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A World Without America: What if??

Admiral_N8

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This thread's been done before at some other forums and it was pretty interesting.


So, what do you think the world would be like if today the USA simply didnt exist? Or became 100% isolationist?

What do you think the world would have been like in the last 100 years if the USA didnt exist, or was 100% isolationist?

This is kind of to see how people dont like how America "doesnt mind its business", how it would be if America didnt do anything.

My view:
Without America the last 100 years the world would definately not be in as good of shape as it is now...without US help in WW2 Europe would definately been under Nazi Germany, and possibly Russia. Japan would have been unopposed in its land/resources grab in SouthEast Asia.

Or, in the Korean war nobody would have been able to repel N Korean and Chinese forces and the Korean peninsula would have been one big Communist and poverty ridden land.

Or if the US became 100% isolationist during the Cold War nobody would have been able to stop anything the USSR wanted to do in Europe.

Or in Iraq 90-91, there wouldnt have been sufficient force or will to drive Saddam out of Iraq or to stop him from going into his oil rich neighbor of Saudi Arabia



For today, if the USA just became 100% isolationist:
N Korea, with the help of China, could take over its rich southern neighbor, and move onto the relatively unarmed Japan.

Israel, even with its nukes, would be an easy target for a unified Arab and Persian world to drive out to the sea.

Also, theres all the scientific breakthroughs from the USA and all that, I'm sure that might come up.


[I should note there have been more than a few negative results to America, but IMHO that is far outweighed by the good in the last 100 years]
 
Admiral_N8 said:
This thread's been done before at some other forums and it was pretty interesting.


So, what do you think the world would be like if today the USA simply didnt exist? Or became 100% isolationist?

What do you think the world would have been like in the last 100 years if the USA didnt exist, or was 100% isolationist?

This is kind of to see how people dont like how America "doesnt mind its business", how it would be if America didnt do anything.

My view:
Without America the last 100 years the world would definately not be in as good of shape as it is now...without US help in WW2 Europe would definately been under Nazi Germany, and possibly Russia. Japan would have been unopposed in its land/resources grab in SouthEast Asia.

Or, in the Korean war nobody would have been able to repel N Korean and Chinese forces and the Korean peninsula would have been one big Communist and poverty ridden land.

Or if the US became 100% isolationist during the Cold War nobody would have been able to stop anything the USSR wanted to do in Europe.

Or in Iraq 90-91, there wouldnt have been sufficient force or will to drive Saddam out of Iraq or to stop him from going into his oil rich neighbor of Saudi Arabia



For today, if the USA just became 100% isolationist:
N Korea, with the help of China, could take over its rich southern neighbor, and move onto the relatively unarmed Japan.

Israel, even with its nukes, would be an easy target for a unified Arab and Persian world to drive out to the sea.

Also, theres all the scientific breakthroughs from the USA and all that, I'm sure that might come up.


[I should note there have been more than a few negative results to America, but IMHO that is far outweighed by the good in the last 100 years]

US wasn't the big factor in beating Germany anyway, that was Russia. And in fact WW2 was one of those decisive moments that really pushed the US to superpower status, so they benefitted as much or more from the war then the rest of the world would have.

Other than that, I think a lot of your examples are decent, but those roles probably would have been filled by another country if the US wasn't there. Ultimately the planet seems to inevitably produce superpowers. So without the US, someone else would have filled the role.
 
JLBats said:
but those roles probably would have been filled by another country if the US wasn't there. Ultimately the planet seems to inevitably produce superpowers. So without the US, someone else would have filled the role.

Good point, but would those nations who filled the US' shoes been a free nation? Or a nation like China or the USSR, or a new NAzi nation?
 
I'd imagine that it would fall to Russia, same as it did, and then another nation would fulfill the role of opposing superpower. It might be Japan, but I doubt it.
 
JLBats said:
I'd imagine that it would fall to Russia, same as it did, and then another nation would fulfill the role of opposing superpower. It might be Japan, but I doubt it.

But would that nation have been willing to sacrifices thousands of lives and trillions of dollars to fight against communism?

I mean, what if France was the big huge power?
 
I doubt France, after being badly crippled by WW2, would become the other superpower.
 
JLBats said:
I doubt France, after being badly crippled by WW2, would become the other superpower.

Yes, I mean what if a nation like France, a passive appeasing nation, would have been the superpower to take Americas place?

