while Speedy/Arsenal had a lot of skills and a lot of motivation, he was abducted at the very start of his masked career. By this I mean that even with all the skill and anger in the world, he can still be green and prone to making decisions that may not be wise. He's essentially lost 8 years of his life and may also be a bit immature for his age.

Also,

Spoiler

remember that Luthor is one of "The Light" and everything that happens goes according to plan (or at the very least they adapt very quickly). Luthor was aware of Speedy's liberation by Red Arrow & Cheshire; one can imagine Ra's letting him know. This of course assuming that whatever downside to Speedy's gift is the arm itself. Considering that CADMUS has a habit of putting in WEAPON X style mental programming into their clones or other subjects, I'm not yet convinced that Speedy doesn't have any inside his head. I mean, Superboy was only 16 weeks old and he already had "red sun" implanted as a trigger word. Speedy was in CADMUS custody for years and I imagine precautions were made; he was kept alive for a reason. Maybe he was a plan B or C if Red Arrow's ploy failed (or he died in some unexpected battle before it came to pass) and he was a trump card to play. After all, "The Light" may have estimated that the League would eventually promote a sidekick into the League for infiltration, they'd have no clue how long it would take and have to prepare for complications.

While I agree it is a dramatic shift for Speedy to go from suicide mission to accepting a tainted gift from Luthor for a new arm, I imagine it is going somewhere.

I do agree with some that the sheer number of "supporting characters" can be a distraction from the "six leads". Going down rabbit trails can be fine for serialized fiction but when they multiply to an extent at a rapid pace, one can sometimes lose track of the core path. Team shows always have the temptation to go whole hog on cameos and to a degree "Young Justice" has succumbed to it, although not to the extreme of some other shows.

To a degree Kaldur's new subplot merely covers over the fact that his character seems to exist to either be leader or perform missions (in which he also leads stuff), but at least it is an interesting subplot. Superboy and Megan usually get consistent focus, and Artemis has a major role to play. Nightwing has a vital role; I'm not sure if Wally's path is leading where some predict it will with Impulse subbing for him, but we'll see. Regardless, the narrative itself will be cracking. Whether I or other viewers will get "SATISFACTION" towards certain characters may be subjective.

 

[Dugath]

Cool artwork and great discussion all around.

My take on one criticism of the episode is

Spoiler

while Speedy/Arsenal had a lot of skills and a lot of motivation, he was abducted at the very start of his masked career. By this I mean that even with all the skill and anger in the world, he can still be green and prone to making decisions that may not be wise. He's essentially lost 8 years of his life and may also be a bit immature for his age.

Spoiler

Just thought I would point out He did not "lose" 8 years, he was cryogenically frozen (he did not Age).

 

[charl_huntress]

Cool artwork and great discussion all around.

My take on one criticism of the episode is

Spoiler

while Speedy/Arsenal had a lot of skills and a lot of motivation, he was abducted at the very start of his masked career. By this I mean that even with all the skill and anger in the world, he can still be green and prone to making decisions that may not be wise. He's essentially lost 8 years of his life and may also be a bit immature for his age.

.

Great review Dread!

My question is what does Green Arrow think about himself? I may be the only one who was really moved by his talk that he feels he is not a good mentor. And, judging by the facts, he has had one protege lost to cloning, didn't recognize the sidekick who was a clone, and lost Artemis (though that's obviously a lie). What does he think about himself? I want to see more of this.

 

[J the Drafter]

We saw M'gann overcoming her fear of rejection. She saw that the team accepted her and her true form, and that her appearance was no reason to keep such a secret. It was a resolved arc.

We saw M'Gann admit the truth, but a twenty second confession scene feels too short for an issue that started from her life on Mars and continued for almost twelve months she knew the Team. I liked "Image"--I thought it did a nice job showing M'Gann's fears--but I would have also liked to see some of this racist Martian society that made M'Gann ashamed of her skin color. Furthermore, it's been five years since the confession and M'Gann is still in the shape of a green-skinned humanoid. How, exactly, has M'Gann's admission changed the way she acts or thinks?

