12 killed in Colorado shooting at Dark Knight Rises premiere - Part 2

[terry78]

^From the people using them to mow people down.

 

[Sawyer]

Its on Perez Hilton's site.....

Oh well, in that case...... IT MUST BE TRUE!

 

[Kelly]

Oh well, in that case...... IT MUST BE TRUE!

And the National Inquirer....

 

[Marvolo]

^From the people using them to mow people down.

An AR15 is a semiautomatic meaning one bulltet per trigger pull. Same as any handgun or any other rifle on the market. You can mow someone down with any gun. Hell there are shooters who can shoot a double action semi auto pistol as fast as an automatic. Some are more deadly with a bolt action than with a AR. Point is people only fear the AR because it LOOKS like a military weapon which is wholly ignorant. A true shooter who knows and understands guns know that under normal circumstances the number of bullets you have and rate of fire isnt as important as whether you are on target. This wasnt normal circunstances. He was shooting fish in a barrel. He took a gun and extorted it for a horrible crime. If he couldnt get an AR he would have went for another semi auto rifle. The AR isnt the only semi on the market with an external mag. It is juat the one he picked.

 

[Kelly]

An AR15 is a semiautomatic meaning one bulltet per trigger pull. Same as any handgun or any other rifle on the market. You can mow someone down with any gun. Hell there are shooters who can shoot a double action semi auto gun as fast as an automatic. Point is people only fear the AR because it LOOKS like a military weapon which is wholly ignorant.

Well, it was built for the military, it was sold to Colt later on....

 

[Spider-Who?]

If he had gone to the black market, he wouldn't have been able to afford that much either.

Do you keep up on the price of stuff on the black market?

I got here late...has anyone suggested just maybe banning civilian-owned assault rifles?

Why does a civilian need an assault rifle?

I know criminals can get illegal weapons, but this guy got his legally, did he not? Seems most of them do.

I'm not attacking you at all, so please don't take it that way (so many people keep saying this, so its not just you), but this is a perfect illustration of the impact of the misinformation spread (intentionally or unintentionally) by the media.

He did NOT use an assault rifle. He had an AR-15, which is an assault rifle only in appearance.

An assault rifle is a rifle that has multiple firing options including fully automatic fire. Holmes' rifle was only able to fire semi-automatically. The AR-15 is basically a "cool" looking hunting rifle (with a smaller caliber than most hunting rifles).

The sale of assault rifles are banned in many states, and where assault rifles ARE allowed to be sold, they are VERY hard to get. You need to apply for a Class 3, which in most states are only even looked at if the purpose involves a business (a regular collector will be refused flat out). Then with an extensive background check and fees, 6 month waiting period, you then sell you soul to the ATF for the lifespan of the license (they can come into your home when ever they want to check on your collection, you must call them and tell them when and where you're going with the weapon anytime it leaves the house, etc).

Had Holmes obtained an ACTUAL assault rifle, the death toll would be MUCH worse, but its likely that the regulations for obtaining one hindered his ability to obtain one, thankfully.

 

[Golgo-13]

I can't believe this guy is asking how TDKR ended...

 

[Marvolo]

Well, it was built for the military, it was sold to Colt later on....

And made to comply with the same restrictions and regulations as every other civillian gun. If it looked more like an old fashioned gun people wouldnt care. These are the way modern guns are built and look.

 

[Quasimod0]

The only people who build up a large arsenal of guns are insane. It's not the guns. It's a people problem. It's time like this I wish we could just shoot crazy sickos like this guy. I can't believe he's gonna go through months and months of trials for no good reason. Makes me really upset. Guy should be dead for killing these 12 people and trying to kill even more

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Well, I am reporting from actual experience.

I dont see how "building up an arsenal" is more difficult. Certainly the black market would be a cheaper way to do that. And as far as numbers goes, like I said, these guys were bringing in sometimes dozens of guns in one day, including AR15s.

