A Case For Creation

[Danalys]

all the more important that we have broad horizons then. i create the new by looking at the old with new eyes.

 

[celldog]

And this: "There are none more ignorant and useless, than they that seek answers on their knees, with their eyes closed." Anon - Posted by Bill was a quote you chose to take personally.


How else do you take this? "Ignorant & Useless" because I won't close my eyes and wish away the possibility of a creator??? Go back a read any of my posts. Even if I thought your views were baseless fiction, with your hopeful monsters being found false or your trying to get the time to increase the probabilites of this order we have, I have never taken a persoanl shot at you.

I can only assume some insecurity.

 

[Danalys]

some people tell the truth but don't tell it nicely.

 

[celldog]

all the more important that we have broad horizons then. i create the new by looking at the old with new eyes.

That sounds poetic. But it's not possible. There's not a new thought under the sun. Everything is just repackaged.

 

[Danalys]

i write logical poetry. invention exists.

 

[celldog]

some people tell the truth but don't tell it nicely.

See.....another jab. You guys can't help yourselves can you?

The truth? So...I'm ignorant ....he just didn't know how to say it...right?

Just respond to the facts given. That's how you debate. You guys are the ones taking things personally. Why else do you go with "childish" name-calling.

 

[Danalys]

you can also see harm where there is none ment.

 

[celldog]

i write logical poetry. invention exists.

Sure it does. But thoughts...philosophy...behavior....nothing new.

You know that there were Anti-War protests during the civil war??

 

[Danalys]

invention is the right mix of all those. happenstance creates the new in evolution.

 

[celldog]

you can also see harm where there is none ment.

Then maybe you should re-state you original comment. Written the way it is, it's a jab.


Civility is at a low level on these boards when we disagree. We all get big and bad since we'll never see each other face to face.

Let's just debate the points made........

 

[E. Bison]

The book of Job does mention some creatures that many believe to be dinosaurs. Chater 40 Behemoth and Leviathon

A behemoth is a hippopotamus and a leviathon is a crocadile.

 

[Danalys]

well the comment was true to me. certainly i know we are all ignorant of many things so it is no insult to identify where it is. i also identified the mistake in the comment. in that hate drives people away.

 

[ampersand]

Then maybe you should re-state you original comment. Written the way it is, it's a jab.


Civility is at a low level on these boards when we disagree. We all get big and bad since we'll never see each other face to face.

Let's just debate the points made........

Are you kidding me? You are one of the biggest offenders when it comes to "getting all big and bad" when your views come into question. Almost every one of your posts has a jab in it.

And what's the problem with telling us what Christian denomination you're a member of?

 

[Addendum]

There's what... 100?

Pick one at random

 

[Kessel Day]

That sounds poetic. But it's not possible. There's not a new thought under the sun. Everything is just repackaged.

cd, there are many new thoughts, ideas and inventions. it is one of the ways we imitate our own Creator.

 

[Kessel Day]

A behemoth is a hippopotamus and a leviathon is a crocadile.

good to see you, EB!

 

[Danalys]

ah kessel day my favorite religious person ever.

 

[Bill]

And this: "There are none more ignorant and useless, than they that seek answers on their knees, with their eyes closed." Anon - Posted by Bill was a quote you chose to take personally.


How else do you take this? "Ignorant & Useless" because I won't close my eyes and wish away the possibility of a creator??? Go back a read any of my posts. Even if I thought your views were baseless fiction, with your hopeful monsters being found false or your trying to get the time to increase the probabilites of this order we have, I have never taken a persoanl shot at you.

I can only assume some insecurity.

The problem is that you don't provide any evidence of my "baseless views." You label finds as "hopeful monsters," not because of any substantial evidence against them (and I'm not talking about the two definite errors), but because it poses a problem for your dogma. Even in this post, you chose not to answer the plagarism of your posts.

Is the information true or false? You didn't respond to it. Instead you worry about where I got my information and accuse me of plagarism. What is your answer to the information?

And who says that the Biblical record doesn't agree with fossil record? That's certainly up for debate...even among Christians. Some believe in old earth. Some think it's young earth. All of this is based a literal 6 days or day ages (the "Day of the Lord"...etc.) could be a long period of time.

Either way, this takes nothing away from the main thrust of scripture which is God's plan for sinful mankind. His love for sinners like you and me. It's the typical diversion for those that don't want to believe. Sorta' like where did Cain get his wife. Even if the creation story is cloudy. The life of Christ is crystal clear.

You did plagarize. I wasn't accusing you of anything, I was telling you what you did. I don't want there to be any confusion on that account. As for the information by Dr. Gitt, who doesn't seem to have a degree in astronomy or cosmology, look here. Now, if only you understood the science behind it instead of copy and paste from the website.

