Your top 5 things that needs to be "fixed" for the Batman reboot

[shauner111]

Hmm. I think on a personal level I can care less if the film crashes financially as long as a Batman movie feels like it was made with passion put into it and it was quality and not feeling like the same thing over and over.

But of course I want it to make money. But whether it does or not doesn't affect me unless a sequel were to be canceled. That would suck. But it all comes down to creative choices over pumping out a fun popcorn movie that has no substance just so it can make money, sell toys, cups, and get more sequels. I would sacrifice all that for quality. Because quality ALWAYS should be the priority over "quantity".

 

[regwec]

No, and reductio ad absurdum is not a cogent form of argument in this instance.

I am aware that films need to earn a profit, and that the funding required as consideration for the nexus of contracts involved would not be raised without the promise of a good return. A good film, however, should allow you to escape this reflection every so often. A movie that feels like an advert is no pleasure at all, for me.

But I am not calling for a regurgitation of the Nolan formula, either. As MessiahDecoy says, the Animated Series would be a better frame of reference and so too, funnily enough, would be the comics. I just don't want it to reek of market research and merchandising contracts, like the Marvel Movietisements.

 

[FVD]

In no particular order....

1) Impressive fight scenes (a good choreographer and trainer too would help)
2) World's Greatest Detective - be great for challenging the Riddler too.
3) While I liked Ledger's Joker let's hope next time we'll actually see him looking a little more sophisticated and not a ruffian like Ledger. He is the Clown Prince of Crime after all. Plus if he can also be charismatic AND funny that would be a bonus.
4) Gotham City the way it is meant to be portrayed in the comics and no more Pittsburgh, Chicago and Manhattan locations anymore please. Batman Begins had it from the get-go - why did Nolan get so lazy after that?!
5) No more growling voice either. Sorry Christian Bale but your Bale interrogation was hilarious!!!

The recent Arkham Asylum and Arkham City games nailed the mythos down perfectly if you ask me! If we can get a film in that formula then it's a win-win!

 

[shauner111]

Lmao, sorry for laughing regwec. But it always seems to me like you're going out of your way to sound super duper intelligent by constantly using massive words in your posts. Like

No, and reductio ad absurdum is not a cogent form of argument in this instance.

I am aware that films need to earn a profit, and that the funding required as consideration for the nexus of contracts

Reaaaaally?

It kind of reminds me of watching Chris Pine (Kirk) and Zachary Quinto (Spock) interviews where Quinto is constantly coming out with ridiculous words and Pine is like rolling his eyes or laughing. Sorry man. Not trying to make fun of you, if you're doing it naturally then awesome but it feels like you're forcing it sometimes. Are you Sheldon Cooper, or Spock may I ask?

 

[EssayM]

No, and reductio ad absurdum is not a cogent form of argument in this instance.

I am aware that films need to earn a profit, and that the funding required as consideration for the nexus of contracts involved would not be raised without the promise of a good return. A good film, however, should allow you to escape this reflection every so often. A movie that feels like an advert is no pleasure at all, for me.

But I am not calling for a regurgitation of the Nolan formula, either. As MessiahDecoy says, the Animated Series would be a better frame of reference and so too, funnily enough, would be the comics. I just don't want it to reek of market research and merchandising contracts, like the Marvel Movietisements.

Fair enough. While I disagree with your opinion on the Marvel Movies, I can respect them, and I'm glad we are at least in agreement about the direction the next movies should take.

 

[regwec]

Lmao, sorry for laughing regwec. But it always seems to me like you're going out of your way to sound super duper intelligent by constantly using massive words in your posts. Like Reaaaaally?

It kind of reminds me of watching Chris Pine (Kirk) and Zachary Quinto (Spock) interviews where Quinto is constantly coming out with ridiculous words and Pine is like rolling his eyes or laughing. Sorry man. Not trying to make fun of you, if you're doing it naturally then awesome but it feels like you're forcing it sometimes. Are you Sheldon Cooper, or Spock may I ask?

