And you thought the crap marvel have been spouting so far was bad

to be honest though this event has been marketed more at non comic fans, so I think that's why he's taken this attitude about it. The reality is without the people buying monthlies no book would ever make it to trade.

It's like shaking an egg repeeatedly, and then saying "it's alright I'll treat it like royalty when it hatches". You're still gonna end up with a spacky chicken at the end of the day.
 
Jokes on him. I don't know about anyone else, but the only trades I pick up are the ones I was young enough to miss the first time around like Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Sandman or those I'm seriously behind on like Y: The Last Man.
 
It seems to be indicative of the medium as a whole, considering there are fans that will defend the right of the writers and artists to not do their jobs.

In any other business, if you don't show up to work, they replace you. If you have a grievous illness, there is perhaps sympathy and vacation pay and your job still waiting for you when you get back...but someone else still does it in the meantime.

And if a client isn't happy, heads roll.

For some reason, comics are treated as exempt to all of these very real world rules and some even think that the company has a right to flat out insult their clients (ala Hitch).

If any business, be it automotive, newspaper, construction, etc., was to be run like Marvel or DC, they would have gone under long ago.

The only answer really is in the Indies (don't like Ford? you can go to Chevy, Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc. Don't like Marvel or DC? You got Image and Darkhorse...with some Devil's Due and 2000 AD if you really want to seek them out).
 
Excellent points but toyota are pretty much on the same level as ford these days :p

Oh and don't forget virgin, their stuffs been pretty high quality so far and despite being a totally new publisher their hasn't been a single hitch with release dates
 
Wolverazio said:
It seems to be indicative of the medium as a whole, considering there are fans that will defend the right of the writers and artists to not do their jobs.

In any other business, if you don't show up to work, they replace you. If you have a grievous illness, there is perhaps sympathy and vacation pay and your job still waiting for you when you get back...but someone else still does it in the meantime.

And if a client isn't happy, heads roll.

For some reason, comics are treated as exempt to all of these very real world rules and some even think that the company has a right to flat out insult their clients (ala Hitch).

If any business, be it automotive, newspaper, construction, etc., was to be run like Marvel or DC, they would have gone under long ago.

The only answer really is in the Indies (don't like Ford? you can go to Chevy, Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc. Don't like Marvel or DC? You got Image and Darkhorse...with some Devil's Due and 2000 AD if you really want to seek them out).
Some might be tempted to argue that penciling isn't "any other business," it's art, and artists are usually free to take however long they need to come up with a piece. But those people would be wrong. Comics are commercial art, just like advertising or graphic design, and if you don't meet your deadlines in those industries, you're damn right they'll fire you. That's exactly why I'm starting to get tired of Marvel's relentless bull****. They judge the success of their comics by the almighty dollar, but when delays pop up, they play the art card. "Would you rather have a crappy product that's on time, or a work of art that's late?" The publishers want to have their cake and eat it too, eagerly pursuing money as a business but hiding behind the idea that they're putting out art and that creativity is the most important part of the equation. That particular double-talk is starting to get to me.
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
Some might be tempted to argue that penciling isn't "any other business," it's art, and artists are usually free to take however long they need to come up with a piece. But those people would be wrong. Comics are commercial art, just like advertising or graphic design, and if you don't meet your deadlines in those industries, you're damn right they'll fire you. That's exactly why I'm starting to get tired of Marvel's relentless bull****. They judge the success of their comics by the almighty dollar, but when delays pop up, they play the art card. "Would you rather have a crappy product that's on time, or a work of art that's late?" The publishers want to have their cake and eat it too, eagerly pursuing money as a business but hiding behind the idea that they're putting out art and that creativity is the most important part of the equation. That particular double-talk is starting to get to me.


I agree 100%. Like ive said before, they have this attitude as if theyre doing us the favor by delaying the comic.
 
Doc Destruction said:
Exactly. Are they expecting people to THANK them for this???

No but they're hoping at least people will understand why it happens.

Unlikely so it would seem.
 
Out of curiosity whose business/place of employment runs perfectly smoothly all of the time?

I have had 3 jobs in my life so far.
1. In a supermarket
2. A paint company
3. For an insurance company

And none have been these hyper efficent companies that sack people arbitrarily for delays you lot seem to work for. I have been amazed (particuarly as I'm a buisness major, in the middle of my second degree) at the service standards of these companies I've worked for (not in a position to effect things I add).

Number 3 sticks in my mind at one point we were told we could only offer people a turnaround time of 4 weeks (eventualy months after I'd left this was brought down to 2 days so i'm sure you can imagine the job customers felt at the 4 week time that was being offered (and accepted with lots of swearing I add) for the year I worked with them).

I just find it unlikely that everyone here works for a company that is perfect.

