BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 177

[KRYPTON INC.]

Is this before or after the wig cannon?

Fixed for awesomeness.

 

[Eggyman]

As much as I love this current Batsuit I would bawl like a baby if Wilkinson could make a real world looking Neal Adams Batsuit complete with yellow oval symbol for JL.

Absolutely. If they could use it to show him coming back from the edge like in New Frontier it'd be perfect.

 

[WBwins]

Big mystery is figuring out how Ww and aquaman fit into all this.Rackin my brains on it

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hopefully WW is Integrated organically without taking away from the main thrust of the film. Frankly I think that like it or not, as withvthe Marvel films, soe conective tissue has to be laid down for the wider universe so there maybe a moment or two that will feel inelegant no matter what.

 

[moviefreak]

If we as the audience were meant to think that the Smallville eyewitness informed the world that the alien with the red cape seems like he's trying to save the earth Snyder and Goyer would done something to hint to that, but they didn't.

There were no hints the the people in Metropolis knew what was happening at the moment besides 'Aliens came to look for another alien' and 'Aliens are attacking'.

Why would you spoon feed the audience the nuance of instant communication when they themselves possess the technology (mobile, pda etc) on their person and they have the knowledge that they could transmit historic events as it happened in real life in the last decade? The best way to do film of this nature is to show Superman saving someone for example, but the film-makers decided not to focus too much on that aspect. The people in Smallville obvious have mobile phone and they would have captured footage of the battle --but in the film this aspect of technological transmission was not addressed.

At best it's vague on how people in Metropolis precieved the Alien. I suspect that this aspect will be addressed in BvS --a whole lot of off screen stories including Bruce Wayne on ground in Metropolis.

They could have made that connection. But assuming that every single person connected all the scattered dots and came to that singular conclusion is unrealistic and borderline silly to me. Many of the people could have equally assumed that the alien hiding might have been simply waiting for the right moment to conquer them.

Indeed, some could have made the connection but not everyone has the capacity for logical thinking and this planet is host to a large segment of dunderheads.

I think that a lot of us are overthinking the film (MOS). It is not meant to go too deep. I suspect that BvS will try to go deep, maybe too deep that the movie will suffer. The best and most enjoyable film experience for an action movie is one made from a simple story.

 

[MrsKent26]

How "dark" are we all willing to go with this version of Batman? How "cruel and unrelenting" with the criminal element and opponents would be too much?

I really think this is going to be a live action Batman that is going to have lots of anger. It can be a strength but all too often it's a weakness in real life. It blinds, it's addictive (especially when self righteousness is added to the mix) and it can ultimately be self defeating. Yet I think if what some rumored ideas about the losses Bruce may have gone through as Batman are true, then it makes sense for there to be a lot of anger in him.

The question is... How much is over the line in terms of presentation?

That's a good question.

Since batman is a hero, it's a tricky thing to do. But I don't think it'd be OOC for him to have this anger. Didn't that EW article say he's been fighting for 20 years? That's a long life of battle and loss. And then comes this alien...this savior that made his debut in one of humanity's most devastating disasters. I think the key to getting the batman-as-antagonist thing right is for the movie to clearly communicate things from both his and superman's point of view. There are legit reasons for batman's distrust. Batman's general anger and long battle history, the unfortunate circumstances surrounding superman's debut, the latent power and potential for corruption some see in superman, the overly reverent behavior of some humans, and devious action by Luthor should be enough for a seemingly reasonable stand against superman.

As for taking things too far, I think the only way they could do that is to make batman ignore any good qualities he sees in superman. He should struggle with his anger and fight with himself as he decides to take action. He should also learn at some point that superman is a good guy and change his attitude according (of course this means they need to show that superman is good).

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

That's a good question.

Since batman is a hero, it's a tricky thing to do. But I don't think it'd be OOC for him to have this anger. Didn't that EW article say he's been fighting for 20 years? That's a long life of battle and loss. And then comes this alien...this savior that made his debut in one of humanity's most devastating disasters. I think the key to getting the batman-as-antagonist thing right is for the movie to clearly communicate things from both his and superman's point of view. There are legit reasons for batman's distrust. Batman's general anger and long battle history, the unfortunate circumstances surrounding superman's debut, the latent power and potential for corruption some see in superman, the overly reverent behavior of some humans, and devious action by Luthor should be enough for a seemingly reasonable stand against superman.

