All-Encompassing Christopher Nolan Discussion Thread

[terry78]

I enjoy his work, and it's hyperbole to say this about directors, sometimes it comes off as if he's trying a little too much to go the Hitchcockian route, whether the film is SciFi or more of a thriller/crime film.

 

[slumcat]

To put things into perspective as to how Nolan compares to the millions of other film-makers working today...

I looked at TSPDT - They Shoot Pictures Don't They - an absolutely essential critical reaction aggregating website which takes as its input thousands of critics list from over the decades to paint a picture of gradual and accumulating critical acclaim to come up with the ranked 1000 greatest films ever made. It is a doozy of a list, the most valuable of its kind, and much more useful than a preposterous one like say IMDB Top 250. It is located here - http://www.theyshootpictures.com/index.htm

They run another list, of the ranked Top 250 greatest directors of all time, which is a reflection of the directors who directed the 1000 greatest films of all time.

Nolan does not make even the Top 250 directors of all time. I waded through the list and have listed below the 63 most acclaimed WORKING directors with their latest completed film shown alongside.

Rank. Director (All time Rank) - Name of last completed film (Year of release of the last completed film)
1. Jean-Luc Godard (5) - Goodbye to Language (2014)
2. Francis Ford Coppola (8) - Twixt (2011)
3. Martin Scorsese (12) - The Wolf Of Wall Street (2013)
4. David Lynch (28) - Inland Empire (2006)
5. Steven Spielberg (30) - Lincoln (2012)
6. Woody Allen (31) - Magic in the Moonlight (2014)
7. Roman Polanski (40) - Venus in Furs (2013)
8. Wong Kar-wai (42) - The Grandmaster (2013)
9. Abbas Kiarostami (43) - Like Someone In Love (2012)
10. Ridley Scott (48) - Exodus (2014)
11. Werner Herzog (50) - Queen of the desert (2015)
12. Terrence Malick (51) - To The Wonder (2012)
13. Hou Hsiao-hsien (55) - Flight of the Red Balloon (2007)
14. Bernardo Bertolucci (62) - You and Me (2012)
15. Joel Coen & Ethan Coen (69) - Inside Llewyn Davis (2013)
16. Béla Tarr (71) - The Turin Horse (2011)
17. Quentin Tarantino (73) - Django Unchained (2012)
18. Wim Wenders (74) - Every Thing Will Be Fine (2014)
19. Chantal Akerman (80) - Almayer's Folly (2011)
20. Lars von Trier (84) - Nymphomaniac (2014)
21. David Cronenberg (87) - Map to the Stars (2014)
22. Claude Lanzmann (88) - The Last of the Unjust (2013)
23. Hayao Miyazaki (95) - The Wind Rises (2013)
24. Michael Haneke (97) - Amour (2012)
25. Claire Denis (99) - Bastards (2013)
26. Clint Eastwood (101) - Jersey Boys (2014)
27. Brian De Palma (102) - Passion (2012)
28. Paul Thomas Anderson (104) - Inherent Vice (2014)
29. Spike Lee (105) - Da Sweet Blood of Jesus (2014)
30. James Cameron (106) - Avatar (2009)
31. Pedro Almodóvar (107) - I'm So Excited! (2013)
32. Ken Loach (109) - Jimmy's Hall (2014)
33. Apichatpong Weerasethakul (115) - Uncle Boonmee (2010)
34. Jim Jarmusch (117) - Only Lovers Left Alive (2013)
35. Aleksandr Sokurov (124) - Faust (2011)
36. William Friedkin (126) - Killer Joe (2011)
37. Jane Campion (129) - Bright Star (2009)
38. Peter Weir (131) - The Way Back (2010)
39. Terry Gilliam (135) - The Zero Theorem (2013)
40. Andrzej Wajda (136) - Walesa: Man of Hope (2013)
41. Agnès Varda (138) - The Beaches of Agnès (2008)
42. Mike Leigh (140) - Mr. Turner (2014)
43. Emir Kusturica (144) - Promise Me This (2007)
44. Zhang Yimou (148) - Coming Home (2013)
45. John Boorman (156) - Queen and Country (2014)
46. Ang Lee (158) - Life Of Pi (2012)
47. Michael Mann (163) - Cyber (2015)
48. Robert Zemeckis (166) - Flight (2012)
49. Tsai Ming-liang (167) - Stray Dogs (2013)
50. Terence Davies (169) - The Deep Blue Sea (2011)
51. David Fincher (174) - Gone Girl (2014)
52. Manoel de Oliveira (177) - Gebo and the Shadow (2012)
53. Jean-Pierre Dardenne & Luc Dardenne (178) - Two Days, One Night (2014)
54. Jia Zhangke (186) - A Touch Of Sin (2013)
55. Tim Burton (193) - Big Eyes (2014)
56. Todd Haynes (195) - I'm Not There (2007)
57. Richard Linklater (199) - Boyhood (2014)
58. Errol Morris (201) - The Unknown Known (2013)
59. Gus Van Sant (202) - Promised Land (2012)
60. Aki Kaurismäki (217) - Le Havre (2011)
61. Pedro Costa (235) - Colossal Youth (2006)
62. Giuseppe Tornatore (242) - The Best Offer (2013)
63. Wes Anderson (249) - The Grand Budapest Hotel (2014)[/SPOILER]

