2013/2014 NFL Thread: Attack of the Matts

[Matt]

RGIII is every bit as impressive of an athlete as AP. I am confident he will recover to full strength, this time. Next time he may not be as lucky. He really needs to change his game. RGIII isn't Michael Vick or Vince Young. He is actually a decent passer without the scrambling. He needs to learn how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball without taking hits. He needs to learn to only scramble when necessary and how to slide. He has the talent to be a traditional NFL quarterback. He needs to become one. Otherwise his career will be short lived.

Furthermore, Shanahan should've been fired last year. Dan Snyder bet his entire franchise's foreseeable future on RGIII and Shanahan played him injured to win a ****ing wildcard game when there was no chance of the Skins going any further (even if they beat Seattle, which I think they would've done if not for RGIII's injury). It was stupid, shortsighted, and could've ended RGIII's career. Snyder should've shown Shanahan the door, IMO.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I can't hate on Ryan or any QB for that matter for not trying to get that money.

However, I will say that Ryan doesn't deserve a 100 million dollar contract. He's not Brady who has went to 5 Super Bowls, won 3 of them, has taken the Patriots to the playoffs almost every year he's been starting QB, and is arguably the greatest QB of the decade by stats, rating, (etc.) aside from Peyton Manning. He's not Peyton Manning, Brees, or Rodgers, who have a Super Bowl ring, broken records, and can have cases made to be the best QB in the league right now.

My thing is, at least winning a Super Bowl can warrant a big pay day. As much as I hate that Flacco got a 100 million dollar contract after winning one Super Bowl, at least he has the leverage of winning a Super Bowl. Ryan won a playoff game.

Super Bowl rings aside, Matt Ryan is a FAR better QB than Joe Flacco.

Matt Ryan has neither the running back nor the defense that Joe Flacco has. Matt Ryan also didn't have Anquan Boldin bailing him out all over the place, nor Denver Broncos defenders literally falling all over themselves to blow the game.

Contrary to popular belief, Super Bowl rings come down to a lot more than just who has the better QB. Individually, Matt Ryan is a much better QB than Flacco, and if I had the choice to build my team around one of them, it wouldn't even be a question which one I take.

While QB contracts are getting way too inflated off the jump as it is, Matt Ryan is just as deserving of his contract as any of them. You say he's only won "a playoff game"? Okay... how successful is that franchise WITHOUT Matt Ryan?

RGIII is every bit as impressive of an athlete as AP. I am confident he will recover to full strength, this time. Next time he may not be as lucky. He really needs to change his game. RGIII isn't Michael Vick or Vince Young. He is actually a decent passer without the scrambling. He needs to learn how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball without taking hits. He needs to learn to only scramble when necessary and how to slide. He has the talent to be a traditional NFL quarterback. He needs to become one. Otherwise his career will be short lived.

Furthermore, Shanahan should've been fired last year. Dan Snyder bet his entire franchise's foreseeable future on RGIII and Shanahan played him injured to win a ****ing wildcard game when there was no chance of the Skins going any further (even if they beat Seattle, which I think they would've done if not for RGIII's injury). It was stupid, shortsighted, and could've ended RGIII's career. Snyder should've shown Shanahan the door, IMO.

I'm torn on the whole RGIII thing when it comes to Shanahan.

On one hand, I agree, he was stupid for continuing to play RGIII. On the other hand, in the playoffs, you play to win. It doesn't matter if you're not supposed to beat the next team or not. You're in the playoffs, you're playing for it all. Not supposed to go deep sure didn't stop the Giants in 2 separate years.

 

[Warhammer]

Super Bowl rings aside, Matt Ryan is a FAR better QB than Joe Flacco.

Matt Ryan has neither the running back nor the defense that Joe Flacco has. Matt Ryan also didn't have Anquan Boldin bailing him out all over the place, nor Denver Broncos defenders literally falling all over themselves to blow the game.

Contrary to popular belief, Super Bowl rings come down to a lot more than just who has the better QB. Individually, Matt Ryan is a much better QB than Flacco, and if I had the choice to build my team around one of them, it wouldn't even be a question which one I take.

