Another overhaul for DCEU

[Batgirl0202]

Meh. Just give us more good movies and TV shows.

WB/DC has access to a huge library of compelling characters. It doesn't have to be complicated.

Continue adapting interesting characters in director-driven projects. Have characters pop up in each other's films/series when it makes sense. And every once in awhile do big, epic, ensemble spectacles.

I personally think the DCEU has had more hits than misses so far. We already have an MCU. A different approach keeps things fresh and provides a variety of viewing options for us fans.

 

[FunkMiller]

The most frustrating thing about the way WB have handled DC for the last ten years is that they had their perfect, functioning, successful and popular model right there to be used as a template for future productions.

It was called The Dark Knight trilogy.

The only reason they have screwed the pooch is because they chased Marvel's shared universe philosophy. A philosophy that I'll remind everyone has only been a success for Marvel.

If WB hadn't been run by greedy cowards who just wanted to copy the other guy, we could have had a full Man Of Steel trilogy, a Wonder Woman trilogy, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Flash etc. etc.

 

[Erzengel]

The most frustrating thing about the way WB have handled DC for the last ten years is that they had their perfect, functioning, successful and popular model right there to be used as a template for future productions.

It was called The Dark Knight trilogy.

The only reason they have screwed the pooch is because they chased Marvel's shared universe philosophy. A philosophy that I'll remind everyone has only been a success for Marvel.

If WB hadn't been run by greedy cowards who just wanted to copy the other guy, we could have had a full Man Of Steel trilogy, a Wonder Woman trilogy, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Flash etc. etc.

One issue is quality is based on the capability of the director. The other issue is even with a successful trilogy after trilogy across multiple IPs, you'd be left well, what happens now. You are stuck with this self contained movie trilogies where you have numerous team up through comics, tv, animated etc.

 

[Mandon Knight]

For me, just re-instate what exists of what was built by Snyder, and inter-weave with building the Justice League, (plenty of room for more, and all that)..... the big IF for me, would be, if I was Zack, would you want to, given how you were treated previously.

 

[metaphysician]

I think part of the reason none of this works for WB is that, ironically, while they have definitely tried to pursue and copy what Marvel Studios did, they never really *understood* what Marvel Studios did. I mean, think back all the way to Iron Man. For all that the "Cinematic Universe" gets emphasized as some grand all-encompassing system, what did it consist of at the start? A few easter egg references, and a stinger where Samuel L Jackson implies that there are other superheroes and maybe they will team up. Its a really, *really* small part of the movie, and mostly consists of what the movie chooses *not* to do- specifically, Iron Man *doesn't* foreclose on options. Unlike so many other superhero movies, it doesn't hinge itself on being unprecedented.

That's really all anyone needs to do: make one good movie at a time, and just make sure that the writer doesn't write out the possibility of other superheroes and weirdness. If you use that as your standard practice, then big flashy teamup movies or small guest appearances can come relatively easy, because people will *want* to see the characters they liked appear again, in big ways and small.

 

[Erzengel]

That's really all anyone needs to do: make one good movie at a time, and just make sure that the writer doesn't write out the possibility of other superheroes and weirdness. If you use that as your standard practice, then big flashy teamup movies or small guest appearances can come relatively easy, because people will *want* to see the characters they liked appear again, in big ways and small.

That requires supervision and I don't think WB is set that way.

 

[Frodo]

The most frustrating thing about the way WB have handled DC for the last ten years is that they had their perfect, functioning, successful and popular model right there to be used as a template for future productions.

It was called The Dark Knight trilogy.

The only reason they have screwed the pooch is because they chased Marvel's shared universe philosophy. A philosophy that I'll remind everyone has only been a success for Marvel.

If WB hadn't been run by greedy cowards who just wanted to copy the other guy, we could have had a full Man Of Steel trilogy, a Wonder Woman trilogy, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Flash etc. etc.

That's why, I think, they need to focus on making good films and exploiting as much of their catalog as they can, as opposed to chasing the desire to create a Marvel Style shared universe.

That's a fan dream at this point as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe far into the future, with a new creative team, they can start from scratch try to create a united cinematic universe.

But at this point, they truly need to focus on just producing good films without trying to make sure that , "The Batman connects to a rebooted Superman, and that a future Green Lantern film connects to a future Green Arrow film, etc".

Just focus on good films made by people who have reverence for the source material ,and tell stories with characters that connects with the GA and fans alike.

I know that's not an option a segment of fandom likes, but I think that's the most viable at this point with the cards they have now.

 

[-Arya-]

My suggestion to WB is to just keep going and make good movies wherever you can. Even train wrecks can be salvaged like with Suicide Squad.