It just comes out that way. I'm not sure Quinto is the one you should be laughing at in that scenario.

 

[EssayM]

Don't feel bad, I do it too. It's just the way I write.

 

[Steamteck]

I don't agree with what Shauner is saying about Marvel but I would like to respond to this question nonetheless.

In a nutshell, the reason why critics panned MoS is because they don't understand what Superman in the modern times is supposed to be. Based on most of the reviews that panned it, these critics seem to be under the impression that Superman is supposed to be a lighthearted cheesy superhero story with a two-dimensional "I am a superhero and I love you random citizen!" version of Superman and that you can't really have a mature and serious tone in a Superman film. A lot of them are also too nostalgic for the Donner films and criticized MoS for not being more like them (I loved the Donner films too BTW but I don't let my nostalgia for them blind me like how critics do).

That's certainly the impression I got also. I loved MOS and found the Marvel movies finally had serious competition in the Superhero department. people frankly often have expectations that blind to them to film's virtues and it was very evident from the content of the reviews this was happening IMO.

Not to be cruel here, but anyone who thought the Avengers missed the point should probably look for a different genre of movie to watch. frankly I got the same thrill in theater I felt when the original Star Wars was released those many decades ago. Nailed it perfectly.

 

[regwec]

Not to be cruel here, but anyone who thought the Avengers missed the point should probably look for a different genre of movie to watch. frankly I got the same thrill in theater I felt when the original Star Wars was released those many decades ago. Nailed it perfectly.

You're not being cruel, just narrow minded about what the genre can encompass. It includes 3-5 excellent Batman movies, Watchmen, Hellboy, Sin City etc, as well as Marvel Formula.

I don't wish to challenge anyone's love for The Avengers, I just hope that approach is never applied to Batman.

 

[shauner111]

Not to be cruel here, but anyone who thought the Avengers missed the point should probably look for a different genre of movie to watch. frankly I got the same thrill in theater I felt when the original Star Wars was released those many decades ago. Nailed it perfectly.

Well, if it nailed those characters then im just not interested in those characters or the Avengers concept I guess.

Im not really a fan of this genre of movies anyway because most of them are made just to be popcorn fun. It's not what I like to see when I go to the theater. I like films with weight and something to say, not just something to show. Fun is one thing, and if the visuals are insanely cool like Star Trek or Star Wars or Pacific Rim..then ill sit back with popcorn and a smile on my face. But I didn't really get that with Avengers visually. But I felt more emotion in the latest Star Trek movie to be honest.

I had fun with my friends the first time I saw Avengers. I had fun with the Hulk action scenes and some of the Stark one-liners, but I couldn't sit through it a second time when it was out on Blu-Ray. The jokes got old right away, the action didn't feel special the second time, the acting isn't the greatest outside of Downey. It all felt so hollow. Like most pop songs on the radio, a happy meal or a new Transformers/Fast & The Furious/Pirates Of The Caribbean type of Hollywood flick. There's nothing to it. It doesn't stay with you. It just feels so commercialized and made more for kids.

I barely watch action blockbusters but when I do, I like to see a good story with emotion and good filmmaking being put into it MESHED with the big budget action. Like Terminator 2, Casino Royale/Skyfall, TDK trilogy, Inception, these new Star Trek movies, hell even the first couple of Jurassic Park movies. That's the perfect balance Ill go see. Avengers to me felt one dimensional and just gave the people the fun vibe of superheroes. Ill pass on that stuff.

Justice League may be the exact same thing. I might enjoy it a lot more simply because it's still Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and I haven't seen Flash on the big screen..so inevitably ill be more excited. But I probably wont watch it too many times if it's just an Avengers copy done DC style.

DC/WB can tap into something else entirely when they do their solo movies. As they've done with Tim Burton's Batman, Nolan's films, Man Of Steel and V For Vendetta.

