A contradiction?

[William_C]

None the less, even if Ledger's movies were watchable, to say things like "One of the greatest actors of his generation" (which he may have been but we'll never know as two roles don't prove that) or "Best actor to never win an Oscar" is ridiculous.

I think its safe to say that towards the end of his career that he was picking some demanding roles. I think thats why some reporters and writers choose those words and call him "one of the greats."

 

[Mr. Socko]

Brokeback Mountain (2005) - Let me get this straight...It's a movie about two cowboys, who fall in love and revel in ****ing eachother secretly, and then, they can't anymore? Wow. Never was on my "Movies To Watch" list.

I had no idea who Heath Ledger was before Brokeback Mt but he put on a fantastic performance that garnered him an Academy Award nomination. If you have no interest in it that is fine but it's a film that mattered quite a bit to me and many others. I have been a fan of Ledger's ever since that film in '05. Then in '06(I believe) you find out the very actor from a film that helped you in life has been cast as your favorite comic book villain, it's really a cool moment. I am not wallowing in pity but I did shed a tear as a great man, father, husband, and good actor who showed amazing potential passed away at such a young age and taken away far too soon.

I will address two other points. The first being I agree with your post on page one(to a far less aggressive extent). Some people on the bat-boards are talking of going to Heath's funeral dressed as the Joker in clown makeup. I think that's not the thing to do, but they're just talking as crazy fans at the moment.

Secondly, I think Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker will be outstanding. Unfortunately, his passing away has now deemed the role as the "greatest performance of the decade," and "Oscar worthy." Again, I'm sure it'll be great but now a lot of people aren't really going to judge it on it's own merit, they've already pronounced it the greatest thing of all time just because of his passing.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Ive only seen 10 Things I Hate About You, so i can't really judge his acting but i think it's getting someone blown out of proportion as these things tend to.

 

[Mike_D202]

Oohhhh, I get it, people like Wilhelm-Scream and Matt are disgusted with other people mourning over somebody that they dont even see as a great actor because they dont like any of the movies hes been in (even if they were nominated for a **** load of awards). I would have commented on the "rant" post Matt made but I can see debating with the views of people who never enjoyed anything he was in is a little useless.

Wilhelm-Scream especially being that it looks pretty obvious he hated the new joker angle, which is a pretty crappy reason . : for shame fellas.

 

[Captain Planet!]

People cry over Heath Ledger, they look sad, they feel sad. They act as if this is some kind of horrible thing. The same with Chris Benoit, Eddie Gurero, Chris Farley, Nirvana guy, River Phoenix, etc etc...

It's been maybe two days and Heath is still in the news. It IS a loss that he died. It IS sad...But a mother and four children under 9 just died in a house fire and the news skipped over it as if it was a "cat in a tree" story. How is one death more important than another?

Why is it that it is okay to milk the death of a celebrity, but when honorable just people that effect people on a more down to earth way, when they die....we just turn that cheek and say "sucks for you, man." For instance, one of our fellow posters had made a comment about possibly losing his family and yet all people seem to truly care about is Heath Ledger.

Actors, athletes and musicians do effect people and make you feel emotions, but so could a small child from africa or china if you adopted them and gave them a chance. But there are those who sit there eating a cheeseburger crying over a man they never met.

Is this a double standard? A contradiction? Hypocrisy?

It's like people stopped dying in the middle east let's have america focus on a guy who isn't even THAT famous. This didn't happen when the guy from Drowning Pool died. I loved that song "Bodies", a lot of people did. Some people bought the CD. It's the theme to Rambo, so obviously people recognize the song..

At work, at school, on the news....people are saying Heath Ledger as if he's the pope. Yet when he was chosen to play the Joker, I knew people that called him "The guy from that movie with the gay cowboys..."

What about fathers, mothers, babies, grandparents...you..me? If a poster died..would anyone care?

The only reason 80 percent of this board is mourning his is because he's part of the "Comic book family", And thats the truth wether any of us like or not. I thought he was a great actor, and he seemed like a great guy, I wanted to meet him one day but I never did. And it was so unexpected, thats why its been in the news 22 hours a day. Yes, I feel sad when I hear about people dying all over world, like that pregnant marine. That makes me sick, but I try not to pay attention to things like every death in the news. If everyone mourned the loss of every single person we hear has died today the world would be a hopeless and depressing wasteland of sadness.

 

[DV8]

I don't get this idea, of denying that it's all Joker-based, and saying that instead it's because he's such a great actor who has been in such great movies.

