Arrow Arrow Season 3 Episode 16 the offer

[Loki882]

The Bat-family also has:

-Red Robin.
-Nightwing.
-Red Hood (he has a loose affiliation with them in the New 52).
-Spoiler.
-Black Bat.
-Sometimes Catwoman.

and now:

-Bluebird.
-Julia Pennyworth.

And then there's all of the Super-characters as well. Yes, ridiculous huge "families" are a staple of the genre, even for a guy like Batman who's allegedly a "brooding loner."

 

[Seb]

With the exception of Diggle and Felicity, neither of whom wear masks, it's very comic accurate.

The Green Arrow family has usually been Oliver, Dinah, Roy and Mia. They will have achieved this if Roy lives by the time Thea gets her mask.

I haven't read New 52 stuff, does Roy work with Team Arrow again after Mia joined? I thought he'd been solo/on other teams since the 80's. Connor, Mia and Ollie worked together, though I think Dinah was more a Bird of Prey (I'm quite behind on Green Arrow and haven't even reached the GA/BC wedding, so could be wrong on that).

 

[Seb]

It not different from batman, robin and batgirl working together as a team. But I think Roy will going solo eventually

I don't read New 52, but Batman, Robin and Batgirl working together hasn't been a thing since Barbara was Batgirl pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths. Batman works with a Robin, but both Batgirls were on team Oracle, Red Robin and Nightwing were solo, Spoiler and Huntress were operating against Batman's express wishes, Canary was barely tolerated. Most of the Bat Family worked alone or in pairs unless there was a big threat to face, and even then they'd divide and conquer.

On a purely story-based level, they each had their own books to explore their characters, Arrow is juggling all its cast and always having to drop some balls to keep others in the air.

 

[Seb]

Except Ra's threatened to kill citizens of Star City if Oliver didn't bring him the person who killed Sara. If we are to believe Oliver has made the jump from murderous vigilante to city protecting superhero, then him not giving up Merlyn to be murdered can't be looked at as a dumb decision.

People want him to be 100% faithful to the comics and be Green Arrow, would Green Arrow in the comics give up an enemy to be murdered?

Only dumb decision now is Oliver not handing Merlyn over to the authorities. So hopefully when they go to Diggle's wedding Merlyn gives them the slip so it doesn't become a thing.

Thing is, Oliver was prepared to kill Ra's (a guy he had no real evidence had killed a bunch of people - though it was a safe bet given him being the leader of the League of Assassins) to protect Merlin - who he knew killed hundreds of innocents including his own son.

Would comic GA give up someone to be murdered? Well, Longbow Hunters Oliver might, and when Prometheus bombed Star City Oliver essentially lobotomised him.

Helping Laurel lie to Lance wasn't exactly a smart decision either.

 

[Nathan]

I just don't understand that he's still keeping Malcolm around. And that he even brought him back to Thea's place. After he saved his life, he should have told him that he's now on his own. Malcolm has a fricking place in Starling. I'm pretty sure he didn't sleep on the streets.

 

[Boy Scout]

Don't think too hard. It's stupid. The end.

 

[Herolee10]

I just don't understand that he's still keeping Malcolm around. And that he even brought him back to Thea's place. After he saved his life, he should have told him that he's now on his own. Malcolm has a fricking place in Starling. I'm pretty sure he didn't sleep on the streets.

The Logic of "Arrow".lol

MALCOLM: (Thinking to himself) What would be the best way to get Ra's Al Ghul and the League off my track? I know! I should hypnotize Thea into killing Sara, the beloved of Ra's daughter Nyssa. That way, I can force Oliver to take on Ra's Al Ghul in my place, even though Oliver is not much of a sword fighter and the fact that he barely defeated me the last time we were in combat against each other. And if anyone asks me on whether I killed Sara, I'll simply deny it with conviction.


