The Force Awakens Adam Driver as Kylo Ren - Part 1

[The Endless]

haha yea, Ren is what Anakin SHOULD have been.

 

[FlareKnight]

Yeah, that's how I see it too. And I agree; while Vader is and will always be the greatest movie villain of all time, Ren is more complex and a worthy successor. After the prequels gave us Darth Maul (who said and did almost nothing) Count Dookie (Christopher Lee phoning it in for the first time in a 70-year movie career), Darth Sidious (whose Emperor makeup somehow looked faker in 2005 than in 1983) and Anakin Skywalker (who IS that annoying emo prick that people keep accusing Kylo of being) we finally have a three-dimensional Star Wars villain again who is both intimidating and sympathetic. I can't wait to see where he goes next.

Were the middle two guys actual criticisms of the characters....cause if we're going to be subjective based on looks....Ren looked like crap. Makeup and accusations of not bothering to act? Though I suppose that's necessary to argue Kylo Ren currently has more complexity than Sidious. You know a guy who spent decades putting into motion a plan to conquer the galaxy and actually pulled it off. I suppose in comparison to Darth Maul though a spoiled brat with an inferiority complex would be a more complicated character (see pretty easy to throw a weak criticism in a single sentence for him as well).

 

[GuestStar2004]

haha yea, Ren is what Anakin SHOULD have been.

Anakin was always gonna be a hard character to do because he is Darth Vader and Vader was always a cold sort of character in the OT and i tell you now if Anakin was anything like Kylo people would have hated it just as much but because he ain't Vader people are more willing to accept that he is a different character, a Vader wannabe but not actually being Vader

If you mean the emotional struggle in the character then maybe i can understand that but i think Clone wars had the best portrayal of anakin overall that felt like a nice balance

 

[BatLobster]

I don't know, I mean other than some of the surface similarities (hair, scar, brattiness/anger issues) I see Kylo and Anakin as very different characters.

Mind, you, I think Adam Driver is a much better actor (who also had better direction). But Anakin is more of a tragic case of a guy who craved more power to protect his loved ones and ended up on a slippery slope that destroyed him and he ended up imprisoned in that suit. He has to deny the good that's still in him because he can't live with what he's done. Kylo is someone who idolizes evil. He is actively trying to fully turn to the dark side and struggling to live up to his grandfather's legacy. He's basically mini-Vader. A guy playing dress up and trying to be Vader.

Love the character, but I just see his struggle as inherently different than his grandfather's. At least as of now, without actually seeing his initial turn.

 

[The Endless]

I can see what you're saying. But i don't necessarily mean the exact personality etc. I mean just in how Ren's conflict inside him was done better, how Driver portrayed him.

 

[kickass]

I would think Kylo Ren is very much how Darth Vader was after Revenge of the Sith.

 

[The Endless]

Hmmm maybe. Vader seemed more in control of his rage though. He'd lose his temper with lowly Imperial Officers... but calmly Force choke the life out of them.

Ren? He'd throw an almighty wobbly and start carving people up with his lightsaber.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Kylo defo has some anakin in him, its pretty obvious that was the intention from his ROTS like appearance and attitude but all we really know if his idol is darth vader and he fears he may never be darth vader and that seems to drive him nuts i guess.

In terms of why he went to the dark side i think we will have to wait for the answer.

Anakin and kylo certainly turned for different reasons but i think the idea was that the dark side runs in the family.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, performance-wise it's more nuanced. As I said, Adam Driver is a better actor and he's probably got a very bright future ahead of him.

One kind of ironic thing about it is I think visually, Hayden was great. He did good when it came to the anguished facial expressions and emoting with no dialogue (makes sense, Lucas was more of a visual storyteller). But a lot of his dialogue delivery was weird, though to be fair a lot of it was awful dialogue on paper too.

With Adam, he's got an awkward face that's even drawn some giggles from the audience at showings I've been to when he unmasks. But his performance and voice totally sells the character. I thought he had presence especially underneath the mask. And in a sense he was a David Prowse/James Earl Jones 2 for 1 package there, so that's very impressive.

 

[The Endless]

I think he chose the Dark Side because he saw it as a short cut to great power. The way of the Jedi is more disciplined and requires patience.

Why he wants that power and why he obsesses over Vader i'm sure we'll find out eventually. What's interesting is that Luke must have told him Vader returned to the Light and redeemed himself... so why does Ben still idolize him the way he does?

 

[The Endless]

Yeah, performance-wise it's more nuanced. As I said, Adam Driver is a better actor and he's probably got a very bright future ahead of him.