While QB contracts are getting way too inflated off the jump as it is, Matt Ryan is just as deserving of his contract as any of them. You say he's only won "a playoff game"? Okay... how successful is that franchise WITHOUT Matt Ryan?

I absolutely agree with what you've said about Ryan vs. Flacco, but at the end of the day, Flacco still has leverage because he won a Super Bowl. That victory can't be taken away from him. But hold on...Matt Ryan at this point in his career deserves a 100 million dollar contract as much as Brady, Manning, Brees, or Rodgers? That is blasphemous. I cannot believe you just said that.

I'm torn on the whole RGIII thing when it comes to Shanahan.

On one hand, I agree, he was stupid for continuing to play RGIII. On the other hand, in the playoffs, you play to win. It doesn't matter if you're not supposed to beat the next team or not. You're in the playoffs, you're playing for it all. Not supposed to go deep sure didn't stop the Giants in 2 separate years.

True words. The Giants won Super Bowls in two years when on paper, they shouldn't have. With the whole Shanahan/RGIII thing, it was no win. Coach was obviously damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah, but... ADRIAN PETERSON! THEY CAN MAKE IT BACK IN NO TIME!

Just kidding. Seriously though, living in DC after the RGIII injury last year, I've constantly heard all these talking heads acting like Adrian Peterson's amazing comeback from serious injury is somehow now the standard. I wish RGIII all the luck in the world and hope he makes an equally impressive comeback, but these people act like he will win MVP next year, throwing for 5,000 yards and rushing for 2,000. Peterson's injury/recovery was a fluke, and these guys act like it's standard practice in the NFL.

You can't blame Redskin fans for hoping RG3 bounces back.

He's the best thing to happen to the Redskins since they won a Superbowl in the early 90's.

 

[Erzengel]

RGIII is being reported that he won't play in the Pre Season and even when he starts in Week 1, he WILL be changing up his game because he's not going to be necessarily at 100%.

I think I stated earlier that even with this injury, and even when he's back healthy I don't think it's going to be exactly the same. 100% RGIII in 2013 might only be 98% RGIII of 2012. Maybe not necessarily noticeable but there.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I absolutely agree with what you've said about Ryan vs. Flacco, but at the end of the day, Flacco still has leverage because he won a Super Bowl. That victory can't be taken away from him. But hold on...Matt Ryan at this point in his career deserves a 100 million dollar contract as much as Brady, Manning, Brees, or Rodgers? That is blasphemous. I cannot believe you just said that.

I did say that, and I stand by it. I believe that Matt Ryan is a top 5 QB in the league, and if Atlanta would get it's act together and actually put a team around him outside of receivers, I think the rest of the league would see it.

 

[Erzengel]

I can't hate on Ryan or any QB for that matter for not trying to get that money.

However, I will say that Ryan doesn't deserve a 100 million dollar contract. He's not Brady who has went to 5 Super Bowls, won 3 of them, has taken the Patriots to the playoffs almost every year he's been starting QB, and is arguably the greatest QB of the decade by stats, rating, (etc.) aside from Peyton Manning. He's not Peyton Manning, Brees, or Rodgers, who have a Super Bowl ring, broken records, and can have cases made to be the best QB in the league right now.

My thing is, at least winning a Super Bowl can warrant a big pay day. As much as I hate that Flacco got a 100 million dollar contract after winning one Super Bowl, at least he has the leverage of winning a Super Bowl. Ryan won a playoff game.

Well it also depends on what camp you fall into. The it takes more than a QB to win a SB or you need an above average QB to win a SB.

I lean more towards the latter. It's been a decade and over since Dilfer and Johnson and if you judging from the past Super Bowls it seems you do need a top QB to win. Say what you want about Flacco, he's better than Dilfer or Johnson.

I understand what you are saying about 100 million dollars and QBs who can't make it further in the post season. I think Ryan has graduated to the class with Rivers and Romo. 3 QBs who are definitely good QBs but their ceilings are looking more like Fouts if they never make it further.

