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Discussion in 'The Daily Bugle' started by Chris Wallace, Oct 2, 2004.
One could argue that he's tramped all over Gwen's memory.
right now he has but we still got to wait until the end of the arc before we make any conclusions
No not really.I never cared for Gwen's character anyway.She was always very bland IMO.
Anyway we'll see how this ends before I make judgement.
yeah f**k Gwen...in normans case, literally
Doesnt bother me at all. I like this arc.
what if it ends that Norman gave Gwen something to control her mind, and make her tell all those things to MJ cause he thought she would tell Peter, and none of it is true, the kids are just kids he abducted and genetically altered to age faster, and he lied to them, and they have nothing to do with Gwen at all, it was all just a ploy to torture Peter?
Okay-that was mean. True, but mean.
Actually, that would piss me off. That's something I would expect from Mackie.
I'm not pissed at all, Sins Past is a fantastic story. JMS gets thumbs up from me. I'm liking this controversy.
it would be just a 'cash out' Joker's way but it would still give gwen 'depth' because she still would have stood up to Norman
Only way I would not be is if they were not Norman's kids, but Harry's and Gwens, and Norman just genetically altered them. But there noway thats happening. This just goes against every ones character.
I'm a fan. I like this story and I cant wait to see how he pulls it off. Just one thing bothers me. Its fact that Peter had sex with Black Cat. Now its fact he never slept with Gwen. So his first was Black Cat? What bull****. He and Gwen were in love and I thought it was hinted in Spider-man:Blue that they did sleep together. BC shouldnt be his first...
I thought MJ was Peter's first, as of ASM #149.
ya since peter said that him and gwen never had sex i would say that MJ was his first not Black Cat it could have even been Betty for all we know, it probably wasn't because she was the "first girlfriend" but you never know.....
I can't believe JMS wrote Sins Past instead of something awesome, like "Maximumer Carnage".
Now, what is, dare I ask, Gwen's memory? As far as I know, all that anybody really remembers about Gwen was that she died at the hands of the Green Goblin. That is the most memorable thing about her. Her personality? Nah. Never really had much of one. That's the reason that they (Marvel creative team at the time) killed her in the first place.
I ask you, what memory of Gwen is so precious except that she got killed is there to piss all over?
I am not so pissed that they destoryed her memory,cause as you said she was chosen to die cause the character had no...well character. I just don't like sleeping with Norman, it just doesn't really fit to me, Harry might have made more sense since he was a friend, but Norman seems really out of the blue and to soap opera to me. I mean if she did sleep with Harry or someone else, it would still be soap opera, but I think it would be more beliveable and a better story can spawn from it, I mean with it being Harry and Norman trying to have control of them. Peter would ber trying to save the children from the person who destoryed there parents. I think that would be a intresting story. But I will wait and see how it plays out from here.
I'd like to see someone else write the Babylon 5 TV movie where it's revealed that Delenn had sex with President Clark while Sheriden was away at Z'ha'dum, and became pregnant with his kids, and gave birth and hid them away somewhere, then be in the room when JMS sees this TV movie for the first time.
It would be realistic. I mean, Delenn isn't a saint or anything, it would be "realistic" and people make mistakes and such, right?
Go back and read the frickin' comics!
But in a nutshell, Gwen was pretty much what alot of guys would look for in a girlfriend/wife. Loving, smart, beautiful, fun, tough and loyal. What she wasn't was flighty, frivolous, and bubble-headed. Allowing a one-night stand to turn into parenthood and expecting Peter to carry the burden of her "mistake". Although granted the story isn't yet complete.
I mean- ask yourself why people even cared that she died?
As for her personality or lack thereof, that's in the eyes of the beholder. What the real problem was, was that Gerrry Conway at that point didn't know what to do with the character and didn't know how to take the relationship to the next level, so they went for the shock value.
But honestly, I think Gwen had ALOT more potential than MJ. (And this is not an invitation to debate which character is better). IMO, MJ is limited in the Spidey stories to being for the most part on the sidelines. We can at best see her doing her modeling or acting, and occasionally being involved with Peter's adventures. Otherwise she's just the loving, sexy wife. But for the most part, she's window dressing. Gwen however, could have had a direct part in Spidey's stories. She was a science major, and I could easily see her becoming either a forensic pathologist or even a cop like her dad. She could have actually been a part of the action and not have looked awkward. There was the powerful dynamic of her believing Spidey had a part in her father's death, the resolution of which could have led to a great story. The same with her learning Peter's secret. But TPTB didn't have the vision to take advantage of that potential. This however doesn't take away from the character. But what's going on in Sins Past does.
