Animals Are Not Ours To Wear

[Atrax robustus]

methinks she is against the shearing process, which (so I've heard) does not even harm the sheep.

It doesnt, actually its beneficial to the sheep.

My friend is a sheep shearer, he actually went to New Zealand for a year to work.

 

[Sarge]

It doesnt, actually its beneficial to the sheep.

My friend is a sheep shearer, he actually went to New Zealand for a year to work.

You mean sheep shearing makes you money? Holy crap I think I've found a job

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Ever heard of the Trinity? It's more then just a hot chick in those Matrix movies...

And to respond to your first point, my religion says it's okay to eat animals. Yours may not (I assume you're a Buddhist, then?). To try to say I should not eat animals, however, is to try to force your religious beliefs on me. Last time I checked, that was wrong...

Oh, and "my God" is the God of the majority of people in this country. After all, Jews, Muslims, and Christians all believe in the same God... And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Buddhists believe that there's no God, just enlightenment? Looks like "my God" is the God of most of the planet...

I don't adhere to any religion. Period. But I believe in some sort of Infinite Intelligence on a purely rationnal basis.

My response was intended to counter your "point" that because the Bible says that human beings have been given authority by "God" over all of the animals of the Earth, that it was somehow WRONG, perhaps even SINFUL, to be a vegetarian or vegan who doesn't wear leather or fur. YOU were the one who brought up this religious nonsense into a conservation about fundamental animal rights and abhorrent human cruelty.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

wrong. history begins when you are born, and ends when you are dead. how does something exist if you don't anymore?

Our conciousness is all that truly exists. Matter is merely an illusion, an involuntary projection of our subconcious mind. Matter is the feeling of being limited. When we die, or in other words, when the illusion of our physical body can no longer resist the undeniable truth of the imaginary and temporary nature of the physical universe, our conciousness no longer feels limited, and expands, slowly and gradually, until it becomes one with the infinity of the universe. And our conciousness itself is merely the distinction of the inherent duality of all things, the distinction between wanting to remain separate from the rest of the universe, and simultaneously wanting to become one with the rest of the universe. Our apparent natural aging process is a representation of our life-long resistance towards the outside world, of our will to remain a separate individual with a personality of its own, and our death is merely the rest of the universe winning the battle over our ego, the perpetual battle between our selfishness and our selflessness.

 

[Strange]

Our conciousness is all that truly exists. Matter is merely an illusion, an involuntary projection of our subconcious mind. Matter is the feeling of being limited. When we die, or in other words, when the illusion of our physical body can no longer resist the undeniable truth of the imaginary and temporary nature of the physical universe, our conciousness no longer feels limited, and expands, slowly and gradually, until it becomes one with the infinity of the universe. And our conciousness itself is merely the distinction of the inherent duality of all things, the distinction between wanting to remain separate from the rest of the universe, and simultaneously wanting to become one with the rest of the universe. Our apparent natural aging process is a representation of our life-long resistance towards the outside world, of our will to remain a separate individual with a personality of its own, and our death is merely the rest of the universe winning the battle over our ego, the perpetual battle between our selfishness and our selflessness.

Our conciousness is only a bunch of electrical impulses held together by our brain, once our brain is dead our conciousness can no longer exist. Unless you believe that it is encoded in our soul and that would be a different theory all together.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

With all due respect that is a belief based on nothing but what someone told someone else thousands of years ago. It is here say and nothing more.

^See my post above.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Our conciousness is only a bunch of electrical impulses held together by our brain, once our brain is dead our conciousness can no longer exist. Unless you believe that it is encoded in our soul and that would be a different theory all together.

You are assuming that your physical body and that the rest of the physical universe actually exist. If everything that we experience is nothing more than the subjective interpretation of electrical impulses, then isn't it logical to conclude that all of reality itself solely exists as a part of our conciousness?

 

[TheSumOfGod]

theories are like ***holes.. everybody's got one

(myself included, of course. theories & otherwise)

No, actually, theories ARE like a**holes, MINE is more important than YOURS!

 

[Wiseman]

No, actually, theories ARE like a**holes, MINE is more important than YOURS!

Are you a male prostitute?

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Are you a male prostitute?

I was making a joke. Why is your avatar the picture of a bunny spreading his cheeks?

 

[Wiseman]

I was making a joke. Why is your avatar the picture of a bunny spreading his cheeks?

Cause I think it's funny, it's from another thread

 

[Zev]

I don't adhere to any religion. Period. But I believe in some sort of Infinite Intelligence on a purely rationnal basis.

