2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 6

[Franklin Richards]

What only one game is allowed on national tv on Thanksgiving? At minimum the 49ers/Ravens game should be on ESPN and not NFL network...

No but the other slot is being held by the Lions. You're lucky there are even three games to begin with.

 

[Rowsdower!]

NFL Network has the worst commentators. For the longest time I thought NBC had the worst, BUT OMG Nessler and Mayock are actually professionally terrible.

Wow, that game will not be enjoyable to hear

They're a step-up from Millen.

Really though, I find most commentators to be damn near unbearable. From Gruden's massive hard-on for every obscure and sh**ty player in the NFL to Collinsworth talking about how the Seahawks defeated the Seahawks in the playoffs last year to Solomon Wilcotts getting every other player's name wrong, I often wonder how any of these guys get work.

 

[Matt]

Is there really proof that Ben has saved Arians' job all these years though? It might be true, I don't know, but it always seemed like a lot of finger pointing to me by fans who can't seem to grasp that the front office of the Steelers occasionally makes bad decisions on their own.

Mostly just inside reports. Proof is a tricky thing in the NFL. Is there really any proof that the Rooneys feuded with Terry Bradshaw over his decision to retire (right after assuring them that he would be sticking around for at least five more years and there was no need to draft Dan Marino)? No. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. In fact, it is pretty commonly known that it did happen.

It is a similar situation here. Hell, the Post Gazette even ran a story in 2009 stating Arians was to be fired. The reporter (can't recall who at the moment, but I remember that it was a pretty credible one), still backs the story and says that Roethlisberger made a last minute appeal on Arians' behalf and saved his job. Another example is that it has been acknowledged in interviews by Arians that he planned to "retire," after 2010, until Roethlisberger "talked him out of it." Inside sources however, told local sports reporters like Guy Junker, Bob Pompeani and Mark Madden that Arians was going to be fired for badmouthing Tomlin to players until Roethlisberger intervened and talked to Rooney and Colbert.

Obviously, no one from the front office goes to the press and says "Yep, we were going to fire that son of a ***** but Roethlisberger likes him so we didn't." But again, that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. The reporters who have discussed it (Junker, Pomp, etc) are all pretty reliable guys. They wouldn't put their reputations on the line unless they have sources that they damn well trust.

Either way, yeah... I hope he gets the hell out of town after this season. The Steelers have finally learned how to start games on offense, but are having trouble finishing them. I wish they could play at a high level throughout the entire game, and not just one half.

That all comes down to Arians, well...and Tomlin. He is the only coordinator in the NFL who throws more than he runs with the lead in the fourth quarter (I don't count the Pats as Belichick loves to run up the score ). Arians' idea of increasing the run attack means trying it a few times...but the second that even one run does not work, he will completely abandon the run game. I have never seen a coordinator who lacks such basic football knowledge like, "throw less in 40 mph winds," or "run the ball with the lead late in the game." Of course, this is Tomlin's responsibility too. He can overrule Arians any time that he wants....but he doesn't.

 

[Erzengel]

I guess not having the NFL Network is a good excuse to start waiting on lines after the Cowboys-Dolphins game.

 

[Raiden]

The AFC is insanity this year. 10 of 16 teams are .500 or worse. If the playoffs started today both wild card teams would be from the AFC North.

I'll say this: The Bengals are actually starting to impress me. Yes, they've lost their past two games, but they stuck around and kept fighting in both. They are not a playoff team right now. They may get in due to the mediocrity of the AFC (though I don't think that they will, I think that the Jets will find a way to weasel in due to the ease of their remaining schedule) but they are not ready to compete and win at that level.

THAT being said, despite this young team showing promise, I don't think that fans should be all that excited. With this early success, I think that Marvin Lewis has guaranteed his job for at least another year (because we all know that Mike Brown isn't about winning but rather profiting and Marvin Lewis has done just enough to put butts in the seats and justify his job). Marvin Lewis will ensure that this team once again self-destructs next season. I really think that the Bengals would have been better off long term if they imploded early on and Lewis was fired during their bye and replaced by Jay Gruden. Marvin Lewis will find a way to make sure that they are back to their losing ways next season.

