Answering script questions: DO NOT OPEN UNLESS YOU WANT TO SPOIL THE WHOLE MOVIE

You're wrong. These movies are based on comic books but most are much more grounded in reality than the books as far as the World the characters are in. They take these characters and put them in a real world environment because it sells better that way and certain things just don't translate well from paper to the big screen. The plot has to make sense to a much larger audience than those that read the comics. Especially with films like Hulk, X-Men, etc...Of course you suspend disbelief about the characters and their powers, but the story and the rest of the characters should react as if they're in the real world. For instance if The Hulk and Abomination were fighting it out in downtown NY and buildings are falling, cars are being thrown 100 yards, etc...Someone is highly likely to be injured and or killed if they get in the way. Raimi did this with Spider-Man by added the organic webshooters as part of the character so the suspension of disbelief had a boundry with him. If he made up those mechanical shooters it just wouldn't work well in a live action film.

All this realism they're putting into these movies is going a little too far IMO. I don't think any innocent people should ever die as a result of the hero's actions, in a comic book or in a movie.

Tarnished Hulk? Oh for God's sake get a grip. It's a movie...enjoy it for what it is.

I can't enjoy it if it's not faithful to the comic.
 
Exactly. 99.999999% of the people don't read scripts, don't visit this board, and don't give a crap as long as it's a good film and it gives them what they expect. That's who this film is geared towards.

I've seen this argument used to defend various efforts wherein decisions were taken that took the film too far away from it's source material. "The film is geared towards the general audience" (or words to that effect), so the defence would have us believe. That's why they are doing things this way or that.

Well...while I don't doubt that you sincerely think that is what they are doing I do personally think you are mistaken to think this serves as a blanket justification for everything they wind up changing.

Yes, some changes are required for purely practical reasons. For instance a plot in the books that took years to develop cant be handled to the letter in around 2 hours.
But other than practical issues any change from the source material is (imo) made for just two main reasons. 1) Embarassment for the source: Those making the decisions look at something like (for example) Galactus. They think he looks silly and cant be done (and has some people here rather shamefully agree) and lacking the imagination to make him work gives us a nasty looking character free cloud instead.

and 2) Ego. A film has producers, writers, director and actors, all creative people, many of whom will have no great affinity for the books, all wanting to put something into the film of their own, something they can say was their idea. Cant say I blame them for that, they are all artists in one form or another and no one who can paint for themselves likes to simply paint by numbers. But... I do wish they would just stop sometimes and accept some things Stan Lee did simply do not need changing. A speaking Hulk with a mind of his own is one. A Hulk who does not kill is another.

If someone doesn't like it then maybe someday and angry fanboy can come up with 180 million dollars and make the film he wants and watch all of his money vanish.
Ahh...here we go. That old chestnut. The "you cant do no better" argument.

Well, I should think not...but then, none of us are getting paid huge $$$$ to do so. I also find the clear inferrence that a film geared towards the fans automatically equates to a flop rather annoying. More embarrassment for the source perhaps...

Another thought on this point...there's a fair few of these films 'geared to the general audience' that haven't exactly succeeded in that regard either.
As mentioned above, Galactus the cloud. Not a great crowd pleaser that one... Likewise with Corporate Electro Doom, Absorbing Jellyfish Daddy Banner, ..the list of balls dropped in the name of the "general audience" goes on.

Hell the only one that should be outraged is Marvel and the people who spent months of their lives sweating over this film only to have someone that was trusted with the script leak it online.

Have to be honest here. Cant say I feel much sympathy for people in a high reward job that they also love doing, maybe getting the hump over an old script being leaked. We should all get to sweat so much.

And besides...If that leaked script has really been changed so significantly then no harm, no foul, right?
And since "99.999999% of the people don't read scripts, don't visit this board" there's not much for them to get in flap over regardless.
 
All this realism they're putting into these movies is going a little too far IMO. I don't think any innocent people should ever die as a result of the hero's actions, in a comic book or in a movie.



I can't enjoy it if it's not faithful to the comic.
I'm not targeting you, so don't take this personal. These are the types of posts that I'm taking about. Lets be real for a moment, but understand this point: You don't like when heroic guys kill. So.....I guess Rambo was wrong, the guys in 300 were wrong (I'm sorry, did you watch that?), Conan was, Punisher, Wolverine, Ghostrider, shall I continue? Oh, I forget Bruce Lee, Indiana Jones and Luke Skywalker. So should those guys just say shame on you for trying to kill me and run. Oh snap! James Bond. People die dude. Good vs Evil. Whats the point on making a movie if you can't kill the bad guys. Hold on a second .....Abomb was once a man! Hulk has got to KILL HIM!!!! I got it people, cover your eyes when the part comes on.
 
