BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 245

[Ahasverus]

A non gliding cape is ridiculous, superman I can get it, kryptonina heritage and all that, but a master martial artist wouldn't want 15kg of sturdy leather on his back.

 

[roach]

Thanks, now the people on the train ask themselves why I just laughed really awkwardly.

you are welcome

 

[Guts]

Or.....

Wait for it.....

Supergirl IS Wonder Woman! Imagine the fan backlash.

Lets just hope they'res no Superman/Wonder Woman romance.

 

[roach]

A non gliding cape is ridiculous, superman I can get it, kryptonina heritage and all that, but a master martial artist wouldn't want 15kg of sturdy leather on his back.

If we are gonna use logic then a Master Martial Artist wouldn't use a cape period

 

[rogbngp]

Per the MoS prequel comic, didn't the Kryptonian scout ship land in the arctic roughly 18,000 years ago with Kara and her nemesis, Dev-Em, still alive aboard it?

When we see someone walking away from the craft after it crashes it isn't clear whether that's Kara or Dev-Em.

My speculation about this is that it makes me wonder what sort of role they both played (if both survived--but at least one clearly does) as 'gods' in the development of human civilization.

 

[brandeezy89]

Umberto has some big news relating Batman. He'll be posting it in a few mins on Twitter

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nice! I love the design of the comic, but more importantly the characters seem to be fleshed out a bit, especially Senator Finch who seems to be taking up a major portion of role along with Superman/Clark, Batman/Wayne, Lois & Lex.

I feel that this Weidman chap represented the fanboys who criticised the destruction & loss of life in MOS.

Spoiler

Wow... I love it. I love grappling with these issues honestly. I love the fairy tale aspect of super hero stories. But I love taking the responsibilities, pressures and conundrums Superman is forced to reckon with in a way that is serious and asks questions of what ramifications could arise from his mere existence. The morality of Superman, both intellectually, what's been established through creators and editorial fiat over decades is actually NOT some simplistic child like moral view that actually gets more obtuse the more you try to justify it in light of the character's actual history.

Look... I grew as a child in Reagan's America. We had in the country a an overweening pride in our strength militarily and our own moral righteousness. So you start asking, as a child with all the innocence and ignorance that a child has, why if we are so great and good that there are places in the world with such terrible leadership allowing or enacting on it's populations so much suffering. Why don't we just send our forces to kick ass, free people and set the world to right? (Any of you coming of age during this new century... Any of this sound familiar?)

As a sober minded adult who can take a long view, with some perspective and a little gained wisdom, that view seems so very childish and naïve to me now. It's based off of a limited understanding of human nature and history. One thing that changed my thoughts on this was exploring the Superman mythos.

What better stand in for the nation of the U.S. than Superman, right? And what I learned was that Superman does allow a lot of horrible things to happen not because he is immoral or ethically lacking, but because he IS moral and the responsibility on his shoulders means he cannot approach everything as if it were a simple case of punching out a bad guy or giving an inspirational and high minded speech appealing to our better angels. From setting himself up a as ultimate arbiter, to stunting the drive to excel in mankind to simply not seeing unintended consequences and beyond, Superman has a lot on his plate that he has to balance in trying to do the right thing (which, actually if we are grappling with morals in our lives we all are doing though on a scale that is far smaller than Superman's of course) as he sees it. It in fact, despite what others would prefer to think, SIMPLE, or SIMPLEMINDED. For all the smiles and good humor, if you truly are taking the character seriously, then he also MUST have an inner life which understands and accepts his own limitations on his influence on the planet and which indeed must be saddened at the terrible things he has to allow for the sake of issues greater to the whole of humanity than even individual lives often. This I like to think, spurs him on to be better and better at trying to thread the moral needles that are before him, that once he became an adult he's put great thought into.

Now, that is of course the ideal from the eternally in his thirties Superman of the printed page. For an adaptation to film the process of how such a character and his views come about has to be illustrated through a limited amount of a film's runtime, and the need for drama and conflict, better rounding of characters in general, all shape how he is going to come across on screen, and I am very happy that what we are seeing, since MOS really in my opinion, is a good grip on reckoning with the character as person with a real inner life and struggles, and the prequel comics point to BvS continuing this.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

If we are gonna use logic then a Master Martial Artist wouldn't use a cape period

You said it drift brotha, not me.