They also run a sidebad collection where they chart the 250 most acclaimed films of the new century, meaning from 2000 and onwards. They have a Top 50 Directors POST 2000 list to go with this selection.

And there too Nolan does not feature in the Top 20 directors.

1. Wong Kar-wai
2. David Lynch
3. Michael Haneke
4. Apichatpong Weerasethakul
5. Paul Thomas Anderson
6. Lars von Trier
7. Jia Zhangke
8. Béla Tarr
9. Ang Lee
10. Joel Coen & Ethan Coen
11. Hayao Miyazaki
12. Terrence Malick
13. Clint Eastwood
14. Steven Spielberg
15. Peter Jackson
16. Pedro Almodóvar
17. Wes Anderson
18. Aleksandr Sokurov
19. Richard Linklater
20. David Fincher

And I concur, within the larger discussion of cinema, I don't think Nolan belongs in a "best directors working today" discussion at all. He can make a place in that discussion in the future but presently he woefully misses the mark and his work cannot be compared to the work that these film-makers are doing.

 

[Octoberist]

Long Live Nolan. Long live the King.

 

[Octoberist]

@Slumcat

Of course, when it comes to lists, it's all a fluid thing that keeps on changing.

 

[DA_Champion]

Really hard to argue for Peter Jackson over Christopher Nolan -- I completely disagree. Anyhow, let's be honest:

1) Christopher Nolan is probably over-respected among "the masses" due to the Batman movies;
2) Christopher Nolan is probably under-respected among "the top experts" due to the Batman movies;

Overall it's still a good situation for him, because the Batman movies nearly guarantee his future base of funding and thus he can keep making movies, different kinds of movies too and eventually climb up these lists. He's probably a top five director in the world for funding opportunities, so that's something. He's going to take it one movie at a time, one movie every second year, if the past is any indication.

What he's doing with Interstellar, if I understand it correctly, is original. He has Kip Thorne, one of the smartest men in the world and the one who literally co-wrote "the book on gravity", consulting as an executive producer.

Nolan's going to make a space opera where the laws of physics (as interpreted by Thorne ...) are an actual constraint on the storytelling rather than a suggestion that can be bent at will. Nobody's done that before in blockbuster cinema that I can recall, at least not in a long time. Though most of this website doesn't know it, Star Trek and Star are are closer to Lord of the Rings than to genuine science fiction.

A lot of the people who vote in those kinds of lists -- possibly 100% of them -- don't know physics 101, so I won't expect them to realise what Nolan has done, but among those of us who know physics 101, 201, 301, etc the achievement will be appreciated. I've long felt that using nature as a constraint could actually be a tool for innovation.