 

[The Guard]

I think part of the reason none of this works for WB is that, ironically, while they have definitely tried to pursue and copy what Marvel Studios did, they never really *understood* what Marvel Studios did. I mean, think back all the way to Iron Man. For all that the "Cinematic Universe" gets emphasized as some grand all-encompassing system, what did it consist of at the start? A few easter egg references, and a stinger where Samuel L Jackson implies that there are other superheroes and maybe they will team up. Its a really, *really* small part of the movie, and mostly consists of what the movie chooses *not* to do- specifically, Iron Man *doesn't* foreclose on options. Unlike so many other superhero movies, it doesn't hinge itself on being unprecedented.

That's really all anyone needs to do: make one good movie at a time, and just make sure that the writer doesn't write out the possibility of other superheroes and weirdness. If you use that as your standard practice, then big flashy teamup movies or small guest appearances can come relatively easy, because people will *want* to see the characters they liked appear again, in big ways and small.

They didn't copy it at all. They did almost the opposite thing Marvel Studios did.

 

[Marvolo]

Reposting what I put in another thread
8. 2022: Discovery's David Zaslav Poised to Take Reins of WarnerMedia - Variety

9. 2022: Discovery Pledges Cost Discipline After WarnerMedia Deal Close - Variety

And all of those are just the top level stuff. They promised to revitalize Superman before in the early 2010s and look what happened.
Will be very happy if proven wrong as I want DC Comics to get their proper due in live action. But I can't get my hopes up again. Pretty much for as long as I've been on this site it's been a yo-yo for when it comes to changes with WB affecting DC films.

Sounds like the situation Marvel Studios and Feige were dealing with when Perlmutter was CEO of Marvel Entertainment. He was notorious for penny pinching and putting profits before anything else.

 

[Juan1193]

The most frustrating thing about the way WB have handled DC for the last ten years is that they had their perfect, functioning, successful and popular model right there to be used as a template for future productions.

It was called The Dark Knight trilogy.

The only reason they have screwed the pooch is because they chased Marvel's shared universe philosophy. A philosophy that I'll remind everyone has only been a success for Marvel.

If WB hadn't been run by greedy cowards who just wanted to copy the other guy, we could have had a full Man Of Steel trilogy, a Wonder Woman trilogy, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Flash etc. etc.

Hard disagree. Shared universe is the way to go and what fans expect from DC. Individual, non connected films have a ceiling in terms of success, as seen by The Batman, while with a shared universe (a successful one) the sky is the limit. Don’t get why some fans are so adamant about keeping DC characters separate, as if the shared universe is the reason DC is in the state that it is. Lol A bad movie is a bad movie

 

[Mani-Man]

We are past the point were we need to "choose".

We can have both, a working shared universe and stand alone stuff.
Its not a just one or the other scenario.

Of course its more work to get a shared universe off the ground, making solo movies that stand on their own is less limiting and all...but its not impossible.

It all comes down to the right people in power making it happen, but in terms of the idea and all, its the way to go imo.

 

[Flint Marko]

They didn't copy it at all. They did almost the opposite thing Marvel Studios did.

Creating a shared universe is not the opposite of creating a shared universe. They said they weren't going to do what Marvel was doing right up until the Avengers made a billion dollars.

 

[Babillygunn]

Hard disagree. Shared universe is the way to go and what fans expect from DC. Individual, non connected films have a ceiling in terms of success, as seen by The Batman, while with a shared universe (a successful one) the sky is the limit. Don’t get why some fans are so adamant about keeping DC characters separate, as if the shared universe is the reason DC is in the state that it is. Lol A bad movie is a bad movie

I think that by all objective and subjective accounts, The Batman is a critical and financial smash hit, especially for a first film in a reboot trilogy released during the tail end of a pandemic. I guess No Way Home outperformed it, but that film is the third in an established trilogy with a character who had appeared in five previous films and also had a huge nostalgia factor playing into it because it brought in Maguire and Garfield as well. So there was no stopping that movie. The fact that it made more than The Batman isn’t really unexpected, surprising or in any way a knock on The Batman. The film was a successful

 

[-Arya-]

The Batman did well financially. There is no ceiling with standalone movies unless we all expect upwards of 1.5 Billion in grosses WW, which is a ridiculous expectation.

 

[metaphysician]

That requires supervision and I don't think WB is set that way.

If you can't even do that minimal level of supervision, than you are screwed anyway. It should be *much* easier, and require much less attention and effort, to ensure that minimal level of editorial control, than all the other things that you *should* be doing to ensure basic *quality* control.

 

[Erzengel]

If you can't even do that minimal level of supervision, than you are screwed anyway. It should be *much* easier, and require much less attention and effort, to ensure that minimal level of editorial control, than all the other things that you *should* be doing to ensure basic *quality* control.

I think of Fox and 2 Calibans in Apocalypse and in Logan and wonder how did that happen but the answer is, there isn't supervision. I think it's the same way at WB. The main thing I think about with WB is "you can't use that character because we want to do a series/movie" etc.