OLIVER: (Thinking to himself) I need to keep Thea safe at all costs and prevent her from tarnishing her own soul. What to do? What to do? I know! I'll insist that she stays by Malcolm's side at all times, even though she'll probably be furious with him over the fact that he forced her to kill Sara against her own will. Although Thea will be in 10 different kinds of pain, should she ever find out the truth, I need to keep Malcolm next to her since the dude is not safe at any of the places that he has for himself (even though the League were never able to find him there before). Plus, even though Malcolm is responsible for killing my ex-girlfriend, best friend, and 500 civilians, I must protect him as well at all costs in order to protect Thea.


AUDIENCES: (Thinking to ourselves)

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I don't care about logic.....because it will all work out in the end. Every show has logic problems

 

[Nathan]

The Logic of "Arrow".lol

MALCOLM: (Thinking to himself) What would be the best way to get Ra's Al Ghul and the League off my track? I know! I should hypnotize Thea into killing Sara, the beloved of Ra's daughter Nyssa. That way, I can force Oliver to take on Ra's Al Ghul in my place, even though Oliver is not much of a sword fighter and the fact that he barely defeated me the last time we were in combat against each other. And if anyone asks me on whether I killed Sara, I'll simply deny it with conviction.


OLIVER: (Thinking to himself) I need to keep Thea safe at all costs and prevent her from tarnishing her own soul. What to do? What to do? I know! I'll insist that she stays by Malcolm's side at all times, even though she'll probably be furious with him over the fact that he forced her to kill Sara against her own will. Although Thea will be in 10 different kinds of pain, should she ever find out the truth, I need to keep Malcolm next to her since the dude is not safe at any of the places that he has for himself (even though the League were never able to find him there before). Plus, even though Malcolm is responsible for killing my ex-girlfriend, best friend, and 500 civilians, I must protect him as well at all costs in order to protect Thea.


AUDIENCES: (Thinking to ourselves)

Just... just how can't the writers of the show see this? Are they all huffing paint as they write the scripts?

 

[Herolee10]

I don't care about logic.....because it will all work out in the end. Every show has logic problems

You know, surprisingly I could hear Oliver saying the exact same thing if someone questioned him about his approach with the Malcolm situation.lol

Unless you have spoilers that most of us aren't privy to, what makes you so confident about that?

Plus, while other shows do have problems with the logic that they present, I'd argue that it shouldn't encourage them to keep making the same mistakes and become lazy with their writing as a result.

Also, the logic problems for this show is actually hurting it, imho. Pardon us if we don't want to blind to the show's problems.

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't care about logic.....because it will all work out in the end. Every show has logic problems

It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you say things like that.

 

[JC00]

Thing is, Oliver was prepared to kill Ra's (a guy he had no real evidence had killed a bunch of people - though it was a safe bet given him being the leader of the League of Assassins) to protect Merlin - who he knew killed hundreds of innocents including his own son.

Would comic GA give up someone to be murdered? Well, Longbow Hunters Oliver might, and when Prometheus bombed Star City Oliver essentially lobotomised him.

Helping Laurel lie to Lance wasn't exactly a smart decision either.

I guess I just dont have a problem with it like some because the final half of the season was predicated on Oliver fighting Ra's.

As for him not telling Quentin. Come on that was a plot device to get Quentin to turn on The Arrow which ties into what is to come. Which clearly the writers are telling you it was dumb for him not to say anything because now it's gonna come back to bite him.

 

[Seb]

I guess I just dont have a problem with it like some because the final half of the season was predicated on Oliver fighting Ra's.

As for him not telling Quentin. Come on that was a plot device to get Quentin to turn on The Arrow which ties into what is to come. Which clearly the writers are telling you it was dumb for him not to say anything because now it's gonna come back to bite him.

I think I had a similar conversation to this somewhere on this site before. I think it basically comes down to what is most important to you when watching a show. For me, the characters should come first, the plot second. If your clever plot requires your established characters to do something that makes no sense given the morals/intelligence/whatever your characters have displayed, then find another plot.

I completely get, though, that these priorities are not the same for everyone. In the end, this is just a puppet show. I get easily distracted whenever I can see the strings, especially when the puppeteer seems to be bending the puppet in ways it shouldn't bend. But yeah, tastes differ.