It is more difficult. The ease of access on a legal market will always beat an illegal one simply because one has the support of the state to operate and it has zero risk in obtaining the merchandise. Cho and Holmes got their weaponry through perfectly legal means because it was the easiest, most logical choice for them. They didnt bother with a black market because they didnt have to. From your example, it seems as though you have a greater chance of raising a flag through a secret agent in the black market than building your arsenal through legal means. It is simply easier to do things legally than illegally if you have the choice because the state has greater reach and power than any individual. Its like the state was patting Holmes and Cho in the back for doing the right thing after they obtained their supplies with the intent of killing.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

I cant find this thing of him wanting to kill the TDKR cast. Any truth to that?

 

[Kelly]

So, he had the following....

AR 15: How many rounds can this shoot, the police said that the one he had had the capability of firing 100 rounds, so?


12 gauge Shotgun: How many rounds can this shoot before having to reload....

And 2 .40 caliber handguns: How many rounds can these shoot before having to reload...

Educate me.....

Found some more information:

He had purchased a

As for the 100-round rifle drum and the weapon's firing capability, Oates said he did not know whether the rifle was fully automatic or sem-automatic but "even if it was semi-automatic, I'm told by experts that with that drum magazine, he could've gotten off 50 to 60 rounds ... within one minute."

so as far as the AR 15 possible 50 to 60 rounds within one minute...he bought 3000 rounds for this weapon...

300 rounds for the Shotgun and 3000 rounds for the 2 Glocks...

 

[Spade]

The article on the Daily Mail about that "kill the crew" claim is on the previous page.

 

[Kelly]

I cant find this thing of him wanting to kill the TDKR cast. Any truth to that?

The sources I have seen of this are...

A rag mag in the UK
Perez Hilton
National Inquirer...

Their source is: an unnamed police source....

 

[EML420]

Has any one ever bought a gun off the black market? I know some guys that are into some shady stuff but getting guns are hard and expensive.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

I cant find this thing of him wanting to kill the TDKR cast. Any truth to that?

Dunno if that's true, but here's the link to the article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-stars-Dark-Knight-Rises-NYC-premiere.html

 

[Spade]

AR 15: How many rounds can this shoot, the police said that the one he had had the capability of firing 100 rounds, so?

He had a drum attached loaded with 100 rounds. It fits in where the regular magazine normally would. Since it takes its place, he would've been able to fire just the 100. It also malfunctioned; not all of that was shot into the theater.

12 gauge Shotgun: How many rounds can this shoot before having to reload....

Depends. A Remington Model 870 (the one he used) can shoot between 3 to 8 rounds before it requires reloading. The capacity depends on the variant you own, of which there are many.

And 2 .40 caliber handguns: How many rounds can these shoot before having to reload...

The Glock Model 22 is usually made to fire 15, but some states limit it to 10. Glocks can go as high as 19 with modification, and 33 with high capacity mags. Doesn't sound like he had the latter with him that night.

 

[Marvolo]

So, he had the following....

AR 15: How many rounds can this shoot, the police said that the one he had had the capability of firing 100 rounds, so?

12 gauge Shotgun: How many rounds can this shoot before having to reload....

And 2 .40 caliber handguns: How many rounds can these shoot before having to reload...

Educate me.....

AR15 is a mei automatic meaning on trigger pull fires one bullet. It takes an external magazine that holds 20-30 rounds. Rate of fire is entirely dependent on how fast the shooter can pull the trigger. Cheap overseas companies produce 100 round drum magazines. These usually are crap and malfunction.

Most 12 gauge pumps holds 4+1 rounds meaning four in the internal tube magazine and one chamered. Extended mags can be bought that can allow up 8+1. Rate of fire is entirely dependent on how fast shpoter can pull trigger pump spent shell out and engage nrw shell. If it was a semi auto no pumping is required.

.40 caliber glocks come in three sizes. Full holds 15+1 rounds, compact holds 12+1 rounds, sub compact holds 9+1 i think. Glock makes an extended mag that holds 22 rounds. Rate of fire is entirely depenfent on how fast shooter can pull trigger.