 

[hammerhedd11]

To put things into perspective as to how Nolan compares to the millions of other film-makers working today...

I looked at TSPDT - They Shoot Pictures Don't They - an absolutely essential critical reaction aggregating website which takes as its input thousands of critics list from over the decades to paint a picture of gradual and accumulating critical acclaim to come up with the ranked 1000 greatest films ever made. It is a doozy of a list, the most valuable of its kind, and much more useful than a preposterous one like say IMDB Top 250. It is located here - http://www.theyshootpictures.com/index.htm

They run another list, of the ranked Top 250 greatest directors of all time, which is a reflection of the directors who directed the 1000 greatest films of all time.

Nolan does not make even the Top 250 directors of all time. I waded through the list and have listed below the 63 most acclaimed WORKING directors with their latest completed film shown alongside.



They also run a sidebad collection where they chart the 250 most acclaimed films of the new century, meaning from 2000 and onwards. They have a Top 50 Directors POST 2000 list to go with this selection.

And there too Nolan does not feature in the Top 20 directors.

And I concur, within the larger discussion of cinema, I don't think Nolan belongs in a "best directors working today" discussion at all. He can make a place in that discussion in the future but presently he woefully misses the mark and his work cannot be compared to the work that these film-makers are doing.

Well if film history tells us anything, it's that genius is never overlooked. Seriously, is this your argument? Nolan is not held as in high regard as these directors according to a small aggregate group of critics, therefore, he can't be held in high regard by others? You do know that pointing to "experts" to support your personal opinion on an art form does not support your argument well.

Anyway, as for my own personal thoughts, I don't really feel Nolan has had a weak film yet, nothing really below 'good' in my book. Both Following and Batman Begins have great bits mixed in with some weak pieces and lead me to rate them lower than the rest, of which I think are all consistently great films. How I would rank his films:
1. Memento
2. The Dark Knight
3. The Prestige
4. Inception
5. The Dark Knight Rises
6. Insomnia
7. Batman Begins
8. Following

 

[DA_Champion]

Well if film history tells us anything, it's that genius is never overlooked. Seriously, is this your argument? Nolan is not held as in high regard as these directors according to a small aggregate group of critics, therefore, he can't be held in high regard by others? You do know that pointing to "experts" to support your personal opinion on an art form does not support your argument well.

In fairness he's making a consistent point: that Nolan is overrated among his fan base which he thinks is due to that fan base not watching a broad enough array of movies, and consequently, among people who do watch a very broad range of movies, Nolan stands out less and arguably not at all.

 

[hammerhedd11]

In fairness he's making a consistent point: that Nolan is overrated among his fan base which he thinks is due to that fan base not watching a broad enough array of movies, and consequently, among people who do watch a very broad range of movies, Nolan stands out less and arguably not at all.

But why do a separate group of fans consequently affect his rank or skill as a filmmaker? Sure, maybe the people that think he's the 'best filmmaker ever' might not ultimately watch too many movies made before the 2000's but, in all honesty, who the **** cares? Nolan has no control over who likes his movies or what they say about them, and likewise, the fans have no control over how his movies are executed. Seems like a petty thing to care about in the long run.

slumcat's argument seems to boil down to, ' a lot of people like this filmmaker, but I don't, so here's a list of film critics who don't mention him as one of the best film directors working today, so he must not be very good at all.' Why not just leave it at "I personally don't like his films" and not " I must prove those who like him are wrong" ?

 

[DA_Champion]

It is the Christopher Nolan discussion thread, it's a good place to debate and discuss his merits

 

[CapedCrusader14]

OT, but it's awesome that there seems to be quite a few people on this site who are actually active in the filmmaking industry.

It really is, there are quite a few who are active in it on the forums, I am a bit too (mainly just starting out but still, I consider myself a filmmaker).