While I do think they are overpaid, if the Falcons didn't lock up Ryan, there are at least 12 teams that would snatch him up. He's definitely a top 10 QB and I can't fault the Falcons for doing what's necessary to keep him. Ask the Jets looking for the next Namath, the Bills Kelly and the Dolphins Marino how easy it is to find the next franchise QB.

 

[Warhammer]

I did say that, and I stand by it. I believe that Matt Ryan is a top 5 QB in the league, and if Atlanta would get it's act together and actually put a team around him outside of receivers, I think the rest of the league would see it.

Oh man......

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Erzengel]

Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees. I wouldn't put Ryan in front of Roethlisberger or Eli. Like I said definitely top 10.

And I agree with Warhammer, Ryan has had Turner, White and Gonzalez since he was drafted. Then Julio Jones and now Steven Jackson? I've said that there are 2 types of QBs, ones who elevate the play of those around them and ones that need help from their teams. While, I would say that Ryan fits in the former, he does have a lot of top receiver/running back help.

 

[Warhammer]

Well it also depends on what camp you fall into. The it takes more than a QB to win a SB or you need an above average QB to win a SB.

I lean more towards the latter. It's been a decade and over since Dilfer and Johnson and if you judging from the past Super Bowls it seems you do need a top QB to win. Say what you want about Flacco, he's better than Dilfer or Johnson.

I understand what you are saying about 100 million dollars and QBs who can't make it further in the post season. I think Ryan has graduated to the class with Rivers and Romo. 3 QBs who are definitely good QBs but their ceilings are looking more like Fouts if they never make it further.

While I do think they are overpaid, if the Falcons didn't lock up Ryan, there are at least 12 teams that would snatch him up. He's definitely a top 10 QB and I can't fault the Falcons for doing what's necessary to keep him. Ask the Jets looking for the next Namath, the Bills Kelly and the Dolphins Marino how easy it is to find the next franchise QB.

Oh yes, I certainly agree that Atlanta needed to lock up Ryan. He is their QB of the future. I also agree that he is top 10. 2012 was definitely the breakout year he needed. With that said, I just don't agree with the idea giving 100 million dollars to a man who has only, to this point, went one and done in the playoffs one time. I don't doubt that five years from now, Ryan will have a ring.

With Flacco, he's definitely better than a Trent Dilfer and a Brad Johnson. I can't take that away. And currently, he has the leverage of a Super Bowl champion so I can't blame the dude for trying to get that wallet filled up. But like Ryan, I just can't see what warrants 100 million dollars. Maybe Flacco two years from now at the rate he is going, but not Flacco as of July 28th, 2013.

 

[Warhammer]

Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees. I wouldn't put Ryan in front of Roethlisberger or Eli. Like I said definitely top 10.

And I agree with Warhammer, Ryan has had Turner, White and Gonzalez since he was drafted. Then Julio Jones and now Steven Jackson? I've said that there are 2 types of QBs, ones who elevate the play of those around them and ones that need help from their teams. While, I would say that Ryan fits in the former, he does have a lot of top receiver/running back help.

That offense is too nasty. Falcons/Saints games are going to be insane.

 

[Erzengel]

Pittsburgh has done it. In 2010, he got a 8 year, $102 million dollar contract.

 

[Warhammer]

Pittsburgh has done it. In 2010, he got a 8 year, $102 million dollar contract.

Wow, that slipped my mind. Well, I'm editing my post now.

 

[Erzengel]

That offense is too nasty. Falcons/Saints games are going to be insane.

And while the Falcons defense has never been top 10. Their defenses has fluctuated between 12th and 24th in the league since Ryan has been there. I don't think the Falcon's defense could ever be described as bad. However, should be noted that the 26th and 31st ranked defenses met in Super Bowl 46. Bottom line the Falcons shouldn't really have an excuse.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well it also depends on what camp you fall into. The it takes more than a QB to win a SB or you need an above average QB to win a SB.

I lean more towards the latter. It's been a decade and over since Dilfer and Johnson and if you judging from the past Super Bowls it seems you do need a top QB to win. Say what you want about Flacco, he's better than Dilfer or Johnson.

