The Dark Knight Rises Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

[OutRiddled]

And the role she was given and executed was more realistic and true to what selina kyle is.

Not in the slightest.. she was actually degraded a lot - for instance; using guns, being Bane's pawn, betraying Batman, beating up a cripple, pretending to be a damsel in distress so she could get away... all of these things aren't Catwoman/Selina Kyle.

Michelle Pfieffer's Catwoman was a badass female fighter. Even the 60s Catwomen were more of a badass than Hathaway. Hathaway made Catwoman look weak.

 

[The Joker]

Not in the slightest.. she was actually degraded a lot - for instance; using guns

being Bane's pawn

She was nobody's pawn. She stole some fingerprints for them to get her hands on the clean slate device.

As if you've never heard of Catwoman doing jobs for favors in the comics.

betraying Batman

A staple trait of the character. Batman's been burned by Catwoman so many times in the comics.

beating up a cripple

She kicked his cane out from under him. He was hardly beaten up.

pretending to be a damsel in distress so she could get away

You what? Catwoman is a master actress of deception. From her very first appearance where she was pretending to be a weak old lady.

all of these things aren't Catwoman/Selina Kyle.

 

[regwec]

To be fair, the whole point of the scene where she shot Sionis was that it was meant to be exceptional. Had her execution of Bane had the same dramatic weight behind it, people might have been less critical of his mundane demise.

 

[The Batman]

Ledger's performance did much more to change minds, however. Speaking personally, Hathaway converted me from indifference to indifference.

I like Hathaway's Selina, but most of the raving about her Catwoman seems to be from fan circles. Above all, people walked out of TDKR talking about Bane.

On the other hand, Penguin is supposed to be the main villain of Batman Returns, but people walked out talking about Catwoman. I think in the eyes of the general audience, Michelle will still hold the crown.

EDIT: Pfeiffer fan explained this perfectly a few pages ago...

 

[The Joker]

To be fair, the whole point of the scene where she shot Sionis was that it was meant to be exceptional. Had her execution of Bane had the same dramatic weight behind it, people might have been less critical of his mundane demise.

I wasn't trying to defend Bane's terrible demise by showing that scan. I was just proving OutRiddled wrong on the Selina using guns argument.

 

[OutRiddled]

So I can point out instances in the comics of Joker being an artist and chasing after a woman, yet you dismiss them. Then you go and pull out a rare instance of Catwoman using a gun in the comics. t:

I would be more forgiving except that she is always using her gun in TDKR. It's like Two-Face carrying a sword.

She was nobody's pawn. She stole some fingerprints for them to get her hands on the clean slate device.

And she helped Bane by luring Batman into a trap.

As if you've never heard of Catwoman doing jobs for favors in the comics.

It was done better in Batman Returns, when she made an alliance with the Penguin. In TDKR, she helped Bane lure Batman into a trap and was clearly afraid of Bane.

A staple trait of the character. Batman's been burned by Catwoman so many times in the comics.

She BETRAYED him. Then he is like "You betrayed me and left me to die, I think I'll marry you".

She kicked his cane out from under him. He was hardly beaten up.

Hardly a fight. Nothing like in Batman Returns, at least.

You what? Catwoman is a master actress of deception. From her very first appearance where she was pretending to be a weak old lady.

She's a master of disguise. I never knew her to play like a damsel in distress. It doesn't sound so bad on paper, but when I saw it, it was just annoying.

Catwoman was such an annoying ***** in this movie.

 

[regwec]

I wasn't trying to defend Bane's terrible demise by showing that scan. I was just proving OutRiddled wrong on the Selina using guns argument.

I understand, but my point is that the circumstances were exceptional. You can find a picture of Batman using a gun without too much difficulty, but everyone knows that 'Batman doesn't use guns'. A rare breach of a rule doesn't vitiate the rule itself.

 

[The Joker]

So I can point out instances in the comics of Joker being an artist and chasing after a woman, yet you dismiss them. Then you go and pull out a rare instance of Catwoman using a gun in the comics.

You pointed out one instance of each of those from some campy comics. This is a dark recent rendition of the character, and not the first time Catwoman has used a gun either.

That's the difference.

I would be more forgiving except that she is always using her gun in TDKR. It's like Two-Face carrying a sword.

Catwoman used a hand gun ONCE in TDKR and that was on the roof against Bane's men, before Batman knocked it out of her hands. Unless you're being pedantic about Selina using a handgun:

But then we could get pedantic about her using a taser, too, to kill someone like in Batman Returns.

It was done better in Batman Returns, when she made an alliance with the Penguin. In TDKR, she helped Bane lure Batman into a trap and was clearly afraid of Bane.

In Batman Returns she was psychotic.

In TDKR she was a sane master thief who was watching her own back. Just like the comics.

She BETRAYED him.

Just like she has MANY times in the comics. What's your problem with this? It's standard Catwoman fare.