We saw Zatanna being upset a couple of times over what happened over her father. We even saw her making a desperate attempt to free him again in the finale, nearly two months later. Those scenes speak for themselves as to show how she's still struggling with her grief.

We saw small bits of it while other parts of the plot were also going on. I get that the show couldn't have focused in detail on Zatanna's mourning process, but I would have liked at least a one to one-and-a-half minute scene of Zatanna feeling overwhelmed and sad. All of what the show gave us can be measured in seconds.

We got bits of characterization for Rocket: She's blunt, brief, and brutally honest, even more than the others. Not to mention she respects sidekicks in general more than the others. While she was not the best-developed character, she's NOT a main character, as explained before. She served as an organic way to catch-up to the new views on the finale, while also serving as a homage to the Milestone heroes and a way to take down the brainwashed Wonder Woman.

The only thing we saw of Rocket was that she was sassy. "Blunt, brief, and brutally honest" may be inferrable, but I never got the sense that that was what the show was telling us.

As for Artemis, we saw her overcome her insecurity over her background. Why should we have it spelled out for us why is she afraid the others will find out about her background? It's pretty obvious she thought they would begin to distrust or shun her. It's not a huge leap. I like it when a show actually engages me as a viewer, and lets me think for myself in how to arrive to such conclusions. This isn't a show that will hold your hand and spell out the obvious, like Ultimate Spider-Man.

A story should walk its viewers through why a character feels things unless it has a very good reason to do otherwise. This reduces ambiguity and it avoids laziness in constructing characters. What I'd have liked is for Artemis to have a response to the question "Why would your background matter to us?" It doesn't need to be a logical response, just a response that makes sense to Artemis. Without that, I can make a reasonable guess as to why Artemis conceals her family ties, but a reasonable guess is not the same thing as explicitly establisihng a fact in the show. I want my entertainment to walk me through how characters feel unless the narrative has something to gain by keeping that a secret. (Wanting to know how a character feels isn't the same thing as wanting to know why they did things. I don't need to be told that a businesswoman who gets fifty million dollars on her rival's death murdered her rival out of greed. I do want the narrative to flat out state why Artemis is ashamed of belonging to a family of criminals. Is it because she thinks her friends wouldn't want to associate with a criminal's daughter? Is it because she's embarrassed that her skills come from an evil man? Is it because her dad made her kill people when she was younger and she hates the blood on her hands? The narrative never quite makes it clear, and that's a problem.

Kaldur had a smaller arc than most, but he still had one. He was on top of the game and ready to be leader, sure, but in the premiere, he was also submissive and too much of a follower. He later steps up and takes leadership from Robin when he is needed, learns to stop being less nostalgic over his home, and becomes more assertive when the rest of the Team get mad at him. Again, not a bigger one that most, but to claim that he is a flat character is wrong.

I said he didn't have an arc outside being leader, not specifically that he was flat.

Maybe due to loyalty to his King? A large sense of duty and willingness to lead? That was pretty much established. We might as well ask why did M'gann left Mars to be a crime fighter, or since Kaldur is more or less an equivalent of a young man in the military, why do soldiers go overseas to fight? Why does Aquaman even bother being a superhero in the surface as well?

Maybe's are not a sign of strong characterization. We already know that Mars is a ****** place for White Martians, and M'Gann has expressed her unhappiness with her birthworld. If Kaldur is on land because he was assigned there as a soldier, that's a valid reason for him to be there. But nothing about Kaldur's motives for being on the surface are so much as hinted at. Aquaman isn't one of the main characters on the show, so the reasons he has for doing things is much less important.

This one I actually do agree on. We only saw Kaldur hanging around with the others, but never home.

I'm glad we found common ground somewhere.