One kind of ironic thing about it is I think visually, Hayden was great. He did good when it came to the anguished facial expressions and emoting with no dialogue (makes sense, Lucas was more of a visual storyteller). But a lot of his dialogue delivery was weird, though to be fair a lot of it was awful dialogue on paper too.

With Adam, he's got an awkward face that's even drawn some giggles from the audience at showings I've been to when he unmasks. But his performance and voice totally sells the character. I thought he had presence especially underneath the mask. And in a sense he was a David Prowse/James Earl Jones 2 for 1 package there, so that's very impressive.

Yea he was great under the mask. His voice especially was really cool. Eloquently menacing lol.

 

[kickass]

Hmmm maybe. Vader seemed more in control of his rage though. He'd lose his temper with lowly Imperial Officers... but calmly Force choke the life out of them.

Ren? He'd throw an almighty wobbly and start carving people up with his lightsaber.

But you're comparing Vader in ANH/ESB/ROTJ. I'm talking about Vader right after ROTS ends. Not 20+ years after, I mean the day after and weeks and months after. He didn't just become a wiser more subdued guy after the helmet came on. He had to have still been trained by Palpatine during that time. I just imagine they were a lot alike at that time in their lives. Vader was, after all, still in his early 20's when he became Darth Vader.

 

[jaqua99]

Yeah, performance-wise it's more nuanced. As I said, Adam Driver is a better actor and he's probably got a very bright future ahead of him.

One kind of ironic thing about it is I think visually, Hayden was great. He did good when it came to the anguished facial expressions and emoting with no dialogue (makes sense, Lucas was more of a visual storyteller). But a lot of his dialogue delivery was weird, though to be fair a lot of it was awful dialogue on paper too.

With Adam, he's got an awkward face that's even drawn some giggles from the audience at showings I've been to when he unmasks. But his performance and voice totally sells the character. I thought he had presence especially underneath the mask. And in a sense he was a David Prowse/James Earl Jones 2 for 1 package there, so that's very impressive.

"You turned her against me!" "You wiLl NOT TAKE HER FROM ME!!"

 

[Harley2004]

I thought he was a fantastic villain. You can obviously never match Vader in terms of pure iconography or gravitas... but i think Ren is a bit more complex. The scene with Han was really well done. We obviously knew what was going to happen, but it was still intense and heartbreaking. You can see the conflict in him.

I also love the whole dynamic of a bad guy fighting against his inherent goodness, seeing it as a weakness.

I didn't have any complaints with the finale and how Ren was defeated. He's clearly badly hurt, physically and mentally. His mind is completely messed up after what has just happened. But he's still a bad ass. He toys with Finn like he is nothing. Then when Finn manages to strike him, he efficiently and brutally puts Finn down with ease.

As for Rey? Well yea she is a novice who is just discovering The Force, but the film makes it a point to show how she is a born survivor with a lot of skills and focus. Sure sometimes she comes across borderline "Mary Sue-ish". But i can allow that.

People saying she kicks Ren's ass? I don't see it that way. Most of the fight she is just about surviving, she is actually retreating. All the while Ren is clearly exhausted and succumbing to his wound. She only actually gets the upper hand when they have that awesomely intense face to face moment where she completely focuses and he clearly loses his focus.

I'm really interested to see where Ren goes from here. Will he go off the deep end and fully commit to the Dark Side?

She did kick his ass. When she had her awakening, I guess and used the force he was completely overpowered. In what had proceeded that in the film made little sense.

 

[titansupes]

I think he chose the Dark Side because he saw it as a short cut to great power. The way of the Jedi is more disciplined and requires patience.

Why he wants that power and why he obsesses over Vader i'm sure we'll find out eventually. What's interesting is that Luke must have told him Vader returned to the Light and redeemed himself... so why does Ben still idolize him the way he does?

JJ has said that Kylo idolizes Vader, not Anakin. He's aware that he turned back to the Light, and he and Snoke consider that his ultimate failure in an "otherwise exemplary life". So he wants to become Vader, but not fall to sentiment as Vader did by saving his son, which is part of what leads Kylo to kill his father.

 

[terry78]

JJ has said that Kylo idolizes Vader, not Anakin. He's aware that he turned back to the Light, and he and Snoke consider that his ultimate failure in an "otherwise exemplary life". So he wants to become Vader, but not fall to sentiment as Vader did by saving his son, which is part of what leads Kylo to kill his father.

So they're kind of delusional. Like if a former killer redeemed himself but his supporters have like selective hearing regarding it.

 

[titansupes]

^ Basically.

 

[jaqua99]

She did kick his ass. When she had her awakening, I guess and used the force he was completely overpowered. In what had proceeded that in the film made little sense.