I understand what you are saying about 100 million dollars and QBs who can't make it further in the post season. I think Ryan has graduated to the class with Rivers and Romo. 3 QBs who are definitely good QBs but their ceilings are looking more like Fouts if they never make it further.

While I do think they are overpaid, if the Falcons didn't lock up Ryan, there are at least 12 teams that would snatch him up. He's definitely a top 10 QB and I can't fault the Falcons for doing what's necessary to keep him. Ask the Jets looking for the next Namath, the Bills Kelly and the Dolphins Marino how easy it is to find the next franchise QB.

Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees. I wouldn't put Ryan in front of Roethlisberger or Eli. Like I said definitely top 10.

And I agree with Warhammer, Ryan has had Turner, White and Gonzalez since he was drafted. Then Julio Jones and now Steven Jackson? I've said that there are 2 types of QBs, ones who elevate the play of those around them and ones that need help from their teams. While, I would say that Ryan fits in the former, he does have a lot of top receiver/running back help.

I absolutely would put Ryan in front of Eli, and at this point, probably ahead of Ben as well.

I think Eli is the perfect example you're looking for. I don't buy into the media hype of Eli. I think he's riding a wave of overblown media hype because he rode a dominate defensive line to 2 Super Bowl championships that he otherwise had no business winning, and the media is cashing in on the easy dollars of "Peyton v. Eli"

I really don't think Eli is anywhere near top 5, and if I was building a team today with my pick of any QB in the league, Eli wouldn't be anywhere near anything I'd be looking at. You got guys like Peyton and Brady who are flat out better and arguably 2 of the top 3 QB's to ever play the game, guys like Ryan or Rodgers who are better and younger, or the full on youth movement of guys like RGIII, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, etc.

Eli is a good QB who's backed up every few years by luck and defense, and has the backing of ESPN to drive up his stock.

 

[Erzengel]

That would have been a more apt discussion after 2008. But Eli carried his team in 2011. The Giants had the 31st ranked running game, and 26th ranked defense that year. That post season he broke the record for passing yardage. And while his QBR or his completion % during the regular season isn't where some others are, he's on track to hit 40k passing yards by next season, which only 14 other QBs have done. 7 are HOFers, 3 will be. 2 years from then he can hit 300 TDs, which only 7 other QBs have done.

I'm not saying Eli is the best QB or even better than his brother. But, at the end of his career he's going to have a lot on his resume other than just 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

And if you think Eli, is the only QB who has benefitted from luck? It just gets overblown because it happened on the biggest stage.

 

[runawayboulder]

How is ESPN over-hyping Eli? They're too busy talking about the Jets and over-hyping RGIII and Kapernick.

 

[Kaleb]

FOX Sports' Jay Glazer reports the Broncos fear C Dan Koppen tore his ACL during Sunday's training camp practice.

 

[Matt]

I'm torn on the whole RGIII thing when it comes to Shanahan.

On one hand, I agree, he was stupid for continuing to play RGIII. On the other hand, in the playoffs, you play to win. It doesn't matter if you're not supposed to beat the next team or not. You're in the playoffs, you're playing for it all. Not supposed to go deep sure didn't stop the Giants in 2 separate years.

Maybe so, but Shanahan is not just the coach. He is the VP of Football Operations and effectively the GM. He has to think bigger than one game or one season. RGIII is the future of the franchise. Even if he were just the coach, he still has an obligation to his players to protect them. Playoffs or not, you don't play someone who is clearly that injured. He should've been fired. And if Snyder wasn't willing to do it, Goodell should've put his money where his mouth is. If he is serious about player safety, he ought to have levied a big fat suspension on Shanahan.

 

[Matt]

How is ESPN over-hyping Eli? They're too busy talking about the Jets and over-hyping RGIII and Kapernick.

Don't forget over-hyping Russell Wilson. IMO, all three are going to have huge slumps. DCs have had a whole season to watch film and plan for them. The slump is inevitable.