You seem to forget the fact that they're STILL developing in this season. M'gann is more brutal and dangerous because she lost someone and her earlier, reckless use of her powers in season one was not questioned, Conner is more mellow and calm thanks to Clark's acceptance of him, but still figuring things out with M'gann. Wally is more insecure of his lack of power due to Impulse's appearance and even a bit bitter from the hero life in general. Not to mention how this whole undercover deal will affect Dick, Artemis, and Kaldur. They're STILL the main focus of the show. The others....less so.

I was hoping that the writers would examine and work from the plot threads established in the first season, instead of adding new ones. There are plenty of things you could do with M'Gann's natural form for instance: as a humanoid M'Gann has a fully human range of facial expressions, even though her natural face isn't nearly as mobile, and she can vocalize in her humanoid form even though doesn't seem able do so in her natural state. That suggests to me that M'Gann practiced her sad, happy, worried, amused etc. faces and happy, anxious, amused etc. tones of voice and consciously projects them when communicating. That puts every bit of M'Gann's bodily and vocal communication in a new light. (Think of the blush M'Gann gave when Conner took off her shirt. We know now that that was a deliberate action on M'Gann's part.) They could have showed Kaldur on one of his off days. They could have given us a greater look at the Team's civilian lives--including school--or shown Conner and Clark growing closer. They could have followed up on the romantic lives of their new couples. Granted, all of this together would have prevented the plot from having any room to move forward. But some of it would have been nice.

Not to overfocus on M'Gann, but knowing her natural form also raises the question of why she's attracted to a human in the first place. It seems a shame to ignore all that and have M'Gann once again walking around in green-skinned humanoid form as though she never realized her teammates accepted her as a person.

I would also contend that your statements about M'Gann, Conner and Wally are suppositions, not facts. Reasonable suppositions, but suppositions nonetheless.

And you know this how? They've confirmed that Jason Todd will NOT appear this season. And considering how similar he is to Arsenal right now, it's probably for the best to avoid him.

I should have stated that I meant Tim Drake. I guess I still think of Nightwing as Robin a bit.

They already did show it. Her insecurity led to her losing her father, she stubbornly and in grief tried and failed to help him. That's it. There's really not much they can do with it, and that's a pretty meaty arc for someone who's a supporting character. If she gets another arc, great. But there's no use revisiting something that can't yield more result.

I get that fanfiction, since it isn't bound by production schedules, limited episodes per season or a need to please execs in order to stay in production, has opportunities that a TV show does not. (I also get that fanfic quality varies widely. Please bear with me.) Still, the cartoon doesn't hold a sliver of the emotional depth "Some Sort of Truth" portrays (http://archiveofourown.org/works/373731). I understand that fleshing out Zatanna's grief into a near month-long ordeal would have thrown too much focus on Zatanna, but a one minute or one-and-a-half minute scene in the cartoon would have brought the writers much closer to what the above fanfic accomplished.

Maybe because the producers liked her and wanted to use her ASAP? To establish her as one of the older wave of teen heroes, like in the comics? To provide for an organic tool for exposition for the finale? To find a way to defeat Wonder Woman? All of the above?

Introducing and then almost immediately discarding a character--especially a character who needs continued development--is poor writing. It would have been more natural for the writers to continue a developing a character they introduced, instead of dropping her in the corner. Now, the writers may return to her, if the scene with the girls talking about the bridal shower is any indication. There's still more for us to see about Rocket's future.

Fair enough. At least your critique is consistent. But as to the other character affecting the plot, it's still too early to call. But again, you're looking WAY too much into Jason Todd's cameo.

Drake, Batgirl, Bumblebee and/or Cassie might be central to the plot, though they aren't tied to the Reach like Jaime is, they don't have mysterious missions from the future like Bart does, and they didn't get an episode that promised interesting followups like Arsenal did. Duncan and Wendy aren't superheroes and they didn't even get a focus episode like Cassie, Batgirl and Bumblebee got. They don't have romantic entanglements with one of the main characters either, like La"gann does. (Though La'Gann's personality has so far consisted of him being rash, and being jealous of M'Gann's affections.) Of course no one knows what will happen with these characters, but they, along with Rocket and Zatanna, have shown the least evidence of being important to long-term events.

