BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 198

[Fallen Angel]

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He also addressed recent rumors that the focus of Batman v. Superman is skewing more Batman than Superman with six months left to go before it hits theaters.

“Only in that because it’s a different Batman than the Batman that was in the Chris Nolan movies, so we have a little bit more explaining to do—and you just had a whole Superman movie,” he smiled. “But I think only in that way, because you need to understand where Batman is with everything. And that’s more toward the beginning, but it evens back out as it goes on.”
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I think based on this Batfleck will have a bit more screen time than Cav-El and that doesn't bother me (if it doesn't come at the expense of Cav-El having any scenes cut or anything) but I kinda find his ''you just had a whole Superman movie'' comment weak. I mean he himself said it's not a Superman movie until the very end, it's a movie about Clark becoming Superman. Either way one could also say we just had a Batman movie a year prior to the Superman movie.

I hope thats not WB's exuse for no MOS2 (even though for now I consider BvS as MOS2 so let's say another Superman solo film); ''You've just had one, now it's time for all others!''. Probably reading too much into this but hey it's better than reading too much into that Ant-Man comment that has everyone (on some other sites) ******** and engaging in DC/Marvel ''wars''.

You missed this point though. So Eh Maybe looking like a *****e again.

but it evens back out as it goes on.”

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I see that these comments are already being used as fan ammo when:

1. He said the establishment of Ben's Batman is early on but he himself said that the film evens out as it goes on. This was expected and doesn't portend a "Batman centric film". So please, all ya'll who want to rustle Superfans jimmies for sport... Keep that in mind (and Superfans... This was expected. Setting up the specifics of this Batman was going to take some screen time. It's not the end of the world.

2. Marvel fans... MOS, the cornerstone of the DCEU, did well within the range of the BO of the phase one films. It made more than BATMAN BEGINS and IRON MAN. It wasn't a financial failure (anymore than idiots that call AOU a failure) and while it's a "divisive" film online the wider audience doesn't seem all that concerned about that rancor and the split (and it is a SPLIT, not some unanimous opinion) in fanboy nation. You'd think the success of the MCU would make some people not take offense to stating the obvious which of course is...

3. As already ponted out Snyder was seemingly referring to Superman and Batman as mythological pop-culture phenomenons that are in their ways bigger than just movies, TV shows or comic books. This is just a statement of fact as far as I am concerned.

 

[G.Godfrey]

You missed this point though. So Eh Maybe looking like a *****e again.

but it evens back out as it goes on.”

Didn't miss it, saw it and understood it but not believing it will completley even out due to the nature and tone of Snyders comments. And it doesn't bother me one way or the other. He also could have meant that Batfleck has more screen time in the beggining and then they are even mid-to end of the flick, I mean it's Zack so who knows right. t:

 

[John Locke]

Snyder needs to find a different way to answer a question than comparing Superman/Batman to a Marvel character. He's not wrong though and treating them like mythological characters could be a way to evolve the genre.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I like Snyder. I know he means well. However, I'm sometimes baffled with some of the things he says. Superman and Batman are yes, indeed iconic and popular characters. He's right in that regard, but his obsession with viewing these characters as mythological beings is getting tiresome at this point. His comments here do sound a bit pretentious IMO. With those comments he just made, he better hope to God BvS is a great film and not have another decisive reaction like MoS.

The CBM genre has changed and evolved. He should really realize that at this point.

I have to ask what you mean? Viewing super heroes through a mythological lens is something that's been going on for quite a few decades now among the fans (and not an inconsiderate amount of scholars in academia).

Snyder is just taking the ball that has been in play since SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE and running with it. You can be tired (after one movie) of his take but he's hardly the first one to talk about these characters in such a way nor is he the first (or last) film maker that is tackling them with a strong bent towards "modern mythology".

But then, that all seems self evident to me away from the hothouse environs of the online world.

 

[G.Godfrey]

Snyder needs to find a different way to answer a question than comparing Superman/Batman to a Marvel character.

