A day without mexicans!!!!

[Mr Sparkle]

According to the BAN report, the discourse of Arizona vigilante groups contributes to a climate of fear used to justify their aggressive and forceful “border security” tactics. Ranch Rescue, for example, refers to undocumented border crossers as “drug smugglers, criminal gang members, bandits, thugs and international terrorists.” For its part, the American Border Patrol attempts to convince others of a secret plot to reclaim the southwestern U.S. for the Mexican government, and Chris Simcox printed his theory in the Tombstone Tumbleweed that terrorists could learn Spanish and adopt a “Latin cover” because their “physical characteristics match those of Mexican/Latin American illegals.“

Rights groups have been voicing their concern about these groups for quite a while. Over two years ago, the Derechos Humanos (Human Rights) Coalition of Tucson complained that ‘vigilantes’ like Roger Barnett and others have openly violated state and federal laws since 1999, stopping vehicles on public highways, detaining and assaulting people at gun point, and shooting at undocumented immigrants. (American Friends Service Committee, June 2000) Around the same time, the Mexican government urged the U.S. to stop vigilantes hunting illegal immigrants crossing the border. (BBC, May 18, 2000)

After the BAN report was released, Chris Simcox of Civil Homeland Defense was cited with three misdemeanor charges after a Ranger found him and a companion apparently conducting a border patrol operation without permission on National Park Service land in late January. He was charged with carrying a loaded weapon inside a national park, operating without a special use permit and interfering with a law enforcement function. Simcox says he was just hiking, but he was carrying two two-way radios, a police scanner, a cellular phone, and a digital camera, which Rangers confiscated as evidence. (AR, Jan. 27)

 

[dcbmp]

LOL, I'm not "tap dancing" at all!

• have you read the "ranch rescue" literature?
• have you ever heard Chris Simcox speak?
• do you know that there has been an increase in the number of dead illegal immigrants found around the areas where the "minutemen" like groups gather?

puh-leese!, and whilst I can't comment on that story untill you post a link to it (from a news organization no less) I'd be hard pressed to believe it.
and dude, sorry to say, but for people who are talking about respect of the law as a key issue, you're pretty quick to side with people that take "the law" into their own hands.

Unfortunatly MSNBC and FOX's websites don't seem to be working with my computer.

I'm sure if 30 Americans ran into YOUR house and held YOU hostage you'd be calm

And maybe we should be like Mexico and give civilians the right to arrest any illegals they find.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Unfortunatly MSNBC and FOX's websites don't seem to be working with my computer.

I'm sure if 30 Americans ran into YOUR house and held YOU hostage you'd be calm

LOL, I have never said that, now who's "tap dancing"? oh, and in an awesome "two sides to every story" vibe:

Illegal immigrants awarded ranch in border-justice twist
By Bill Conroy,
Posted on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 10:00:20 PM EST
Back in the spring of 2003, an Arizona ranch owner stood guard along the U.S./Mexican border in South Texas. He was there to protect his land from the onslaught of illegal immigrants who might cross the border to work on ranches like his, or maybe in the exoburb homes of wealthy people further north.
The rancher was standing his ground with like-minded zealots participating in the xenophobic militia-like group called Ranch Rescue. If the wrong person "invaded" America, he and his cadre of armed "patriots" were prepared to take the law into their own hands.
And it seems the rancher from Arizona got his man – and then reportedly bashed him with his gun.