 

[fake]

A 15 minute long interview with Zack Snyder: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hall_o...superman-dawn-of-justice-director-zack-snyder

Interview starts at 2:27

 

[Batsfan1]

Ahh,totally agree then mate sorry thought you meant the cover

It looks a little more like Matt Bomer to me.

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

 

[kendalag]

LOL at Umberto's 'Batman' related news. What a joke. Zorro LOL

 

[Tobias]

LOL at Umberto's 'Batman' related news. What a joke. Zorro LOL

What was Umberto's news?

 

[kendalag]

What was Umberto's news?

He teased superhero movie news and mentioned 'Batman' would be interested in it ... and his story is someone is writing a new Zorro movie.

 

[Wally_West]

LOL at Umberto's 'Batman' related news. What a joke. Zorro LOL

To be fair, he never said it was gonna be Batman scoop.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

A 15 minute long interview with Zack Snyder: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hall_o...superman-dawn-of-justice-director-zack-snyder

Interview starts at 2:27

Thanks. That was cool.

 

[Da-Scribe]

To be fair, he never said it was gonna be Batman scoop.

Very true. But he did say it was huge breaking news. That combined with the Batman reference, of course people are gonna connect the dots that way. At any rate, I was expecting to be disappointed with whatever got dropped for the sake of managing expectations. Glad I did.

 

[Tobias]

He teased superhero movie news and mentioned 'Batman' would be interested in it ... and his story is someone is writing a new Zorro movie.

Oh. So the connection is the mask? Why Batman would be interested?

A Batman solo announcement is soon IMO. After the first weekend of BvS's release. He likely knows this and is using it to get fans going.

 

[roach]

You first mistake was giving Umberto attention

 

[fake]

A 15 minute long interview with Zack Snyder: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hall_o...superman-dawn-of-justice-director-zack-snyder

Interview starts at 2:27

Some notes:

- The movie is 99.9% complete. They are fine tuning the remaining, it has been shown internally (most likely test screenings) and now will be shown to the public. The worldwide tour will begin soon
- Justice League is being prepped
- It is a continuation of the MoS storyline, but you don't need to have seen MoS to get this movie. Zack was ready for the reaction to MoS, both positive and negative, he considers himself a comic book fan and wants to default to that canon
- Nolan's Batman is a closed storyline and it didn't make sense to stuff Superman in that world. That will remain its own thing.
- The story focuses mainly on Batman and Superman. The other Justice League characters play a very small role, mainly we get whispers that they exist (apart from one woman). This movie just begins the conversation that these guys are out there
- Zack has complete respect for the TV side of the universe, but he considers that DC has a multiverse. The characters are so iconic and will survive beyond the actors who play them and the creators who work on them. The TV Universe and the Movie Universe will exist concurrently but differently

 

[Urich Leeds]

He teased superhero movie news and mentioned 'Batman' would be interested in it ... and his story is someone is writing a new Zorro movie.

He never said it was superhero movie news. Just that Batman would like it. And he would, all things considered.

 

[Monochron]

Oh. So the connection is the mask? Why Batman would be interested?

A Batman solo announcement is soon IMO. After the first weekend of BvS's release. He likely knows this and is using it to get fans going.

Batman is a Zorro fan.

 

[rogbngp]

Wow... I love it. I love grappling with these issues honestly. I love the fairy tale aspect of super hero stories. But I love taking the responsibilities, pressures and conundrums Superman is forced to reckon with in a way that is serious and asks questions of what ramifications could arise from his mere existence. The morality of Superman, both intellectually, what's been established through creators and editorial fiat over decades is actually NOT some simplistic child like moral view that actually gets more obtuse the more you try to justify it in light of the character's actual history.