 

[Dread]

Spoiler

Just thought I would point out He did not "lose" 8 years, he was cryogenically frozen (he did not Age).

You're right in that he didn't physically age. However, everyone else around him did, and he still has the same level of experience as when he was captured. It is akin to someone capturing Dick Grayson at the start of his tenure as a sidekick (back when random thugs could occasionally surprise him) and then he was thrust into the future with a lot of motivation but no more actual experience.

Great review Dread!

My question is what does Green Arrow think about himself? I may be the only one who was really moved by his talk that he feels he is not a good mentor. And, judging by the facts, he has had one protege lost to cloning, didn't recognize the sidekick who was a clone, and lost Artemis (though that's obviously a lie). What does he think about himself? I want to see more of this.

Clearly Ollie holds himself personally responsible for the fate all of his sidekicks have befallen; it was no accident that he found himself in the hospital's rectory. While Batman has historically mourned the loss of Jason, Ollie did seem fairly broken until Red Arrow bucked him a little. I imagine we will see more of this subplot in later episodes. Just another subplot for the pile.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Cool artwork and great discussion all around.

My take on one criticism of the episode is

Spoiler

while Speedy/Arsenal had a lot of skills and a lot of motivation, he was abducted at the very start of his masked career. By this I mean that even with all the skill and anger in the world, he can still be green and prone to making decisions that may not be wise. He's essentially lost 8 years of his life and may also be a bit immature for his age.

Makes me wonder how he took down Merci, or how R.A would take her down

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

We saw M'Gann admit the truth, but a twenty second confession scene feels too short for an issue that started from her life on Mars and continued for almost twelve months she knew the Team. I liked "Image"--I thought it did a nice job showing M'Gann's fears--but I would have also liked to see some of this racist Martian society that made M'Gann ashamed of her skin color. Furthermore, it's been five years since the confession and M'Gann is still in the shape of a green-skinned humanoid. How, exactly, has M'Gann's admission changed the way she acts or thinks?

I do agree that it would have been nice to see more of the Martian society, but at the same time, how could that have fit ANY of the episodes, especially when much of her background was kept a secret from her viewer? We have the character talk to us several times about her treatment, and considering her last time discussing it was during her true reveal, there's nothing to imply she was lying.

She keeps her "Megan Morse" appearance mainly because that's how she really thinks of herself. She mentions it as such during her true reveal. She sees herself as "Megan" and as "Miss Martian", an extension of "Megan", but she prefers her green humanoid form, and that's a decision that should be respected. Someone on Ask Greg made a comparison to a transgender and Greg found it as valid: "Megan" is now her self-image, and it is her decision to stick by it.

We saw small bits of it while other parts of the plot were also going on. I get that the show couldn't have focused in detail on Zatanna's mourning process, but I would have liked at least a one to one-and-a-half minute scene of Zatanna feeling overwhelmed and sad. All of what the show gave us can be measured in seconds.

So you would have preferred to slow down the plot and the pacing just to give us redundant information on a character's feelings? We saw PLENTY of that in those small moments. A viewer can infer what she's going through. Sometimes, less is more, and those small moments can be more effective than overly long, spoon-fed information about it.

The only thing we saw of Rocket was that she was sassy. "Blunt, brief, and brutally honest" may be inferrable, but I never got the sense that that was what the show was telling us.

Rocket was pointing out the fact that she got Icon into the superhero life and she should be by the League. While that may be true, it's not necessarily something that should be said out loud. Her flirting with Aqualad is also very obvious. She's honest about what she wants and is not afraid to display it.

Why should the show tell? Isn't it better when the show SHOWS that? This seems to be in conflict with your desire to SEE the Martian society, rather than just TALK about it.