 

[Kelly]

AR15 is a mei automatic meaning on trigger pull fires one bullet. It takes an external magazine that holds 20-30 rounds. Rate of fire is entirely dependent on how fast the shooter can pull the trigger. Cheap overseas companies produce 100 round drum magazines. These usually are crap and malfunction.

Most 12 gauge pumps holds 4+1 rounds meaning four in the internal tube magazine and one chamered. Extended mags can be bought that can allow up 8+1. Rate of fire is entirely dependent on how fast shpoter can pull trigger pump spent shell out and engage nrw shell. If it was a semi auto no pumping is required.

.40 caliber glocks come in three sizes. Full holds 15+1 rounds, compact holds 12+1 rounds, sub compact holds 9+1 i think. Glock makes an extended mag that holds 22 rounds. Rate of fire is entirely depenfent on how fast shooter can pull trigger.

I added to my post above, I found more information on exactly what he had....

 

[Marvolo]

I added to my post above, I found more information on exactly what he had....

If he did in fact have a drum mag and it did hold 100 rounds then he could fire all rounds as fast as he can pull the trigger. If he is fast enough then yes in less than a minute.

If he had a bump stock attached it would fire at an even higher rate. Bump stocks use the recoil of the gun to spring the gun back forward causing your trigger finger to smack the trigger increasing rate of fire. They are entirely legal and are a loophole way of turning a semi into essentially an auto.

Something else to know is that a guns rate of fire is also dependent on the weight of the trigger pull, how far the trigger travels, and where the reset point of the trigger is.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I got here late...has anyone suggested just maybe banning civilian-owned assault rifles?

Why does a civilian need an assault rifle?

I know criminals can get illegal weapons, but this guy got his legally, did he not? Seems most of them do.

I would agree that civilians don't need assault rifles.

However, from some things I've read, what Holmes used wasn't an assault rifle, it's a term that the media has been throwing around for headlines because it sounds "scary".

 

[Kelly]

If he did in fact have a drum mag and it did hold 100 rounds then he could fire all rounds as fast as he can pull the trigger. If he is fast enough then yes in less than a minute.

If he had a bump stock attached it would fire at an even higher rate. Bump stocks use the recoil of the gun to spring the gun back forward causing your trigger finger to smack the trigger increasing rate of fire. They are entirely legal and are a loophole way of turning a semi into essentially an auto.

The police chief at the time that that particular article was written did not know if it had been modified, but it did have the drum mag that holds 100 rounds....I've seen some reports that he used armor piercing bullets, but that wasn't mentioned in this particular article that was entirely about the weapons....

 

[Marvolo]

I would agree that civilians don't need assault rifles.

However, from some things I've read, what Holmes used wasn't an assault rifle, it's a term that the media has been throwing around for headlines because it sounds "scary".

It isnt an assault rifle. An assault rifle has to have selective fire meaning you can switch between semi and full automatic. Full auto meaning one trigger pull produces continuous fire. The AR-15 does not have selective fire. It is only semi automatic meaning one trigger pull fires only one bullet. To fire another bullet you have to release the trigger let it reset and pull again.

 

[Marvolo]

The police chief at the time that that particular article was written did not know if it had been modified, but it did have the drum mag that holds 100 rounds....I've seen some reports that he used armor piercing bullets, but that wasn't mentioned in this particular article that was entirely about the weapons....

Honestly given the amount of false data they've been spewing i doubt he had armor piercing. Most likely it was Full Metal Jacketed rounds which someone unfamiliar with ammo could cinfuse for armor piercing.

 

[Kelly]

Honestly given the amount of false data they've been spewing i doubt he had armor piercing. Most likely it was Full Metal Jacketed rounds which to someone unfamiliar with ammo would confuse with armor piercing.

Very possible....this article was just on the weapons so it was strange that it wasn't mentioned in it....so I figure that wasn't the case.