BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 222

[jokesonm3]

And now go see AngryJoe's reaction to Doomsday. Poor guy.

He was angry as hell that WB/DC used Doomsday! Saying he wanted them to use it for a future Superman film, he is peeved lol!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Guys like that need to get with the program that the films are not made to be beat for best recreations of the books. We have had eight years of the MCU to prove that these cinematic universe will cherry pick what is going to make it in whole cloth, what is going to be changed up and what is just gonna be ignored. This has not stopped Marvel's success and it won't stop WB/DC. WE MAY NEVER see a DOS story, or KNIGHTFAL, or any of hundreds of storylines from the comics. Make peace with that fans.

 

[Val_Zod]

The fact some people still consider Doomsday a "great" rogue of Superman . Doomsday is nothing but a physical force. You don't need Doomsday to even tell a great Death Of Superman story. Besides, Doomsday can always comeback to be that villain for that hypothetical film, not that'd I'd care to see that story; way more interesting stories to take influence from.

 

[Mad Love]

He is a great rogue because physical force is one of the defining things about Superman. It also ties into the genetic idea of a "superman".

Bane broke Batman's back. Doomsday killed Superman.

 

[jokesonm3]

Btw isn't Doomsday like...... unkillable?

 

[X Knight]

He is a great rogue because physical force is one of the defining things about Superman. It also ties into the genetic idea of a "superman".

Bane broke Batman's back. Doomsday killed Superman.

I remember when I was a kid and my dad told me they killed Superman.

I wasn't even that into Superman back then ( more of a Spider-Man fan then ).

but hearing that Superman "died" was still a pretty big deal.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm telling you guys... Zombie rules. Go to town. Give the Trinity chainsaw hands, whatever.

 

[Beatnation]

He is a great rogue because physical force is one of the defining things about Superman. It also ties into the genetic idea of a "superman".

Bane broke Batman's back. Doomsday killed Superman.

I disagree, he's a plot device, 0 personality, he doesn't even speak, he's just mindless brute force and that's it.

Bane is a good character, Doomsday isn't.

 

[sabetoonth]

Btw isn't Doomsday like...... unkillable?

Yes and no.

He can be killed. But then he will revive immune to whatever killed him before. Hyper-evolution I like to call it. A single organism evolving to withstand whatever has managed to end it. As far as Im aware, he's immune in the comics to immolation, skin penetration and being beaten to death(this one was Superman).

 

[sportjames23]

In such a simplistic way, yeah. Personally, i would make them not digging each other for a few movies. They could maybe join forces if they HAD TO, but it would be nice to have this constant tension and conflict of ideas between them.

I would also not have Doomsday or any other villain in this movie at all. I think you have more than enough content to make a great movie just with Batman, Superman and Lex. There's so much to explore.

No thank you. I'd hate for the DCCU to go with the tired assed Frank Millerization of the Batman/Superman dynamic.

 

[Mad Love]

I remember when I was a kid and my dad told me they killed Superman.

I wasn't even that into Superman back then ( more of a Spider-Man fan then ).

but hearing that Superman "died" was still a pretty big deal.

Same here. Death of Superman was the only comic event I knew about as a kid. It was all over the news. I cut out newspaper articles about it and put it on my wall. lol

 

[Val_Zod]

He is a great rogue because physical force is one of the defining things about Superman. It also ties into the genetic idea of a "superman".

Bane broke Batman's back. Doomsday killed Superman.

I disagree. Bane challenged Batman both physically and mentally, while Doomsday was just a overpowering foe for Superman on just a physical level. Since then, they've mostly used him as a physical threat, and making him a foe strong enough to justify the trinity to fight him, without using the real heavy weight villains, such as Darkseid or Brainiac.

 

[jokesonm3]

Yes and no.

He can be killed. But then he will revive immune to whatever killed him before. Hyper-evolution I like to call it. A single organism evolving to withstand whatever has managed to end it. As far as Im aware, he's immune in the comics to immolation, skin penetration and being beaten to death(this one was Superman).

I see, thanks!

 

[sabetoonth]

I see, thanks!

He is very, very, VERY old, originating on Krypton. He's been around the Universe a bit before he was crashed into the Earth I think thousands of years ago. He's also immune to more than listed, I just can't think of specifics right now.
EDIT:

I disagree. Bane challenged Batman both physically and mentally, while Doomsday was just a overpowering foe for Superman on just a physical level. Since then, they've mostly used him as a physical threat, and making him a foe strong enough to justify the trinity to fight him, without using the real heavy weight villains, such as Darkseid or Brainiac.

Wasn't there a story whee Doomsday someow got some intelligence, even ended up on he same side as Superman and then sacrificed that intellect to save him or something?

Its admittedly been a long time since I read up on Doomsday

 

[Mad Love]

I disagree, he's a plot device, 0 personality, he doesn't even speak, he's just mindless brute force and that's it.

Bane is a good character, Doomsday isn't.

You could say all villains are plot devices. Doomsday is one dimensional but he's suppose to be. That's the point. He's a pure and simple idea. I disagree that characters have to be complex in order to be a "good" character. Doomsday wouldn't have stuck around if there wasn't anything good about him. It's not like he was the only physical threat Superman ever had, and yet Doomsday remains iconic.