As for taking things too far, I think the only way they could do that is to make batman ignore any good qualities he sees in superman. He should struggle with his anger and fight with himself as he decides to take action. He should also learn at some point that superman is a good guy and change his attitude according (of course this means they need to show that superman is good).

That's another needle that needs to be threaded. Yes, there are differences in character and approach between Batman and other heroes. Yes this brings in NEEDED conflict and drama to super hero stories, lest we devolve to SUPERFRIENDS levels of complexity... It's just too often I think Batman just comes off as a cold asshat the way he's been written in comics and toons.

On the other hand, this does make sense that he'd be prickly and sometimes come off as harsh or blunt, but he's a MAN doing an unenviable job that easily can make you rough and cynical.

So I do think he can be a rough customer... I just don't want him too extreme by film's end and I sure don't want him to treat people and friends that aren't criminals like crap.

 

[Urich Leeds]

Why can't we have a white eyed Batman. :

 

[Lencho01]

Could happen someday.

 

[Binker]

Did anyone hear that the article in EW (I believe it was, must be) revealed the original idea for MOS2?! And how it led up to BvS? Basically the plot would've been Superman vs. Metallo; Luthor would have to be in the film too, obviously, but at pitch meetings, Snyder had the idea of an ending/post credits scene with a crate of kryptonite placed at the home of Wayne Manor. Once he said that, that led to the creation of BvS instead.

Knowing this now, and knowing well now that BvS, a cautious film before is now highly anticipated now; what do you guys think?

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Why can't we have a white eyed Batman. :

That's an awesome cover.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Did anyone hear that the article in EW (I believe it was, must be) revealed the original idea for MOS2?! And how it led up to BvS? Basically the plot would've been Superman vs. Metallo; Luthor would have to be in the film too, obviously, but at pitch meetings, Snyder had the idea of an ending/post credits scene with a crate of kryptonite placed at the home of Wayne Manor. Once he said that, that led to the creation of BvS instead.

Knowing this now, and knowing well now that BvS, a cautious film before is now highly anticipated now; what do you guys think?

Yea, I read this. I feel the same. It didn't change anything for me.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Did anyone hear that the article in EW (I believe it was, must be) revealed the original idea for MOS2?! And how it led up to BvS? Basically the plot would've been Superman vs. Metallo; Luthor would have to be in the film too, obviously, but at pitch meetings, Snyder had the idea of an ending/post credits scene with a crate of kryptonite placed at the home of Wayne Manor. Once he said that, that led to the creation of BvS instead.

Knowing this now, and knowing well now that BvS, a cautious film before is now highly anticipated now; what do you guys think?

I don't understand the question?
Also, the thing about the Kryptonite being delivered ect. has been known for a long time, Snyder has talked about it before.

 

[Monochron]

Why would you spoon feed the audience the nuance of instant communication when they themselves possess the technology (mobile, pda etc) on their person and they have the knowledge that they could transmit historic events as it happened in real life in the last decade? The best way to do film of this nature is to show Superman saving someone for example, but the film-makers decided not to focus too much on that aspect. The people in Smallville obvious have mobile phone and they would have captured footage of the battle --but in the film this aspect of technological transmission was not addressed.

I'm asking for some kind of small hint. I disagree that that count as spoon feeding.

At best it's vague on how people in Metropolis precieved the Alien. I suspect that this aspect will be addressed in BvS --a whole lot of off screen stories including Bruce Wayne on ground in Metropolis.

Yes that's pretty much what I've been trying to argue.

 

[Monochron]

Why can't we have a white eyed Batman. :

I guess El Mayimbe was right about the cover.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Another MOS debate with the same arguments in favor or against.

Sweet Jesus.

There is already two threads at the moment also debating MOS. I know the mods have said not to bring up Marvel etc, but could this apply as well to MOS debate?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Another MOS debate with the same arguments in favor or against.

Sweet Jesus.