They wouldnt have the will to do what it takes to stop communism...dont you think?
 
I don't think the answer to Communism was direct, forceful action anyway, and the US was wise not to take such steps. Besides, a passive appeasing nation wouldn't be likely to achieve superpower status anyway.
 
JLBats said:
I don't think the answer to Communism was direct, forceful action anyway, and the US was wise not to take such steps. Besides, a passive appeasing nation wouldn't be likely to achieve superpower status anyway.

Ummm we took a huge direct action against communism in the Korean war from 1950-53.

I am surprised at the number of people that think the US really hasnt helped the world move foward at all.

I'm NOT surprised at the "I Hate Admiral_N8" people :)
 
One thing to consider, if the US hadn't existed, one of the major european powers would most likely have control of the north american continent, with all it's resources, so there's your chance for a western democratic superpower's shoes to be filled.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
Ummm we took a huge direct action against communism in the Korean war from 1950-53.

The Korean War was partially helmed by the UN anyway.

Like I said, it is unlikely a weak, passive country would reach the role anyway. It would naturally fall to a more forceful country, one that would take a stronger stand against Communism.
 
JLBats said:
The Korean War was partially helmed by the UN anyway.

Like I said, it is unlikely a weak, passive country would reach the role anyway. It would naturally fall to a more forceful country, one that would take a stronger stand against Communism.

It was "helmed by the UN" yes, but the US made up something like 90% of the forces, and was the driving force in the UN to stop them...since Russia, China obviously were against stopping communism, and France didnt care.
 
Calvin said:
One thing to consider, if the US hadn't existed, one of the major european powers would most likely have control of the north american continent, with all it's resources, so there's your chance for a western democratic superpower's shoes to be filled.

Ya I dont really mean "didnt exist" i should have worded it differently, I meant like the land wasnt there at all, or it was there and was 100% isolationist.
 
Calvin said:
One thing to consider, if the US hadn't existed, one of the major european powers would most likely have control of the north american continent, with all it's resources, so there's your chance for a western democratic superpower's shoes to be filled.
This is true...if we assume from back into the revolutionary war that we never ceded

As for if we remained isolationist after WWII, well thats easy...our economy would have crumbled.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
It was "helmed by the UN" yes, but the US made up something like 90% of the forces, and was the driving force in the UN to stop them...since Russia, China obviously werent against stopping communism, and France didnt care.

It doesn't matter. The fact is, the UN was involved, and therefore any effective superpower would have been dragged into the conflict anyway.

It's all sort of moot, since if America had never existed the landscape of history up until that point would be so drastically altered that nothing we're talking about would even have happened.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
This is true...if we assume from back into the revolutionary war that we never ceded

As for if we remained isolationist after WWII, well thats easy...our economy would have crumbled.

But what about the world.
 
Admiral_N8 said:
Ya I dont really mean "didnt exist" i should have worded it differently, I meant like the land wasnt there at all, or it was there and was 100% isolationist.
If the land wasn't there, someone would have serious port access to south america, and probably would have built up similar superpowers as well.
 
JLBats said:
It doesn't matter. The fact is, the UN was involved, and therefore any effective superpower would have been dragged into the conflict anyway.

It's all sort of moot, since if America had never existed the landscape of history up until that point would be so drastically altered that nothing we're talking about would even have happened.
Yeah I mean you really cannot prove communism or even European democracy would have ever started.
 
JLBats said:
It doesn't matter. The fact is, the UN was involved, and therefore any effective superpower would have been dragged into the conflict anyway.

The USSR was in the UN and was a hugely effective superpower at the time, they didnt get dragged into the confict in any large way.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Yeah I mean you really cannot prove communism or even European democracy would have ever started.
Pretty much. Travel back in time, step on a fly, come back to the present, we're all living under the sea.
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Yeah I mean you really cannot prove communism or even European democracy would have ever started.

I never said what happened if the USA stopped existing in 1770s, but if TODAY it somehow disapeared or became isolationist, or if it did 100 years ago. Because its obvious if we talk about the USA not being there since 1770 we couldnt make anything close to an accurate statement about today and how things would be. :up:
 
Admiral_N8 said:
The USSR was in the UN and was a hugely effective superpower at the time, they didnt get dragged into the confict in any large way.

I was speaking of course of a superpower opposed to Communism, even if pacifistic.

And again, moot point. No pacifistic country would achieve superpower status.
 

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