A story should walk its viewers through why a character feels things unless it has a very good reason to do otherwise. This reduces ambiguity and it avoids laziness in constructing characters. What I'd have liked is for Artemis to have a response to the question "Why would your background matter to us?" It doesn't need to be a logical response, just a response that makes sense to Artemis. Without that, I can make a reasonable guess as to why Artemis conceals her family ties, but a reasonable guess is not the same thing as explicitly establisihng a fact in the show. I want my entertainment to walk me through how characters feel unless the narrative has something to gain by keeping that a secret. (Wanting to know how a character feels isn't the same thing as wanting to know why they did things. I don't need to be told that a businesswoman who gets fifty million dollars on her rival's death murdered her rival out of greed. I do want the narrative to flat out state why Artemis is ashamed of belonging to a family of criminals. Is it because she thinks her friends wouldn't want to associate with a criminal's daughter? Is it because she's embarrassed that her skills come from an evil man? Is it because her dad made her kill people when she was younger and she hates the blood on her hands? The narrative never quite makes it clear, and that's a problem.

The problem with that type of mindset is that in order for the show to spoon-feed and redundantly spell it out for the audience is that it will make dialogue and character moments and decisions feel less realistic and organic, and more artificial just so a character exactly describes how he or she feels. If the dialogue is good enough, it should SHOW you things about the character, and should rely on the viewer being savvy enough to put it together. And the show demonstrated how the villain life affected her, such as her mention of her dad dressing her up while unconscious and putting her on tests, her and her sister being put to fight, Paula Crock's disability, and her own sister running away because of it.

Not to mention that she's a teenager. MOST of them deal with some sort of insecurity, and it would be natural for her to be her family. Considering we saw how the others didn't mind, it was a self-inflicted injury, and one that healed once she received acceptance.

I was hoping that the writers would examine and work from the plot threads established in the first season, instead of adding new ones.

Most of the ones shown in season two are extensions of the ones from season one.

There are plenty of things you could do with M'Gann's natural form for instance: as a humanoid M'Gann has a fully human range of facial expressions, even though her natural face isn't nearly as mobile, and she can vocalize in her humanoid form even though doesn't seem able do so in her natural state. That suggests to me that M'Gann practiced her sad, happy, worried, amused etc. faces and happy, anxious, amused etc. tones of voice and consciously projects them when communicating. That puts every bit of M'Gann's bodily and vocal communication in a new light. (Think of the blush M'Gann gave when Conner took off her shirt. We know now that that was a deliberate action on M'Gann's part.)

Again, she is not comfortable as a White Martian. She got over the fact that she should be AFRAID of that form, and that her friends would reject her because of it. Her fears were confirmed to be baseless. But it doesn't mean she's going to embrace something she was never comfortable with.

or shown Conner and Clark growing closer.

Admittedly, this is one that did bother me. In one of the comic tie-in stories, Conner and M'Gann visit Bialya again, and Clark stops by in order to report on the Bialyian situation, and introduces himself as Clark Kent to Connor. This scene could have fit great in "Image" with some re-working, and made Superman's introduction as Clark Kent in the season finale more meaningful.

I would also contend that your statements about M'Gann, Conner and Wally are suppositions, not facts. Reasonable suppositions, but suppositions nonetheless.

How the hell are they "suppositions"? They are based on things we SAW in the show. We've seen M'Gann abuse her Martian abilities in the show, such as when she liberally smashed the Mr. Twister robot, when she brain-blasted the entire team JUST to keep her secret, or when she was making fun of Parasite for exposing him to fire. The fact that NONE of this is condemned and that her situation worsened five years later, and also because of a trauma via Marie Logan's death, doesn't seem like a huge leap. Same with Conner and his happy brotherhood with Superman and his sulking about M'Gann. Or Wally seeming resentful at Impulse's superior abilities. These are things we actually SAW. They weren't ambiguous in the slightest.

Would you have preferred to see chibi versions of the characters stop the show itself and explain to the viewer exactly how they felt?

