ASM #600! 104 Pages! No reprints! No ads! Now... with CAKE!

[Phaedrus45]

I'm not really sure exactly how you're relating to what happens here on message boards to someone physically coming into your workplace and criticizing you as a worker. Can you explain what you mean?

Ok, that's actually better than what I was actually trying to say. If they only critiqued me at work, I could handle that better. But, if someone critiqued by work on a message board that could be read by many, many people, I would probably live my life in a bubble.

The movie more focuses on those who simply seem to derive joy from a) trying to be the focal point of attention by "heckling" and b) those who use those critiques to make personal, mean-spirited statements about those they are critiquing. And, that's not to say "Shame on you people who do that," but, just saying that I, personally, had a change of attitude that I've noticed since seeing that documentary. I still give a slightly negative critique from time to time, like saying the short stories in issue #600 weren't my cup of tea, because it feels like I've read those kinds numerous times; but, I don't think I'd go to the extreme any longer. More often than naught, I'll just get on the Bought Thought lately, and just say "Read this comic" if I think people might like it.

Take this thread started by Slott. What good would it do to slam his work in a thread he started, hoping to promote something he obviously felt very proud of? I know people would say "it's the nature of The Hype." I just disagree. The Hype is what we make it, and it can possibly reflect something else if we wanted it to.

Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent.

 

[SpideyInATree]

As for spidey 600, i thought it was pretty lame myself. Whole thing felt like something out of the 80s.

And having MJ show up for a whole single panel? WHOOOPIE!!! (yeah, that's sarcasm). If I'd paid $5 for this I'd've been pretty ticked. Heck, if I'd have paid $3 I'd have been ticked. Luckily I get advance copies of most issues.

I like a lot of what Dan's written, but I still haven't been impressed with 90% of the post-omd crap they've put out. Parker was a character I could respect, I can't respect a guy who makes deals with the devil and who refuses to grow-up.

My sig still stands.

She showed up in one panel in # 600 and will be back in the book full time from what I've heard. I believe if you see the cover for # 601 MJ is on it.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ok, that's actually better than what I was actually trying to say. If they only critiqued me at work, I could handle that better. But, if someone critiqued by work on a message board that could be read by many, many people, I would probably live my life in a bubble.

The movie more focuses on those who simply seem to derive joy from a) trying to be the focal point of attention by "heckling" and b) those who use those critiques to make personal, mean-spirited statements about those they are critiquing. And, that's not to say "Shame on you people who do that," but, just saying that I, personally, had a change of attitude that I've noticed since seeing that documentary. I still give a slightly negative critique from time to time, like saying the short stories in issue #600 weren't my cup of tea, because it feels like I've read those kinds numerous times; but, I don't think I'd go to the extreme any longer. More often than naught, I'll just get on the Bought Thought lately, and just say "Read this comic" if I think people might like it.

Take this thread started by Slott. What good would it do to slam his work in a thread he started, hoping to promote something he obviously felt very proud of? I know people would say "it's the nature of The Hype." I just disagree. The Hype is what we make it, and it can possibly reflect something else if we wanted it to.

Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent.

Okay, I think I see what you're saying now. I'm not sure if you're making direct reference to this particularly or not:

When something as radical and polarizing as OMD comes along it's going to come up on a semi-frequent basis, and as long as it's civil, there's no problem with it. Afterall, that's more or less what the Hype and other boards are here for.

But I really didn't mean anything towards Slott personally or anything. As far as their work is concerned I do agree. We do sometimes make it a little too personal I suppose towards the writers and/or artists in question whenever there's a terrible story or whenever stories and characters go directions we dislike.

As far as the work itself. I don't know, I guess I can meet you halfway. It's a little silly when people go super overboard with their negativity towards stuff, but I don't really find anything particularly wrong with somewhat harsh criticism towards a piece if they give good warrant. I know that leads into agreements, but as long as they stay impersonal in nature and stay just to being an argument about said work with each side giving their points, I'm fine with it. I think you can do that without really offending your the other side all. Well, not too much anyway.

I mean it's kind of like I agree we need more Ben Lyons out there, who do criticize but are kinder and don't really offend, but at the same time I like the Jay Shermans out there who are bastards and rip things apart to the point of gutting them. Of course I don't agree a lot of times and tend to get in there, but that's mostly because I like discussing/arguing stuff and don't really have a problem throwing down every once and awhile.

I will fully agree that it's pretty dumb to just do it for spotlight privileges, especially on message boards

 

[SpideyInATree]

My point WASN'T that you can't prove that current spidey isn't about Spidey. My point was that it's NO MORE about spidey than pre-omd stuff was. Cuz guess what, pre-omd stuff? Still spidey there, every issue. In fact I own the 40 issues that come before OMD, and yep, pretty darn sure it's all still Spidey. That was my point.
His constant inane bickering with JJJ isn't something you want to go pointing out btw. That fits pretty deep into the whole "they won't let Peter mature into an actual adult" area.

And from what I recall about the Spider-Man books in those 40 issues before One More Day were fans still complaining about how Peter Parker was constantly being written out of character.

Sins Past, The Other, and the Unmasking. I remember very vividly many fans voicing how Peter was totally out of character. He would never have spikes shoot out from his wrists. He would have never unmasked. He would never have been that stupid.

