Are DC films held to a different, higher standard?

[MbJ]

All three of the Nolan films have flaws, it's just that none of them are as glaringly obvious as the ones in BVS or Suicide Squad.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

The bottom line is that BvS and SS are filled with very obvious flaws that could have been easily avoidable. That's a big part of the reason why the critical reception was so bad.

Agreed. Bad movies get bad critic score. Bvs and SS deserve theirs.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

All three of the Nolan films have flaws, it's just that none of them are as glaringly obvious as the ones in BVS or Suicide Squad.

Nor are they as numerous or severe.

 

[Erzengel]

If MCU didn't have IM, TA, TWS, GOTG and CW, it wouldn't have the reputation. Same thing with TDK for the Nolan Trilogy or X2 and DOFP for the XMen franchise. Otherwise you just have Transformers or Pirates.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Agreed. Bad movies get bad critic score. Bvs and SS deserve theirs.

That's not fact, which is how you are stating it. Majority of moviegoers don't agree.

 

[MadVillainy]

No he's not stating it as fact. People don't need to say "imo" to differentiate if it's fact or not.

 

[Predator jp]

Majority of moviegoers love Transformers or Twilights but that doesn't make them good movies.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Majority of moviegoers love Transformers or Twilights but that doesn't make them good movies.

I disagree on that, at least domestically. I think the majority of moviegoers do dislike them. They just happen to nail a demo that loves them and as a result have gigantic fanbases, even if 99% of people outside of that demo despise them.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If MCU didn't have IM, TA, TWS, GOTG and CW, it wouldn't have the reputation. Same thing with TDK for the Nolan Trilogy or X2 and DOFP for the XMen franchise. Otherwise you just have Transformers or Pirates.

On a similar note, MoS is not the problem here. It was fine. Not great, but adequate. If there were other better DCEU movies and MoS was merely one of the weaker ones, that would be fine.

The problem is that MoS is considered to be by far the best of the DCEU and that is not okay.

 

[TeeKay]

It just shows how bad BvS and SS are if MoS is the best they can do.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think WW and JL will be better received. Especially with WW, I'd bet serious money on it.
If theyre not, then I dont think the DCEU lasts until 2022. Unless they keep releasing their movies around little competition.

No denying that the interest is there though

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It just shows how bad BvS and SS are if MoS is the best they can do.

You can't make films like BvS and have a healthy superhero franchise. Fox is still dealing with the ghosts of XMO and TLS, and unlike the DCEU, they have great films to help balance them out. I'd even argue that there are more great X-Men films (X2, FC, and DOFP) than horrible ones. It doesn't matter. Fans still don't trust Fox and when they show the slightest signs of weakness, like with Apocalypse, they just give up and don't buy tickets.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think WW and JL will be better received. Especially with WW, I'd bet serious money on it.

I don't have any clue about JL (my gut tells me that it'll probably be better received than the last two DCEU efforts but still a critical dud), but I'm extremely confident in WW.

 

[Predator jp]

i'm expecting MOS type reception with JL.
hope WW will be the best DCEU movie bar none.

 

[TeeKay]

You can't make films like BvS and have a healthy superhero franchise. Fox is still dealing with the ghosts of XMO and TLS, and unlike the DCEU, they have great films to help balance them out. I'd even argue that there are more great X-Men films (X2, FC, and DOFP) than horrible ones. It doesn't matter. Fans still don't trust Fox and when they show the slightest signs of weakness, like with Apocalypse, they just give up and don't buy tickets.

Agreed. The DCEU movies still make money no doubt, as bad as they are. But bad movies are bad for the genre I feel. Critics will start to be harsher because there's so many of these cbms coming out. A rising tide raises all boats. We can't have Marvel just be the one making good to great films while DC/WB is putting out poor ones. There needs to be a balance. I remember 2008 when IM, TDK and Hellboy 2 came out. It was a great year Coz those were great cbms.

I hope WW is Good. I already made up my mind about JL. I'm not seeing that in theatres and that comic con trailer further crime be my decision. MoS disappointed me,BvS burnt me and SS pissed me the **** off. I never thought the day would come when you'd **** up a movie featuring WW, Suoerman and Batman. It'd be the equivalent of Marvel ****ing up the Avengers (It's not a great film, it's a good one imo but it was a great achievement).They played it safe and now their audience will rush out and see anything they put out. Snyder needed to do that. Not do the **** he pulled in BvS. Marvel didn't start doing risky and controversial decisions at the beginning of their universe. They did all the way down when they knew they had the their audiences trust and basically in their pockets.

