A Case For Creation

[squeekness]

I'm not sure if there are different meanings to Elohim, but I do know through my various studies including Jewish people who reject Jesus and are not christian, have confirmed that Elohim as used in Genesis, is plural, but with a unification as one.

I thought that in some instances, Elohim referred also to the Heavenly hosts full of angels, that it can also be used to describe anything (alive?) that resides in Heaven like the angels and cherubum.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Exactly, CJ!

And the title/name in the original language and source scripture has it written 'Elohim.' Elohim means a group united as one. It is, in fact, plural, yet one?

Now I may not know all about Elohim, or do I have a CD rom like Kess has. But I do know that if someone say Us or our, he's not talking about himself alone. Either that or he's talking to himself

 

[rodhulk]

I know the Catholic faith is flawed, I am not a solid Catholic. I was to a degree surprised they allowed me to "pass" my initiation class considering some of the questions I asked and my strong liberal leanings. I think that the teachers saw how earnestly I was seeking and reading and unlike others who go through the class, I wasn't doing it just to get married or be a godparent.

I really like how you are approaching things in your christianity, Squeek.

I myself, back in 1990 when I became a christain, actually, it was really 1992, but I began my studies back in 1990. For about two years, until I accepted the Lord in 1992, I tested all the faiths to the best I could, to find who seemed to really have the Spirit leading the faith. I believed that, as scripture says, 'if you seek, you will find.' It took me to years, but thanks be to God, he led me to what I personally still believe to this day.

My big obstacle that I went through was between 'born again christianity' and the Jehovah's Witness's.' I had friends that I was able to meet of both faiths. I had many things taught/shown to me. It was tough. They both had strong arguments. Kessel offers strong arguments too, she is well versed in the scriptures, as the JW's often are. But, through a bit of time, I found the errors of their ways both through the Watchtower and their scripture understandings that so often would make God out to be a liar. Plus, there position on Israel, that Israel's covenants were no longer in effect was wrong. These covenants were everlasting, unconditional, so they must still be today.

In 1992, I believe, led by the Spirit, that I had found my true faith. I became a born again believer in that year.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Kessel offers strong arguments too, he is well versed in the scriptures, as the JW's often are.

Ah...Rodhulk......Kess is a she

 

[rodhulk]

Now I may not know all about Elohim, or do I have a CD rom like Kess has. But I do know that if someone say Us or our, he's not talking about himself alone. Either that or he's talking to himself

Yeah, also at the Tower of Babel, God said: Let 'us' go....

Rest assued, CJ, there is more than one person in the Godhead. We don't inderstand it all, how the trinity works, some people, if they don't understand, they reject it, but even the followers of Christ who lived with Christ questioned him on events, such as in Acts 1.

I kinda like to use a comic example on the trinity. Thing of the Living Tribunal; 3 heads, but one body. Each head has different roles, but they are all as one.

 

[rodhulk]

Ah...Rodhulk......Kess is a she

Heh... You know something, you're right. I remember now from awhile ago. Short memory I have.

 

[rodhulk]

I thought that in some instances, Elohim referred also to the Heavenly hosts full of angels, that it can also be used to describe anything (alive?) that resides in Heaven like the angels and cherubum.

You could be correct. I guess I was just concerned about the meaning of the word when it was made in reference to God.

 

[squeekness]

I really like how you are approaching things in your christianity, Squeek.

I myself, back in 1990 when I became a christain, actually, it was really 1992, but I began my studies back in 1990. For about two years, until I accepted the Lord in 1992, I tested all the faiths to the best I could, to find who seemed to really have the Spirit leading the faith. I believed that, as scripture says, 'if you seek, you will find.' It took me to years, but thanks be to God, he led me to what I personally still believe to this day.

My big obstacle that I went through was between 'born again christianity' and the Jehovah's Witness's.' I had friends that I was able to meet of both faiths. I had many things taught/shown to me. It was tough. They both had strong arguments. Kessel offers strong arguments too, he is well versed in the scriptures, as the JW's often are. But, through a bit of time, I found the errors of their ways both through the Watchtower and their scripture understandings that so often would make God out to be a liar. Plus, there position on Israel, that Israel's covenants were no longer in effect was wrong. These covenants were everlasting, unconditional, so they must still be today.

The only major issues I have with Witnesses and Born Agains, (no offense) is the addittude that they are the only ones who have it absolutely right. In my opinion, the Bible is more than just the History of the Jews, it's about us trying to figure out the unfathomable. When Ezikiel (?) described seeing a Person on the Heavenly Throne, he used the words, "one like the Son of Man ". He was forced to use the word 'like' because there are no human words capable of describing such a sight. All the various books of the Bible are subtley different because you have all these different people trying to work out something we simply aren't capable of. God is so OTHER than us, it is arrogant, pure and simple, for anyone to say they know absolutely know it all. We are at the point perhaps, that we are cavemen looking at a space station when it comes to us seeing God. I resist anyone trying to tell me they have it all figured out, the same way I refute anyone's claim that there is no life on other planets. I mean, how can you possibly absolutely refute life elsewhere when we've never even left the solar system? It's human arrogance. We cannot know God, not absolutely. We can approach (metaphorically) the hem of his gown and feel the warm glow of his love and grace and the intoxicating rush of his Spirit. But that is not the same as saying we know him. He is not like us, His ways are not our ways, He is perfect and we are the first draft. He left us clues on how to get closer, through proper moral conduct and sharing in his grace and mercy. That is why I say that we have to work on those things, not so much trying to figure out exactly WHO or WHAT God is. We're just not ready yet to know.

