Zack Snyder talks Watchmen

[Movies205]

Who knows it might fall through, the project has so many times I've lost count. I'd still want see Gilliam's vision

 

[Punch]

I really like the idea of 2 movies.

 

[Agentsands77]

I really like the idea of 2 movies.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't - just because there's no real place to break it in two. If the two films can't stand on their own as films, don't divide the material. WATCHMEN does not lend itself to being two separate films because there'd be nothing self-contained about either of them, and the first film especially would feel absolutely pointless because it would be entirely set-up with absolutely no resolution of any kind.

 

[Punch]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't - just because there's no real place to break it in two. If the two films can't stand on their own as films, don't divide the material. WATCHMEN does not lend itself to being two separate films because there'd be nothing self-contained about either of them, and the first film especially would feel absolutely pointless because it would be entirely set-up with absolutely no resolution of any kind.

I agree

But if they could do it, it would open up alot of room for some ideas to be fleshed out.

 

[Movies205]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't - just because there's no real place to break it in two. If the two films can't stand on their own as films, don't divide the material. WATCHMEN does not lend itself to being two separate films because there'd be nothing self-contained about either of them, and the first film especially would feel absolutely pointless because it would be entirely set-up with absolutely no resolution of any kind.

I haven't read Watchmen in a whiel I need to revisit it, I read it a year or two again and it sits on my shelf... But from a writer stand-point and this purely from memory... I'd seperate it as follows

Act 1 which would be 30 minutes most likely, would focus solely on Rorsatch, the first 5 minutes being the comedians' death, then the rest of the act would be Rorsatch, with some focus on on Owlman to segway into act 2, I'd use Rorsatch story primarly as a tool of exposition, but not in the sense of boring exposition but he's detective so it'd be very easy to slip in all the nessary details.

Act 2 which would be the bulk probably 60-70 minutes, would take place wehn Rorsatch is in jail and focus on Owl-Man, since his relationship wtih that girl could easily highlight Dr. Manhatten, and could lead to an enjoyable 70 minutes leading to Rorsatch escape and of course to Ozymanious hide-out in the end.

Act 3 of course benig the climax that everyone knows and what happens to the indiviual heros as well as clearing up mystery wtih the comedian. Personally under that outline if a writer, read watchmen, stuck to an outline such as that, and put up limitations for himself without sacrificing any depth, and was given enough time, I think a good watchman script could come about but that's how I'd tackle it, so I think it's possible, you mgiht need to cut a story arc or something, depending. But these are my thoughts and I of course am not writing it.

 

[Agentsands77]

That's a fine outline if you're looking at it in three-act structure (which I don't think WATCHMEN cleanly falls into), but even there, there's no room to break it into two separate films.

This just goes on to prove that at least one thing is true of WATCHMEN - it's probably one of the hardest graphic novels to adapt, because it's so tailor-made for the medium of comics.

 

[Movies205]

That's a fine outline if you're looking at it in three-act structure (which I don't think WATCHMEN cleanly falls into), but even there, there's no room to break it into two separate films.

This just goes on to prove that at least one thing is true of WATCHMEN - it's probably one of the hardest graphic novels to adapt, because it's so tailor-made for the medium of comics.

Yeah if you want do a direct adaptation, I got read it again to actually get a good idea on how I would write it, which is a game I play with myself when reading stuff, but I'm not against stuff being changed and tone down as long as the actualy theme behind it isn't changed or toned down, which I think is possible, but again it's been awhile since I read it... I have hope for a watchmen movie, the two main characters who interest me are Rorsatch and Owlman since there the most human, Dr. Manhatten is going be dreadfully boring on screen since if you have a main character like that the payoff conventionally is a cool action sequence also he so monotonous it'd be boring on screen, I get the point and I wouldn't change his character to fit convention but I'd regate him to a side-character who's often elluded to but his actual screen-time seems more than it is. These are just my thoughts on the entire subject, I'd be interested in reading the Hayter draft to see how he tackled it.

 

[Agentsands77]

Well, Hayter didn't do it as you would do it, and I wouldn't do it as you would do it either (I don't think Dr. Manhattan would be boring at all - and he's just as important as Rorschach and IMO is miles more interesting than the somewhat generic Owlman - not to mention Dr. Manhattan is the focus of the single best chapter of WATCHMEN).

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Hey if anyone knows where I can get my hands on that Hayter script, please PM me! I'd love to see what he did.