 

[EssayM]

I barely watch action blockbusters but when I do, I like to see a good story with emotion and good filmmaking being put into it MESHED with the big budget action. Like Terminator 2, Casino Royale/Skyfall, TDK trilogy, Inception, these new Star Trek movies, hell even the first couple of Jurassic Park movies. That's the perfect balance Ill go see.

Now see, that's exactly what I felt like Avengers was. A blockbuster with a heart and a brain and actual talent behind it, to paraphrase Peter Travers. I get that you didn't see it that way, but that's what I meant when I said I wanted DC movies to be like Avengers. By contrast, I feel like TDKT (and MoS, from what I hear) had the brains and the talent, but they forgot the heart.

 

[shauner111]

I cry during scenes of TDKT, I don't feel anything when I see Avengers but fun. Yeaaah, Nolan forgot the heart. I disagree, as you can see.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Imo Avengers had comedy, action, and badass superhero moments.

Not heart, and definitely not brains. No meat, and no soul.

Not that there's a problem with that, or that a team up movie like that could have been much better, but I didn't fall in love with it like I did tdkr, or even mos and tams, flaws and all.

 

[shauner111]

Id rather have a flawed, but emotional yet brainy action movie than a perfectly crafted comedic action movie. Ill put it that way.

I see Avengers as "action-comedy" and TDKT are like "crime films" to me. I guess you can enjoy both. But I prefer my crime films!

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You call Avengers soulless and heartless?

Are you projecting your own traits onto the movie?

Avengers had plenty of scenes with soul and heart. It just doesn't overplay those cards but every character gets a chance to display why they're considered planetary heroes and I'm not just talking about money and ninjitsu.

It's like calling Back to the Future or Ghostbusters soulless because they're comical and cartoonish at times. You don't have to be somber and melancholy to be soulful. Hope and laughter can be just as soulful.

I even find Batman (89) to be more soulful and heartfelt than dry pretentious law dramas like Batman Begins and TDKR. At least B89 has artistic vision and sound that is subversive, charming, and stimulates the imagination not Law and Order: Chicago with plausible Batman staples and forced headline news allegories thrown in for good measure.

 

[Kryptonian Titan]

You call Avengers soulless and heartless?

Are you projecting your own traits onto the movie?

Avengers had plenty of scenes with soul and heart. It just doesn't overplay those cards but every character gets a chance to display why they're considered planetary heroes and I'm nnot just talking about money and ninjitsu.

It's like calling Back to the Future or Ghostbusters soulless because they're comical and cartoonish at times. You don't have to be somber and melancholy to be soulful. Hope and laughter can be just as soulful.

I even find Batman (89) to be more soulful and heartfelt than dry pretentious law dramas like Batman Begins and TDKR. At least B89 has artistic vision and sound that is subverive, charming, and stimulates the imagination not Law and Order: Chicago with plausible Batman staples and forced headline news allegories thrown in for good measure.

Agreed on everything. Specially about Batman (89).

 

[Steamteck]

You're not being cruel, just narrow minded about what the genre can encompass. It includes 3-5 excellent Batman movies, Watchmen, Hellboy, Sin City etc, as well as Marvel Formula.

I don't wish to challenge anyone's love for The Avengers, I just hope that approach is never applied to Batman.

I didn't exclude anything but for the classic superhero genre Avengers nailed it perfectly. I guess I should have been more specific about the genre I meant. If you mean Sin City is a classic superhero movie in your book I'll be narrow minded with glee though although it was fun for what its was.
Hellboy's pretty darn cool also.

I'll admit I'm kind narrow-minded about TDK because I found it such a disappointment after Batman Begins and because it seems to get a complete pass on all its flaws from so many people who jump down the throats of other films for lesser crimes IMO.

 

[Steamteck]

I cry during scenes of TDKT, I don't feel anything when I see Avengers but fun. Yeaaah, Nolan forgot the heart. I disagree, as you can see.