I have the one discussed online but I've already promised the person who gave it to me that I would not forward it to anyone, and I won't read it till after the movie is out so can't tell you about it. I got the Thor one too. :oldrazz:

Does anyone else have it? I really don't understand this game you people play. How would you feel if I had the script and you didn't? Pretty ****ty. So help me out like I would help you out.

On a side note, someone sent me something about having a Transformers 2 treatment... how legit is this? I didn't think there was one yet. Oh and if anyone could hook me up with Thor I would appreciate it too.
 
All this realism they're putting into these movies is going a little too far IMO. I don't think any innocent people should ever die as a result of the hero's actions, in a comic book or in a movie.



I can't enjoy it if it's not faithful to the comic.

That's not realistic and it would be an insult to the audience in certain circumstances.
 
This really says a lot. :cmad:

:oldrazz: In one way I agree with you... people have a right to be dissapointed. But in another way I agree with AD that people tend to go too far... just because Spider-man, wasn't Spider-man, didn't send me into a pit of rage even when I loved the Character. I still went to all 3 movies, and surprisingly really love the first even though I find Parkers characterizations different. Not to mention people LOVE Spider-man, and BB even though... you know, the directors took plenty of "liberties."

Really they are just movies at the end of the day. Our favorite stories are still on paper, we still know them, and still love them.

So no matter how many times Hollywood screws up for what one of us doesn't like... we still have those stories, even if these film versions dissapoint us.
 
I've been dissapointed many times but the two films I was anticipating the most...let me down bigtime. Actually 3 films really dissapointed me: Planet of the Apes, War of the Worlds, and King Kong. I'm all for remakes but all 3 of these sucked for me. King Kong was just loaded with too much crappy filler, War of the Worlds was trash, and Planet of the Apes was just horrible. I was looking forward to these remakes for decades figuring someday they'd update the stories for the new generations.

I was never outraged though. LOL
 
I'm not targeting you, so don't take this personal. These are the types of posts that I'm taking about. Lets be real for a moment, but understand this point: You don't like when heroic guys kill. So.....I guess Rambo was wrong, the guys in 300 were wrong (I'm sorry, did you watch that?), Conan was, Punisher, Wolverine, Ghostrider, shall I continue? Oh, I forget Bruce Lee, Indiana Jones and Luke Skywalker. So should those guys just say shame on you for trying to kill me and run. Oh snap! James Bond. People die dude. Good vs Evil. Whats the point on making a movie if you can't kill the bad guys. Hold on a second .....Abomb was once a man! Hulk has got to KILL HIM!!!! I got it people, cover your eyes when the part comes on.

Read what I said again.
 
:oldrazz: In one way I agree with you... people have a right to be dissapointed. But in another way I agree with AD that people tend to go too far...

I was referring to AD and his asinine statements. The fans made these movies possible. If he has the gall to say idiotic statements like "who cares about the outraged fans...they need to get a life." and "Too bad. This is a movie not a comic book." tells a lot about that person and I have lost all respect for him. It seems to me that when people forget where they came from they forget how they got where they are. The fans of the character made these movies possible. AD would just as soon forget the fans, step all over what they respect (because it wouldn't work) and update everything to please the masses and to make a buck. If he'd stop and think for a second, before opening his trap he'd realize that this isn't what Marvel would want him running around saying. Marvels in the business of making money. They know where their bread is buttered and I'm sure they'd disagree with AD and his moronic statements.

Edit:just to make it clear. I understand that not all fans wish will be granted and not all fans will be pleased. It’s reasonable to expect some changes. Like someone pointed to a painter doesn’t want to do a paint by numbers. Changes will be made, like it or not, but telling the fans, “to bad, it’s not your movie.” is asinine to me. Instead of reasoning or considering their point of view they say Tuff. Don’t like it make your own movie.
 