My response was intended to counter your "point" that because the Bible says that human beings have been given authority by "God" over all of the animals of the Earth, that it was somehow WRONG, perhaps even SINFUL, to be a vegetarian or vegan who doesn't wear leather or fur. YOU were the one who brought up this religious nonsense into a conservation about fundamental animal rights and abhorrent human cruelty.

When did I say that it was WRONG to be vegan? Point that out to me. I was just saying that I believe God gave man authority to eat and wear animals, in contrast to the PETA types who openingly say that it is WRONG and SINFUL to eat or wear animals.

Oh, and I think we've already established how many people believe "this religious nonsense", so simmer down the hate, okay?

 

[Zev]

I am a student of the world, and I find value in every religion.

You see, that just sounds wishy-washy to me.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

It's not hate, it's simply distaste for those who believe that they hold the absolute truth when in reality all that they're holding is ink, paper and mythology.

 

[Zev]

It's not hate, it's simply distaste for those who believe that they hold the absolute truth when in reality all that they're holding is ink, paper and mythology.

So in other words, you think anyone that believes in the supernatural is an idiot and thus not as smart as you?

 

[the defenders]

When did I say that it was WRONG to be vegan? Point that out to me. I was just saying that I believe God gave man authority to eat and wear animals, in contrast to the PETA types who openingly say that it is WRONG and SINFUL to eat or wear animals.

Oh, and I think we've already established how many people believe "this religious nonsense", so simmer down the hate, okay?

Wrong and sinful eh? You can search this thread and I've said numerous times that I don't think it's wrong that you eat meat. I've said I disagree with it. But I do not think it's wrong.

What most the people in this thread won't listen to is the numerous times I've said meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans need to work together to reform slaughterhouses. I think most meat eaters don't like that animals are inhumanely treated by slaughterhouses. If you think that animal torture is okay, than you don't deserve to be called a human. There are much more humane ways to slaughter animals. I'd much rather work with meat eaters and make slaughterhouses more humane than have some holier-than-thou attitude and get absolutely nothing done.

If you care about animals and still want to eat meat, please make it free range. That's all I ask. And just in favor of animal and human rights, limit your fast food consumption. Those corporations are the f***ing lowest of the low on morality and ethics.

 

[Sarge]

Wrong and sinful eh? You can search this thread and I've said numerous times that I don't think it's wrong that you eat meat. I've said I disagree with it. But I do not think it's wrong.

What most the people in this thread won't listen to is the numerous times I've said meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans need to work together to reform slaughterhouses. I think most meat eaters don't like that animals are inhumanely treated by slaughterhouses. If you think that animal torture is okay, than you don't deserve to be called a human. There are much more humane ways to slaughter animals. I'd much rather work with meat eaters and make slaughterhouses more humane than have some holier-than-thou attitude and get absolutely nothing done.

If you care about animals and still want to eat meat, please make it free range. That's all I ask. And just in favor of animal and human rights, limit your fast food consumption. Those corporations are the f***ing lowest of the low on morality and ethics.

Note:This is coming from a meat eater.

While I'd really hope for an alternative, is there really a way to humanely slaughter something?

 

[Wiseman]

Wrong and sinful eh? You can search this thread and I've said numerous times that I don't think it's wrong that you eat meat. I've said I disagree with it. But I do not think it's wrong.

What most the people in this thread won't listen to is the numerous times I've said meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans need to work together to reform slaughterhouses. I think most meat eaters don't like that animals are inhumanely treated by slaughterhouses. If you think that animal torture is okay, than you don't deserve to be called a human. There are much more humane ways to slaughter animals. I'd much rather work with meat eaters and make slaughterhouses more humane than have some holier-than-thou attitude and get absolutely nothing done.

If you care about animals and still want to eat meat, please make it free range. That's all I ask. And just in favor of animal and human rights, limit your fast food consumption. Those corporations are the f***ing lowest of the low on morality and ethics.

I agree with you, the problem with this thread is that it was started by a dipsh1t that thought he was better than everyone else.

 

[the defenders]

Note:This is coming from a meat eater.

While I'd really hope for an alternative, is there really a way to humanely slaughter something?

Well, there are more humane ways than they use today.

 

[Venice]

Whats wrong with wool? The sheep isnt killed for its wool.

Well for starters..

Inside the Wool Industry

It may come from a sheep, goat, or Tibetan antelope. It may be called wool, mohair, pashmina, shahtoosh, or cashmere. But no matter what it's called, any kind of wool causes harm to the animals from whom it is taken.