(nb this is not to justify the lateness, just at least stop this holier than though posturing some posts are taking (not all though))
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
Some might be tempted to argue that penciling isn't "any other business," it's art, and artists are usually free to take however long they need to come up with a piece. But those people would be wrong. Comics are commercial art, just like advertising or graphic design, and if you don't meet your deadlines in those industries, you're damn right they'll fire you.


You could argue the movie industry is commercial art and that plagued with delays and such like. Ditto video games.

This is not a comic specific thing.
 
Yeah, and? I'm annoyed when those things are bumped off schedule, too. The difference is that they're putting out one solitary product at a time that has to stand and deliver revenue for months or years at a time, so lateness is excused even more in those areas, provided it doesn't start costing the backers too much money. But if people are doing their jobs right, every commercial art industry should be able to stick to the schedules they create.
 
gildea said:
Out of curiosity whose business/place of employment runs perfectly smoothly all of the time?

I have had 3 jobs in my life so far.
1. In a supermarket
2. A paint company
3. For an insurance company

And none have been these hyper efficent companies that sack people arbitrarily for delays you lot seem to work for. I have been amazed (particuarly as I'm a buisness major, in the middle of my second degree) at the service standards of these companies I've worked for (not in a position to effect things I add).

Number 3 sticks in my mind at one point we were told we could only offer people a turnaround time of 4 weeks (eventualy months after I'd left this was brought down to 2 days so i'm sure you can imagine the job customers felt at the 4 week time that was being offered (and accepted with lots of swearing I add) for the year I worked with them).

I just find it unlikely that everyone here works for a company that is perfect.

(nb this is not to justify the lateness, just at least stop this holier than though posturing some posts are taking (not all though))


When you worked at the insurance company and a customer complained did you tell him to go lose his virginity, but lolz it was just a joke.
 
gildea said:
Out of curiosity whose business/place of employment runs perfectly smoothly all of the time?

I have had 3 jobs in my life so far.
1. In a supermarket
2. A paint company
3. For an insurance company

And none have been these hyper efficent companies that sack people arbitrarily for delays you lot seem to work for. I have been amazed (particuarly as I'm a buisness major, in the middle of my second degree) at the service standards of these companies I've worked for (not in a position to effect things I add).

Number 3 sticks in my mind at one point we were told we could only offer people a turnaround time of 4 weeks (eventualy months after I'd left this was brought down to 2 days so i'm sure you can imagine the job customers felt at the 4 week time that was being offered (and accepted with lots of swearing I add) for the year I worked with them).

I just find it unlikely that everyone here works for a company that is perfect.

(nb this is not to justify the lateness, just at least stop this holier than though posturing some posts are taking (not all though))

Were you allowed to insult clients that were upset that a 4 week turnaround time was the best you could do?

Or, no matter how irate the customer became, were you expected to calmly explain it to them? (or maybe you didn't have to deal with customers, also understandable)

I work as an examiner of titles (in real estate) and we have a 6 hour turnaround time to maintain. Do we always hit it? No. But we bust our ass to do it and if the client complains, not one of us could insult them or we would be fired.

That's the thing. Most of us don't care about the delays anymore (though this isn't the first time it's happened with these people involved, so that also removes the "arbitrarily" of your hypothetical) it's the fact that when people were upset (and comic shops who are losing not just Civil War but ongoings for a month, which, as I asked my own comic guy last night [who is more DC and independent and is not phased] WILL affect their money) one of the staff members of Marvel saw fit to openly insult anyone who was upset.

That's what's wrong. When you f up, you take accountability for it (and since Hitch wasn't involved, he should have kept his fat trap shut), you don't insult the people who do pay your wages.
 
Ok, here's one for you, With regards the fans were *****ing at him so he has the right to have a go at them.

I work in business to business sales. Half the time people don't want to talk to me when I cold call them. I get called every name under the sun and some of the filth these people come out with you would not believe. However, every time I get an insult I simply bite my tongue and try to talk them down. Sometimes I have gotten my best jobs for the company with someone who started out insulting me. I always remain polite and level headed because I understand that at the end of the day I AM WORKING FOR THEM, NOT THEM FOR ME.

Look at it this way. If I turn round and call someone an arse for having a go at me, next thing I know I've prevented my company from doing any more business with this contact. Then it goes deeper, he will tell say 5-6 friends about what arsewholes my company are. Suddenly they won't do business with us. And they tell a few friends, etc (I'm sure you've seen waynes world! :P) The point is if you work in a business serving customers, you are at all times representing your company. By this logic you could argue that to some extent people like Hitch are the public face of marvel. Miller and Mcniven did the right thing by calming down and trying to appease the fans concerns. Hitch just gave marvel a bad name
 
They're a comic book company with a very vocal fanbase. Marvel has always tried to convey themselves as more than just a business. A place where they openly talk to their readers.

And with the whiny wankers that frequent this message board and hundreds more like it make it hard for these writers and artists to keep a straight face.

There are a lot bigger things in the world to go and cry about. Like a war in Iraq or our messed up economy. But that takes a back seat because 'Civil War' got delayed.