I was referring to AD and his asinine statements. The fans made these movies possible. If he has the gall to say idiotic statements like "who cares about the outraged fans...they need to get a life." and "Too bad. This is a movie not a comic book." tells a lot about that person and I have lost all respect for him. It seems to me that when people forget where they came from they forget how they got where they are. The fans of the character made these movies possible. AD would just as soon forget the fans, step all over what they respect (because it wouldn't work) and update everything to please the masses and to make a buck. If he'd stop and think for a second, before opening his trap he'd realize that this isn't what Marvel would want him running around saying. Marvels in the business of making money. They know where their bread is buttered and I'm sure they'd disagree with AD and his moronic statements.
Hey CJ, I agree that the movie was made possible by the fans, but to what length does a writer, director, etc. go to please the fan? IMO, the movie is targeted also to the "general movie goer" who really has no historical background knowledge of "our green guy". That being said, I feel IMO that they will go to great lengths to entertain first and still try to appease the hardcore fans of the Hulk while making this movie. Please remember, that at the end of the day this is just another movie. Also, it is being done by a long time fan of the Hulk which means he (Ed) will indeed try and bring out all the elements of the Hulk. Has anyone stopped to think that if Norton did a rewrite, how much was his and how much is Penn's? It could've been Penn having Hulk kill and not Norton. Maybe that is one element that is being tweaked as well as his dialogue. Just a thought.
 
I was referring to AD and his asinine statements. The fans made these movies possible. If he has the gall to say idiotic statements like "who cares about the outraged fans...they need to get a life." and "Too bad. This is a movie not a comic book." tells a lot about that person and I have lost all respect for him. It seems to me that when people forget where they came from they forget how they got where they are. The fans of the character made these movies possible. AD would just as soon forget the fans, step all over what they respect (because it wouldn't work) and update everything to please the masses and to make a buck. If he'd stop and think for a second, before opening his trap he'd realize that this isn't what Marvel would want him running around saying. Marvels in the business of making money. They know where their bread is buttered and I'm sure they'd disagree with AD and his moronic statements.

Edit:just to make it clear. I understand that not all fans wish will be granted and not all fans will be pleased. It’s reasonable to expect some changes. Like someone pointed to a painter doesn’t want to do a paint by numbers. Changes will be made, like it or not, but telling the fans, “to bad, it’s not your movie.” is asinine to me. Instead of reasoning or considering their point of view they say Tuff. Don’t like it make your own movie.

I never said who cares about the fans. I said who cares about the "outraged" fans. All 3 of them. They can all crawl in a hole and dissapear to be quite honest. If someone is "outraged" over a script that they shouldn't even have in their possession to begin with it's pretty pathetic. Yeah harsh I know. :whatever:

Now if they made the Hulk Blue, made Banner gay, and make his origin that he got his powers from falling into a vat of toxic waste...then I could understand being outraged. You don't know the final outcome of this film till you see it.
 
Hey CJ, I agree that the movie was made possible by the fans, but to what length does a writer, director, etc. go to please the fan? IMO, the movie is targeted also to the "general movie goer" who really has no historical background knowledge of "our green guy". That being said, I feel IMO that they will go to great lengths to entertain first and still try to appease the hardcore fans of the Hulk while making this movie. Please remember, it is just that at the end of the day this is just another movie. Also, it is being done by a long time fan of the Hulk which means he (Ed) will indeed try and bring out all the elements of the Hulk. Has anyone stopped to think that if Norton did a rewrite, how much was his and how much is Penn's? It could've been Penn having Hulk kill and not Norton. Maybe that is one element that is being tweaked as well as his dialogue. Just a thought.

I was editing while you wrote this EB. I understand what you're saying and agree. I just think AD overstepped his bounds. Like I said in another post, I'm done arguing about talking or killing. What will be will be. But when someone is voicing their opinion and they get the cold slap in the face of "Who cares what you think" kinda irks me.
 
I never said who cares about the fans. I said who cares about the "outraged" fans. All 3 of them. They can all crawl in a hole and dissapear to be quite honest. If someone is "outraged" over a script that they shouldn't even have in their possession to begin with it's pretty pathetic. Yeah harsh I know. :whatever:

See what I mean EB.

You're the one who said "outraged". Fans were disussing things you obviously have no idea about when you gave your opinion. You can take your opinions and crawl into a hole as well I think.
 
Damnit EB get in that hole now! ;)

Regarding the original film I can totally understand (after seeing the film) that some people were greatly dissapointed and expected something else. I love it but that's just me. Blade Trinity was a total letdown...but was I outraged? No because it's just a movie.

CJ there is nothing to get "outraged" about.
 
Damnit EB get in that hole now! ;)

Regarding the original film I can totally understand (after seeing the film) that some people were greatly dissapointed and expected something else. I love it but that's just me. Blade Trinity was a total letdown...but was I outraged? No because it's just a movie.

CJ there is nothing to get "outraged" about.