Clowning Around (1992) - Never heard of it.

Black Rock (1997) - Never heard of it.

Paws (1997) - Never heard of it.

10 Thing I Hate About You. (1999) - utter crapola

Two Hands (1999) - Never heard of it.

The Patriot (2000) - Utter Crapperoni

A Knight's Tale (2001) - An Abomination, a crime against cinema.

Monster's Ball (2001) - Laughable crap.

The Four Feathers (2002) - Heard of it, sounded boring, got bad reviews. *shrug*

The Order (2003) - Lame

Lords of Dogtown (2005) - Who cares? They...skateboard? lol

The Brothers Grimm (2005) - Just sad.

Brokeback Mountain (2005) - Let me get this straight...It's a movie about two cowboys, who fall in love and revel in ****ing eachother secretly, and then, they can't anymore? Wow. Never was on my "Movies To Watch" list.

Casanova (2005) -

Candy (2006) - Never heard of it.

I'm Not There (2007) - Sounds mildly interesting. I'll never see it. Bob Dylan sucks. Oddly, his only album that I love was after he became a Christian, "Slow Train Coming".

The Dark Knight (2008) - AWESOME!!! CAN'T WAIT!!! THIS IS GONNA RULE!!! They don't have to waste time with the origin story and setting it all up! The JOKER!! W-I-C-K-E-D!!! Look at the new armor!!





lol, they're mourning the Joker, not "one of the greatest actors of his generation".

I think you kind of went the extremist route with this post, Wil

Although you have a point that a lot of jackasses wouldn't care much about Ledger if he wasn't cast as the Joker, he really is a talented actor . . . you're kind of reducing him to the likes of Freddie Prinze, Jr. or something . . .

 

[Matt]

Oohhhh, I get it, people like Wilhelm-Scream and Matt are disgusted with other people mourning over somebody that they dont even see as a great actor because they dont like any of the movies hes been in (even if they were nominated for a **** load of awards). I would have commented on the "rant" post Matt made but I can see debating with the views of people who never enjoyed anything he was in is a little useless.

Wilhelm-Scream especially being that it looks pretty obvious he hated the new joker angle, which is a pretty crappy reason . : for shame fellas.

I never claimed to dislike his roles. I think he was a good actor. However greatest to never win an Oscar is ridiculously extreme.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Whether he was a great actor or not shouldn't affect the level of mourning.

I have the same amount of sadness for Ledger's death that I would any seemingly decent young father who still had a lot of life to live.

The media immortalizes people, in a sense, and I think that is why his death was more shocking than that of the normal seemingly decent young father.

 

[DBella]

I don't get this idea, of denying that it's all Joker-based, and saying that instead it's because he's such a great actor who has been in such great movies.

Clowning Around (1992) - Never heard of it.

Black Rock (1997) - Never heard of it.

Paws (1997) - Never heard of it.

10 Thing I Hate About You. (1999) - utter crapola

Two Hands (1999) - Never heard of it.

The Patriot (2000) - Utter Crapperoni

A Knight's Tale (2001) - An Abomination, a crime against cinema.

Monster's Ball (2001) - Laughable crap.

The Four Feathers (2002) - Heard of it, sounded boring, got bad reviews. *shrug*

The Order (2003) - Lame

Lords of Dogtown (2005) - Who cares? They...skateboard? lol

The Brothers Grimm (2005) - Just sad.

Brokeback Mountain (2005) - Let me get this straight...It's a movie about two cowboys, who fall in love and revel in ****ing eachother secretly, and then, they can't anymore? Wow. Never was on my "Movies To Watch" list.

Casanova (2005) -

Candy (2006) - Never heard of it.

I'm Not There (2007) - Sounds mildly interesting. I'll never see it. Bob Dylan sucks. Oddly, his only album that I love was after he became a Christian, "Slow Train Coming".

The Dark Knight (2008) - AWESOME!!! CAN'T WAIT!!! THIS IS GONNA RULE!!! They don't have to waste time with the origin story and setting it all up! The JOKER!! W-I-C-K-E-D!!! Look at the new armor!!





lol, they're mourning the Joker, not "one of the greatest actors of his generation".

Although the films he starred in weren't great and didn't make big bucks at the box office, I thought his performance in the films he was in (the ones I've seen) stood out and showed potential. You can still be a good actor (and appreciate good acting) even when the film sucks.

With that post though, I am not sure if you're mocking some of his fans here and being sarcastic or if you're being serious. I find it hard to take posts with " " seriously though.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Whether he was a great actor or not shouldn't affect the level of mourning.