Let him have his fun. He seems to be pretty up to date on whats going on in the fanboy interwebs circles and I think he likes to troll a bit. I mean, whats anyone going to do about it? Go to his big, rich house and complain only to get smacked over the head with an imax camera?

 

[Marz69]

What Superman sees as Batman’s limits, Batman sees as Superman trying to control him, acting like an absolute dictator. - Snyder

 

[jokesonm3]

Some say he might have nightmares about that.

 

[matt47]

What Superman sees as Batman’s limits, Batman sees as Superman trying to control him, acting like an absolute dictator. - Snyder

 

[TeeKay]

I have to ask what you mean? Viewing super heroes through a mythological lens is something that's been going on for quite a few decades now among the fans (and not an inconsiderate amount of scholars in academia).

Snyder is just taking the ball that has been in play since SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE and running with it. You can be tired (after one movie) of his take but he's hardly the first one to talk about these characters in such a way nor is he the first (or last) film maker that is tackling them with a strong bent towards "modern mythology".

But then, that all seems self evident to me away from the hothouse environs of the online world.

Because he beat me over the head with it in MoS with all the Jesus symbolism. It was eye rolling. I get its something that has been done for decades like you've pointed out. Its seems like it'll just be rinse and repeat in BvS as well. I dunno where I read it but someone pointed out that his obsession with treating these characters as "mythological" beings is gonna run the DCCU into the ground." We'll see.

 

[Marz69]

The war is coming because of those comments.

His comment is a beacon for certain fanboys to come out of the woodwork and comment in this thread.

I don't think he made any offense by it. But there's been some hate going between extremists and so it will be viewed as "shots fired" by some. There's nothing wrong with a more serious take and there's nothing wrong with "popcorn" flicks. I like having both.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a director liking the serious or popcorn take on what they're doing.

 

[Boom]

I don't disagree with Snyder's comments about the Trinity being American icons. I'm just not so sure he's the best man to capitalize on it.

Love to be proven wrong.

 

[Micromind]

I like Snyder. I know he means well. However, I'm sometimes baffled with some of the things he says. Superman and Batman are yes, indeed iconic and popular characters. He's right in that regard, but his obsession with viewing these characters as mythological beings is getting tiresome at this point. His comments here do sound a bit pretentious IMO. With those comments he just made, he better hope to God BvS is a great film and not have another decisive reaction like MoS.

The CBM genre has changed and evolved. He should really realize that at this point.

Urmm...

Wonder how fans would react if Snyder responded with something like -

"Batman, Superman are not some mythological figures, they are typical square jawed comic book heroes, not unlike what our competitors over at Marvel have.

My movie is not any different from those, it's as much entertaining."



Edit: Did anyone really expect him to say something like that ?

 

[dhandler01]

I like Snyder. I know he means well. However, I'm sometimes baffled with some of the things he says. Superman and Batman are yes, indeed iconic and popular characters. He's right in that regard, but his obsession with viewing these characters as mythological beings is getting tiresome at this point. His comments here do sound a bit pretentious IMO. With those comments he just made, he better hope to God BvS is a great film and not have another decisive reaction like MoS.

The CBM genre has changed and evolved. He should really realize that at this point.

Snyder didnt make that up...that is how people have distinguished the two universes for a while. Look up any quote by Grant Morrison about the JLA or DC in general.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What Superman sees as Batman’s limits, Batman sees as Superman trying to control him, acting like an absolute dictator. - Snyder

As Jeremy Pennyworth told Bruce: "He is not your enemy."

 

[dhandler01]

Because he beat me over the head with it in MoS with all the Jesus symbolism. It was eye rolling. I get its something that has been done for decades like you've pointed out. Its seems like it'll just be rinse and repeat in BvS as well. I dunno where I read it but someone pointed out that his obsession with treating these characters as "mythological" beings is gonna run the DCCU into the ground." We'll see.

Someone on the internet took a comment by a director they probably dont like and used it to prove that everything he is doing will destroy everything in a hyperbolic matter? GET RIGHT OUT OF TOWN!!!