Obviously we respond to different things and identify with different things and thus see emotion in different places. I felt far less for the characters in the Nolan batman films except a bit in begins than the Marvel films

That's fine there's room for both of us. Hopefully they'll make films for both of us. MOS seems to be a happy medium at least.

 

[Tristan_McClark]

If I may say, I really thought Batman Begins had emotion. I actually felt Bruce Wayne's emotions, dealing with pain, displaying anger against criminals, etc.

I want the next films to have more of the mystery/detective element. Prep time would be nice.

The bat voice has to go simply for the fact that I uncontrollably imitate that voice when I sometimes make remarks lol. Pull a Kevin Conroy/Keaton for the next set of films.

 

[regwec]

You call Avengers soulless and heartless?

Are you projecting your own traits onto the movie?

Avengers had plenty of scenes with soul and heart. It just doesn't overplay those cards but every character gets a chance to display why they're considered planetary heroes and I'm nnot just talking about money and ninjitsu.

It's like calling Back to the Future or Ghostbusters soulless because they're comical and cartoonish at times. You don't have to be somber and melancholy to be soulful. Hope and laughter can be just as soulful.

I even find Batman (89) to be more soulful and heartfelt than dry pretentious law dramas like Batman Begins and TDKR. At least B89 has artistic vision and sound that is subverive, charming, and stimulates the imagination not Law and Order: Chicago with plausible Batman staples and forced headline news allegories thrown in for good measure.

You see, I felt that The Avengers just had a sprinkling of sentimentality, no doubt calculated by a telemarketing poll and then added in a sterile laboratory by pipette. There was nothing in that thing that seemed personal or thoughtful, to me.

The fact that so many approving comments on The Avengers seem to be variations on "it had everything", seems suspicious to me. I can sense the presence of market researchers, with clip boards and tick-boxes.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If Avengers was made based on marketing data it wouldn't look anything like the comics.

Everyone knows the Schumacher Batman movies were a shift by the studio toward selling Happy Meals.

and it's not like they payed much attention to fan favorite comics as a result. When marketing is the main focus comics are a distant afterthought.

The humor and action in Avengers is the way it is because the concept is silly and if it's too somber and serious people won't watch it. Whedon's clearly on to something because the movie was a runaway success not just with the general audience but with fanboys and critics too. Clearly they didn't feel like they were sitting through a two hour advertisement for Disney merchandise. They actually enjoyed the storytelling and imaginative concepts.

 

[regwec]

As I've said many times, I am aware The Avengers was popular.

For me, this makes it a serious threat to Batman, because the temptation will inevitably be to emulate its "style". I would hate to see Batman given the same treatment, and I would only see it once.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

While I don't think The Avengers' style would fit Gotham City I think the same comic friendly approach could create something unlike any live-action Batman movie we've seen before which explores Batman/Gotham/Villains in ways that were ignored previously on film.

 

[regwec]

With that I agree, but I feel that BTAS is the better source of influence. Key, I think, is devising a compelling story, then deducing which established characters fit the framework, then fusing it all together into something linear but dramatically interesting. Choosing an off-the-peg story and merely inserting as many dramatis personae as possible would be a disaster, as would ticking-off comic-book moments.

I suppose this is the same approach that good comic book writers take, anyway.

 

[JOE]

You call Avengers soulless and heartless?

Are you projecting your own traits onto the movie?

Avengers had plenty of scenes with soul and heart. It just doesn't overplay those cards but every character gets a chance to display why they're considered planetary heroes and I'm nnot just talking about money and ninjitsu.

It's like calling Back to the Future or Ghostbusters soulless because they're comical and cartoonish at times. You don't have to be somber and melancholy to be soulful. Hope and laughter can be just as soulful.

I even find Batman (89) to be more soulful and heartfelt than dry pretentious law dramas like Batman Begins and TDKR. At least B89 has artistic vision and sound that is subverive, charming, and stimulates the imagination not Law and Order: Chicago with plausible Batman staples and forced headline news allegories thrown in for good measure.

All of this.