The Associated Press reports:

In March 2003, (Casey) Nethercott was accused of pistol-whipping an illegal immigrant as he and other people from Ranch Rescue patrolled a ranch in Hebbronville, Texas. A jury deadlocked on the charge. Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles, the man who accused Nethercott of hitting him, and another immigrant traveling with him from El Salvador, Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, filed a civil lawsuit last year saying they were harmed while being held.
​

Ranch Rescue and like-minded vigilante groups, such as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corp., have garnered a lot of mainstream press for displays of gun-toting machismo along the U.S./Mexican border.
Rarely, though, do those reports discuss the history of violence that has accompanied such forms of mob “justice” in Texas:

In the American Southwest, people of Mexican descent were also prey to mob violence, as evidenced by the lynching of Antonio Rodriquez on November 3, 1910, in Rock Springs, Texas. Allegedly, Rodriquez had killed a white woman by the name of Mrs. Clem Hernderson after the two had had an argument. Rumors circulated that he had committed the murder in front of Mrs. Henderson's five year old daughter.
His guilt was based solely upon her husband's third-hand description of the suspect delivered over the telephone and most likely Rodriquez was the victim of a tragic case of mistaken identity. In any event, the young cowboy was captured, taken a mile outside of town, tied to a mesquite cactus, doused in kerosene, and burned alive.
Widely publicized in the Mexican press, the lynching in Texas led to large anti-American demonstrations in both Mexico City and Guadalajara.
Coverage of the lynching and the reaction to it was wildly sensationalized. The newspapers at the capitol of Mexico demanded 'Where is the boasted Yankee civilization?'"
In Texas, the publicity of the lynching provoked even more attacks on Mexicans. Because Mexicans "displayed an impudent attitude" they were attacked in Galveston. In construction camps and ranches in Webb, Duval, LaSalle, Dimmit and Starr Counties, Anglos attacked Mexicans who were reportedly "sullen and threatening since the burning of Rodriquez at Rock Springs."
​

Still, seemingly ignorant of this history of injustice, or maybe even recklessly unconcerned with whether it is repeated, these borderline fascist groups continue to broadcast their skewed, inflammatory rhetoric, which is usually reported uncritically and without historical context by the media.
More from the AP story:

"If the federal government was doing its job, ranchers would not be living in fear," said Chris Simcox, president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corp., which watches for illegal immigrant crossings and reports them to the U.S. Border Patrol.​

Now, does that mean the illegal immigrants are reported before or after a good pistol whipping?
At least in the Ranch Rescue case, it appears that the pistol-whipping was part of a pre-reporting border-protection protocol.
AP reports:

Named in the (civil) suit were Nethercott; Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owners of the Hebbronville ranch, Joe and Betty Sutton. The Suttons settled for $100,000… . In April, a Texas judge issued default judgments of $850,000 against Nethercott and $500,000 against Foote.
​

But it seems Nethercott was not exactly flush with case. So his little display of border-patrol machismo cost him the ranch.
In order to satisfy the judgment against him, according to AP, Nethercott was forced to turn over his ranch in Douglas, Az., to the two border crossers he allegedly “terrorized.” Ironically, AP reports, the Douglas ranch once served as the headquarters of Ranch Rescue – ouch!
Again, from the AP story:

The land transfer is being done to satisfy a judgment against the ranch's owner, Casey Nethercott, member of a border-watch group that seeks to protect private property from illegal immigrants entering the southern U.S. border. Nethercott had been accused of terrorizing the immigrants when they were caught in Texas. ... Nethercott (had) transferred ownership of his Douglas ranch to his sister. But the sister gave up ownership to settle the judgment.
​

Border-watch groups were “outraged,” AP reports. But not everyone sees it that way.
“Morris Dees, co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which represented the immigrants, said he hoped the ruling would serve as a cautionary tale to land owners or civilian patrols considering hostile measures against border crossers,” the AP story reports.
But regardless of how the media paints it, the bottom line is that the price for the ranch in this case was paid in blood. It’s just another reminder that if Texas history could be poured into the Rio Grande, the river would run red across the border.
In that context, it's clear that human rights have to trump property rights, if we are to have any hope of changing the course of that history.

 

[dcbmp]

LOL, I have never said that, now who's "tap dancing"? oh, and in an awesome "two sides to every story" vibe:.

I have sucky dial up?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

the hell, MSNBC works fine for me, and nothing comes up on their search about 30 illegal immigrants molesting a crippled man.

