Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 6

[Spider-Fan]

Let's leave the "real fans" garbage at home, please.

Agreed. People may be fans of a certain character for different reasons or like different things about them. What's important to fan A may not be for fan B, but no one is a lesser fan. I seriously roll my eyes whenever this accusation is made.

 

[misslane38]

Yep. That’s more than fair enough. I could care less about any changes the MCU makes to its characters, because I’ve never been a big fan of Marvel’s comic books. If a film is good, and the characterisation works, that’s all that matters. For me, Mr Snyder just didn’t make a good movie, and his characterisation doesn’t work... but I recognise that for others, this is not the case. I suppose if I saw something in Snyder’s Batman that said something new or interesting about the character, I’d have less of a problem with moving away from the source material, but all I see is a badly conceived version of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight that was an entirely unsuitable characterisation for the start of a cinematic universe.

So, which is it? Is Miller's DK "source material" or not? Because if Snyder did a version of it, then he didn't move away from the "source material," as what that is can be extremely broad and diverse. Would it have been better if BvS had been more loyal to Miller's story? Grant Morrison seems to like the changes. It's also a characterization that the film doesn't even allow to endure to the end; it concludes with the reaffirmation and budding reformation of the character. If, for example, the only things you would assess as new or interesting things that one would find acceptable and appealing would be things that flattered a beloved character, then you're still placing limitations.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Eh, whatever happens with Reeve's Batman, I hope he keeps a version of the black n grey suit. I will always thank Zack for this.

 

[kguillou]

Eh, whatever happens with Reeve's Batman, I hope he keeps a version of the black n grey suit. I will always thank Zack for this.

Same, I remember the moment they announced Batman was gonna be in the Man of steel sequel, my first thought was "with Zack Snyder at the helm, we're DEFINITELY finally getting the classic comic book Batman costume." Don't get me wrong, I love the all black look too (not so much with the later Dark Knight films) but I wanted to see Batman sport the Black/Grey look so badly. And sure enough, Zack delivered in spades.

 

[Patchwork Man]

all y'all fake fans.

i was lined up around the block around grand lake theater in oakland, waiting in line, on opening night for batman 1989.

where were you on june 23, 1989 huh?! huh?!

Doing the exact same thing.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Comments like this convince me a lot of Snyder fans aren't really fans of the comic characters he's made films about.

Such drivel. I've been a reader since the '70s.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Really? Because you don't seem to have any issues casually dismissing extremely well known and important aspects of the character, if it means defending Snyder's 'vision'.

Do you have issues with Star-Lord's 180-degree turn from the way he was written in the '70s-80s? Do those one-liners and dance moves define the character for you? MCU or nothing?

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

And for the record, while I have been vocal about my unhappiness with Zack's take on Supes, I can still admit MoS is the notably better film regardless of my preference for JL's take on the character. If MoS and WW were the only DCEU films in existence right now, and we were about to get Reeves' Batman and Wan's Aquaman, all still building toward a JL film, I think the mood would be VERY different right now. Because to me, those are the two that felt like actual films and not just WB seeing $$$ and wanting the fastest cash-in possible.

If only, this cinematic universe would not be the shambles it is right now if that were the case. Literally the only "modern" DC movies worth a damn.

 

[Aurakles]

Michael Wilkinsons work is magnificent, I've loved all his costumes from MOS, BVS and JL. It's funny that there have already been 5 different Batsuits in the DCEU.

 

[Elayis]

While I like the design of the Batsuit, the execution of it leaves a lot to be desired; far too much padding and excessive bulk. If Snyder wanted a stout Batman he should've gotten an actor that fit that aesthetic, instead of someone who's 6'4" and stuffing him inside a huge muscle suit. The way he looks in costume without the cowl and gloves is comical, which is never a good thing.

 

[chintai80]

Doing the exact same thing.

 

[FunkMiller]

So, which is it? Is Miller's DK "source material" or not? Because if Snyder did a version of it, then he didn't move away from the "source material," as what that is can be extremely broad and diverse.

Did you see where I used the words ‘badly conceived’? Because Snyder couldn’t even get Dark Knight Batman right. And I’m frankly fed up with having every word of every post I make picked apart and taken out of context, so you can score what you think are valid points, so this will be my last reply.

 

[Consona]

Okay. That’s fair enough. I struggle to see how anyone can be that invested in Batman if they’re not a big fan of the comics, but as you say, different takes. To me, Snyder simply takes too many liberties with the character I’ve been reading for thirty years, and the changes he does make show a marked lack of understanding and knowledge of Batman. However, I also cheerfully accept others do not see it the same way.