 

[rodhulk]

The only major issues I have with Witnesses and Born Agains, (no offense) is the addittude that they are the only ones who have it absolutely right. In my opinion, the Bible is more than just the History of the Jews, it's about us trying to figure out the unfathomable. When Ezikiel (?) described seeing a Person on the Heavenly Throne, he used the words, "one like the Son of Man ". He was forced to use the word 'like' because there are no human words capable of describing such a sight. All the various books of the Bible are subtley different because you have all these different people trying to work out something we simply aren't capable of. God is so OTHER than us, it is arrogant, pure and simple, for anyone to say they know absolutely know it all. We are at the point perhaps, that we are cavemen looking at a space station when it comes to us seeing God. I resist anyone trying to tell me they have it all figured out, the same way I refute anyone's claim that there is no life on other planets. I mean, how can you possibly absolutely refute life elsewhere when we've never even left the solar system? It's human arrogance. We cannot know God, not absolutely. We can approach (metaphorically) the hem of his gown and feel the warm glow of his love and grace and the intoxicating rush of his Spirit. But that is not the same as saying we know him. He is not like us, His ways are not our ways, He is perfect and we are the first draft. He left us clues on how to get closer, through proper moral conduct and sharing in his grace and mercy. That is why I say that we have to work on those things, not so much trying to figure out exactly WHO or WHAT God is. We're just not ready yet to know.

Well, like I said, you can belong to any faith/church because God judges you as person, an individual.

And I would say we are ready to know some things on who God is or else why did the Bible talk so much about him? Isn't the Bible meant for us, to learn from?

But rest assured, you can remain a catholic, just stay true to the truth.

 

[squeekness]

The Bible speaks to us but it doesn't give us the whole picture. It gives us what we think we can handle at the time. The Old Testament tells us that God created the world but not HOW he did it. Old Testament spoke of God often in violent terms because we were then a violent race.

Then, when we were ready for more, Jesus came and showed us a better way. We had matured. (All things being relative. )

God is reaching out to us and we are learning and the Bible is a tool for that. The Bible displays for us God's work in the world, but it doesn't tell us everything we need to know, beyond the fact that he loves us absolutely and we should love him in return. You won't know the secrets of the universe from reading the Bible. You won't learn what God IS because we cannot comprehend it. Reading Sciptures can help us to try and understand God and why he does what he does and to reach a better understanding of things, but you'll never learn it ALL from the Bible. No way.

 

[Cracker Jack]

we are cavemen looking at a space station when it comes to us seeing God. I resist anyone trying to tell me they have it all figured out, ....

LOL Cavemen LOL I like it. And you should resist anyone who "Has it all figured out." Like Rodhulk said, If you search, you will find what you're looking for. I will tell you this, that I believe Jesus when he said " I am the way, the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[squeekness]

LOL Cavemen LOL I like it. And you should resist anyone who "Has it all figured out." Like Rodhulk said, If you search, you will find what you're looking for. I will tell you this, that I believe Jesus when he said " I am the way, the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father except through me."

Amen to that. See, ya gotta keep it simple.

 

[rodhulk]

The Bible speaks to us but it doesn't give us the whole picture. It gives us what we think we can handle at the time. The Old Testament tells us that God created the world but not HOW he did it. Old Testament spoke of God often in violent terms because we were then a violent race.

Then, when we were ready for more, Jesus came and showed us a better way. We had matured. (All things being relative. )

God is reaching out to us and we are learning and the Bible is a tool for that. The Bible displays for us God's work in the world, but it doesn't tell us everything we need to know, beyond the fact that he loves us absolutely and we should love him in return. You won't know the secrets of the universe from reading the Bible. You won't learn what God IS because we cannot comprehend it. Reading Sciptures can help us to try and understand God and why he does what he does and to reach a better understanding of things, but you'll never learn it ALL from the Bible. No way.

Again, I'll agree with you, Squeek.

Do note, though, that's what I kinda said above. We don't understand everything about the trinity, we just understand that God has revealed his trinity nature to us.

You'll never learn all from the scriptures, but there's alot more to learn from the scriptures if we give them a chance. If it's in there, it's for us to know, whther fully or partially, but it's there for us.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Yeah, also at the Tower of Babel, God said: Let 'us' go....

Rest assued, CJ, there is more than one person in the Godhead. We don't inderstand it all, how the trinity works, some people, if they don't understand, they reject it, but even the followers of Christ who lived with Christ questioned him on events, such as in Acts 1.