 

[metaphysician]

Sounds like the situation Marvel Studios and Feige were dealing with when Perlmutter was CEO of Marvel Entertainment. He was notorious for penny pinching and putting profits before anything else.

I don't know, the DCEU films pretty consistently cost about 25% more than equivalent Marvel movies. They probably could use at least *some* penny pinching, if it were reasonably intelligent. If nothing else, knowing that you have a hard cap on how much reshoots you can afford might ( might! ) encourage producers and directors to spend a lot more time and effort on the script level.

 

[metaphysician]

The Batman did well financially. There is no ceiling with standalone movies unless we all expect upwards of 1.5 Billion in grosses WW, which is a ridiculous expectation.

I think the correct answer here actually *is* "ridiculous expectations". Which is to say, a lot of people have them, based on the idea that "Of course Batman is the most popular most successful character ever who should always achieve on the greatest box office winnings". It leads to people ignoring the fact that we are still suffering from a pandemic and its after-effects, and that The Batman is a new reboot following a prior failed incarnation of Batman ( and *yes*, the Affleck Batman was *absolutely* a failed incarnation ), and that the movie is going to free streaming very quickly after release. All those factors constitute real headwind, and despite them The Batman still broke 750M worldwide. It should be seen as a great success. . . but it isn't, because too many people feel entitled to not just success but victory. And Spider-man just pulled in more than twice what Batman did.

 

[metaphysician]

I think of Fox and 2 Calibans in Apocalypse and in Logan and wonder how did that happen but the answer is, there isn't supervision. I think it's the same way at WB. The main thing I think about with WB is "you can't use that character because we want to do a series/movie" etc.

This is what I call "evidence for my thesis", vis a vis what happens when you don't put any effort into supervision. After all, not only were the Fox movies direly incompatible, but they also were widely varying in quality and often flat out crap. WB, that is your fate too, should you not actually start caring.

 

[-Arya-]

I think the correct answer here actually *is* "ridiculous expectations". Which is to say, a lot of people have them, based on the idea that "Of course Batman is the most popular most successful character ever who should always achieve on the greatest box office winnings". It leads to people ignoring the fact that we are still suffering from a pandemic and its after-effects, and that The Batman is a new reboot following a prior failed incarnation of Batman ( and *yes*, the Affleck Batman was *absolutely* a failed incarnation ), and that the movie is going to free streaming very quickly after release. All those factors constitute real headwind, and despite them The Batman still broke 750M worldwide. It should be seen as a great success. . . but it isn't, because too many people feel entitled to not just success but victory. And Spider-man just pulled in more than twice what Batman did.

Compared to other Batman movies, only 2 have grossed over a billion and both were sequels. No way Home was also a sequel. People just aren’t looking into the details anymore.

 

[The Guard]

Creating a shared universe is not the opposite of creating a shared universe. They said they weren't going to do what Marvel was doing right up until the Avengers made a billion dollars.

No, but the way they did it certainly was. They essentially said that they were considering a shared universe, but not starting one with MAN OF STEEL. And if you follow the Snyder saga at all, there's some pretty significant antecdotal evidence that a shared universe, or at least interconnected films with several heroes interacting with each other, was the plan for some time.

It's a moot point, because they didn't do what Marvel was doing from a business standpoint. Like, at all. Their movies featured a completely different story approach, tone, and even the general approach to bring the heroes together in a shared universe was almost the opposite approach Marvel took.

Only in the most generic sense in that their flagship characters interacted with each other, which is what most viewers/fans wanted in the first place, did WB "copy" Marvel.

In which case you can argue that Marvel copied, say, TV's Batman and The Green Hornet crossover, Legends of the Superheroes (DC characters), several of the Incredible Hulk specials, and on film, the Godzilla monsters and Universal Monsters series, Alien V Predator, Freddy VS Jason...

 

[Flint Marko]

In which case you can argue that Marvel copied, say, TV's Batman and The Green Hornet crossover, Legends of the Superheroes (DC characters), several of the Incredible Hulk specials, and on film, the Godzilla monsters and Universal Monsters series, Alien V Predator, Freddy VS Jason...

I mean, sure? No one said Marvel invented the idea of a crossover, just that in this instance one company saw their competitor's success and switched gears to emulate it.

It’s nothing new to business and nothing new to the Marvel/DC dynamic either. Thanos followed Darkseid, Lobo followed Wolverine, etc.

 

[Lily Adler]

Remember when Green Lantern was supposed to launch the DCEU?

 

[Juan1193]

Seems Zaslav is intent on focusing on the shared universe (DCEU) as the Arrowverse is essentially dead (Flash on its final season, two cancelled shows with more to come). Wouldn’t be surprised to see Doom Patrol, Titans, Stargirl, Penyworth and SM&L all cancelled after their upcoming season as well. DCEU and Reevesverse seems to be the direction they’re heading in and the latter will only run for a short while (3 films and a few spin-offs)