I have the same amount of sadness for Ledger's death that I would any seemingly decent young father who still had a lot of life to live.

The media immortalizes people, in a sense, and I think that is why his death was more shocking than that of the normal seemingly decent young father.

Well said Bamf, Irregardless of what any of us thought of his movies and acting, the sad thing is a young man and father's life has been lost, our basic humanity should find some form of sadness in that.

Both sides of this little argument are prone to hyperbole right now and that clouds the basic tragedy of Heath Ledger's death.

I am not overwrought but i believe others have the right to be, the hyperbolic claims from some of these ppl may be genuinely brought on by emotion, others are simply Joker fans and losing sight of reality, however I'm in no place to judge.

 

[Mike_D202]

I think Cmill216 said it best:

"People are upset about Heath's death. Whether or not there emotions are stronger because he's playing the Joker is really inconsequential. If they're more upset because he was playing an iconic character and they were following his developments in the role, then so be it. What's wrong with that?"

 

[Matt]

I think Cmill216 said it best:

"People are upset about Heath's death. Whether or not there emotions are stronger because he's playing the Joker is really inconsequential. If they're more upset because he was playing an iconic character and they were following his developments in the role, then so be it. What's wrong with that?"

The fact that you are essentially marginalizing the man's life by writing it off as "OMG! TEH JOKER DIEDZ!" and showing regret for no reason other than that. That Batfans (most of them, that is...not all) seem to have no concern for the fact that he left behind a three year old daughter who will now never know her father or that a human being died. All they care about is that THE JOKER died. If you can't see the difference, well, that is your problem.

 

[Matt]

Although the films he starred in weren't great and didn't make big bucks at the box office, I thought his performance in the films he was in (the ones I've seen) stood out and showed potential. You can still be a good actor (and appreciate good acting) even when the film sucks.

With that post though, I am not sure if you're mocking some of his fans here and being sarcastic or if you're being serious. I find it hard to take posts with " " seriously though.

Plenty of good actors pick **** roles. Brendan Fraiser and Ben Affleck are two that come to mind for me. I saw potential in Ledger. But hell, I saw potential in Tommy Maddox too. If he drafted by a team other than the Broncos simply to scare Elway, he may have gone onto have a promising career and be hall-of-fame bound right now, instead of being forced out of the league to the XFL. As it is, he was not drafted by another team. Therefore, his potential was wasted.

The same is true for Ledger. For some of these people to be making claims like "Ledger was the greatest actor of his generation" or "Ledger is the best actor to never win an Oscar." is ridiculous. Could he have been? Sure. Is he? Nope...because his career was cut short and now we will never know. I mean, hell, there is just as good of a chance that he'd get type-cast as the Joker and be relegated to bit parts, self-paradoying cameos and voice over work for the rest of his career. But we'll just never know now. You know the saying..."When someone dies, you not only lose the person but also everything they will ever be."

 

[StorminNorman]

Plenty of good actors pick **** roles. Brendan Fraiser and Ben Affleck are two that come to mind for me. I saw potential in Ledger. But hell, I saw potential in Tommy Maddox too. If he drafted by a team other than the Broncos simply to scare Elway, he may have gone onto have a promising career and be hall-of-fame bound right now, instead of being forced out of the league to the XFL. As it is, he was not drafted by another team. Therefore, his potential was wasted.

The same is true for Ledger. For some of these people to be making claims like "Ledger was the greatest actor of his generation" or "Ledger is the best actor to never win an Oscar." is ridiculous. Could he have been? Sure. Is he? Nope...because his career was cut short and now we will never know. I mean, hell, there is just as good of a chance that he'd get type-cast as the Joker and be relegated to bit parts, self-paradoying cameos and voice over work for the rest of his career. But we'll just never know now. You know the saying..."When someone dies, you not only lose the person but also everything they will ever be."

I would disagree with Ledger though. Between Brokeback Mountain, I'm Not There, Candy and The Lords of Dogstown - Ledger, cricitally, seperated himself from the pack. If the Joker role is as incredible as people say it was - then that adds to the resume.

He will be rememered as an amazing actor. "The Greatest Actor of Our Generation" you could make a case for, just as easily as you could make the case against.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Mike, you should try calming down and reading.
I'm not "disgusted" that people would mourn the loss of an actor that they like.