 

[Matt]

That would have been a more apt discussion after 2008. But Eli carried his team in 2011. The Giants had the 31st ranked running game, and 26th ranked defense that year. That post season he broke the record for passing yardage. And while his QBR or his completion % during the regular season isn't where some others are, he's on track to hit 40k passing yards by next season, which only 14 other QBs have done. 7 are HOFers, 3 will be. 2 years from then he can hit 300 TDs, which only 7 other QBs have done.

I'm not saying Eli is the best QB or even better than his brother. But, at the end of his career he's going to have a lot on his resume other than just 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

And if you think Eli, is the only QB who has benefitted from luck? It just gets overblown because it happened on the biggest stage.

I'll say it. Eli > Peyton. I don't like Eli, personally. I think he is a spoiled little baby who rode his brother's name to a great D1 school and then awards and a draft position that he didn't deserve (both Roethlisberger and Rivers are more talented than him and should've gone ahead of him). The **** he pulled with San Diego is beyond reproach. That being said, he is better than Peyton.

Peyton is a great statistical quarterback, he is great at breaking records, but he can't bring home titles. The only reason he even has one ring is because the Colts snuck into the Super Bowl in a year when the Patriots were crazy injured and the Steelers were suffering from a Super Bowl hangover. And even then, they still nearly lost both the divisional and conference championship rounds. The Colts then went on to beat the single worst team to ever make it to a Super Bowl. Peyton got lucky. All the stars aligned perfectly and he STILL struggled in the 2006 playoffs.

I hate using this term, but it applies here: Peyton isn't clutch. Eli is. In the playoffs, Eli is just a different man than he is in the regular season. Peyton is the better regular season QB. But if it were a huge game or the season were on the line, I'd pick Eli every damn time. And for that reason, Eli is better than Peyton, IMO.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

RGIII is every bit as impressive of an athlete as AP. I am confident he will recover to full strength, this time. Next time he may not be as lucky. He really needs to change his game. RGIII isn't Michael Vick or Vince Young. He is actually a decent passer without the scrambling. He needs to learn how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball without taking hits. He needs to learn to only scramble when necessary and how to slide. He has the talent to be a traditional NFL quarterback. He needs to become one. Otherwise his career will be short lived.

Furthermore, Shanahan should've been fired last year. Dan Snyder bet his entire franchise's foreseeable future on RGIII and Shanahan played him injured to win a ****ing wildcard game when there was no chance of the Skins going any further (even if they beat Seattle, which I think they would've done if not for RGIII's injury). It was stupid, shortsighted, and could've ended RGIII's career. Snyder should've shown Shanahan the door, IMO.

Dude, let it go. Washington would have never won that game regardless. Seattle pretty much quieted doubters the moment they adjusted to Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner and Roddy White. RG3 is a better passer than Vick and Young but he was wayyyy overhyped by the media last year. RG3 struggled with tight-window passes and out routes. At this point, I think Wilson is the better passer between them both to be honest. Russell didn't rely on dumpoffs, bubble screens and short yardage passes to move the chains. That, and he thrived in traditional formations too.

 

[Matt]

Dude, let it go. Washington would have never won that game regardless. Seattle pretty much quieted doubters the moment they adjusted to Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner and Roddy White. RG3 is a better passer than Vick and Young but he was wayyyy overhyped by the media last year. RG3 struggled with tight-window passes and out routes. At this point, I think Wilson is the better passer between them both to be honest. Russell didn't rely on dumpoffs, bubble screens and short yardage passes to move the chains. That, and he thrived in traditional formations too.

We shall see.

 

[Erzengel]

Someone call Jeff Saturday. Broncos Center Koppen will probably be out for year with torn ACL.

 

[Erzengel]

Dude, let it go. Washington would have never won that game regardless. Seattle pretty much quieted doubters the moment they adjusted to Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner and Roddy White. RG3 is a better passer than Vick and Young but he was wayyyy overhyped by the media last year. RG3 struggled with tight-window passes and out routes. At this point, I think Wilson is the better passer between them both to be honest. Russell didn't rely on dumpoffs, bubble screens and short yardage passes to move the chains. That, and he thrived in traditional formations too.

Plus Wilson has this.