Except all that stuff Batman does or is in BvS can be found somewhere in the comics anyway. The same goes for Superman.

More so to point out, Snyder's film were a journey from pre-Superman and weary Batman to Prime Superman and kinda-Prime Batman (well, he's old now t. So why are you complaining? That you don't have the same old same old Supes and Bats in every movie? That there's an arc? Superman and Batman in Snyder's DCEU films had the best CBM hero arcs I've ever seen, maybe way too dark and uncomfortable, but damn profound and awesome. With both characters ending up in the situation you wanted them in! What a f***ing shame we got goofy Josstice League rather than majestic Snyder's vision of those prime versions.

And if you're a Batman fan, I fail to see how you can be happy with such strange and sweeping changes that do nothing to make the characterisation better.

TDK and BvS are some of my fave movies ever. Go figure. And in both movies I totally felt I'm watching the Batman character.

Batman is my fave CB character since I was a kid. And it was the only CB character that grew up with me, actually! From silly and kid friendly versions, to Nolan's mature take on that character when I was some years after my teens to Snyder's dark and uneasy take when I'm a decade older, with head full of deranged obsessions and f**ked up thoughts. All other superhero CBMs after BvS has arrived feel like innocuous demoversions. Thank god we got something like BvS, TDK and Logan.

all y'all fake fans.

i was lined up around the block around grand lake theater in oakland, waiting in line, on opening night for batman 1989.

where were you on june 23, 1989 huh?! huh?!

Kindergarten?.. t:

 

[misslane38]

Did you see where I used the words ‘badly conceived’? Because Snyder couldn’t even get Dark Knight Batman right. And I’m frankly fed up with having every word of every post I make picked apart and taken out of context, so you can score what you think are valid points, so this will be my last reply.

That's why I love Snyder's Batman. I hate Miller's Batman. Snyder didn't get Miller's Batman right, and it was a relief. He cut through the ego, the excuses, the hypocrisies, and the BS to actually create a character who was wrestling with a similar existential crisis but did so in a way that sent Bruce through a second origin story that ultimately reaffirmed his core values. Snyder essentially deconstructed the abominations of iconography and tropes that Miller's story created to leave behind the only bits of Batman that matter.

 

[Micromind]

That's why I love Snyder's Batman. I hate Miller's Batman. Snyder didn't get Miller's Batman right, and it was a relief. He cut through the ego, the excuses, the hypocrisies, and the BS to actually create a character who was wrestling with a similar existential crisis but did so in a way that sent Bruce through a second origin story that ultimately reaffirmed his core values. Snyder essentially deconstructed the abominations of iconography and tropes that Miller's story created to leave behind the only bits of Batman that matter.

Agreed.

 

[GothamBat]

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Awesome stuff, thanks for posting.

 

[Superchan]

.............but all I see is a badly conceived version of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight that was an entirely unsuitable characterisation for the start of a cinematic universe. As a Batman fan, I just want the character to be enjoyed by lots of people, in movies that are popular and well received. We’re sadly very far away from that right now.

Agreed, while TDKR's Batman was a far cry from what the fans perceived as the "true" batman he still preserved his overall moral compass while Snyder's psycho Batman mowed down criminals with machine guns like he was playing Halo. It was certainly a different take on Batman, one that hearkens all the way back to the 1939 version, but unfortunately for Zack and WB the audience didn't take to that version since I guess people want to see a superhero like Batman portrayed like a..........hero, go figure.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Agreed, while TDKR's Batman was a far cry from what the fans perceived as the "true" batman he still preserved his overall moral compass while Snyder's psycho Batman mowed down criminals with machine guns like he was playing Halo. It was certainly a different take on Batman, one that hearkens all the way back to the 1939 version, but unfortunately for Zack and WB the audience didn't take to that version since I guess people want to see a superhero like Batman portrayed like a..........hero, go figure.

Halo's about mowing down aliens though.....Although I guess he DID try to mow down an alien in the movie.

 

[misslane38]

Agreed, while TDKR's Batman was a far cry from what the fans perceived as the "true" batman he still preserved his overall moral compass while Snyder's psycho Batman mowed down criminals with machine guns like he was playing Halo. It was certainly a different take on Batman, one that hearkens all the way back to the 1939 version, but unfortunately for Zack and WB the audience didn't take to that version since I guess people want to see a superhero like Batman portrayed like a..........hero, go figure.