By the way, Doomsday isn't a mindless brute. That's a talking point I see a lot. He isn't a stupid dope. Think of him as the ultimate predator as in the animal kingdom. Predators aren't dumb. They're focused on one thing.

 

[sabetoonth]

You could say all villains are plot devices. Doomsday is one dimensional but he's suppose to be. That's the point. He's a pure and simple idea. I disagree that characters have to be complex in order to be a "good" character. Doomsday wouldn't have stuck around if there wasn't anything good about him. It's not like he was the only physical threat Superman ever had, and yet Doomsday remains iconic.

By the way, Doomsday isn't a mindless brute. That's a talking point I see a lot. He isn't a stupid dope. Think of him as the ultimate predator as in the animal kingdom. Predators aren't dumb. They're focused on one thing.

The complete annihilation of every living thing in its path

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's interesting to see that in reaction vids Doomsday and WW get a big pop from the reactors.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

So that line "Devils don't come from Hell beneath us, they come from the sky" was not referring to Superman, but Zod. He said it just as they showed Zod's corpse (in the other trailer). And in this one he clearly calls Zodsday The Devil - "If man won't kill God, the Devil will do it".

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I'm telling you guys... Zombie rules. Go to town. Give the Trinity chainsaw hands, whatever.

That'd be pretty..... Groovy.

 

[KillerWolf]

Just saw Diana at Lex's party in the trailer, the woman in red with hair styled on top passing in the background when Clark introduces himself to Bruce:

Couldn't find a better still of her on the internet, but pause at 0:20 and you'll see it's Gadot in this dress:

 

[Flint Marko]

Like I stated it's a back burner thing but... It solved a lot of issues in the film for me given the two previous trailers. It explained an inciting incident for Bruce to go from just having Superman as a focus for his feeling of helplessness on the day of the Black Zero attack, it explained the tyrant Superman in the Knightmare part, and the scene of Superman kneeling to Lex. It also would have done what I think is a built in element this sort of film has: Having your cake and eating it too. You could show a being that was presented to the audience in the Knightmare part that could well kill Bruce in that alt future thus showing that a being like Superman without his morals would curb stomp Batman, and then later give Batmana win over Superman, thus showing that despite all his powers Superman's character can be and even bigger weakness than Kryptonite to him.

Plus... The other probable choices to solve these issue, mind control or Lex holding Martha or Lois hostage feel WAY more weak tea to me than an evil duplicate, not to mention, the mythos HAS a duplicate as part of it's canon ready to adapt in Bizarro.

It's moot now since I suspect after seeing this last trailer that the odds on the duplicate just dramatically decreased. Still... The issues I brought up need some kind of explanation, I just don't see any particular elegant way right now myself... Which is in it's way better for me since I'm more likely now to be surprised at how it all plays out.

I'm certainly not a huge fan of this last trailer, but one thing I'll give it is that it raised a lot of questions and has us speculating, which is certainly a good thing and a testament to the fact that they didn't "show too much". Did they need to show Doomsday? It's too early for me to tell yet, but there's still a lot left in this movie that'll surprise us I think.
I was listening to Fatman on Batman and Mark Bernardin weighed in on this and basically said his theory is that everything we saw in the "Knightmare" sequence is a vision Wonder Woman had of the future if Batman and Superman didn't resolve their differences. This vision is why she leaves Themyscira and why she's involved in the film in the first place, which I think makes a lot of sense.

 

[Rapunzel]

Like I stated it's a back burner thing but... It solved a lot of issues in the film for me given the two previous trailers. It explained an inciting incident for Bruce to go from just having Superman as a focus for his feeling of helplessness on the day of the Black Zero attack, it explained the tyrant Superman in the Knightmare part, and the scene of Superman kneeling to Lex. It also would have done what I think is a built in element this sort of film has: Having your cake and eating it too. You could show a being that was presented to the audience in the Knightmare part that could well kill Bruce in that alt future thus showing that a being like Superman without his morals would curb stomp Batman, and then later give Batmana win over Superman, thus showing that despite all his powers Superman's character can be and even bigger weakness than Kryptonite to him.

Plus... The other probable choices to solve these issue, mind control or Lex holding Martha or Lois hostage feel WAY more weak tea to me than an evil duplicate, not to mention, the mythos HAS a duplicate as part of it's canon ready to adapt in Bizarro.

It's moot now since I suspect after seeing this last trailer that the odds on the duplicate just dramatically decreased. Still... The issues I brought up need some kind of explanation, I just don't see any particular elegant way right now myself... Which is in it's way better for me since I'm more likely now to be surprised at how it all plays out.

My theory: Lex makes it seems like Supes is dangerous. Frames him for something bad. Bats takes the bait and thinks Supes is evil. Thus, the "knightmare." This could explain his increased anger at Supes and the knightmare without a clone.

I'm starting to suspect the kneeling and standing behind Lex scene are real Superman acting diff because Lois is Lex's hostage. To me, that's understandable. I would love it if the kneeling scene was Lex forcing Supes to kneel as the price of letting Lois go. That works perfectly for me.

 

[jokesonm3]

Here's Diana

Diana (in red dress) at Lex's party:

 

[paulogonza]

the cc trailer still the best, but i liked alot this one, if we will have a DC universe on front, we need less realistic tone, because spacial creatures, gods and atlanteans will not be realistic at all.

 

[KillerWolf]

Here's Diana

Ah, I see I'm late with this. Nice!