We'll see next year though. It'd be interesting to see what happens.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't have any clue about JL (my gut tells me that it'll probably be better received than the last two DCEU efforts but still a critical dud), but I'm extremely confident in WW.

Im not sure. The trailer didn't impress me personally. But that might be because I'm jaded to the DCEU as they are 0/3 for me

But I think WW is coming out in a time period where people are asking for a female centric superhero movie and I also feel that some will be afraid to criticize it. But I'm praying that I'm proven wrong. Ive always wanted a Wondy film.

With JL, I really think Affleck won't let the film be the jumbled mess of BvS or SS. Affleck isnt going back to the days where he's appearing in poorly received movies. He probably has the biggest turn around that I've seen in Hollywood.

Financially I am very worried about Wonder Woman. It has so much damn competition surrounding it. Pirates 5 and Transformers 5, yes both film series are..."poor" at best but those last ones made serious money and while I dont think Pirates will be a big success fact remains that that is a billion dollar franchise.
In addition to that theres: Cars 3, Despicable Me 3, Kingsman 2 (such a stupid move to put it in summer), and The Mummy with Cruise. All within a month of WW's release, all of which will take some of the kids crowd, the action movie crowd, and/or at the very least a few of the 3D & IMAX theaters

I think WW will make it's money, but they really stiffled it's box office potential. Im still of the mind that BvS and SS wouldnt be as successful as they were if they were released around competition.

 

[BH/HHH]

They're 3/3 for me, I was never really a huge Wonder Woman fan, on JL/JLU she irratated me, the comics she just didn't interested me but after seeing her in BvS and now I can't wait for Wonder Woman.

 

[Flint Marko]

Im not sure. The trailer didn't impress me personally. But that might be because I'm jaded to the DCEU as they are 0/3 for me

But I think WW is coming out in a time period where people are asking for a female centric superhero movie and I also feel that some will be afraid to criticize it. But I'm praying that I'm proven wrong. Ive always wanted a Wondy film.

With JL, I really think Affleck won't let the film be the jumbled mess of BvS or SS. Affleck isnt going back to the days where he's appearing in poorly received movies. He probably has the biggest turn around that I've seen in Hollywood.

Financially I am very worried about Wonder Woman. It has so much damn competition surrounding it. Pirates 5 and Transformers 5, yes both film series are..."poor" at best but those last ones made serious money and while I dont think Pirates will be a big success fact remains that that is a billion dollar franchise.
In addition to that theres: Cars 3, Despicable Me 3, Kingsman 2 (such a stupid move to put it in summer), and The Mummy with Cruise. All within a month of WW's release, all of which will take some of the kids crowd, the action movie crowd, and/or at the very least a few of the 3D & IMAX theaters

I think WW will make it's money, but they really stiffled it's box office potential. Im still of the mind that BvS and SS wouldnt be as successful as they were if they were released around competition.

I'm definitely jaded towards the DCEU, but I was blown away by the WW trailer. Hopefully my confidence is warranted. If it's good, hopefully it will make money, but yeah that release date is going to make things difficult.

 

[jmc]

Im not sure. The trailer didn't impress me personally. But that might be because I'm jaded to the DCEU as they are 0/3 for me

But I think WW is coming out in a time period where people are asking for a female centric superhero movie and I also feel that some will be afraid to criticize it. But I'm praying that I'm proven wrong. Ive always wanted a Wondy film.

With JL, I really think Affleck won't let the film be the jumbled mess of BvS or SS. Affleck isnt going back to the days where he's appearing in poorly received movies. He probably has the biggest turn around that I've seen in Hollywood.

Financially I am very worried about Wonder Woman. It has so much damn competition surrounding it. Pirates 5 and Transformers 5, yes both film series are..."poor" at best but those last ones made serious money and while I dont think Pirates will be a big success fact remains that that is a billion dollar franchise.
In addition to that theres: Cars 3, Despicable Me 3, Kingsman 2 (such a stupid move to put it in summer), and The Mummy with Cruise. All within a month of WW's release, all of which will take some of the kids crowd, the action movie crowd, and/or at the very least a few of the 3D & IMAX theaters

I think WW will make it's money, but they really stiffled it's box office potential. Im still of the mind that BvS and SS wouldnt be as successful as they were if they were released around competition.