Many people believe that shearing sheep helps animals who might otherwise be burdened with too much wool. But without human interference, sheep grow just enough wool to protect themselves from temperature extremes. The fleece provides effective insulation against both cold and heat. Wool was once obtained by plucking it from the sheep during molting seasons. Breeding for continuous fleece growth began after the invention of shears.

Wool-Producing Countries Abuse Sheep
With more than 100 million sheep, Australia produces 30 percent of all wool used worldwide. Flocks usually consist of thousands of sheep, making individual attention to their needs impossible.

In Australia, the most commonly raised sheep are Merinos, specifically bred to have wrinkly skin, which means more wool per animal. This unnatural overload of wool causes animals to die of heat exhaustion during hot months, and the wrinkles also collect urine and moisture. Attracted to the moisture, flies lay eggs in the folds of skin, and the hatched maggots can eat the sheep alive. To prevent flystrike, Australian ranchers perform a barbaric operation mulesing or carving huge strips of flesh off the backs of unanesthetized lambs legs and around their tails. This is done to cause smooth, scarred skin that wont harbor fly eggs, yet the bloody wounds often get flystrike before they heal.

Within weeks of birth, lambs ears are hole-punched, their tails are chopped off, and the males are castrated without anesthetics. Male lambs are castrated when between 2 and 8 weeks old, with a rubber ring used to cut off blood supply one of the most painful methods of castration possible. Every year, hundreds of lambs die before the age of 8 weeks from exposure or starvation, and mature sheep die every year from disease, lack of shelter, and neglect. Faced with so much death and disease, the rational solution would be to reduce the number of sheep so as to maintain them decently. Instead, sheep are bred to bear more lambs to offset the deaths.

Shearing Is Painful
Sheep are sheared each spring, after lambing, just before some breeds would naturally shed their winter coats. Timing is considered critical: Shearing too late means loss of wool. In the rush, many sheep die from exposure after premature shearing.

Shearers are usually paid by volume, not by the hour, which encourages fast work without regard for the welfare of the sheep. Says one eyewitness: The shearing shed must be one of the worst places in the world for cruelty to animals I have seen shearers punch sheep with their shears or their fists until the sheeps nose bled. I have seen sheep with half their faces shorn off.

Live Exports
When sheep age and their wool production declines, they are sold for slaughter. This results in the cruel live export of 6.5 million sheep every year from Australia to the Middle East and North Africa, and nearly 800,000 sheep are exported from the U.K. for slaughter abroad.

In Europe, tightly packed animals are subjected to long-distance trips, sometimes 50 hours long, without food or water. Their final destination is frequently a country with minimal slaughter regulations, where the animals often regain consciousness while being dismembered. In 2001, activists persuaded the European Parliament to adopt a report calling for journeys of a maximum of eight hours in livestock export, the first step toward creating a law.

In Australia, sheep travel vast distances over land until they reach the feedlots where they are held before being loaded onto ships. Many sheep, stressed, ill, or wounded from the journey and faced with intensive crowding, disease, and strange food, die in the holding pens.

The surviving sheep are packed tightly into ships. Younger animals or babies born en route are often trampled to death. Shipboard mortality ranges up to 10 percent, and for every sheep who dies, many others become ill or are injured. For example, 14,500 sheep reportedly died from heat stress while in transit to the Middle East in 2002. Their carcasses were thrown overboard.

In the Muslim nations of North Africa and the Middle East, ritual slaughter is exempt from humane slaughter regulations. Some sheep are slaughtered en masse in lots, others are taken home, often in the trunks of cars, and slaughtered by the purchasers.
​

 

[Venice]

I would post the pictures of mulesing but Farmer Joe said this is a family site.

 

[Atrax robustus]

Well for starters..

Inside the Wool Industry

It may come from a sheep, goat, or Tibetan antelope. It may be called wool, mohair, pashmina, shahtoosh, or cashmere. But no matter what it's called, any kind of wool causes harm to the animals from whom it is taken.

Many people believe that shearing sheep helps animals who might otherwise be burdened with too much wool. But without human interference, sheep grow just enough wool to protect themselves from temperature extremes. The fleece provides effective insulation against both cold and heat. Wool was once obtained by plucking it from the sheep during molting seasons. Breeding for continuous fleece growth began after the invention of shears.

Wool-Producing Countries Abuse Sheep
With more than 100 million sheep, Australia produces 30 percent of all wool used worldwide. Flocks usually consist of thousands of sheep, making individual attention to their needs impossible.