Yeah, um, Zack Snyder didn't want the audience to take to that version either. That's why Bruce's arc is presented as a tragic fall followed by redemption. It wasn't Snyder's take on Batman; it was Snyder's take on Bruce Wayne when the "beautiful lie" of Batman can't make the world make sense after the BZE. Snyder builds to the return of Batman the hero: the one who saves Martha, the one who stands together with others, the one who believes that men are still good. If people want to see a superhero like Batman portrayed as a hero, then BvS is a film that stands with them. It wants that for Batman, too. Alfred wants it, Clark wants it, and ultimately Bruce wants it.

 

[moviefreak]

all y'all fake fans.

i was lined up around the block around grand lake theater in oakland, waiting in line, on opening night for batman 1989.

where were you on june 23, 1989 huh?! huh?!

That's nothing --I was lining up around the block on the first theatrical opening night in December 1978 for 'Superman The Movie'. That was when I was still reading pre-Crisis, Bronze Age comics inked by the likes of Curt Swan et al. I like both version of Superman - Donner's and Snyder, specifically Superman ('78), MOS and BvS.

Even earlier I was there for the likes of Star Wars, Close Encounter, A Bridge too Far, The Spy Who Loved Me, Saturday Night Fever, Smokey & the Bandit -- top 10 grossing films of the 1977 IIRC and all of them I went with my sister , bothers and cousins. I went on the average of once per weekend to the theatre. heh. I think that I'm one of the only few SHH posters who have seen these films in all its unvarnished glory.

Of course I saw Burton's Batman in the theatre.

These days, the youngsters can enjoy all their Disney/Marvel outing. They will soon venerate Uncle Walt. lol

 

[Consona]

https://***********/ShazyReplicant/status/982757051880427523

Snyder answering fans' question about Supes killing Zod, 1:56, spot on.

 

[Patchwork Man]

That's nothing --I was lining up around the block on the first theatrical opening night in December 1978 for 'Superman The Movie'. That was when I was still reading pre-Crisis, Bronze Age comics inked by the likes of Curt Swan et al. I like both version of Superman - Donner's and Snyder, specifically Superman ('78), MOS and BvS.

Even earlier I was there for the likes of Star Wars, Close Encounter, A Bridge too Far, The Spy Who Loved Me, Saturday Night Fever, Smokey & the Bandit -- top 10 grossing films of the 1977 IIRC and all of them I went with my sister , bothers and cousins. I went on the average of once per weekend to the theatre. heh. I think that I'm one of the only few SHH posters who have seen these films in all its unvarnished glory.

Also saw S:TM, Superman II, Star Wars (on a double bill with Laserblast, ha!) and Smokey & The Bandit in the theater. (Had to wait for cable to watch SNF...lol.)

 

[chintai80]

That's nothing --I was lining up around the block on the first theatrical opening night in December 1978 for 'Superman The Movie'. That was when I was still reading pre-Crisis, Bronze Age comics inked by the likes of Curt Swan et al. I like both version of Superman - Donner's and Snyder, specifically Superman ('78), MOS and BvS.

Even earlier I was there for the likes of Star Wars, Close Encounter, A Bridge too Far, The Spy Who Loved Me, Saturday Night Fever, Smokey & the Bandit -- top 10 grossing films of the 1977 IIRC and all of them I went with my sister , bothers and cousins. I went on the average of once per weekend to the theatre. heh. I think that I'm one of the only few SHH posters who have seen these films in all its unvarnished glory.

Of course I saw Burton's Batman in the theatre.

These days, the youngsters can enjoy all their Disney/Marvel outing. They will soon venerate Uncle Walt. lol

ah, a real OG. much respect.

i remember the hype for burton's first batman being HUGE.

the hype for donner's superman must have been off the scales back in '78 then!

curt swan's is probably the definite comic book superman for me.
whenever i think of superman, it's swan's artwork that first comes to mind.

 

[Limonade]

https://***********/ShazyReplicant/status/982757051880427523

Snyder answering fans' question about Supes killing Zod, 1:56, spot on.

But they set that moment up. The team chose Superman to kill Zod in that manner. A manner in which looked open to other possibilities.

Choke him out. Fly him up, sideways. Scar his hands and block the laser. Go to the family quickly and engage his heat vision.

For crying out loud, Jor El was a scientist and was able to subdue Zod. It goes to show that the house of El is not your typical Kryptonian. They set that up in that very movie.

My point: while the message of killing by Superman should be open to be tackled. The execution needs to make sense and follow the rules that movie itself makes. You're asking the movie to be taken seriously by the tone and gravitas... then you can't complain when the audience judge the scene with their rules of logic and reasonableness based on what the film presents.