There is already two threads at the moment also debating MOS. I know the mods have said not to bring up Marvel etc, but could this apply as well to MOS debate?

How "Dark"would be too dark in terms of Batman's character for you Sam? What's too much or is that not something you think should have an upper limit barring out right homicide of course?

 

[MrsKent26]

That's another needle that needs to be threaded. Yes, there are differences in character and approach between Batman and other heroes. Yes this brings in NEEDED conflict and drama to super hero stories, lest we devolve to SUPERFRIENDS levels of complexity... It's just too often I think Batman just comes off as a cold asshat the way he's been written in comics and toons.

On the other hand, this does make sense that he'd be prickly and sometimes come off as harsh or blunt, but he's a MAN doing an unenviable job that easily can make you rough and cynical.

So I do think he can be a rough customer... I just don't want him too extreme by film's end and I sure don't want him to treat people and friends that aren't criminals like crap.

Indeed. I think they (and we) need to remember that he is a man. He's got biases and flaws like any other. They need to show how he feels about things. He could be a rough and cynical man at the start and I think that's a shrewd move if they want him to be a credible antagonist (which it seems they do based on the trailer). Let him be merciless at the beginning and let the years of anguish diminish his compassion just a bit. But when that's done, let him be devastated when he realizes he made a mistake. Those of us who like mos or parts of it defend superman by saying he's fallible and real. I think the same allowances should be given to batman. It will make for good drama if they let him grow from the clash with superman. It will also make him a more sympathetic and dynamic character.

If we see batman, as smart and capable as he is, learning that he was wrong about someone and a rookie superman growing into his legendary self to inspire people as long-suffering as batman, I'll be able to cheer for both characters.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

I'd love it if the film ended with Clark and Bruce shaking hands.

Henry said they share a "firm" handshake at some point so it looks like that might happen

 

[Captain Tired]

I'd love it if the film ended with Clark and Bruce shaking hands.

Should totally end like

 

[Black Narcissus]

How "Dark"would be too dark in terms of Batman's character for you Sam? What's too much or is that not something you think should have an upper limit barring out right homicide of course?

Well, this Batman is going to be vicious and very brutal. Comments made by Roven himself. I want my batman breaking bones and taking names. But not cray like the punisher.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Indeed. I think they (and we) need to remember that he is a man. He's got biases and flaws like any other. They need to show how he feels about things. He could be a rough and cynical man at the start and I think that's a shrewd move if they want him to be a credible antagonist (which it seems they do based on the trailer). Let him be merciless at the beginning and let the years of anguish diminish his compassion just a bit. But when that's done, let him be devastated when he realizes he made a mistake. Those of us who like mos or parts of it defend superman by saying he's fallible and real. I think the same allowances should be given to batman. It will make for good drama if they let him grow from the clash with superman. It will also make him a more sympathetic and dynamic character.

If we see batman, as smart and capable as he is, learning that he was wrong about someone and a rookie superman growing into his legendary self to inspire people as long-suffering as batman, I'll be able to cheer for both characters.

We know that the clergyman that Clark went to is in BVS. If there is a scene with Batman and him, perhaps seeking first hand knowledge of Supes, that will be a big indicator of what this Batman is all about. Does he handle a small town man of the cloth the way he does a common thug from Gotham? That would be interesting to see play out.

 

[Sawyer]

Why can't we have a white eyed Batman. :

Because I don't care about that.

 

[MrsKent26]

We know that the clergyman that Clark went to is in BVS. If there is a scene with Batman and him, perhaps seeking first hand knowledge of Supes, that will be a big indicator of what this Batman is all about. Does he handle a small town man of the cloth the way he does a common thug from Gotham? That would be interesting to see play out.

I didn't know that clergyman was in BvS. Hmm. Seems like we might see some Bat-detective in this. Excellent. Or maybe just more of supes seeking advice.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well, this Batman is going to be vicious and very brutal. Comments made by Roven himself. I want my batman breaking bones and taking names. But not cray like the punisher.

Would you be okay with a Batman that enjoys the acts of violence he commits? I wonder how the audience would react to a full on gleefully cruel Batman? There wasn't a sense of Bale enjoying that in TDKT, but that's very Miller Batman I think.