I get that fanfiction, since it isn't bound by production schedules, limited episodes per season or a need to please execs in order to stay in production, has opportunities that a TV show does not. (I also get that fanfic quality varies widely. Please bear with me.) Still, the cartoon doesn't hold a sliver of the emotional depth "Some Sort of Truth" portrays (http://archiveofourown.org/works/373731). I understand that fleshing out Zatanna's grief into a near month-long ordeal would have thrown too much focus on Zatanna, but a one minute or one-and-a-half minute scene in the cartoon would have brought the writers much closer to what the above fanfic accomplished.

I don't know. I found her sad attempt while in the middle of a MAJOR mission to be rather sad. Not something to bring me to tears, but still tragic.

Introducing and then almost immediately discarding a character--especially a character who needs continued development--is poor writing. It would have been more natural for the writers to continue a developing a character they introduced, instead of dropping her in the corner. Now, the writers may return to her, if the scene with the girls talking about the bridal shower is any indication. There's still more for us to see about Rocket's future.

How did they discard her character immediately? We saw her in the season premiere and learned something about her, didn't we? Again, she's not a MAIN character. She doesn't have the luxury of having the spotlight on her as the main six do. She's no different than Captain Marvel or Red Tornado. Yet, where are the complaints about THEM?

And yes, there's still more to see about Rocket and her future. She may not be a main character and her development is not as big as one, but it doesn't mean she will be neglected either.

They don't have romantic entanglements with one of the main characters either, like La"gann does. (Though La'Gann's personality has so far consisted of him being rash, and being jealous of M'Gann's affections.)

I would consider his large sense of loyalty to be another one of his characteristics. He is very loyal to M'Gann to a fault, is very loyal to his King, and is very excited to work with him and other heroes, and seems the angriest at Kaldur for "betraying" his team.

 

[Dread]

I must say it is refreshing to see some epic quote debates which don't involve me.

Makes me wonder how he took down Merci, or how R.A would take her down

Spoiler

It helped that Speedy was using state-of-the-art weapons as well as was fighting Mercy alone in an area where he could effectively hide and regroup when an attack backfired (as it did several times). In that regard his small size was an advantage, allowing him to hide under and behind cars easier. If more of Luthor's minions had been in the area during that battle, it could have been far more problematic.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I must say it is refreshing to see some epic quote debates which don't involve me.

Enjoy it while it lasts. We both know it won't be long before you and Nygma argue over Wally again.

 

[J the Drafter]

@GamerSlyRatchet I intend to respond to your response, but I plan to spend the next few days making sure I stay caught up on homework. Sorry to postpone our debate.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

@GamerSlyRatchet I intend to respond to your response, but I plan to spend the next few days making sure I stay caught up on homework. Sorry to postpone our debate.

Hehe, that's cool. I've got some school work to catch up to as well. t:

 

[Dread]

Enjoy it while it lasts. We both know it won't be long before you and Nygma argue over Wally again.

True. Although with new episodes coming, we have new material to chew on for the moment.

World's Finest just posted interviews with the producers of the show, Brandon Vietti and Greg Weisman.

Vietti: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2...ses-the-new-season-of-young-justice-invasion/

Weisman: http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2...iscusses-the-world-of-young-justice-invasion/

Among the tidbits is the confirmation that the 3-eyed being from the SDCC 2012 footage was indeed Despero, and not Trigon as some guessed.

 

[Midnight Black]

Fan of Young Justice so I have a few questions.

1. Has the new season started. I noticed last week's episode was new and not sure of the week before, but is it definitely back or were those just a few fillers that shows sometimes do?

2. Since Wonder girl's design resembles Supergirl's of Superman the Animated series do you think we will see Supergirl or Powergirl appearing on YJ or do you think that having Wondergirl is too close to having someone like Supergirl already, especially given that there is a Superboy?

3. Anyone else happy that the last episode acknowledged the fallen heroes? I was wondering if they were going to acknowledge that Jason Todd has existed in this universe and apparently they did which is great IMO.

4. Also, anyone else hoping for another flash/speedsters episode with all of them. Perhaps we can see Wally even advancing and surpassing them all as he does in the comics. Additionally, I can't wait to see a Batman family episode where Tim brings up Jason for whatever reason.