A Case For Creation

[logansoldcigar]

I need to look up Pantheism.

nah, thats the worship of the almighty levi and his enormous trouser. the satan equivalent, is of course, the demaon casualslacks

 

[Maxwell Smart]

it's pointless to call it god tho unless it serves some extra purpose too. such as beleiving things are speccial in a way that is set up to benafit yourself or others. perhaps still clinging to the idea of an after life.

I think there might be an afterlife, actually. We only understand the physical world(and that one not completely by any means), not other dimensions of our universe that may exist. Just because our physical existence ends, why does that mean beings don't continue to exist in other dimensions? I think what happens after death is a process we just don't understand yet.

I'm a bit of a believer in subtle bodies and such I guess.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

An illusion?

Explain.

Think "The Matrix" but replace robots with God.

Theres a theory that all reality actually happens within the mind of God.

 

[Danalys]

possibility but no reason to entertain the thought as any kind of probability.

 

[Bill]

From that whole list you "still" have not given one solid fact to lay your head on. Not one!! And you say that "WE" are the only ones that use faith?? LOL
You are puttin an awful lot of faith in theories!! It takes more faith to believe that something came form nothing than to believe in a master intelligence behind such complexity.
Notice that I'm not calling you names or dumbing down your education.

As usual, you missed the point of the post. Not only that, you don't seem to know the definition of "theory." I'd look that up. I'd also like you to quote a scientist who says "something came from nothing." Otherwise, you've managed to construct yet another post that exhibits your lack of knowledge in science. And don't worry about me dumbing down your education, you seem to be doing that all by yourself.

Well, well, well....Mr. Wizard, check out this list of non-intellectuals....
Isaac Newton the Newtonian Revolution Anglican (rejected Trinitarianism, i.e., Athanasianism;
believed in the Arianism of the Primitive Church)
Albert Einstein Twentieth-Century Science Jewish
Neils Bohr the Atom Jewish Lutheran

Louis Pasteur the Germ Theory of Disease Catholic

Galileo Galilei the New Science Catholic
Antoine Laurent Lavoisier the Revolution in Chemistry Catholic
Johannes Kepler Motion of the Planets Lutheran
Nicolaus Copernicus the Heliocentric Universe Catholic (priest)
Michael Faraday the Classical Field Theory Sandemanian
James Clerk Maxwell the Electromagnetic Field Presbyterian; Anglican; Baptist
Claude Bernard the Founding of Modern Physiology
Franz Boas Modern Anthropology Jewish

Now I could go on.....but you mean to tell me that this of the biggest brains on the planet are disqualified because they believed the Biblical account of creation?? Are you really that arrogant to say that??

Aside the fact that the entire above post is an Appeal to Authority(that's a fallacy of logic, you may want to look it up) do any of those people have something to do with Evolutionary Biology? And do you really think that their decision to believe it makes it any more valid than the Ingersoll's, Hawking's and Gould's of the world decision not to? I don't. Reminds me of a Dan Barker quote, "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?"

Also, are you going to address what I posted? Or are you going to continue dodging?

 

[bored]

No ..I got your point. But you can see it from another angle. That's all. I know that's not the angle you prefer. But it is very logical to assume that order demands that there was someone to put it in order. The table is set, the punch was mixed and in the bowl. The table was there. Now on a small scale like that, the "super-natural" is nothing to even consider. But on a cosmic scale, it would take a super-natural being to create such natural order......such delicate balance.

What are the chances of my throwing a loose jigsaw puzzle in the air and it coming down to the ground with every piece in place?? How about just one piece falling in place by itself??

It is physically possible, though HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

possibility but no reason to entertain the thought as any kind of probability.

What? The thing I was saying about afterlife, and subtle bodies? Or the "existence in the mind of God" thing?

The former I know there isn't any scientific evidence for.. I believe this because of personal experiences.

 

[bored]

well, I'm glad you brought that up. It seems to me, that if the big bang is true (in that it was an accident) then that would automatically mean (actually this is a paradox because if that is true their is no meaning...at all- even this one) their is absolutely no meaning to life, but yet evolution says that through natural selection species evolve. This puts a purpose for their being life, and it also gives consciousness to natural selection thus making pantheism a reality.

Evolution doesn't create purpose. Evolution is merely a process, with no known end result beyond survival, which is a Pandora's Box, in itself.

 

[Addendum]

I think this is all one big experiment and that life, ultimately, is nothing more than an illusion.

And so I post this quote again...

“Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and I am content.” - Robert E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast, Weird Tales 1934

 

[Bill]

And so I post this quote again...

“Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and I am content.” - Robert E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast, Weird Tales 1934

Conan f'n rules.

 

[Danalys]

What? The thing I was saying about afterlife, and subtle bodies? Or the "existence in the mind of God" thing?

The former I know there isn't any scientific evidence for.. I believe this because of personal experiences.

it doesn't matter so much. believe what you will.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

it doesn't matter so much. believe what you will.

I've had experiences with Astral projection.

 

[Addendum]

well, I'm glad you brought that up. It seems to me, that if the big bang is true (in that it was an accident) then that would automatically mean (actually this is a paradox because if that is true their is no meaning...at all- even this one) their is absolutely no meaning to life, but yet evolution says that through natural selection species evolve. This puts a purpose for their being life, and it also gives consciousness to natural selection thus making pantheism a reality.