I think Bengals is almost guaranteed to be better next year, because Dalton will be more experienced and they'll get two First-Round picks (thanks to the Palmer trade). But this team is still run by Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis, so I don't think these two will suddenly get rid of their bad habits and become a winner in the long run. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Mostly just inside reports. Proof is a tricky thing in the NFL. Is there really any proof that the Rooneys feuded with Terry Bradshaw over his decision to retire (right after assuring them that he would be sticking around for at least five more years and there was no need to draft Dan Marino)? No. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. In fact, it is pretty commonly known that it did happen.

It is a similar situation here. Hell, the Post Gazette even ran a story in 2009 stating Arians was to be fired. The reporter (can't recall who at the moment, but I remember that it was a pretty credible one), still backs the story and says that Roethlisberger made a last minute appeal on Arians' behalf and saved his job. Another example is that it has been acknowledged in interviews by Arians that he planned to "retire," after 2010, until Roethlisberger "talked him out of it." Inside sources however, told local sports reporters like Guy Junker, Bob Pompeani and Mark Madden that Arians was going to be fired for badmouthing Tomlin to players until Roethlisberger intervened and talked to Rooney and Colbert.

Obviously, no one from the front office goes to the press and says "Yep, we were going to fire that son of a ***** but Roethlisberger likes him so we didn't." But again, that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. The reporters who have discussed it (Junker, Pomp, etc) are all pretty reliable guys. They wouldn't put their reputations on the line unless they have sources that they damn well trust.



That all comes down to Arians, well...and Tomlin. He is the only coordinator in the NFL who throws more than he runs with the lead in the fourth quarter (I don't count the Pats as Belichick loves to run up the score ). Arians' idea of increasing the run attack means trying it a few times...but the second that even one run does not work, he will completely abandon the run game. I have never seen a coordinator who lacks such basic football knowledge like, "throw less in 40 mph winds," or "run the ball with the lead late in the game." Of course, this is Tomlin's responsibility too. He can overrule Arians any time that he wants....but he doesn't.

Regarding the firing Arians thing... yeah, that all sounds pretty truthful. I still think though that sometimes the front office has to man up and get rid of a guy, no matter how much a QB might like him. I hate the Ravens, but I have to give them credit for firing Jim "Worst Coach of the Century" Zorn, despite how much it might have pissed off Joe Flacco.

As for the running thing... I really don't know what to say about Arians' and Tomlin's decisions at game time. Part of me thinks they should run more, but given how many times the RBs are dropped for a loss, I almost feel like running is just a waste of a down. They could have easily won that second game against Baltimore if they could rely on their backs to get them first downs late in the game, but we all know that they can't. Mendenhall has one or two impressive runs per game and the rest of the time, he either loses yards or picks up one. Redman and Moore occasionally break through, but lately they haven't been looking great either. It's probably more the fault of the O-Line than anything else, but I guess since they've FINALLY learned how to pass block (kinda) after all these years, Arians and Tomlin don't want to try and overload their brains with too much information, so they just let them wing it on run blocking.

 

[Assassin32]

I think Bengals is almost guaranteed to be better next year, because Dalton will be more experienced and they'll get two First-Round picks (thanks to the Palmer trade). But this team is still run by Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis, so I don't think these two will suddenly get rid of their bad habits and become a winner in the long run. I'll believe it when I see it.

Only if the Raiders emerge as an elite AFC team. A first and a second isn't bad, though.

 

[Matt]

Regarding the firing Arians thing... yeah, that all sounds pretty truthful. I still think though that sometimes the front office has to man up and get rid of a guy, no matter how much a QB might like him. I hate the Ravens, but I have to give them credit for firing Jim "Worst Coach of the Century" Zorn, despite how much it might have pissed off Joe Flacco.

I agree entirely. Roethlisberger needs to accept his limitations. He is not Manning or Brady. That is just not his style of play. He cannot carry an entire team on his shoulders at all times. He needs support. He works best with a balanced offense. He likes Arians because Arians builds the whole offensive game plan around him but that just doesn't work with a passer like Roethlisberger. A more balanced coordinator would help the team. Roethlisberger just needs to accept it and the front office needs to do it whether he likes it or not.