 

[Marz69]

The latest hot rumor I am hearing is that Warners is requesting more Batman be put into the movie and less Superman. Supposedly, Ben Affleck's Batman is so good that he is blowing Henry Cavill's Superman right off the screen. - El Maybe

is a lot different than....

“Only in that because it’s a different Batman than the Batman that was in the Chris Nolan movies, so we have a little bit more explaining to do—and you just had a whole Superman movie,” he smiled. “But I think only in that way, because you need to understand where Batman is with everything. And that’s more toward the beginning, but it evens back out as it goes on.” - Snyder

Click Bait, nothing more with El Maybe

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Because he beat me over the head with it in MoS with all the Jesus symbolism. It was eye rolling. I get its something that has been done for decades like you've pointed out. Its seems like it'll just be rinse and repeat in BvS as well. I dunno where I read it but someone pointed out that his obsession with treating these characters as "mythological" beings is gonna run the DCCU into the ground." We'll see.

Tell it to Dick Donner.

"They can be a great people Kal-El... If they wished it. They only lack the light to show them the way. For this reason above all... Their capacity for good... I have sent them you... My only son."

Superman is indeed a sci fi Hercules/messiah. Fans that are uncomfortable with that being highlighted are out of luck. It's baked in (and frankly EXPECTED especially when trying to reintroduce the character to the big screen since it is part and parcel of this particular "myth") and it's part of the character's appeal whether it makes atheists, believers or anyone inbetween uncomfortable or those that just feel it's overplayed. To my mind it's just something you have to put up with, just as we have to put up with the trauma of the Wayne murders with Batman, or the allegory/mdtaphors of social stigma and oppression that are inherently in the X-Men.

 

[Micromind]

The idea that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are everyman (woman) is absurd.

While that works with characters like Spider-Man, (Flash and current Blue Beetle) it's not really applicable to trinity.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

His comment is a beacon for certain fanboys to come out of the woodwork and comment in this thread.

Amanda... That you?

 

[TeeKay]

Tell it to Dick Donner.

"They can be a great people Kal-El... If they wished it. They only lack the light to show them the way. For this reason above all... Their capacity for good... I have sent them you... My only son."

Superman is indeed a sci fi Hercules/messiah. Fans that are uncomfortable with that being highlighted are out of luck. It's baked in (and frankly EXPECTED especially when trying to reintroduce the character to the big screen since it is part and parcel of this particular "myth") and it's part of the character's appeal whether it makes atheists, believers or anyone inbetween uncomfortable or those that just feel it's overplayed. To my mind it's just something you have to put up with, just as we have to put up with the trauma of the Wayne murders with Batman, or the allegory/mdtaphors of social stigma and oppression that are inherently in the X-Men.

I know its in Supes mythology. My point is that Snyder went so far as to try and show us that Supes and his world have a mythological feel that he forgot to make a good movie. It works if you have a good writer but if you don't, it doesn't work.

 

[Nemeres]

Flavor of the week Guardians made a bigger impact on film culture than Superman's Man of Steel. More quotable/memorable, more embraced; it made a bigger statement precisely because it featured nobodies, so it proved more. Zack is using the easy example with Ant-Man.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

I don't disagree with Snyder's comments about the Trinity being American icons. I'm just not so sure he's the best man to capitalize on it.

Love to be proven wrong.

Absolutely. This is where I hope Terrio helps out a bit more in. Snyder can no doubt make them look like Gods and feel like Gods but that's not enough. They are huge characters with a lot of history. Utilize that.

You can't just reduce them to "flavors of the week."

 

[Micromind]

Flavor of the week Guardians made a bigger impact on film culture than Superman's Man of Steel. More quotable/memorable, more embraced; it made a bigger statement precisely because it featured nobodies, so it proved more. Zack is using the easy example with Ant-Man.

GOTG was more popular / successful than MOS... but how does that affect who Superman is ?

 

[AnneFan]

Ant Man was a pretty fun movie, and I liked Guardians of the Galaxy too. But I get what Snyder means. It's Batman and Superman. Even if they have flop after flop in movies, they're the biggest superheroes in the business. Nothing is going to change that. They're the two big icons that people automatically think of.