Maybe there should be a Fanboy registration act, upon signing you are no longer allowed to whine like a little girl about late books. All those who don't sign get their keyboards taken away and are left with their virginity for the rest of their lives.
 
Is this a global politics board no, Is this a stop the war in iraq campaign...no

It's a ****ing comics message board...what exactly shold we be whining about on a COMICS message board.

Dumbass
 
Purple Man said:
They're a comic book company with a very vocal fanbase. Marvel has always tried to convey themselves as more than just a business. A place where they openly talk to their readers.

And with the whiny wankers that frequent this message board and hundreds more like it make it hard for these writers and artists to keep a straight face.

There are a lot bigger things in the world to go and cry about. Like a war in Iraq or our messed up economy. But that takes a back seat because 'Civil War' got delayed.

Maybe there should be a Fanboy registration act, upon signing you are no longer allowed to whine like a little girl about late books. All those who don't sign get their keyboards taken away and are left with their virginity for the rest of their lives.


These extreme analogies people keep throwing are so utterly ridiculous, that the people who post them should automatically lose 5 IQ points.
 
Purple Man said:
They're a comic book company with a very vocal fanbase. Marvel has always tried to convey themselves as more than just a business. A place where they openly talk to their readers.


But they are a ****ing business, theyre not giving out these comics for free.

Purple Man said:
And with the whiny wankers that frequent this message board and hundreds more like it make it hard for these writers and artists to keep a straight face.

Where ive worked ive heard some of the stupidest complaints on earth, but you nkow what, I have to suck it up, keep a straight face and listen to them and apologize for their inconvinience or help them out. Thats how ****ing businesses work.

Purple Man said:
There are a lot bigger things in the world to go and cry about. Like a war in Iraq or our messed up economy. But that takes a back seat because 'Civil War' got delayed.

I already touched upon this.

Purple Man said:
Maybe there should be a Fanboy registration act, upon signing you are no longer allowed to whine like a little girl about late books. All those who don't sign get their keyboards taken away and are left with their virginity for the rest of their lives.

Live true to your word, because god forbid you complain about anything, then youre a whiny *****. Really, ive read some ridiculous posts in my day, but this one takes the cake. When a movie starts late you paid $11 for, dont complain, youre a whiny fanboy if you do. If you're food is cold at the restaurant youre dropping benjamins on, dont complain youre a whiny fanboy. ****ing ridiculous.
 
Purple Man said:
They're a comic book company with a very vocal fanbase. Marvel has always tried to convey themselves as more than just a business. A place where they openly talk to their readers.

And with the whiny wankers that frequent this message board and hundreds more like it make it hard for these writers and artists to keep a straight face.

There are a lot bigger things in the world to go and cry about. Like a war in Iraq or our messed up economy. But that takes a back seat because 'Civil War' got delayed.

Maybe there should be a Fanboy registration act, upon signing you are no longer allowed to whine like a little girl about late books. All those who don't sign get their keyboards taken away and are left with their virginity for the rest of their lives.

I wanna play too daddy!

"There are a lot bigger things to cry about than other people complaining about something. Like terrorism in other countries (America's not the only one on the planet with it boyo) or a messed up culture where people aren't held accountable for their actions.

Maybe there should be a Fanboy-in-denial registration act, where you are hunted down if you are a fanboy for the writers instead of a fanboy for the comics and defend their right to....not do their job instead of making complaints about the lateness or quality of their work and if you don't sign...you get fired...out of a cannon into the sun."

And I didn't think we really had to cover this, but I guess there's no accounting for common sense. I'm not saying the people who insulted Millar and Mcniven were right. In fact, I know Darth and I both have said we don't care about the delay anymore because while it was annoying and not handled well...what's done is done (I think hippy and others have too, but not looking to speak for anyone).

But two wrongs don't make a right. Just because a client insults you doesn't mean you get to insult them back. Especially since the fans weren't talking about Hitch.

And a few pages back someone made an excellent point as far as your ludicrous "there are more important things in the world." When I come here, I come here to talk about comics. In my everyday life, I regularly try to reach people and make them see flaws in the government, oil industry, social preconceptions, etc.

So heaven forbid I want to just come and talk about comics or, when someone does something stupid, ***** about comics a little.

So tell me, why aren't you out there protesting the war or supporting it, or trying to fix the economy instead of replying to us boyo?

And just to really stick it in your craw...I've actually gotten laid while reading comics. So why don't you go find Hitch and you two can complain about those "unfair fanboys and their expecting that we actually do our jobs and meet deadlines like the rest of the world has to."


/rant
 
While reading comics?:eek: Not sure on the physics on that one, were you reading it together whiel she's bent over a desk or what?
 
hippy fascist said:
While reading comics?:eek: Not sure on the physics on that one, were you reading it together whiel she's bent over a desk or what?

"You know the test? You just say 'jump on top honey, you do what you like.'"

I've said too much.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"