And ALL of the characters are pretty important here. Nite Owl II literally gets his manhood back by becoming Night Owl again, and I liked how he and Rorsharch were once partners.

 

[Motown Marvel]

i like what snyder has to say. his intentions sound pure, here's for hoping he can pull it off. its also good to hear that he wasnt satisfied with what tse did.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Only thing is...Snyder is a "style" director from what I can tell so far, and I'm not totally convinced he can pull off the emotional weight this film would demand.

His picking out that particular line of The Watchmen as "that's it!" doesn't make me feel any better. Because, IMO, that's not really it.

I still hope he does it justice.

 

[Cinemaman]

I haven't read Watchmen in a whiel I need to revisit it, I read it a year or two again and it sits on my shelf... But from a writer stand-point and this purely from memory... I'd seperate it as follows

Act 1 which would be 30 minutes most likely, would focus solely on Rorsatch, the first 5 minutes being the comedians' death, then the rest of the act would be Rorsatch, with some focus on on Owlman to segway into act 2, I'd use Rorsatch story primarly as a tool of exposition, but not in the sense of boring exposition but he's detective so it'd be very easy to slip in all the nessary details.

Act 2 which would be the bulk probably 60-70 minutes, would take place wehn Rorsatch is in jail and focus on Owl-Man, since his relationship wtih that girl could easily highlight Dr. Manhatten, and could lead to an enjoyable 70 minutes leading to Rorsatch escape and of course to Ozymanious hide-out in the end.

Act 3 of course benig the climax that everyone knows and what happens to the indiviual heros as well as clearing up mystery wtih the comedian. Personally under that outline if a writer, read watchmen, stuck to an outline such as that, and put up limitations for himself without sacrificing any depth, and was given enough time, I think a good watchman script could come about but that's how I'd tackle it, so I think it's possible, you mgiht need to cut a story arc or something, depending. But these are my thoughts and I of course am not writing it.

I'd like to see more Dr. Manhattan's stuff. And I think this movie can be 2 hours and 15 mins, what is enough.

 

[Movies205]

I'd like to see more Dr. Manhattan's stuff. And I think this movie can be 2 hours and 15 mins, what is enough.

I like Dr. Manhatten, I just think that it'd be a betrayal to his character to make him more dynamic, I love his kind of loss of humanity and things like that, but most of the time he's on screen he's philosophising which works great in a comic but perhaps not as well on screen, but I'd keep choice scenes in for example, the moon scene would be an absolute must, and I'd keep him around, this is just my thoughts based off something I Read I think 2 years ago, I'd have to read it again. It'll be absolutely gay though if they turn Dr. Manhatten into a superman like character, or Rorsatch into a more loveable character, and **** like that

 

[Cinemaman]

I like Dr. Manhatten, I just think that it'd be a betrayal to his character to make him more dynamic, I love his kind of loss of humanity and things like that, but most of the time he's on screen he's philosophising which works great in a comic but perhaps not as well on screen, but I'd keep choice scenes in for example, the moon scene would be an absolute must, and I'd keep him around, this is just my thoughts based off something I Read I think 2 years ago, I'd have to read it again. It'll be absolutely gay though if they turn Dr. Manhatten into a superman like character, or Rorsatch into a more loveable character, and **** like that

Nice thoughts, my friend

Well, I doubt Snyder will have any problems with vissual style (300 looks awesome by the way) and effects. I just hope he won't use big part of Tse's script version.

 

[Movies205]

Nice thoughts, my friend

Well, I doubt Snyder will have any problems with vissual style (300 looks awesome by the way) and effects. I just hope he won't use big part of Tse's script version.

Can I have the link to that script review, I have to read it. I mean Watchmen going be hard to market, since it's not an action movie, it's a character drama, it's about people, but it still packs some magical awe, like that scene with the Owl Copter or w/e it's called is my favorite scene I just loved it.

 

[Cinemaman]

Can I have the link to that script review, I have to read it. I mean Watchmen going be hard to market, since it's not an action movie, it's a character drama, it's about people, but it still packs some magical awe, like that scene with the Owl Copter or w/e it's called is my favorite scene I just loved it.

Yep. They should go with limited marketing, because it isn't next summer blockbuster, which will make high numbers in BO. This movie should be made for fans and ppl who liked graphic novel, because only they can be right critics for this movie.

And I aslo wouldn't give Snyder more than $100m budget, it is just too huge.

I wasn't so amazed by Sin City, but I would like Snyder to go with this way and make Watchmen without any changes (but some unnecessary scenes of course can be cut).