]Then he is like "You betrayed me and left me to die, I think I'll marry you".

As opposed to "You beat me up, blew up a department store, and teamed up with the Penguin to help frame me for murder. Now I'm going to rip my mask off and reveal my identity to Max Schreck and ask you to move in with me"

t:

Selina in TDKR proved her trustworthy nature by saving Batman's life and then helping him save all of Gotham when she could have just taken that clean slate and left Gotham.

Hardly a fight. Nothing like in Batman Returns, at least.

I didn't call it a fight! God almighty, you're the one who said she beat him up, now you're criticizing me for something you said lol.

She's a master of disguise. I never knew her to play like a damsel in distress. It doesn't sound so bad on paper, but when I saw it, it was just annoying.

The issue isn't whether you found it annoying. That's irrelevant. You claimed it's against type for Selina to deceive by acting like she's someone she's not.

I understand, but my point is that the circumstances were exceptional. You can find a picture of Batman using a gun without too much difficulty, but everyone knows that 'Batman doesn't use guns'. A rare breach of a rule doesn't vitiate the rule itself.

Actually reg it's not that hard to find examples where she used guns:

 

[regwec]

No, it isn't for either her or Batman. But 'they don't use guns'. It's not their 'thing'. There is no problem with Hathaway's Selina using a gun per se, except that she doesn't use a lot of the other stuff that is integral to Catwoman to off-set it.

 

[regwec]

By the way, I just want to say that I own Catwoman nos 1-5, including no 4 above. You got real T&A in comics back then.

 

[DACrowe]

She kills people in the comics, including with guns. She does it in the movie. Complaining about it in the film is grasping at straws.

 

[regwec]

I wasn't complaining and, no, it isn't 'grasping at straws'.

 

[milost]

People keep saying "oh dat crazy Returns Catwoman
, she mad", well I'm not sure what is canon with the comics, but judging by half of these panels, the character doesn't seem very sane. :lol

 

[Schrute]

I don't really get all the Hathaway love tbh. If it's because her character is more like the character in the comics, then I get that. But Pfeiffer is just so damn entertaining. Even till this day, when I watch the film I can't get over how entertaining and twisted her character is.

I don't think the same will be said for Hathaway, not because she is bad, just because I don't think there was really anything great they gave her character for her to chew on as an actress.

Hathaway's Catwoman turn back to help Batman was predictable...I don't think many people thought Pfeiffer's Catwoman would still kill Shrek and leave Batman.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

People keep saying "oh dat crazy Returns Catwoman
, she mad", well I'm not sure what is canon with the comics, but judging by half of these panels, the character doesn't seem very sane. :lol

Very true...

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It's like Two-Face carrying a sword.

Sounds awesome. Contrasting colors on both sides I take it.

 

[regwec]

He would have an elegant rapier in one hand and a rusty machete in the other.

 

[OutRiddled]

You pointed out one instance of each of those from some campy comics. This is a dark recent rendition of the character, and not the first time Catwoman has used a gun either.

That's the difference.



Catwoman used a hand gun ONCE in TDKR and that was on the roof against Bane's men, before Batman knocked it out of her hands. Unless you're being pedantic about Selina using a handgun:

Oh, c'mon, she never even used a gun.

Hathaway was shooting people in the bar scene too. And she killed Bane with the batpod cannon.

How many chicks with guns/clad in black leather kicking ass have we seen in movies? Generic.

But then we could get pedantic about her using a taser, too, to kill someone like in Batman Returns.

I never said she shouldn't kill people.

In Batman Returns she was psychotic.

In TDKR she was a sane master thief who was watching her own back. Just like the comics.

Only in the comics you've been reading.

Just like she has MANY times in the comics. What's your problem with this? It's standard Catwoman fare.

I think you're confusing betrayal with deception. If she was an ally of Batman, why would she betray him? Doesn't make sense. I know of instances where she pretended to be Batman's friend, but was deceiving him all along. The 1966 movie, for example.

As opposed to "You beat me up, blew up a department store, and teamed up with the Penguin to help frame me for murder. Now I'm going to rip my mask off and reveal my identity to Max Schreck and ask you to move in with me"

t:

Well that's because she didn't know Batman was Bruce Wayne.. and she fell for Bruce Wayne.

Selina in TDKR proved her trustworthy nature by saving Batman's life and then helping him save all of Gotham when she could have just taken that clean slate and left Gotham.

I still thought her ending up with him at the end was laughable and cheesy.. and not like anything in the comics. Yeah, I know they apparently had sex in one comic and she had Batman's child in another. But them sitting together in a cafe is just weird to me.

I didn't call it a fight! God almighty, you're the one who said she beat him up, now you're criticizing me for something you said lol.

I mean that Batman should have whooped her ass like in Batman Returns.

The issue isn't whether you found it annoying. That's irrelevant. You claimed it's against type for Selina to deceive by acting like she's someone she's not.

No. Read my above reply where I address this.