People won't be afraid to criticise it. When we've had countless examples in the past of female superhero movies getting crapped on Wonder Woman is not going to be given any special treatment, in fact I'd go so far to say that film has an unfair burden to bare due to receptions of previous female superhero films. But one way or another honesty is important, we as a community have to be honest with our assessments of these films, it does no-one any favours by trying to gloss over something that isn't working.

Financially WW should be ok if the reported $100m budget is true. That makes the break even point relatively small, so even if the film follows in its predecessors footsteps and is once again panned WB should at worst break even. This begs the question though if WW can be made so cheaply why can't other superhero films be given smaller budgets? I refuse to believe every superhero movie needs to spend over $150m in production costs to get made. The DCEU would be in a far better place if WB simply reigned in the budgets significantly. If Deadpool can make almost as much as BvS with one-fifth the budget you cannot tell me you can't cut costs.

 

[MadVillainy]

People won't be afraid to criticise it. When we've had countless examples in the past of female superhero movies getting crapped on Wonder Woman is not going to be given any special treatment, in fact I'd go so far to say that film has an unfair burden to bare due to receptions of previous female superhero films. But one way or another honesty is important, we as a community have to be honest with our assessments of these films, it does no-one any favours by trying to gloss over something that isn't working.

Financially WW should be ok if the reported $100m budget is true. That makes the break even point relatively small, so even if the film follows in its predecessors footsteps and is once again panned WB should at worst break even. This begs the question though if WW can be made so cheaply why can't other superhero films be given smaller budgets? I refuse to believe every superhero movie needs to spend over $150m in production costs to get made. The DCEU would be in a far better place if WB simply reigned in the budgets significantly. If Deadpool can make almost as much as BvS with one-fifth the budget you cannot tell me you can't cut costs.

To the bolded, different times. I think some critics wont want the Tumblr crowd, Twitter fingers blowback you get today. But we'll see. I kinda saw it from GB16, where it really seemed critics were really trying to stretch their positive reception of the movie. But as I said we'll see. As long as their not post production issues, I imagine it'll be fine

And even without looking it up, I am guessing that Wondy cost more that 100 mill. Judging of the trailer alone, I doubt that. Period pieces, understandably, seem to cost so much. And that's not counting the action and what not.

I dont see a source on the 100 mill budget except articles that are saying that WW is the first to hold a 100 mill budget, but the language kinda seems to me that it's a movie that is at least a 100 mill budget.
Also found this statement saying that the budget is reportedly 150 mill.
http://dccomicsmovie.com/madeleine-vall-confirms-shes-playing-amazon-warrior-egeria-in-wonder-woman/

Now of course Im just talking/speculating. I havent seen any more from the movie than anyone else. But those battle scenes alone and the fact that it's period piece makes me think this is a decent amount above just 100 mill. Which is the standard reported budget for most superhero films. If they really scaled this back to the point of 100 mill, I'll be pleasantly surprised. It's a smart move

I do agree that budgets are out of control though. Across Hollywood

 

[MbJ]

To the bolded, different times. I think some critics wont want the Tumblr crowd, Twitter fingers blowback you get today.

I really don't think critics give a **** about people being mad about their reviews. That's something that comes with the territory.

We've already had insane people sending death threats to women and starting petitions to shut down review sites over the bad press Batman vs. Superman got. I really don't think anything is going to shock or surprise critics anymore.

 

[MadVillainy]

Again I saw some critics pulling their punches with GB16. Or least it seemed like it.

 

[MbJ]

What is GB16?

And I'd just say look at it like this. Suicide Squad is probably the most diverse superhero movie ever made. The two main characters are a black guy and a woman. The team has multiple women and minorities. Both the lead villain and one of the head honcho behind the Squad are women (and the latter is a black woman to boot). It is far and away, more diverse than anything Marvel or any other comic movie has ever put out.

That didn't stop it from being savaged and ripped to shreds by critics.

 

[MadVillainy]

Ghostbusters 16

and true about SS. Didn't think that
Welp...

 

[BlueLanternKal]

There's diversity in an obscure property about a rag-tag group of antivillains.

And then there's the first time a 75 year old beloved icon that is synonymous with female empowerent is being brought to the big screen which so happens to be in a time when one of the nominees for POTUS is a woman. (No, I don't like her for POTUS, but it's definitely not because of her uterus.)

Major difference.