That situation, IS what happened. But I disagree completely with your whole sentiment, and the factors presented to you ARE legitimate. She DID kick his ass, but there was context. He was physically hurt, and not focused. He even offered to train her, and waiting for her reaction to the comment.
Then she focused her power, and rage, which threw a physically and emotionally wounded Ben off guard, who, as soon as he got a disadvantage, could hardly fight as his wounds and the emotions of the situation pulled him from focusing on the fight.

There was circumstance to Rey's victory, but it worked because he was hindered, and potentially, her lineage.

I still think both of them would have their work cut out for them against someone like Kanan. The saber wielding force users in the TFA aren't very seasoned, but I feel Kylo is being slightly underrated. Still, not likely far superior to a seasoned padawan, but he's certainly not "sith lord"/Jedi Knight type of power.

 

[Harley2004]

That situation, IS what happened. But I disagree completely with your whole sentiment, and the factors presented to you ARE legitimate. She DID kick his ass, but there was context. He was physically hurt, and not focused. He even offered to train her, and waiting for her reaction to the comment.
Then she focused her power, and rage, which threw a physically and emotionally wounded Ben off guard, who, as soon as he got a disadvantage, could hardly fight as his wounds and the emotions of the situation pulled him from focusing on the fight.

There was circumstance to Rey's victory, but it worked because he was hindered, and potentially, her lineage.

I still think both of them would have their work cut out for them against someone like Kanan. The saber wielding force users in the TFA aren't very seasoned, but I feel Kylo is being slightly underrated. Still, not likely far superior to a seasoned padawan, but he's certainly not "sith lord"/Jedi Knight type of power.

He was freezing laser bolts in mid-air. That type of control is something never seen even on something like Clone Wars. He was trained by Luke and killed jedi. This is not some padawan.

 

[jaqua99]

She did kick his ass. When she had her awakening, I guess and used the force he was completely overpowered. In what had proceeded that in the film made little sense.

So they're kind of delusional. Like if a former killer redeemed himself but his supporters have like selective hearing regarding it.

This is why Kylo works. The mask holds so much symbolism. It's a manifestation of everything he isn't, and wants to be. Underneath, you have this delusional psychotic, emotionally disturbed child who's thinking became very twisted. This SOB is potent with the force, but his training is far from complete. When it comes to application of the force, in an emotionally charge situation, he can't do it. He's too much of a wreck. We will see him fall deeper into the darkside in my opinion. Becoming more at peace with the evil he's deluding himself with. I believe he will find confidence.

Oh, btw, remember when everyone said Kylo's mask looks like Revan's? Kylo is also struggling between the light, and dark

kidding

 

[Mrs Vimes]

I almost feel like some of the negativity towards Kylo is sexist. Like, "OMG he sucks! He got beaten by a girl!" Whereas, if Finn or Poe kicked the crap out of him, people wouldn't be acting like he's such an emo wuss or whatever.

Now, I haven't actually heard anyone say this, so I could be completely off base here. But it's just a feeling I get. And considering that Star Wars' popularity is so widespread that even racists love it (as evidenced by the idiots who said they wouldn't go see the movie because a black guy was wielding a lightsaber) I'm sure there are plenty of sexist SW fans out there.

I have heard/seen "got beaten by a girl" comments and they do rub me wrong big time. Oh no how shameful it is for a guy to be bested by a woman oh dear

Yeah, performance-wise it's more nuanced. As I said, Adam Driver is a better actor and he's probably got a very bright future ahead of him.

He's also lucky to be working with a director who actually gives a damn about actors and has a knack for making characters sound/interact like real people.

 

[Mad Ones]

Kylo makes sense in the Star Wars universe. I just watched ESB. Yoda and Obi were worried af that Luke would go to the dark side. It just seems like training a Skywalker always comes with a huge risk.

 

[LostSon88]

You start to wonder if the Skywalkers are simply in the wrong profession...

Lol.

 

[Zatanna]

You start to wonder if the Skywalkers are simply in the wrong profession...

Lol.

LOL. What do you think would be the best profession for them as you say?

 

[jaqua99]

He was freezing laser bolts in mid-air. That type of control is something never seen even on something like Clone Wars. He was trained by Luke and killed jedi. This is not some padawan.

Force application. Confidence. Why couldn't he do that to chewie's blaster? He wasn't focused. Look at Anakin. He was WAY more powerful than Obi wan and lost due to emotions. Ren is unstable and I don't think he can apply his powers against another force user effectively as he could against storm troopers. Plus, it didn't take much to break his focus. He's powerful, way more powerful than a Padawan, but not yet disciplined to apply that power efficiently, in my opinion. A trained force user with discipline can beat him if they can get inside his head, or do anything to hinder his confidence