But it is not just Arians. I don't know, I just feel like something is off with the front office. This is what I loved about the Cowher years. No one was safe. Neither coach nor player. Greg Lloyd was told, "You're too old, we're not resigning you." Same with Joey Porter, Dermontii Dawson and countless others. Tomlin and co. seem to be unwilling to part ways with anyone. Hines, Smith, Hampton, Essex, Gay and even Farrior need to be released either due to age or lack of talent. Cowher was able to maintain a successful team for so many years due to the fact that he was constantly rebuilding it. The Steelers are going to hit a massive rebuilding period all at once now as the Cowher players basically all retire in the same one or two year period. It won't be pretty.

As for the running thing... I really don't know what to say about Arians' and Tomlin's decisions at game time. Part of me thinks they should run more, but given how many times the RBs are dropped for a loss, I almost feel like running is just a waste of a down. They could have easily won that second game against Baltimore if they could rely on their backs to get them first downs late in the game, but we all know that they can't. Mendenhall has one or two impressive runs per game and the rest of the time, he either loses yards or picks up one. Redman and Moore occasionally break through, but lately they haven't been looking great either. It's probably more the fault of the O-Line than anything else, but I guess since they've FINALLY learned how to pass block (kinda) after all these years, Arians and Tomlin don't want to try and overload their brains with too much information, so they just let them wing it on run blocking.

I think that Mendy only has a couple big runs per game because the second that he has one run for negative yardage, Arians just gives up on the running attack. As for him losing yardage, in the fourth quarter with the lead, it doesn't really matter if he doesn't get a first down, but more so that a good two minutes are taken off of the clock or time outs are burnt.

 

[Rowsdower!]

But it is not just Arians. I don't know, I just feel like something is off with the front office. This is what I loved about the Cowher years. No one was safe. Neither coach nor player. Greg Lloyd was told, "You're too old, we're not resigning you." Same with Joey Porter, Dermontii Dawson and countless others. Tomlin and co. seem to be unwilling to part ways with anyone. Hines, Smith, Hampton, Essex, Gay and even Farrior need to be released either due to age or lack of talent. Cowher was able to maintain a successful team for so many years due to the fact that he was constantly rebuilding it. The Steelers are going to hit a massive rebuilding period all at once now as the Cowher players basically all retire in the same one or two year period. It won't be pretty.

Actually, I believe it was Tomlin that canned Porter, but I go agree that some guys like Farrior, Smith and possibly Hines (though it pains me to say it) need to be let go. I was screaming for Gay to be canned at the beginning of this season too because I thought he was horrible but he's actually been solid this year. Did you see him in the Bengals game? Guy was all over the place and he was the reason for both of those INTs. I'm not saying he's Derelle Revis but I think, when utilized correctly like Carnell Lake and LeBeau have been using him this season, he's been effective.

I think that Mendy only has a couple big runs per game because the second that he has one run for negative yardage, Arians just gives up on the running attack. As for him losing yardage, in the fourth quarter with the lead, it doesn't really matter if he doesn't get a first down, but more so that a good two minutes are taken off of the clock or time outs are burnt.

Yeah, but if you go 3 & out and the other team still has their TOs, it's hard to eat up any clock. If the drive ends in a punt that's fine, but you need to get a few first downs to really do any damage. That way you if you have to hand the ball back, the other team has 32 seconds to go 80 yards instead of 2 minutes.

 

[Matt]

Actually, I believe it was Tomlin that canned Porter, but I go agree that some guys like Farrior, Smith and possibly Hines (though it pains me to say it) need to be let go. I was screaming for Gay to be canned at the beginning of this season too because I thought he was horrible but he's actually been solid this year. Did you see him in the Bengals game? Guy was all over the place and he was the reason for both of those INTs. I'm not saying he's Derelle Revis but I think, when utilized correctly like Carnell Lake and LeBeau have been using him this season, he's been effective.

You're right, Porter was a Tomlin cut, my mistake. But my point stands. Think of all the great players that Cowher has let go over his career due to age and diminishing talent. Cowher made hard choices. I've yet to see Mike Tomlin do that.

I get what you're saying about Gay, but I think it is largely because a great QB hasn't really faced him yet. Yes, there was the Patriots game, but he did basically nothing in that game. He can perform against young, easily shaken quarterbacks who are thrown off by the blitz. It is little more than an illusion of average play though.

And for the record, forget Harbaugh, forget McCarthy, I think that Lake should be given the coach of the year award.