 

[dcbmp]

LOL, I have never said that, now who's "tap dancing"? oh, and in an awesome "two sides to every story" vibe:

Illegal immigrants awarded ranch in border-justice twist
By Bill Conroy,
Posted on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 10:00:20 PM EST
Back in the spring of 2003, an Arizona ranch owner stood guard along the U.S./Mexican border in South Texas. He was there to protect his land from the onslaught of illegal immigrants who might cross the border to work on ranches like his, or maybe in the exoburb homes of wealthy people further north.
The rancher was standing his ground with like-minded zealots participating in the xenophobic militia-like group called Ranch Rescue. If the wrong person "invaded" America, he and his cadre of armed "patriots" were prepared to take the law into their own hands.
And it seems the rancher from Arizona got his man – and then reportedly bashed him with his gun.


The Associated Press reports:

In March 2003, (Casey) Nethercott was accused of pistol-whipping an illegal immigrant as he and other people from Ranch Rescue patrolled a ranch in Hebbronville, Texas. A jury deadlocked on the charge. Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles, the man who accused Nethercott of hitting him, and another immigrant traveling with him from El Salvador, Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, filed a civil lawsuit last year saying they were harmed while being held.
​

Ranch Rescue and like-minded vigilante groups, such as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corp., have garnered a lot of mainstream press for displays of gun-toting machismo along the U.S./Mexican border.
Rarely, though, do those reports discuss the history of violence that has accompanied such forms of mob “justice” in Texas:

In the American Southwest, people of Mexican descent were also prey to mob violence, as evidenced by the lynching of Antonio Rodriquez on November 3, 1910, in Rock Springs, Texas. Allegedly, Rodriquez had killed a white woman by the name of Mrs. Clem Hernderson after the two had had an argument. Rumors circulated that he had committed the murder in front of Mrs. Henderson's five year old daughter.
His guilt was based solely upon her husband's third-hand description of the suspect delivered over the telephone and most likely Rodriquez was the victim of a tragic case of mistaken identity. In any event, the young cowboy was captured, taken a mile outside of town, tied to a mesquite cactus, doused in kerosene, and burned alive.
Widely publicized in the Mexican press, the lynching in Texas led to large anti-American demonstrations in both Mexico City and Guadalajara.
Coverage of the lynching and the reaction to it was wildly sensationalized. The newspapers at the capitol of Mexico demanded 'Where is the boasted Yankee civilization?'"
In Texas, the publicity of the lynching provoked even more attacks on Mexicans. Because Mexicans "displayed an impudent attitude" they were attacked in Galveston. In construction camps and ranches in Webb, Duval, LaSalle, Dimmit and Starr Counties, Anglos attacked Mexicans who were reportedly "sullen and threatening since the burning of Rodriquez at Rock Springs."
​

Still, seemingly ignorant of this history of injustice, or maybe even recklessly unconcerned with whether it is repeated, these borderline fascist groups continue to broadcast their skewed, inflammatory rhetoric, which is usually reported uncritically and without historical context by the media.
More from the AP story:

"If the federal government was doing its job, ranchers would not be living in fear," said Chris Simcox, president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corp., which watches for illegal immigrant crossings and reports them to the U.S. Border Patrol.​

Now, does that mean the illegal immigrants are reported before or after a good pistol whipping?
At least in the Ranch Rescue case, it appears that the pistol-whipping was part of a pre-reporting border-protection protocol.
AP reports:

Named in the (civil) suit were Nethercott; Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owners of the Hebbronville ranch, Joe and Betty Sutton. The Suttons settled for $100,000… . In April, a Texas judge issued default judgments of $850,000 against Nethercott and $500,000 against Foote.
​

But it seems Nethercott was not exactly flush with case. So his little display of border-patrol machismo cost him the ranch.
In order to satisfy the judgment against him, according to AP, Nethercott was forced to turn over his ranch in Douglas, Az., to the two border crossers he allegedly “terrorized.” Ironically, AP reports, the Douglas ranch once served as the headquarters of Ranch Rescue – ouch!
Again, from the AP story:

The land transfer is being done to satisfy a judgment against the ranch's owner, Casey Nethercott, member of a border-watch group that seeks to protect private property from illegal immigrants entering the southern U.S. border. Nethercott had been accused of terrorizing the immigrants when they were caught in Texas. ... Nethercott (had) transferred ownership of his Douglas ranch to his sister. But the sister gave up ownership to settle the judgment.
​

Border-watch groups were “outraged,” AP reports. But not everyone sees it that way.
“Morris Dees, co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which represented the immigrants, said he hoped the ruling would serve as a cautionary tale to land owners or civilian patrols considering hostile measures against border crossers,” the AP story reports.
But regardless of how the media paints it, the bottom line is that the price for the ranch in this case was paid in blood. It’s just another reminder that if Texas history could be poured into the Rio Grande, the river would run red across the border.
In that context, it's clear that human rights have to trump property rights, if we are to have any hope of changing the course of that history.

Interesting. Xenophobes.....ohhhhhhhh ahhhhhhh........

The logic by these...people is quite....funny.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Interesting. Xenophobes.....ohhhhhhhh ahhhhhhh........

The logic by these...people is quite....funny.

yeah, I mean, breaking the law = evil, taking the law into your own hands = kickass!


LOL

 

[Mr Sparkle]

*taps glass* hey, all the people saying that the minutemen are like a neighborhood watch?

you there?

 

[dcbmp]

More bad news for Mexico. China is moving in on Japan's veggie/fruit market. Now the farmers in mexico will be put out of business.

 

[comicgirl]

More bad news for Mexico. China is moving in on Japan's veggie/fruit market. Now the farmers in mexico will be put out of business.

nah...but, I don't get it...why are China and India on the fast track and Mexico is still behind?.....come on!!!

 

[War Lord]

nah...but, I don't get it...why are China and India on the fast track and Mexico is still behind?.....come on!!!

The Asian gene gives the advantage to anybody with it.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Illegal Immigration is a real problem with America, it needs to be stopped. Simple as that.

what about the chidren of illegal immigrants? if you think they should be deported well then there would be nobody left in this country except for the Native American Indians.

Hey I'm part Native American.

Get out of my country you caucasain American invading illegal immigrants! this is a real problem and it needs to be stopped! Go back to Europe where you came from, we don't want you here!

okay of course I'm being sarcastic but you get the point. you have no more right to tell them to leave then I have to tell you to leave. make a deal. I will let you stay if you quit judging them okay?

 

[comicgirl]

The Asian gene gives the advantage to anybody with it.

damn....I guess I'm out

 

[War Lord]

what about the chidren of illegal immigrants? if you think they should be deported well then there would be nobody left in this country except for the Native American Indians.

Hey I'm part Native American.

Get out of my country you caucasain American invading illegal immigrants! this is a real problem and it needs to be stopped! Go back to Europe where you came from, we don't want you here!

okay of course I'm being sarcastic but you get the point. you have no more right to tell them to leave then I have to tell you to leave. make a deal. I will let you stay if you quit judging them okay?

Like it or not, this isn't pre-1492 when you might have had a say in who can come to your country. This ain't just your country anymore, it's mine as well for over the last 400 or so years. Let's deal with the present, which we can control, as opposed to the past which is a done deal.

The fact is that a country needs to control the rate at which it grows. If the population grows too quick, the only thing gained is high unemployment and poverty for most everybody. If it grows too slow, it ages and dies. If you don't control who or how many get into your country, that country simply ends up impoverished, which isn't good for everybody.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

um, will a mod please lock this thread. it is verry disturbing and pretty racist

 

[War Lord]

um, will a mod please lock this thread. it is verry disturbing and pretty racist

You need to contact a mod personally before anything can be done. They can't be everywhere.