I kinda like to use a comic example on the trinity. Thing of the Living Tribunal; 3 heads, but one body. Each head has different roles, but they are all as one.

It could also be that the "God" of the Bible was an alien, just like all of the "gods" of ancient mythology were aliens (remember: religions are just mythologies that people still believe in...). They were afraid of humanity's impressive technological progress at a time when we all spoke the same language and shared the same culture, and so they decided to put an end to this "Tower of Babel", whatever it was (a rocketship? a telecommunications array?).

 

[Danalys]

or as science can tell us from looking at cause and effect. it could be a methaphore for the evolution of man kind.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

or as science can tell us from looking at cause and effect. it could be a methaphore for the evolution of man kind.

But you have to keep in mind the "missing link". Approximately 300,000 years ago, there was an amazing evolutionary leap foward, from primitive ape-man to something very close to modern man, in merely a few generations. That's potentially millions of years of human evolution that happened all at once. What was the external factor responsible for this? God? Aliens who decided to accelerate our evolution somehow (or perhaps re-create us in their own image?)? Until we build a time machine, we'll never know for certain. But according to Sumerian mythology, the reptilian Anunnaki "gods" from the star Sirius decided to use their own blood and the blood of a primitive ape-man in order to create a new race of hybrid slaves precisely 300,000 years ago, the Adamu (interesting name there), the human race (which was later redesigned to become more mortal and less reproductive after the Great Flood, approximately 10,000 years ago). I love Sumerian mythology.

 

[Danalys]

it's punctuated equilibrium sum of god. try to read more about it.

 

[Cracker Jack]

. But according to Sumerian mythology, the reptilian Anunnaki "gods" from the star Sirius decided to use their own blood and the blood of a primitive ape-man in order to create a new race of hybrid slaves precisely 300,000 years ago, the Adamu (interesting name there), the human race (which was later redesigned to become more mortal and less reproductive after the Great Flood, approximately 10,000 years ago). I love Sumerian mythology.

Sums, I'm begining to think that you don't actually believe what you're typing.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

But you have to keep in mind the "missing link". Approximately 300,000 years ago, there was an amazing evolutionary leap foward, from primitive ape-man to something very close to modern man, in merely a few generations. That's potentially millions of years of human evolution that happened all at once. What was the external factor responsible for this? God? Aliens who decided to accelerate our evolution somehow (or perhaps re-create us in their own image?)? Until we build a time machine, we'll never know for certain. But according to Sumerian mythology, the reptilian Anunnaki "gods" from the star Sirius decided to use their own blood and the blood of a primitive ape-man in order to create a new race of hybrid slaves precisely 300,000 years ago, the Adamu (interesting name there), the human race (which was later redesigned to become more mortal and less reproductive after the Great Flood, approximately 10,000 years ago). I love Sumerian mythology.

Wait, so in Sumerian mythology there was a great flood? What was the cause? And what happened to the race of hybrid slaves?

 

[Danalys]

Sums, I'm begining to think that you don't actually believe what you're typing.

ooo good idea. thus i know the tactic he is employing and it's end. depends if this is fun for him or not tho.

 

[squeekness]

If I am not mistaken, the Tower of Babel was a symbol of man's arrogance. Some guys thought if they built a big enough tower, they could reach the heavens and conquer it (?) maybe or become as is God is themselves. Obviously that little ploy didn't work and the tower fell.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Sums, I'm begining to think that you don't actually believe what you're typing.

As I've mentionned very often, I cannot allow myself to "believe" in ANYTHING if I wish to remain objective as a researcher, but I do lend credibility to Sumerian mythology, yes.

 

[Danalys]

actually you've said this is your work before haven't you sum. does it calm you to read about this stuff? have you ever tried to plot out your own myth?

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Wait, so in Sumerian mythology there was a great flood? What was the cause? And what happened to the race of hybrid slaves?

A) Yes, Sumerian mythology is the most ancient mythology on Earth, and it's well-known account of the Great Flood pre-dates that of the Book of Genesis by at least two millenia. The two accounts are so similar, it seems obvious that whoever wrote the Book of Genesis inspired himself from the earlier Sumerian story. B) The extraterrestrial "gods" of Sumerian myth decided to wipe out the first version of the human race, the "Adamu" as they called them, simply because they reproduced too much. Massive world overpopulation was the motivation. But a few managed to survive, with the help of Enki, the direct creator of the human race. C) WE, human beings, are the race of hybrid slaves. After the Great Flood, approximately 10,000 years ago, the Adamu were redesigned to have a natural aging process (we didn't grow old before), and to breed in smaller numbers and with greater difficulty.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

actually you've said this is your work before haven't you sum. does it calm you to read about this stuff? have you ever tried to plot out your own myth?

I'm a paranormal investigator/conspiracy theorist, and I'm simply saying that of all the mythologies on Earth, Sumerian myth makes the most sense and answers the most questions. What are you implying?