2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 4

[Ness]

Big words coming from fans of a team with Joey Harrington II, err Alex Smith at QB.

Don't compare Alex to the bust that Detroit selected. Smith is playing better than Harrington ever did.

Not having a receiver in the top 40 doesn't really many anything either. Didn't the Patriots have that stat early on last season?

And Smith is still averaging over eight yards an attempt. That's ridiculous, especially with the way his offensive line has played. He hasn't had to pass the ball that much especially these last two weeks thanks to Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter raping everyone. He can't just throw a ball up and have a Calvin Johnson bail him out.

 

[Rowsdower!]

It's Tebow Time for the Broncos http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...t=Al.DaXZSWEvDPxW.kEH_2Rw5nYcB?urn=nfl-wp9280

Weird, the Dolphins are hosting Gator Day on the 23rd...in the Hurricanes' stadium...with a Florida QB leading the other team. Wtf

It's a ruse. Denver did a backdoor deal with Miami. Come October 23rd, Tebow will start... for the Dolphins.

They'd rather take a chance on a not-yet-pro-ready QB they signed five minutes ago than start Matt Moore.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Don't compare Alex to the bust that Detroit selected. Smith is playing better than Harrington ever did.

That's why Harrington had more career passing yards, more TD's, higher yds/gm, and effectively the same completion % in the same amount of seasons as Smith?

Piano boy: http://www.nfl.com/player/joeyharrington/2505011/careerstats

Smith: http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/careerstats

Harrington and Smith come from the same place. Their both Jeff Tedford produced QB's, and they have an atrocious track record in the NFL.

Not having a receiver in the top 40 doesn't really many anything either. Didn't the Patriots have that stat early on last season?

Sure it does, it means your QB doesnt throw for a lot of yards in comparison to others. Hence the reason Smith is currently 26th in passing yards.

And Smith is still averaging over eight yards an attempt. That's ridiculous, especially with the way his offensive line has played. He hasn't had to pass the ball that much especially these last two weeks thanks to Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter raping everyone.

He's averaging 7.66 yds per attempt, which puts him 14th in the league. That's not ridiculous, that's slightly above average,

He can't just throw a ball up and have a Calvin Johnson bail him out.

Yes, because clearly every ball Stafford has thrown is the Megatron triple coverage catch against the Cowboys.

 

[Ness]

That's why Harrington had more career passing yards, more TD's, higher yds/gm, and effectively the same completion % in the same amount of seasons as Smith?

Piano boy: http://www.nfl.com/player/joeyharrington/2505011/careerstats

Smith: http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/careerstats

Harrington and Smith come from the same place. Their both Jeff Tedford produced QB's, and they have an atrocious track record in the NFL.

Harrington never had a passer rating above 80. Give me a break. And Alex has had to learn a different offense every single season of his career. And Harrington and Smith didn't come from the same place. Smith doesn't hold the ball high like a lot of Tedford quarterbacks. Alex was at Utah under Urban Meyer, not Cal where Aaron Rodgers was learning under Tedford. Unless you're talking about Akili Smith.

Sure it does, it means your QB doesnt throw for a lot of yards in comparison to others. Hence the reason Smith is currently 26th in passing yards.

No it doesn't. How did Brady have so many yards passing last season then? It could mean that you're just spreading the ball around more, which Smith has been doing.

He's averaging 7.66 yds per attempt, which puts him 14th in the league. That's not ridiculous, that's slightly above average,

I meant adjusted yards per attempt. He's over 8 in that area. If were talking regular, then yes. That's still pretty decent.

Yes, because clearly every ball Stafford has thrown is the Megatron triple coverage catch against the Cowboys.

Didn't say that. Just saying Alex doesn't have that safety valve.

 

[Raiden]

So SB-aspiring teams like Jets are 2-3 and Eagles are 1-4, but teams that were iffy like Niners are 4-1 and Lions are 5-0. And there are bunch of winless teams (aka "Suck for Luck" sweepstake contenders) like Dolphins, Colts, and Rams (who might sell the pick off for three #1 draft picks or something). This season is already very interesting after Week 5.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Harrington never had a passer rating above 80. Give me a break. And Alex has had to learn a different offense every single season of his career. And Harrington and Smith didn't come from the same place. Smith doesn't hold the ball high like a lot of Tedford quarterbacks. Alex was at Utah under Urban Meyer, not Cal where Aaron Rodgers was learning under Tedford. Unless you're talking about Akili Smith.

My bad on Tedford, I saw A. Smith and thought it was Alex.

Regardless it doesnt change the fact that Harrington's measurables were still better than Smith's at this point in his career. Passer rating is a bogus statistic. That's why it's dismissed by stat authorities like PFP and there's a movement to replace it with things like Total QB Rating, etc.

No it doesn't. How did Brady have so many yards passing last season then? It could mean that you're just spreading the ball around more, which Smith has been doing.