I never said any racially things, for the record.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Like it or not, this isn't pre-1492 when you might have had a say in who can come to your country. This ain't just your country anymore, it's mine as well for over the last 400 or so years. Let's deal with the present, which we can control, as opposed to the past which is a done deal.

The fact is that a country needs to control the rate at which it grows. If the population grows too quick, the only thing gained is high unemployment and poverty for most everybody. If it grows too slow, it ages and dies. If you don't control who or how many get into your country, that country simply ends up impoverished, which isn't good for everybody.

all very true. and I'm only part Native American. I'm also Italian, Canadian, Dutch, Irish, European, and a bunch more that I can't even remember.
Don't ask me how this happened because I never actually bothered to look at my family tree.

but anyways there is a labor shortage in America right now.
Me personally? I think we do need to stop people from getting in the country illegally. We need stronger border control. But we also can't realisitically expect to deport 11 million people? Now with our current federal deficit which we will be dealing with for decades comes to 30,000 per person? that's hard for one person to come up with. if our population does go up then 20 30 years the amount per person will be lower.

I'm just putting up some pros and cons. I really do think we need to stop them from gettting in the country, while providing a way for the ones already living her to become legal.

 

[War Lord]

all very true. and I'm only part Native American. I'm also Italian, Canadian, Dutch, Irish, European, and a bunch more that I can't even remember.
Don't ask me how this happened because I never actually bothered to look at my family tree.

but anyways there is a labor shortage in America right now.
Me personally? I think we do need to stop people from getting in the country illegally. We need stronger border control. But we also can't realisitically expect to deport 11 million people? Now with our current federal deficit which we will be dealing with for decades comes to 30,000 per person? that's hard for one person to come up with. if our population does go up then 20 30 years the amount per person will be lower.

I'm just putting up some pros and cons. I really do think we need to stop them from gettting in the country, while providing a way for the ones already living her to become legal.

Because America ignored the issue when it could be coped with, probably the only action that can be taken now is to reinforce the border, and grant amnesty for those who've been in the country for a certain period of time with no criminal record (a decade is probably fair).

That's probably the only reasonable action that can be taken.

But consequences go both ways, while America is going to have to take in those who've been in the country for a set time, those who haven't should be deported along with their children and accept the consequences of taking their kids with them.

a compromise of that sort is probably the only doable thing.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Because America ignored the issue when it could be coped with, probably the only action that can be taken now is to reinforce the border, and grant amnesty for those who've been in the country for a certain period of time with no criminal record (a decade is probably fair).

That's probably the only reasonable action that can be taken.

But consequences go both ways, while America is going to have to take in those who've been in the country for a set time, those who haven't should be deported along with their children and accept the consequences of taking their kids with them.

a compromise of that sort is probably the only doable thing.

yeah but part of that would be illegal according to the constitution and it would absolutely not get ammended. anybody born in the United States is automatically a United States citizen. besides by the time you find these people they have been here for so long already. they will have to form some kind of compromise though.

one thing I'm glad about? this is going to totally take away all the gains the republicans made with the hispanic community in the last few years. bush made a 9% gain with them, and it is definitely gone now!

 

[War Lord]

yeah but part of that would be illegal according to the constitution and it would absolutely not get ammended. anybody born in the United States is automatically a United States citizen. besides by the time you find these people they have been here for so long already. they will have to form some kind of compromise though.

one thing I'm glad about? this is going to totally take away all the gains the republicans made with the hispanic community in the last few years. bush made a 9% gain with them, and it is definitely gone now!

If I remember correctly, the idea that if you're born in the country you're automatically a citizen was an amendment. If it's an amendment, it can be amended out.

 

[Drakon]

 

[Swiftman]

if there was a day without mexicans, white people would have to do their own ****! no more mowing lawns, washing dishes, picking fruits, thats white people's job now. good luck

 

[roach]

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight because Mexicans are the only ones doing those jobs

 

[Asteroid-Man]

my God this is racist!

 

[War Lord]

my God this is racist!

I personally love the drama of strong positions.