If he makes it like V for Vendetta, it won't be so good movie for fans, because VFV had enough changes in storylines.

Watchmen is done movie script, you just need to shoot it and go with Post-Production.

You don't need anything another, everything is done.

But I doubt we will see this movie earlier than 2010, because I feel there will be some problems with the project.

By the way, this is that link http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13607

 

[Movies205]

I like Dr. Manhatten, I just think that it'd be a betrayal to his character to make him more dynamic, I love his kind of loss of humanity and things like that, but most of the time he's on screen he's philosophising which works great in a comic but perhaps not as well on screen, but I'd keep choice scenes in for example, the moon scene would be an absolute must, and I'd keep him around, this is just my thoughts based off something I Read I think 2 years ago, I'd have to read it again. It'll be absolutely gay though if they turn Dr. Manhatten into a superman like character, or Rorsatch into a more loveable character, and **** like that

I guess that someone told Tse to put more action in the movie. Hayter’s draft was more of a political thriller, like something Robert Redford would have starred in in the 70s. In Tse’s draft we see Rorschach, the crazy vigilante, fighting cops in almost every single scene that he’s in. Dr. Manhattan, the only character with real superpowers, teleports out of conversations to stop Islamic terrorists from nuking the Port of Long Beach. It’s like someone told Tse to include an action scene every seven or eight pages.

Exactly the thing I feared... This sucks

http://latinoreview.com/scriptreview.php?id=27

 

[IKnowSomeJudo]

Don't be fooled by what that *****e at Latinoreview said. I've read both Tse's script and Hayter's 3rd draft that recieved praise from sites like AICN & CHUD. Tse's take is actually BETTER. Granted, his script is Hayter's script gone through a couple of rewrites, but the stuff he changed for the most part is an improvement. Hayter threw in a lot of unnecessary crap (result of studio execs pressure, I'm sure) such as Laurie having superpowers and being called 'Slingshot' instead of Silk Spectre and out-of-character dialogues. Most of this has been reverted back to its original comic form in Tse's script.
That is not to say that Tse's script doesn't have its fair share of dumb crap, like, for example, this bruckheimer-esque scene of Dr Manhattan hijacking Islamic terrorists while they were loading a truck with Uranium crates or some **** like that. And the ending with dead bodies in NYC is almost equally as bad, but at least it makes more sense than the goddamn GIANT solar weapon in the sky that for some reason noone spotted weeks before getting their asses fried. Overall, it's a step forward, but still not good enough. This is why I'm beginning to like this Snyder dude more and more.

 

[E-Mack]

^^ Can you expand on the ending of Tse's script? What did he replace the solar weapon with?

 

[Agentsands77]

I wasn't so amazed by Sin City, but I would like Snyder to go with this way and make Watchmen without any changes (but some unnecessary scenes of course can be cut).

IMO, that's a recipe to make an awful film. WATCHMEN isn't capable of being so perfectly translated and working as a film. Furthermore, the visual style of WATCHMEN needs some serious modification if its going to be made into a movie.

Don't be fooled by what that *****e at Latinoreview said. I've read both Tse's script and the Hayter's 3rd draft that recieved praise from sites like AICN & CHUD. Tse's take is actually BETTER. Granted, his script is Hayter's script gone through a couple of rewrites, but the stuff he changed for the most part is an improvement.

For the most part is it an improvement? Nah. There are elements that are better, but for the most part, Hayter's draft came across a lot better than Tse's does. And the ending in NYC is so much worse than what Hayter came up with. Hayter's script also did get Alan Moore's seal of approval, so I don't know why we're moaning about it if Moore actually dug it.

My problem with the project's current state is less about the script, IMO, and more about the director. I agree that the definitive WATCHMEN draft really did have yet to be written (Hayter's was good, but it needed some polishing), but I don't think Snyder is as much of an artist that he'll really bring a true cinematic masterpiece to the screen.

And, this is a personal gripe of mine, somebody along the line has to realize that you can't always transplant Moore's dialogue word-for-word. Dialogue that works beautifully in comic-book form won't always work when given to live actors - it can often sound forced when it's said out loud.

 

[Agentsands77]

^^ Can you expand on the ending of Tse's script? What did he replace the solar weapon with?

Tse had the "brilliant" idea of having Veidt mimic Dr. Manhattan. Veid essentially fakes Dr. Manhattan murdering all the people and threatening the world that if they don't shape up, he'll destroy it. I hated that change.