Huh? Brady had Welker in the Top 5 all year, and early on in the season Moss and Hernandez were in the Top 20 in receiving yards as well before they got cut/injured. Brady also threw for 3,900 yards, something Smith wont ever sniff, considering he hasnt even broken 1,000 through 5 games.

 

[Ness]

My bad on Tedford, I saw A. Smith and thought it was Alex.

Regardless it doesnt change the fact that Harrington's measurables were still better than Smith's at this point in his career. Passer rating is a bogus statistic. That's why it's dismissed by stat authorities like PFP and there's a movement to replace it with things like Total QB Rating, etc.

Yes well that was a glaring mistake.

Statistics in general are bogus in the game of football. Doesn't mean you can't look at certain stats get an idea for how a player plays. Alex is averaging a good amount of yards per attempt, not turning the ball over and has a nice touchdown percentage through five games. He doesn't have that many pass yards per game because he's not being asked to throw it all that much due to the running game. When he has though, he's come through like he did at Philadelphia when the 49ers were down 17 points after halftime. Harrington's measurables coming out of college are irrelevant. What does that have to do with Alex playing better than he ever did? And ESPN's TQB rating is just another gimmick (you should never listen to ESPN in the first place when it comes to the NFL). The eyeball test will never be replaced.

Huh? Brady had Welker in the Top 5 all year, and early on in the season Moss and Hernandez were in the Top 20 in receiving yards as well before they got cut/injured. Brady also threw for 3,900 yards, something Smith wont ever sniff, considering he hasnt even broken 1,000 through 5 games.

How could Welker be in the top five all year when he finished 29th in receiving yards averaging under 60 yards a game? That doesn't make sense. And Moss only played three games never having a game over 60 yards. Brady simply spread the ball around. Six players had over 300 yards receiving. It's quite simple. And having a bunch of passing yards isn't the most important thing like you're making it out to be. If that's the case let's kick Troy Aikman out of the Hall of Fame. By the way how is Mike Vick doing with all the passing yards he's piling up?

 

[steintym]

Jay Cutler sucks. He's an average at-best QB.

Really? Did you even watch the game last night?

It doesn't show up in the stats, but last night was one of the best games Jay has played as a Bear. It was him and Forte and NOTHING else.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Interesting article regarding Cam Newton. He's on track to breaking several records.

http://www.catscratchreader.com/201...-a-broken-record-newton-nfl-carolina-panthers

 

[kane9321]

Yeah, that's a great statistic especially considering he has the fewest amount of completions and attempts, by a country mile, compared to any other QB in the top 20.

He also only averages 193 yds/gm which is better than only Cassell and McNabb in the Top 20.

You also dont have a WR in the top 40 in yardage.

BEHOLD THE 49ER PASSING JUGGERNAUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4-1..thats what counts

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Damn Hulk, you're following in Matt's footsteps. You guys are easily the most prolific haters in Hype History second only to LastSunrise.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Yes well that was a glaring mistake.

Statistics in general are bogus in the game of football. Doesn't mean you can't look at certain stats get an idea for how a player plays. Alex is averaging a good amount of yards per attempt, not turning the ball over and has a nice touchdown percentage through five games. He doesn't have that many pass yards per game because he's not being asked to throw it all that much due to the running game. When he has though, he's come through like he did at Philadelphia when the 49ers were down 17 points after halftime. Harrington's measurables coming out of college are irrelevant. What does that have to do with Alex playing better than he ever did?

Never said anything about Harrington coming out of college. His "measurables" I was referring to in my post was his measurable stats in his first 6 pro seasons, as compared to Alex Smith's. All the excuses about Smith playing on bad teams with multiple coordinators are probably multiplied for Harrington.

And ESPN's TQB rating is just another gimmick (you should never listen to ESPN in the first place when it comes to the NFL). The eyeball test will never be replaced.

Only one of many that I listed although despite it coming from ESPN, it's based on a long line of thinking to deal with the glaring flaws in the current QB rating metric.

Sites like this: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB can give you a good example of how the stats have moved well beyond what the main media outlets are regularly jamming down your throat.

By the way how is Mike Vick doing with all the passing yards he's piling up?

I'm sorry are we talking about whether the player or the team is doing well again? My contention was never that the 49ers werent playing well, it was that Alex Smith isnt a good QB.

4-1..thats what counts

See above.

Damn Hulk, you're following in Matt's footsteps. You guys are easily the most prolific haters in Hype History second only to LastSunrise.

Not hating on the 49ers. They're def a surprise team this year. Just dont think Alex Smith is a good QB. At some point he's going to be asked to win a game for them, and based on past data, I dont think he's capable.

 

[kane9321]

Never said anything about Harrington coming out of college. His "measurables" I was referring to in my post was his measurable stats in his first 6 pro seasons, as compared to Alex Smith's. All the excuses about Smith playing on bad teams with multiple coordinators are probably multiplied for Harrington.



Only one of many that I listed although despite it coming from ESPN, it's based on a long line of thinking to deal with the glaring flaws in the current QB rating metric.

Sites like this: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB can give you a good example of how the stats have moved well beyond what the main media outlets are regularly jamming down your throat.