In Australia, the most commonly raised sheep are Merinos, specifically bred to have wrinkly skin, which means more wool per animal. This unnatural overload of wool causes animals to die of heat exhaustion during hot months, and the wrinkles also collect urine and moisture. Attracted to the moisture, flies lay eggs in the folds of skin, and the hatched maggots can eat the sheep alive. To prevent flystrike, Australian ranchers perform a barbaric operation mulesing or carving huge strips of flesh off the backs of unanesthetized lambs legs and around their tails. This is done to cause smooth, scarred skin that wont harbor fly eggs, yet the bloody wounds often get flystrike before they heal.

Within weeks of birth, lambs ears are hole-punched, their tails are chopped off, and the males are castrated without anesthetics. Male lambs are castrated when between 2 and 8 weeks old, with a rubber ring used to cut off blood supply one of the most painful methods of castration possible. Every year, hundreds of lambs die before the age of 8 weeks from exposure or starvation, and mature sheep die every year from disease, lack of shelter, and neglect. Faced with so much death and disease, the rational solution would be to reduce the number of sheep so as to maintain them decently. Instead, sheep are bred to bear more lambs to offset the deaths.

Shearing Is Painful
Sheep are sheared each spring, after lambing, just before some breeds would naturally shed their winter coats. Timing is considered critical: Shearing too late means loss of wool. In the rush, many sheep die from exposure after premature shearing.

Shearers are usually paid by volume, not by the hour, which encourages fast work without regard for the welfare of the sheep. Says one eyewitness: The shearing shed must be one of the worst places in the world for cruelty to animals I have seen shearers punch sheep with their shears or their fists until the sheeps nose bled. I have seen sheep with half their faces shorn off.

Live Exports
When sheep age and their wool production declines, they are sold for slaughter. This results in the cruel live export of 6.5 million sheep every year from Australia to the Middle East and North Africa, and nearly 800,000 sheep are exported from the U.K. for slaughter abroad.

In Europe, tightly packed animals are subjected to long-distance trips, sometimes 50 hours long, without food or water. Their final destination is frequently a country with minimal slaughter regulations, where the animals often regain consciousness while being dismembered. In 2001, activists persuaded the European Parliament to adopt a report calling for journeys of a maximum of eight hours in livestock export, the first step toward creating a law.

In Australia, sheep travel vast distances over land until they reach the feedlots where they are held before being loaded onto ships. Many sheep, stressed, ill, or wounded from the journey and faced with intensive crowding, disease, and strange food, die in the holding pens.

The surviving sheep are packed tightly into ships. Younger animals or babies born en route are often trampled to death. Shipboard mortality ranges up to 10 percent, and for every sheep who dies, many others become ill or are injured. For example, 14,500 sheep reportedly died from heat stress while in transit to the Middle East in 2002. Their carcasses were thrown overboard.

In the Muslim nations of North Africa and the Middle East, ritual slaughter is exempt from humane slaughter regulations. Some sheep are slaughtered en masse in lots, others are taken home, often in the trunks of cars, and slaughtered by the purchasers.
​

Some fair points.... but if shearing is done correctly there is no pain for the animal and I can see no harm.

The shipping and cramped conditions are another debate entirely.

I see no problem with wool, if the sheep are treated correctly.
If they are not, then its another matter entirely.

 

[the defenders]

Some fair points.... but if shearing is done correctly there is no pain for the animal and I can see no harm.

The shipping and cramped conditions are another debate entirely.

I see no problem with wool, if the sheep are treated correctly.
If they are not, then its another matter entirely.

If sheep aren't just farmed for wool and aren't harmed in the shearing, I too see no problem with it. I have a wool coat. Not that I bought it from a store that gave money to wool companies. I got it from a thrift shop. I guess I'm bad now.

 

[Strange]

You are assuming that your physical body and that the rest of the physical universe actually exist. If everything that we experience is nothing more than the subjective interpretation of electrical impulses, then isn't it logical to conclude that all of reality itself solely exists as a part of our conciousness?

It would be "all reality" as we know it from our own conciousness and it would be different with each different person. Each person see's the world differently based on there life and their experiences, so one person's reality would not be the same as yours or mine due to our different set of electrical impulses.

 

[Venice]

If sheep aren't just farmed for wool and aren't harmed in the shearing, I too see no problem with it. I have a wool coat. Not that I bought it from a store that gave money to wool companies. I got it from a thrift shop. I guess I'm bad now.

Did you read what I just posted?