I'm not outraged about the movie. I don't think anyone is really. Disappointed, yes. Disappointed that they said, well no disappointed that I believed what they said when they said closer to the comic. I don't know how long you've been a fan AD but it is a let down when the first movie changed things around, to make it more believable, and it seems that they are doing the same thing here. Seems. Based on what I read. I like the draft. It's a pretty good story. I even didn't care that much about the changes until I thought about them for awhile. Ang tried to make it believable and it didn't work. Here we go again. Will it work? I don't know. But why all the gobbly gook? I know people get hurt and or killed. It doesn't bother me that much the way it's done to the one guy. It's actually funny. I know it's not my movie. I know Frenchy is doing what he thinks is right and so is Norton. To you it's a movie. To a lot of us, it's seeing our favorite character come to life on the screen only to get something other than the character we know and love. It's not that hard to understand.
 
would just as soon forget the fans, step all over what they respect (because it wouldn't work) and update everything

Funny thing is, this is how I felt about BB and Spider-man, yet most of those loyal fans turned right around and freaking praised these directors for changing... nearly everything.

Granted they were good films, but they continue to stray farther and farther with each sequal and people seem to love them.

But I do agree with you, they shouldn't forget us, we ARE what made the characters popular, but I've come to realize they just don't care. So I take each new movie, starting from scratch forgetting everything I know about the character.

That cannot be asked for everyone to do however, it's simply my way of dealing with Hollywoods lack of respect for people who made these characters popular.
 
But I do agree with you, they shouldn't forget us, we ARE what made the characters popular, but I've come to realize they just don't care. So I take each new movie, starting from scratch forgetting everything I know about the character.

That cannot be asked for everyone to do however, it's simply my way of dealing with Hollywoods lack of respect for people who made these characters popular.

I agree with you 100% on this. This is basically the way I approach these movies. The Hulk is a bit more difficult for me. He's the only comic I read growing up. I didn't start reading Spider-man, Bats or the others until later. And even then, it was still only a few characters I liked.
 
I agree with you 100% on this. This is basically the way I approach these movies. The Hulk is a bit more difficult for me. He's the only comic I read growing up. I didn't start reading Spider-man, Bats or the others until later. And even then, it was still only a few characters I liked.

I think you need to put up the positives against the negatives here. It's not called The Incredible Murdering Hulk. LOL I haven't read the script but have heard enough to understand what's going on with the issue you have. To me it's a non-issue because this is the film franchise. It's a new take on the same character so it can succeed on film. It's a different vision that to me is a bit more realistic as far as someone being a casualty of the carnage and how the characters deal with that. How a real person would deal with the curse of the Hulk. I think more people can relate to that and it doesn't sacrifice the core elements of the character. You also have information from a "work in progress". Let's wait to see the final product before we become angered and turn green. ;)
 
After reading the first draft (the Feb 07) of Transformers I was not too thrilled with the movie and thought it was going to be a total let down. Then the radical change of the look of the robots didn't help matters either. The shred of hope I clung to was that Peter Cullen was back and that at least I'd get a decent Prime. Well, in hindsight, I was pleasantly surprised at how well the script translated to an action adventure family film. Sure the differences are hard to get over, but this was not my G1 Transformers as much as this is not The Hulk people remember so well from the television program (I wanted to use the cliche'd "This Aint Yo Daddy's Hulk!):trans:
 
The Hulk from the TV program wasn't exactly the Hulk from the comics either. Things change it's not bad.
 
It's not called The Incredible Murdering Hulk. LOL I haven't read the script but have heard enough to understand what's going on with the issue you have.

AD Go back and re-read my posts. I don't have an issue with people getting hurt or killed. It's disappointing that we get the, more realistic and doesn't sacrifice the core elements of the character crap again. Knowing the core elements is a bonus :woot:

To me it's a non-issue because this is the film franchise. It's a new take on the same character so it can succeed on film. It's a different vision that to me is a bit more realistic as far as someone being a casualty of the carnage and how the characters deal with that. How a real person would deal with the curse of the Hulk. I think more people can relate to that and it doesn't sacrifice the core elements of the character.

A realisitc 9 foot tall, angry green guy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA What gets me is the Hulk has 40 some odd years of comic book history and they are staying closer to the TV show that lasted 5 years and most people would say was good for it's time. You want a franchise? Hmmm which source would I use? People seem to think that you take a big guy, paint him green and let him smash things and wala It's the Hulk. Wrong. You see AD, I one of those kinda people who doesn't believe in Can't. On my desk I have this motto,

Defeat is for those who acknowledge it.

When other appraisers in my office say I can't do this, I do it. There's always a way. There's not always someone willing to say "I can do it"

You also have information from a "work in progress". Let's wait to see the final product before we become angered and turn green. ;)

Yes I've read the draft and "I LIKED IT". Just because I'm disappointed with some of the proposed changes doesn't mean I didn't like the story. I am waiting to see what we get this time around. Will it be the Hulk or a Hulk.
 

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