1 good thing came out of this story arc. I signed up for these boards
but.. really... i just read ASM #512.. and it is just... wow... terrible. I don't know WHAT Stratz is thinking... but its terrible. Any of you commenting about how gwen was never a good character, how she's just known for being DEAD.. damn, go read a few classic Spidey books. Gwen's relationship with Peter & then her death are CRUCIAL EVENTS of the Spider-man story. JMS is making a big mistake in my opinion. he's now destroyed.. Gwen as the character we knew, Norman Osbourn/Green Goblin, and the whole Gwen's death thing...
Is there any way for him to dig himself out of this nightmare of a storyline? Here's what i noticed about JMS on Spidey... his work with the Ezekiel stories were GREAT, and all that mystical spider thing, 9/11, etc etc., BUT he's written plenty of ZZZzzzzzz books as well...
i started reading 509 and said OKAY its starting off fine, then somewhere down the line in 510/511 i was like "WHY does that girl look like gwen??" i still don't have a good answer to it... its pathetic the way they disigned the character.. why does she look like gwen... down to the hair thingy? LOL. i hardly doubt they expected us to believe gwen is alive that would be EVEN WORSE that the situation we have now. I guess its a good "shock value cover" for... 12 yr olds... but wait, 12 yr olds prob don't know or give a *bleep* who gwen was. was that cover supposed to sell copies?? lol!
the idea of gwen + norman? i dunno, jms is just trying 2 get tricky, by tying new storylines in to old classic storylines. nice touch, and it rationally works, but when u try to meddle with something tried and true, u risk having the whole damn house fall down around u. why mess with the "memory" of gwen. jms really picked the wrong storyline to show off with.
its really starting to feel like the whole *peter parkers parent.. clones* *aunt may dies... oh no it was a .... clone* *mj and peter's baby gets... stolen* OH GOD.. is it starting again? all these things should just be ERASED from Spider-man continuality.. including "SINS PAST", damn. im ready to cancel my spidey subscription, and read a borrowed copy b4 committing to buy. if JMS can dig his butt out of this one i'll b honestly amazed. if not, thanks for messing up one of comics longest standing stories. the clones and all? forgivable, but not this. . .
yeah it is like a soap isn't it. too much drama. sigh. someone should have made jms read classic spidey b4 he started writing on the series. if jms is a spidey fan.. im ashamed. i guess we find out Oct. 27th, when issue #513 is released. dum de dum dum dum. btw, JMS ur supposed to be writing good spidey stories, not ruining classic ones.
and hey, anyone missing JRJ's art? i am.
dedato is good at drawing spidey and superheroes, but when it comes to getting the feel of uncostumed people... its just not all there, it reminds me too much of the dark Hulk books that he'd been recently on. and all the girls and guys he draws just lack personality. overall the book just looks dark and gloomy.
JRJ had the characters DOWN. the faces they made were JUST right, i guess we've been spoiled by JRJ. sure dedato is more realisitic, but just has less emotion to it. <-- nice faces on these boards ha ha
Got to agree with cyke the only interesting thing that gwen ever did was die.
It was completely unexpected, thats why people cared.
No.. That was why you cared.
There's actually a world out there that doesn't revolve around you.
Only started reading JMS stuff when Supreme Power was released and even then I was uncertain about the guy that created Babaylon 5 (sorry Babylon 5 fans but I hated it) but his totem stories in Amazing Spider-man and the current Sins Past story are some of the best stuff I'm reading at the moment.
I'm 23. I knew the story before I ever actually read it, so I was hardly ever going to find the outcome surprising.
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to criticise one viewpoint as a generalisation because it happens to disagree with your own?? (and indeed in the criticism make a wrongheaded assumption).
Truth is now all people remember gwen for is her death, which is entirely valid because it was the only interesting storyline to stem directly from her (whilst she was still one of the supporting cast).