 

[Rocketman]

If I were to rate and rank Nolan movies

1. Memento 8/10 (Really good. His best film.)
2. The Dark Knight 7/10 (Good film though extremely over-egged (and over-rated).)
3. Inception 4/10 (Well made trash. Again very dumb.)
4. Batman Begins 4/10 (Dreary and dull. Avoid.)
5. The Dark Knight Rises 1/10 (Garbage. One of the worst superhero movies I have seen.)
6. The Prestige 1/10 (Awful. Extremely idiotic with a conclusion that offends your intelligence.)

Lmao.

 

[Schlosser85]

I put Inception over The Prestige because I feel like The Prestige cheats with its sci-fi twist, while Inception establishes its rules and then plays by them.

Just my opinion.

Also I feel Inception has more heart than The Prestige, where no one is really sympathetic except Rebecca Hall's unfortunate character.

 

[gwynplaine]

The Dark Knight
Memento
Robin Williams in Insomnia

(But even if Nolan had only directed The Dark Knight it would be enough for me, because of him bringing us Heath Ledger as The Jokert

 

[Schlosser85]

I've seen a broad range of movies, and IMO Inception is one of the most ingenious movies I've ever seen, and very well-constructed.

 

[weezerspider]

What distinguishes Nolan from PTA and WA is that his four most recent films are films that a lot of people have watched. If he had not gotten Batman, and continued to make more movies like Insomnia and Memento, he might look a lot like PTA, WA, Aronofsky, etc.

Instead he took a sojourn into blockbusters, and now he is compared to a different group of peers: JJ Abrams, Zack Snyder, Michael Bay, Peter Berg, modern Ridley Scott, Guy Ritchie, McG, Bryan Singer, Guillermo Del Toro, Peter Jackson, etc and against that group he compares very favourably. I don't know if there's been anybody that good among blockbuster directors since Spielberg and Cameron.

If you just look at the directors of recent CBMs, the only one other ones who compared in terms of demonstrated ability are Ang Lee, and arguably Joss Whedon.

Sure, I never said he wasn't the best blockbuster director. He's easily the best blockbuster director right now and only behind Spielberg in history in that category. However, I don't think because he makes blockbusters we should hold him to lower standards. Half the list you mentioned is awful. Most of the other half lost 'it' if they ever had 'it'. One should want to be compared to PTA and Arnofosky, not Michael Bay and Peter Berg.

I love Nolan, but slumcat has made some solid points. I'm not blinded by my Nolan love. There was a time when Nolan was my favorite director. Then I saw a lot more movies. He's still in my top ten, but I see his point. I also disagree that TDKT has hurt his 'credibility' among more cinephiles. Begins and Rises maybe not so much, but most cinephile directed sites show enormous respect for The Dark Knight and Nolan's non-Batman films.

 

[Schlosser85]

Michael Bay is awful. For being an action director, he directs terrible incoherent action scenes.

 

[kvz5]

Also I feel Inception has more heart than The Prestige, where no one is really sympathetic except Rebecca Hall's unfortunate character.

I do understand TP not having an sympathetic character (except for Sarah and arguably [BLACKOUT]Fallon[/BLACKOUT]) but that's how I felt about Inception too. The only one I felt remotely bad about was Fischer and to an extent Mal's character. I had no sympathy for Cobb and I couldn't care less for his team either. In a way, Nolan excels in making unsympathetic characters.

 

[batman1]

Really hard to argue for Peter Jackson over Christopher Nolan -- I completely disagree. Anyhow, let's be honest:

1) Christopher Nolan is probably over-respected among "the masses" due to the Batman movies;
2) Christopher Nolan is probably under-respected among "the top experts" due to the Batman movies;

Overall it's still a good situation for him, because the Batman movies nearly guarantee his future base of funding and thus he can keep making movies, different kinds of movies too and eventually climb up these lists. He's probably a top five director in the world for funding opportunities, so that's something. He's going to take it one movie at a time, one movie every second year, if the past is any indication.

What he's doing with Interstellar, if I understand it correctly, is original. He has Kip Thorne, one of the smartest men in the world and the one who literally co-wrote "the book on gravity", consulting as an executive producer.