But seriously, I think it is time to reconsider who the heir apparent to Dick LeBeau is. Keith Butler has been a good and consistent linebacker coach. But the fact is, he has always had the best of the best at his disposal due to the Steelers' tendency to highly favor LBs in the draft. Lake on the other hand has completely turned around a s***ty unit. I think that he may be the better choice.

Yeah, but if you go 3 & out and the other team still has their TOs, it's hard to eat up any clock. If the drive ends in a punt that's fine, but you need to get a few first downs to really do any damage. That way you if you have to hand the ball back, the other team has 32 seconds to go 80 yards instead of 2 minutes.

Then run down the clock with two runs and then throw on third. It can be the fourth quarter with 3 minutes left and a ten point gap and Arians will call three passing plays in a row.

 

[Poeman]

Big Ben on third down is the man

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, Lake has worked wonders with that secondary. The only thing they haven't done well is get turnovers. But that doesn't matter if they're forcing 4th downs. I think they would be getting some INTs though if Troy was playing the way he usually does. I'm not sure what's been up with him this season, but he always seems to be too late. He could have had a pick that would have won that Ravens game, and he probably could have prevented that AJ Green TD in the Bengals game. But both times, he just stopped short. It was strange.

And yeah, Ben is usually good on 3rd down. Unfortunately, not every time. Still, when it works, it works well, like when a 3rd down pass killed that late surge by the Jets in the AFC championship game last year.

 

[Poeman]

Yeah, Lake has worked wonders with that secondary. The only thing they haven't done well is get turnovers. But that doesn't matter if they're forcing 4th downs. I think they would be getting some INTs though if Troy was playing the way he usually does. I'm not sure what's been up with him this season, but he always seems to be too late. He could have had a pick that would have won that Ravens game, and he probably could have prevented that AJ Green TD in the Bengals game. But both times, he just stopped short. It was strange.

And yeah, Ben is usually good on 3rd down. Unfortunately, not every time. Still, when it works, it works well, like when a 3rd down pass killed that late surge by the Jets in the AFC championship game last year.

Ben's stat line for that game
10/19 133 yards , 2 INTS, 35 QB rating

But he converted on two pivotal 3rd downs

 

[Rowsdower!]

Heh, yeah he didn't play well in that game overall, but he made the plays when he needed to. He also ran for a TD, which apparently doesn't count for anything anymore unless your name is Tim Tebow or Cam Newton.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Brett Favre's name is floating around ESPN as a replacement for Jay Cutler.

 

[steintym]

Favre can stay the **** away from the Bears.

There was a little talk about that on the Chicago sports station this morning. An idiot fan called in with that "brilliant" idea.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Brett Favre's name is floating around ESPN as a replacement for Jay Cutler.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Dr. Evil]

Brett Favre's name is floating around ESPN as a replacement for Jay Cutler.

[YT]1ytCEuuW2_A[/YT]

 

[Ness]

What only one game is allowed on national tv on Thanksgiving? At minimum the 49ers/Ravens game should be on ESPN and not NFL network...

You mean two games. The 49ers/Ravens game should be the only one that you don't get unless you have NFL Network or live in the local area of the two teams. Even so, there are other ways of watching the game online. You can find streams or just go to NFL.com where they will be streaming most of the game live.

 

[enterthemadness]

What only one game is allowed on national tv on Thanksgiving? At minimum the 49ers/Ravens game should be on ESPN and not NFL network...

CBS is airing Miami at Dallas nationally. If not, Jerry Jones will own CBS.

 

[Ness]

Kyle Orton has been waived by the Broncos. Gotta wonder if he's already on his way to Chicago.

 

[Immortalfire]

Speaking of Broncos, I heard that Elway still doesn't think Tebow is all that. Gotta wonder if they're going to pick a QB in 2012?

 

[Rowsdower!]

Kyle Orton has been waived by the Broncos. Gotta wonder if he's already on his way to Chicago.

Heh, I was just thinking about that. Bet he is.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Brett Favre's name is floating around ESPN as a replacement for Jay Cutler.

Oh my goodness. Hope that is just a rumor started by a poop head. Just saw Kyle Orton was released from Broncos...if Bears are smart they'll pick him back up and he'll return to his former team.

 

[Raiden]

Heh, I was just thinking about that. Bet he is.

How about Texans? Or are they satisfied with Leinart as their starting QB with Schaub out?