How about individuals find meaning for their own lives, however they so choose to do so?

 

[Danalys]

I've had experiences with Astral projection.

best not to presume to know what was happening or how or why.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

best not to presume to know what was happening or how or why.

*shrugs*

It was a very weird experience. I woke up in bed, and couldn't feel anything. I couldn't move, I felt paralyzed. Everything seemed more vivid, and it seemed like the entire room was vibrating. I could HEAR it. Anyway, I tried to sit up and to my shock I felt myself actually sitting up even though I knew I still couldn't move, as weird as that sounds. As I did this I heard a tearing kind of sound, it sounded like static kinda. I let myself go and soon as I did I felt myself immediately drop back down, and like a pressure as if I was being pushed down as it happened.

The paralysis went away and I got up. So its not as if I was dreaming, I knew I wasn't.

I found a wikipedia article on a condition called sleep paralysis, which is known to sometimes cause auditory and visual hallucinations, but I don't understand how it could have caused an out of body experience. Then I read about Astral projection and a common thing I found in many accounts is that before people project, they go into a "vibrational state", and they described hearing a static-like noise upon seperating from the physical body.

 

[Danalys]

the people who have wrote about asteral projection don't have anymore incling of the truth of the matter than you or i.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

the people who have wrote about asteral projection don't have anymore incling of the truth of the matter than you or i.

Yeah but they shared a similar experience. So its not like it is in the imagination.

Some people claim you can induce it willfully, and have claimed to have roamed about. Myself I only seperated this one time. The other times I had sleep paralysis I didn't seperate, I just laid there.

Now I never have it anymore. I actually wish I did because I've decided next time I'm going to seperate and I'm not gonna get scared and go back, I'm going to try wondering about.

 

[Danalys]

shared experience doesn't matter when it comes to the truth. each experience warrents it's own investigation.

 

[Bill]

*shrugs*

It was a very weird experience. I woke up in bed, and couldn't feel anything. I couldn't move, I felt paralyzed. Everything seemed more vivid, and it seemed like the entire room was vibrating. I could HEAR it. Anyway, I tried to sit up and to my shock I felt myself actually sitting up even though I knew I still couldn't move, as weird as that sounds. As I did this I heard a tearing kind of sound, it sounded like static kinda. I let myself go and soon as I did I felt myself immediately drop back down, and like a pressure as if I was being pushed down as it happened.

The paralysis went away and I got up. So its not as if I was dreaming, I knew I wasn't.

I found a wikipedia article on a condition called sleep paralysis, which is known to sometimes cause auditory and visual hallucinations, but I don't understand how it could have caused an out of body experience. Then I read about Astral projection and a common thing I found in many accounts is that before people project, they go into a "vibrational state", and they described hearing a static-like noise upon seperating from the physical body.

This could probably warrant it's own thread and an interesting one at that. I've had experiences where I was still asleep, but thought I was awake and I couldn't move. I was lucid, and when that condition occurs, I usually feel intensely vulnerable and I will try to struggle to full wakefullness. In my sleep state, I'm moving and struggling, but when I awake, the sheets are hardly mussed. I've never heard the term "sleep paralysis," but that seems to describe it very well.

As an aside, I'd love to learn how to have more lucid dreaming.

 

[etrigan69]

I always find it funny that Creationalist's want to use their twisted view of science without ever using one of the basic tools of science. Occam's Razor.

Again, I never understood why someone who claims a belief in God, which is about pure faith, not science, would even try to use "science" to prove God. From my understanding you are sorely lacking in faith and in danger of being roasted eternally. "If you believe that sort of thing”.

 

[lazur]

I always find it funny that Creationalist's want to use their twisted view of science without ever using one of the basic tools of science. Occam's Razor.

Again, I never understood why someone who claims a belief in God, which is about pure faith, not science, would even try to use "science" to prove God. From my understanding you are sorely lacking in faith and in danger of being roasted eternally. "If you believe that sort of thing”.

You are mistaking those who adhere to 'scripture' or some other religious doctrine with those who don't, but still believe in an intelligent creator. Those who are religious do not (or should not) seek to prove the existance of God, in accordance with their 'faith', so in that way you're right. But those who do not practice religion or acknowledge a higher being as 'God' can still attempt to prove the existance of a higher power without 'burning in hell'.

 

[celldog]

we have experience of people doing those things tho. so we can presume the same is happening again. we have no experience of universes being created tho.

But "experience" isn't the only teacher.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

You are mistaking those who adhere to 'scripture' or some other religious doctrine with those who don't, but still believe in an intelligent creator. Those who are religious do not (or should not) seek to prove the existance of God, in accordance with their 'faith', so in that way you're right. But those who do not practice religion or acknowledge a higher being as 'God' can still attempt to prove the existance of a higher power without 'burning in hell'.

Belief in a creator even without religious doctrine requires faith.

 

[celldog]

Think "The Matrix" but replace robots with God.

Theres a theory that all reality actually happens within the mind of God.

Then don't lock your doors at night. Illusions can't break in and hurt you. Don't pay your light bill......money is just an illusion. The power company will understand.


The Matrix is SCi Fi....... LOL

 

[celldog]

Conan f'n rules.

YES!! I DO!!