I don't really get all the Hathaway love tbh. If it's because her character is more like the character in the comics, then I get that. But Pfeiffer is just so damn entertaining. Even till this day, when I watch the film I can't get over how entertaining and twisted her character is.

I don't think the same will be said for Hathaway, not because she is bad, just because I don't think there was really anything great they gave her character for her to chew on as an actress.

Hathaway's Catwoman turn back to help Batman was predictable...I don't think many people thought Pfeiffer's Catwoman would still kill Shrek and leave Batman.

That's more the Catwoman I know. She wouldn't end up with Batman.

And Nolan's Catwoman only has some fidelity to the comics, just enough to appease rabid fanboys, but not enough for those who want the real spirit of Catwoman on screen. Tiny details don't matter.

Very true...

Those eyes..

As far as looks goes, Pfieffer pwns Hathaway.

Sounds awesome. Contrasting colors on both sides I take it.

Might as well make Two-Face a ninja. t:

 

[The Techno Bat]

Anne Hathaway

 

[regwec]

I just want to remark on how well Michelle is doing: given that BR is over twenty years old and TDKR was last year, having well over a third of the vote is a massive endorsement for her.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't really get all the Hathaway love tbh. If it's because her character is more like the character in the comics, then I get that. But Pfeiffer is just so damn entertaining. Even till this day, when I watch the film I can't get over how entertaining and twisted her character is.

I don't think the same will be said for Hathaway, not because she is bad, just because I don't think there was really anything great they gave her character for her to chew on as an actress.

Hathaway's Catwoman turn back to help Batman was predictable...I don't think many people thought Pfeiffer's Catwoman would still kill Shrek and leave Batman.

On that last part, I think most could predict it. She is driven by her sexist boss who pushed her out a window. Of course she was going to get revenge and leaving Bruce just completes the feminist allegory for the 1990s career woman that Burton was going for.

All the rest is opinion and you're welcome to it.

Albeit, I do not think most casual moviegoers watch Batman Returns. It is watched by Batman fans and Burton enthusiasts, but it is a bit too weird and out-there. For the GA it will likely remain the 1989 film and The Dark Knight as the only well-remembered and revisited Batman movies. I could see Rises maybe as well, but that is iffy because while Bane is great, he is no Joker.

Just a thought.

 

[DACrowe]

And Nolan's Catwoman only has some fidelity to the comics, just enough to appease rabid fanboys, but not enough for those who want the real spirit of Catwoman on screen. Tiny details don't matter.

That is a funny statement as the only thing Pffeifer has, in terms of the "spirit" of the character, is tiny details. A full mask, claws and the whip. Hathaway is written, like Nolan's Joker or Two-Face, in a toned down but very faithful and respectful way in the film. She pretty much is the comic book character except without those "tiny details" that Pffeifer had.

I like Pffeifer fine and I can see why would prefer her. However, she had absolutely none of the spirit of the comic book character and is essentially a Tim Burton creation that happens to share the same name as the character from the comics.

 

[kvz5]

I like Hathaway's Selina, but most of the raving about her Catwoman seems to be from fan circles. Above all, people walked out of TDKR talking about Bane.

I have no horse in this race but I gotta disagree with this. My impression from the reactions and reviews from critics and regular people is that Hathaway's Catwoman had more people talking (particularly when it comes to praises) than Bane. Heck, it's even arguable that John Blake (who I personally couldn't care less about BTW) got more praise and attention from the critics than Bane. Out of the new additions, Catwoman was definitely the one that got the most praise and attention. Even the critics who hated the movie were praising her.

Having said that, personally, Catwoman was not the only thing I liked in TDKR whereas in BR, Pfeiffer's Catwoman was the only thing I liked.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Frankly the only thing that Michelle's character was lacking in terms of ''spirit'' was being a kleptomaniac.

If there was just one more scene in Returns with Catwoman stealing some jewels from the fat cats in Gotham... only to sebsequently be chased across the rooftops with Batman, then it would be perfect.

Not to mention, Nolan manipulated the character just as much as Burton to fit her into his vision. Again, apart from the thief angle I didn't feel one ounce of comic book ''spirit'' up on the screen in TDKR.

Not that comic book spirit matters much anyway.

 

[regwec]

That is a funny statement as the only thing Pffeifer has, in terms of the "spirit" of the character, is tiny details. A full mask, claws and the whip. Hathaway is written, like Nolan's Joker or Two-Face, in a toned down but very faithful and respectful way in the film. She pretty much is the comic book character except without those "tiny details" that Pffeifer had.

I like Pffeifer fine and I can see why would prefer her. However, she had absolutely none of the spirit of the comic book character and is essentially a Tim Burton creation that happens to share the same name as the character from the comics.

If you have read any comics written prior to Frank Miller's era, you would find this comment unsupportable.

As I have said before, both are equally (un)faithful; Michelle's is amped up, Hathaway's is dulled down.