 

[Silliminite]

The show has its issues, but let's just say that ending was epic. Hope this season can at least finish strongly.

 

[Boy Scout]

i think i had a similar conversation to this somewhere on this site before. I think it basically comes down to what is most important to you when watching a show. For me, the characters should come first, the plot second. If your clever plot requires your established characters to do something that makes no sense given the morals/intelligence/whatever your characters have displayed, then find another plot.

qft.

 

[JC00]

Except why is it on Oliver to tell Quentin anything? Pretty sure that one is on Laurel and her mother over Oliver. He was just repsecting how Laurel wanted to deal with it.

So no your point doesn't stand on that issue.

 

[Boy Scout]

He actively helped her deceive him. There's respecting her wishes and then there's cooperating in her deceit.

 

[JC00]

Cooperating in deceit? Come on

Laurel: Can you not tell my dad about Sara. I fear for his health.
Oliver: Screw that I'm gonna tell him anyways even if it kills him regardless if I saw him almost die during an encounter with Werner Zytle.

 

[Nathan]

People just don't talk things out on the show. The whole feud with Slade could have potentially be avoided, had Oliver told him he jumped in front of the gun, and Ivo shot Shado instead.

And in this situation he could have told Lance that Laurel feared for his health. But it doesn't matter, the whole plot this season is stupid anyway.

 

[spider-neil]

I hope Ollie joins the League because the show is in need of a serious shake up. I thought this week's episode was tedious, especially when compared to this week's Flash.

 

[Nathan]

Almost every episode of Arrow feels tedious now. To me at least. Because I have to sit through a plot that I know is just utter bollocks. Only thing I liked so far are the occasional character moments. Like Roy showing Thea how he deals with his guilt. Or Team Arrow finally not putting up with all of Oliver's shenanigans anymore. And Ray is enjoyable too. But everything that involves Ra's, Malcolm and Oliver is just terrible.

 

[spider-neil]

Almost every episode of Arrow feels tedious now. To me at least. Because I have to sit through a plot that I know is just utter bollocks. Only thing I liked so far are the occasional character moments. Like Roy showing Thea how he deals with his guilt. Or Team Arrow finally not putting up with all of Oliver's shenanigans anymore. And Ray is enjoyable too. But everything that involves Ra's, Malcolm and Oliver is just terrible.

When Flash ended I was like NOOOOOOO!!!! Half way through Arrow I was actively checking my watch. That is such a stark difference. They need to do 'something' because currently watching Arrow is chore.

 

[Boy Scout]

Cooperating in deceit? Come on...

Well...yes. Their reasons for deceiving him don't change the fact that they did, indeed, deceive him.

I hope Ollie joins the League...

Same.

 

[Bats1690]

It wasn't Oliver's place to tell Lance about Sara. That was on Laurel.

 

[godisawesome]

I think I had a similar conversation to this somewhere on this site before. I think it basically comes down to what is most important to you when watching a show. For me, the characters should come first, the plot second. If your clever plot requires your established characters to do something that makes no sense given the morals/intelligence/whatever your characters have displayed, then find another plot.

I completely get, though, that these priorities are not the same for everyone. In the end, this is just a puppet show. I get easily distracted whenever I can see the strings, especially when the puppeteer seems to be bending the puppet in ways it shouldn't bend. But yeah, tastes differ.

Thats a really good way to put it. When stuff seems organically constructed from characterization and consequences, it feels much better to me on the show than otherwise.

So, when Manu Bennett and co played Slade's heel turn as being largely drug fueled and mostly using Shado's death as a catalyst, the best parts were Slade's reactions and obvious irrationality, while the worst parts were his apparent love for Shado and Oliver's inability to tell the truth. Or how Sara calling in the LoA to help save Starling fit in well, as did her having to rejoin them, but the way she seemed happy with the situation didn't. Anytime the actions and reactions follow the show's internal logic, it works great, but the little breaks in the charade seem really stupid.