And you're one to talk about neglecting to answer responses. You ignore half of what people call you on.

And if scripture agrees with the fossil record, list the order of creation and then list the order of the fossil record. When you want the scientific answer go here. In fact, read Genesis 2 and list the order of creation in that chapter for some extra fun. They don't seem to agree. For those following along, here is a Bible for you.

And now you're coming close to admitting that the Bible just might not be as right as you've been previously preaching. Personally, I don't care about God's plan for sinful mankind or salvation. I suspect we're lucky he didn't drown us or kill our firstborn for not agreeing with him. Sounds loving to me. Quite frankly, I'd thank him to keep his psychotic mitts away from me.

One last thing, rest assured that there is nothing on AiG dealing with science that science doesn't have an answer for. Most of their arguments have been refuted years and years ago. I gave a link to TalkOrigin's list of creationist arguments. They have all the bases covered, with real references to books and real scientists who actually work in the field they are commenting on. Imagine that.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Personally, I don't care about God's plan for sinful mankind or salvation. I suspect we're lucky he didn't drown us or kill our firstborn for not agreeing with him. Sounds loving to me. Quite frankly, I'd thank him to keep his psychotic mitts away from me.

God as described in the Bible is a bastard. His behavior is on par with Gengis Khan or any other brutal dictator from ancient times.

 

[Danalys]

he weilds the carrot and the stick. i prefer the carrot as a motivator.

 

[Bill]

God as described in the Bible is a bastard. His behavior is on par with Gengis Khan or any other brutal dictator from ancient times.

Actually, he makes them all look like pikers. There must have been millions and millions drowned in the flood. And then all the other animals. Thinking of all the babies that must have been around at the time....shudders. Couple that with all the assistance to armies, orders to kill women and children of their enemies. I don't see how people can read over that stuff and proclaim, "God loves us" with a straight face. Maybe it should be, "God loves us as long as we kiss his a$$."

 

[Kessel Day]

I had never heard of AtheistEmprie.com, but I found this appropriately fitting little list there:

TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN​

10- You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.​

i'm not "outraged" when someone denies God's existence. each person has to make that decision for himself.

9- You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.​

neither idea is "dehumanizing" to me. however, the Bible account indicates that we were a special creation of God's and that makes more sense to me because our minds are so much more sophisticated than any animal's.

8- You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.​

the God of the Bible is not a trinity. that doctrine arose centuries after Jesus was on earth and is in direct contradiction to Jesus' own words.

7- Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!​

this is a ridiculous argument comparing apples and oranges.

God is the Judge of the earth and has the right to bring judgment on those whom He chooses. the Canaanites ritually murdered their first born children by throwing them in fires. they deserved death. the Egyptians could have saved their own children by doing just as the Israelites did - something that was well publicized and done after Jehovah had shown many signs that He existed.

Christians today are commanded not to involve themselves in wars - they are to love their enemies. any that do otherwise are disowning their Master.

6- You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.​

Holy Spirit is God's active force; it is the energy that He uses to create. it is not a person. Jesus was not a man-god; he is God's first born Son - His first creation. God resurrected Jesus and made him a spirit person so that he could return to heaven - the place he came from.

5- You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.​

"in the beginning, God created the heaven and earth." the Bible says that the earth is as ancient as the heavens.

4- You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".​

there is no fiery hell. death is unconsciousness. (Eccl 9:5)

the Bible states that there will be a "resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous". all in God's memory will have a chance to know Him and have everlasting life. Jehovah is a God of love and justice.

3- While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.​

speaking in tongues in Bible times was a sign that God's approval had shifted from the Israelites to the Christian congregation. it was gift that actually allowed Christians to speak to others in their native languages. that gift ceased.

i love science myself and have a degree in medieval history.

2- You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.​

God is not the wish-fairy. He promises to strengthen His followers to withstand pressures of this world under any conditions.

1- You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian

​

i know alot about many religions and beliefs. i have siblings that are Hindu, Ba'hai, Catholic, Baptist,and Deist.

 

[Kessel Day]

ah kessel day my favorite religious person ever.

hullo Danalys. good to see you're still interested in this topic.

 

[Kessel Day]

Actually, he makes them all look like pikers. There must have been millions and millions drowned in the flood. And then all the other animals. Thinking of all the babies that must have been around at the time....shudders. Couple that with all the assistance to armies, orders to kill women and children of their enemies. I don't see how people can read over that stuff and proclaim, "God loves us" with a straight face. Maybe it should be, "God loves us as long as we kiss his a$$."

and how do you feel about abortion? capital punishment? wars against other countries?

God at least knows what is in a person's heart and can know what kind of person everyone will grow up to be. unlike humans.

 

[Danalys]

it's a big deal in people's lives so it's important to me.