Look... I grew as a child in Reagan's America. We had in the country a an overweening pride in our strength militarily and our own moral righteousness. So you start asking, as a child with all the innocence and ignorance that a child has, why if we are so great and good that there are places in the world with such terrible leadership allowing or enacting on it's populations so much suffering. Why don't we just send our forces to kick ass, free people and set the world to right? (Any of you coming of age during this new century... Any of this sound familiar?)

As a sober minded adult who can take a long view, with some perspective and a little gained wisdom, that view seems so very childish and naïve to me now. It's based off of a limited understanding of human nature and history. One thing that changed my thoughts on this was exploring the Superman mythos.

What better stand in for the nation of the U.S. than Superman, right? And what I learned was that Superman does allow a lot of horrible things to happen not because he is immoral or ethically lacking, but because he IS moral and the responsibility on his shoulders means he cannot approach everything as if it were a simple case of punching out a bad guy or giving an inspirational and high minded speech appealing to our better angels. From setting himself up a as ultimate arbiter, to stunting the drive to excel in mankind to simply not seeing unintended consequences and beyond, Superman has a lot on his plate that he has to balance in trying to do the right thing (which, actually if we are grappling with morals in our lives we all are doing though on a scale that is far smaller than Superman's of course) as he sees it. It in fact, despite what others would prefer to think, SIMPLE, or SIMPLEMINDED. For all the smiles and good humor, if you truly are taking the character seriously, then he also MUST have an inner life which understands and accepts his own limitations on his influence on the planet and which indeed must be saddened at the terrible things he has to allow for the sake of issues greater to the whole of humanity than even individual lives often. This I like to think, spurs him on to be better and better at trying to thread the moral needles that are before him, that once he became an adult he's put great thought into.

Now, that is of course the ideal from the eternally in his thirties Superman of the printed page. For an adaptation to film the process of how such a character and his views come about has to be illustrated through a limited amount of a film's runtime, and the need for drama and conflict, better rounding of characters in general, all shape how he is going to come across on screen, and I am very happy that what we are seeing, since MOS really in my opinion, is a good grip on reckoning with the character as person with a real inner life and struggles, and the prequel comics point to BvS continuing this.

Really great observation here, Krypton, that if Superman is viewed as representing America's noblest, most cherished ideals (and beyond that the best in humanity), then the real world is a very, very difficult place in which to actually operate and actualize all of that. For example, the U.S. made what appeared to be horrible moral choices during the Cold War (backing thug military dictators in the Third World). But really... would it truly have been better for those countries to have sided with the brutally totalitarian (fascist) regime that was the U.S.S.R.? In such a case there is no good outcome, just the lesser of two really bad ones.

And I think to a great extent we face similar difficulties in just how to both effectively but morally combat jihadist terrorism today.

The world this Superman (or you could also say the U.S., if the Superman myth represents "truth, justice, and the American Way," or the highest principles and ideals of western democratic society) inhabits is like our real one. It isn't as easy and simple as it once was just exactly how to be the good guy now.

I think Batman represents the darker side of the American psyche where we see covert intelligence and the military doing nasty work required to fight the forces of evil.

BvS will have these two core archetypes in the cultural identity collide, but ultimately they will have to be brought together in order to unite this divided self.

There's going to be a lot going on in this movie, I think! I mean, I think at least that the film will lend itself readily to intelligibly and cogently reading this sort of meaning in, if it is what one wants to get from the experience. In addition to being an epic and thrilling dramatic story.

 

[Da-Scribe]

He never said it was superhero movie news. Just that Batman would like it. And he would, all things considered.

Nah he definitely said it was superhero news.

 

[brandeezy89]

To be fair, he never said it was gonna be Batman scoop.

The problem is that he announced it like it was something major then throws in Batman....

"OMG GUYS HUGE BREAKING SUPERHERO NEWS COMINGGGGGGG!!!!"

"BATMAN IS GONNA LOVE THIS NEWS OMG!!!!"








"ZORRO HAS A NEW DIRECTOR AND WRITERRRRRRR"

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Oh. So the connection is the mask? Why Batman would be interested?

A Batman solo announcement is soon IMO. After the first weekend of BvS's release. He likely knows this and is using it to get fans going.

Really? You... You don't understand the long established connection Zorro and Batman have?