 

[IKnowSomeJudo]

^^ Can you expand on the ending of Tse's script? What did he replace the solar weapon with?

Basically, it's changed from the solar weapon in the sky to a Blue Energy weapon in Karnak that spreads its blue ray of energy around the globe and vaporizes parts of Washington, New York, Teheran and Jerusalem, making the mass killings more global, which actually is not a bad idea in itself. What's silly and cheesy is the way its presented: before he fries the world capitals, Veidt plays this fake audio message of Dr. Manhattan heard FROM UP IN THE SKY (How? Giant satellite boombox? Don't ask.) that fools the world leaders into thinking that Dr Manhattan was behind the whole thing and it goes something like "CITIZENS OF EARTH, YOU'VE BEEN VERY NAUGHTY AND FRANKLY, I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF IT. GET YOUR COLLECTIVE ***** TOGETHER OR I'LL FRY YOUR ASSES... NO, WAIT, I WILL FRY YOUR ASSES NOW! GET A LOAD OF THIS, BIATCHES!!! MUAHAHA!" *unleashes blue energy ray on world capitals* "FROM NOW ON I'LL BE WATCHING!"

 

[IKnowSomeJudo]

For the most part is it an improvement? Nah. There are elements that are better, but for the most part, Hayter's draft came across a lot better than Tse's does.

Elaborate. All that I see here (aside from the bad stuff I mentioned) is that he made it closer to the Graphic Novel. Gone is the 'Slinghot' business, Gallagher the rookie cop, Dan Dreidberg heading the Crimebusters meeting, even Rorschach's world views are not as washed down as they are in Hayter's draft. All this works better for the script than Hayter's innovations.

And the ending in NYC is so much worse than what Hayter came up with.

Lets see, Hayter came up with a Solar lense satellite that, in order to be functional, has to be the size of Death Star and yet, for some reason, noone's been able to spot it for weeks, even though it should be sticking out like a sore thumb up there in the sky. Then he sends little black boxes to world leaders by FedEx, because we all know that politicians will automatically accept any anonimously sent junk. Oh yeah, that's Masterplan right there.

Hayter's script also did get Alan Moore's seal of approval, so I don't know why we're moaning about it if Moore actually dug it.

People misinterpret his words as if it were some sort of an indorsement. Moore said something along the lines of that it's closest thing to his book anyone in Hollywood has gotten so far. Meaning, it's better than From Hell or LXG or Hamm's Watchmen script, but that he still wouldn't be seeing it.

 

[Agentsands77]

Elaborate. All that I see here (aside from the bad stuff I mentioned) is that he made it closer to the Graphic Novel. Gone is the 'Slinghot' business, Gallagher the rookie cop, Dan Dreidberg heading the Crimebusters meeting, even Rorschach's world views are not as washed down as they are in Hayter's draft. All this works better for the script than Hayter's innovations.

While those are improvements Tse made, I'd say the overall draft is worse than Hayter's because of the craptastic stuff Tse adds on top. I'd rather have those changes than the absolutely awful Dr. Manhattan ending or those dreadful action sequences. Still, the best draft would be somewhere in between Hayter's and Tse's with some more polishing on the dialogue.

Lets see, Hayter came up with a Solar lense satellite that, in order to be functional, has to be the size of Death Star and yet, for some reason, noone's been able to spot it for weeks, even though it should be sticking out like a sore thumb up there in the sky. Then he sends little black boxes to world leaders by FedEx, because we all know that politicians will automatically accept any anonimously sent junk. Oh yeah, that's Masterplan right there.

Unbelievable? Yup. Stupid? You betcha. But it still works better than that asinine Dr. Manhattan idea, which I find more offensive, even if it is slightly more logical in the actual mechanics. This honestly is the hardest part of adapting WATCHMEN - the whole "alien creature" was perhaps the one element of Alan Moore's novel that didn't really work to begin with, and trying to replace it is really, really hard.

People misinterpret his words as if it were some sort of an indorsement. Moore said something along the lines of that it's closest thing to his book anyone in Hollywood has gotten so far. Meaning, it's better than From Hell or LXG or Hamm's Watchmen script, but that he still wouldn't be seeing it.

Moore said something along the lines of it was as close to his vision as he thought could be achieved with a film adaptation, if I remember correctly (feel free to correct me on that count, but that's always how I've remembered Moore's comment).

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Guys...guys...PLEASE share with us where these scripts are! Just PM me or something, I'm dying to read them!