The thing that disgusted me was the bat-**** delusional cluelessness of thinking that Heath Ledger's loved ones would enjoy seeing a bunch of fans dressed up as a psychotic clown-killer at Heath's funeral.

Or the person who was prepared to jeopardize is JOB, by wearing Joker make-up to work, as some kind of empty, futile "tribute" to a guy who literally couldn't care less.
That's what's mind boggling and lame...the OVER-reaction, not any kind of reaction at all.

As I said, I love Anthony Hopkins, and his best performance was Hannibal, but you'd have to be insane to dress up as Hannibal and go loiter out front of his funeral.

Heath Ledger is a person, a person that none of you knew.
You like his work? Great.

Next, all I said was...if, say, Jack Nicholson died, then I could imagine seeing it as a loss to "acting"...because of his body of work, a "living legend".

Heath Ledger was in a lot of terrible or okay movies, and showed a lot of potential.
And there's no way we can know for sure, but I "know", that if we visited the alternate reality where everything was identical to ours, except they got Crispin Glover to play the Joker...the response would not be as over-bubbling and extravagant.

And all of that is okay, I'm just saying that I don't get the DENIAL...given, the nature of this congregation.

 

[StorminNorman]

Next, all I said was...if, say, Jack Nicholson died, then I could imagine seeing it as a loss to "acting"...because of his body of work, a "living legend".

I would argue that the lost of Ledger is more important to acting than the loss of Nicholson only because Ledger was about to be at the top of his craft where Nicholson has lived out, fully, his remarkably brilliant amazing career.

 

[Danalys]

it's all about the monkey sphere.

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html

 

[Abaddon]

There isn't anything wrong with mourning a celebrity. I would say there is something wrong with putting a dead celebrity on a pedestal because of the last role they played. I think just looking at the batboards the last two days shows that some people have trouble distinguishing between reality and fiction.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I would argue that the lost of Ledger is more important to acting than the loss of Nicholson only because Ledger was about to be at the top of his craft

See, people are saying this.

You don't know that.
J. Nicholson is more important, because time can't erase what we KNOW about him. He DID this stuff.


Do I really have to bore everyone with the ginormous list of super-promising young stars who looked set to ignite the sky over Hollywood who ended up a joke because of a few years of bad decisions?

Are you all time-travellers?
Take me with you next time!

 

[Matt]

I would disagree with Ledger though. Between Brokeback Mountain, I'm Not There, Candy and The Lords of Dogstown - Ledger, cricitally, seperated himself from the pack. If the Joker role is as incredible as people say it was - then that adds to the resume.

He will be rememered as an amazing actor. "The Greatest Actor of Our Generation" you could make a case for, just as easily as you could make the case against.

But the thing is, its too early to tell. This is due to 2 factors:

1) How important those movies will be historically. Will Brokeback Mountain be remembered with Citizen Kane and The Godfather?

2) The other actors of this generation still have full careers ahead of them. Chances are atleast 10 will make far better films than any Ledger has and give better performances. Why? Because they have their whole careers ahead of them. With Ledger we will just never know what may of happened.

 

[roach]

its about time someone with some sense posted about HL. I am sad that he died but life goes on. I do agree that people on this site are mourning because he was playing the joker.

 

[EndofTheWorld]

If your mother died I'm sure you'd mourn a lot more than if a child in Africa died. It's the same thing. While non of us new Heath on a personal level, he was someone who a lot of people loved as an actor and a celebrity. We've watched him on screen an connected with him. You can't say that for a random person who died that none of us know. And for that, no it is not a contradiction or what have you.


And for those who say that the only reason people are mourning is because they can't separate him from the Joker.. please. Thats the dumbest load of crock I've ever heard. Honestly, WHO CARES? I'm sure if Harrison Ford suddenly died people would be devastated because Indiana Jones and Han Solo were gone. Their childhood hero was no more.

lol. ''connected with him''?

 

[roach]

Had he not be cast as Joker right now this website would be flooded with dead brokeback mountain jokes

 

[Abaddon]

^^not flooded, but I'm sure there would be a few.

 

[DV8]

See, people are saying this.

You don't know that.
J. Nicholson is more important, because time can't erase what we KNOW about him. He DID this stuff.


Do I really have to bore everyone with the ginormous list of super-promising young stars who looked set to ignite the sky over Hollywood who ended up a joke because of a few years of bad decisions?

Are you all time-travellers?
Take me with you next time!

Ledger is certainly going to be elevated into the status of legend far beyond what his future in acting could have accomplished because of his early death . . . he would likely have never been able to achieve that