Nolan's going to make a space opera where the laws of physics (as interpreted by Thorne ...) are an actual constraint on the storytelling rather than a suggestion that can be bent at will. Nobody's done that before in blockbuster cinema that I can recall, at least not in a long time. Though most of this website doesn't know it, Star Trek and Star are are closer to Lord of the Rings than to genuine science fiction.

A lot of the people who vote in those kinds of lists -- possibly 100% of them -- don't know physics 101, so I won't expect them to realise what Nolan has done, but among those of us who know physics 101, 201, 301, etc the achievement will be appreciated. I've long felt that using nature as a constraint could actually be a tool for innovation.

I think he was smart in doing batman knowing he would turn out the public. Then with Prestige and Inception he never made a bad movie. I think he has the right combination of his brother writing his movies and his wife producing to his strengths. He never has to deviate from that. If you look at his resume he hasn't done a movie he or his bro hasn't wrote in ten years. He has his secret recipe. Which leads me to think he may not be as good as the other legendary directors but he will wind up putting out more groundbreaking work over his entire career. Very smart.

 

[Schlosser85]

I do understand TP not having an sympathetic character (except for Sarah and arguably [BLACKOUT]Fallon[/BLACKOUT]) but that's how I felt about Inception too. The only one I felt remotely bad about was Fischer and to an extent Mal's character. I had no sympathy for Cobb and I couldn't care less for his team either. In a way, Nolan excels in making unsympathetic characters.

I slightly disagree about Inception, but I do basically agree with this.

Pretty much nobody in Inception or The Prestige is a good person except Sarah and maybe Mal (though we never see the real her) and maybe Fischer (though we don't really know what he's like as a businessman and only know about his Daddy issues, so for all we know he's an unethical ass too).

 

[Schlosser85]

One thing all Nolan movies have in common is that they're cold and emotionally detached.

I felt nothing during the Waynes' murder in Batman Begins, or Rachel's death in The Dark Knight. I felt sorry for Sarah in The Prestige, but that was all.

The only moments in Nolan's movies that really have gotten me emotionally are in Inception with Mal's line about how they were supposed to grow old together and then we see their "old" selves in their dream city, and the moment with Fischer and the projection of his father.

 

[Schlosser85]

Oh, and I guess Alfred's speech early in The Dark Knight Rises.

 

[weezerspider]

One thing all Nolan movies have in common is that they're cold and emotionally detached.

I felt nothing during the Waynes' murder in Batman Begins, or Rachel's death in The Dark Knight. I felt sorry for Sarah in The Prestige, but that was all.

The only moments in Nolan's movies that really have gotten me emotionally are in Inception with Mal's line about how they were supposed to grow old together and then we see their "old" selves in their dream city, and the moment with Fischer and the projection of his father.

The moment in Begins when Alfred comforts Bruce and tells him that it wasn't his fault gets me every time. Other than that, yeah, I'd say his films are pretty cold. I was honestly disappointed at the lack of emotion in The Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Schlosser85]

I actually thought TDKR had more emotion than BB or TDK.

But what affects us emotionally is pretty subjective. A scene that does nothing for one person really gets another one. Inception is the only Nolan movie that I find honestly moving at times.

 

[kvz5]

FWIW, Interstellar has more heart than say Inception (at least the version floating around). I think it's because it was originally for Spielberg so the script being made first with Spielberg in mind kind of works for Nolan's favor in this case. He made changes to it though so...

Personally, I thought TDKT and TP (despite having unsympathetic leads) has a lot of heart but I totally get why some consider them cold.

Anyway, in terms of ranking, the middle ones change every now and then but for now -

The Prestige
Memento
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
Inception
The Dark Knight Rises
Insomnia
Following

 

[Harley2004]

Memento 9.3/10
Inception 9.2/10
The Dark Knight 9.1/10
The Dark Knight Rises 8.6/10
Batman Begins 8/10
Following 8/10
The Prestige 7.8/10
Insomnia 7.7/10