I'm sorry are we talking about whether the player or the team is doing well again? My contention was never that the 49ers werent playing well, it was that Alex Smith isnt a good QB.



See above.



Not hating on the 49ers. They're def a surprise team this year. Just dont think Alex Smith is a good QB. At some point he's going to be asked to win a game for them, and based on past data, I dont think he's capable.

HE WON THE GAME AGAINST THE DAMED EAGLES..WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT...Dude stop typing really!

 

[Hound55]

I think he's meaning, "step up and shoulder the vast bulk of the offensive burden" like in games where his RBs aren't giving him 150+ yards of production (not that Alex Smith didn't have a good game himself in that one).

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

HE WON THE GAME AGAINST THE DAMED EAGLES..WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT...Dude stop typing really!

He did?

Smith had a good game against the Eagles no doubt. But Gore also ran for 130 yards in that game, and the Eagles turned the ball over 3 times in the second half. Big difference between having a good game and coming out and winning games for your team. 49ers thus far have won games based on defense and Frank Gore. Once they play someone good enough to shut down Gore and score a little on that defense, like Dallas did, Smith needs to step up.

I think he's meaning, "step up and shoulder the vast bulk of the offensive burden" like in games where his RBs aren't giving him 150+ yards of production (not that Alex Smith didn't have a good game himself in that one).

Thank you.

 

[Matt]

Interesting article regarding Cam Newton. He's on track to breaking several records.

http://www.catscratchreader.com/201...-a-broken-record-newton-nfl-carolina-panthers

Damn. Does this writer go to baseball games and scream, "HEY! YOU'RE PITCHING A PERFECT GAME!!!!" too?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Damn. Does this writer go to baseball games and scream, "HEY! YOU'RE PITCHING A PERFECT GAME!!!!" too?

I didn't even know Newton was on track to doing anything special. Now that he's told the world, he's jinxed Cam.

 

[Donut]

I'm calling Newton on the Madden 2012 Cover & then getting hit with the Curse

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I dunno. Megatron just survived the SI cover jinx, so maybe he can handle Madden too?

 

[Immortalfire]

Damn Hulk, you're following in Matt's footsteps. You guys are easily the most prolific haters in Hype History second only to LastSunrise.

Maybe I should add a poll ..."Biggest hater in this thread?"

 

[Holiday]

Madden curse isn't legit. It's a myth.

 

[Ness]

Never said anything about Harrington coming out of college. His "measurables" I was referring to in my post was his measurable stats in his first 6 pro seasons, as compared to Alex Smith's. All the excuses about Smith playing on bad teams with multiple coordinators are probably multiplied for Harrington.

When folks say measurables, they usually mean their talent, not statistics. Again, basing your argument just on the stat line really shows how much tunnel vision you have. By the way how many different coordinators did Harrington have? Since apparently it's multiplied for what Alex has had. By the way before you answer I just want to let you know that's impossible.

Only one of many that I listed although despite it coming from ESPN, it's based on a long line of thinking to deal with the glaring flaws in the current QB rating metric.

Sites like this: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB can give you a good example of how the stats have moved well beyond what the main media outlets are regularly jamming down your throat.

Okay. Did you not just hear what I said? Basing your argument entirely on statistics in the sport of football is a terrible path to go down. Doesn't matter what site comes up with this or that kind of rating, nothing beats the eyeball test.

I'm sorry are we talking about whether the player or the team is doing well again? My contention was never that the 49ers werent playing well, it was that Alex Smith isnt a good QB.

You tell me. You were all kiddy about huge passing numbers and ranting about how Smith doesn't have them. And I am talking about individual success. Mike Vick is piling up a bunch of passing yards, yet isn't playing that well on the field. Don't see where you got team success with that. Both go hand and hand though. Mike Vick's play is helping screw the Eagles over while piling up huge numbers. Alex Smith's play is helping his team win games, yet he's not passing for as many yards.

 

[Ness]

He did?

Smith had a good game against the Eagles no doubt. But Gore also ran for 130 yards in that game, and the Eagles turned the ball over 3 times in the second half. Big difference between having a good game and coming out and winning games for your team. 49ers thus far have won games based on defense and Frank Gore. Once they play someone good enough to shut down Gore and score a little on that defense, like Dallas did, Smith needs to step up.

Yup. If you were watching you probably would have figured that out. Gore didn't get on track until pretty much the fourth quarter, after Alex Smith drove the 49ers down the field for two touchdowns in the third. Before that he was held in check by the Eagles defense. The passing game helped open up the running lanes for Gore and Hunter.

 

[CConn]

As someone who is totally non-bias towards both the Niners and Smith, I must say... He sucks.

While I wish him the best of luck, I highly doubt the numbers he has now will hold up through this season...let alone consecutive years after this.

 

[CConn]

HE WON THE GAME AGAINST THE DAMED EAGLES..WTF ARE U TALKING ABOUT...Dude stop typing really!

Jeremy Maclin won the game for the 49ers.