The fact of the matter is there are fans that, no matter what the creators do, will never be happy with the direction of the book. Very rarely on these boards have I seen fans on here collectively agree that a Spider-Man book was good.

I've enjoyed the direction of the book since Brand New Day. It's had a very old school Spider-Man feel to it that makes me excited to pick up the book every week.

Maybe one day soon you will be able to pick up the book again and be able to enjoy Spider-Man. As another poster said earlier in the thread. They are not going to be changing things anytime soon. Peter is not going to be magically married to Mary Jane again. That's just the way it is.

 

[Tron Bonne]

And from what I recall about the Spider-Man books in those 40 issues before One More Day were fans still complaining about how Peter Parker was constantly being written out of character.

Sins Past, The Other, and the Unmasking. I remember very vividly many fans voicing how Peter was totally out of character. He would never have spikes shoot out from his wrists. He would have never unmasked. He would never have been that stupid.

The fact of the matter is there are fans that, no matter what the creators do, will never be happy with the direction of the book. Very rarely on these boards have I seen fans on here collectively agree that a Spider-Man book was good.

I've enjoyed the direction of the book since Brand New Day. It's had a very old school Spider-Man feel to it that makes me excited to pick up the book every week.

Maybe one day soon you will be able to pick up the book again and be able to enjoy Spider-Man. As another poster said earlier in the thread. They are not going to be changing things anytime soon. Peter is not going to be magically married to Mary Jane again. That's just the way it is.

You are right, in the past couple of the years even before pre-OMD there was a lot of mischaracterization, but I openly argue that this was more the fault of the storylines in question. Stuff like The Other and Unmasking were just bad ideas and awful directions for Spidey. That's something that I think most Spidey fans will agree to.

However, there is a big difference between slight mischaracterization and radical mischaracterization. I've used this example before as I find it accurate. Around 10-15 years ago, Hal Jordan went insane and murdered his own allies and friends. This was a radical mischaracterization. Now, I could care less about Hal Jordan and I actually liked his replacement way better then I ever liked him, but I still recognize just how big of a WTF moment it was. His fans were up in arms, even formed their own group called H.E.A.T. Sure, over the years it died down, but it was still something that came up in discussion pretty much until Hal returned to main GL status.

Spidey and MJ making a deal with a being that they both knew was probably the most evil in the Marvel Universe for a woman who had repeatedly let them know that she wanted to die was a radical mischaracterization. Whether you agree with the outcome or not, it's really not that hard to see just how off the wall that is.

Of course, part of the reason was the real agenda behind it, but how they went about it wasn't just out of character, it was a totally different character taking the place of Peter and MJ. Just like it was a totally different character taking the place of Hal Jordan when he turned heel. Sure, it's just fiction, but we should all realize that most hardcore fans treat it as more then just mindless, throwaway entertainment. Especially those who go out of their way to regulate boards like these.

It's true that we'll never see full unity of fans on franchise directions, but it's easy to recognize the reason why OMD has been so controversial and why it continues to pop up in discussions.

 

[BlackLantern]

for the record MJ agreed to the deal first

 

[Tron Bonne]

I know, but that's irrelevant to the point and really has no bearing on anything

 

[BlackLantern]

and there has been hide nor hair of Mephisto since...i still dont like how shes drawn, I hate the Romita look, she looks Asian...loved her mid to late nineties look

 

[bryanss3]

Yeah thats probably my only complaint about JRJR. I hate his MJ.

 

[random_havoc]

Thanks for replying to my post Dan. Please know that the following isn't meant to be insulting, but I don't believe in just sucking up simply cuz I admire the majority of your work. That being said...

What?!

You're saying that Peter should "progress" and not bicker with JJJ anymore?

WHAT?!

Do you want him to stop walking up walls too?

Come on. At some point you have to realize that OMD/BND-hate is making you say some pretty crazy things.

Are you saying you don't know any adults who bicker? I swear to God, it's getting to the point where I half expect an OMD/BND-hater to say, "You had Spidey's web-shooters make a 'thwip' sound?! RETREAD! LAZY WRITING! You're not letting his web-shooters PROGRESS!"

Not at all, but thanks for taking one tiny relatively insignificant line out of all my argumentation and addressing that rather than the important points.
My point was how the bickering takes place. As with many things the same idea can be either good or bad depending on how well it's handled. Of course there should still be interplay between the two, but frankly the writing regards to Peter and JJJ has a few times made me embarassed to read he acts so childish. There's witty insulting, and there's childish insulting. Big difference. And Peter should be PROGRESSED enough into a mature character to be displaying the former rather than the latter.

On a side-note, I like the fact that in the Spidey comics these days Peter is giving his photos to a decent paper now and that JJJ is the mayor. Of course, THAT EXACT SAME THING COULD'VE BEEN DONE WITH PETER AND MJ STILL TOGETHER, so that still scores no points for the OMD ******edness (yeah, I know that's not a word lol)

 

[iloveclones]

Ok, that's actually better than what I was actually trying to say. If they only critiqued me at work, I could handle that better. But, if someone critiqued by work on a message board that could be read by many, many people, I would probably live my life in a bubble.

The movie more focuses on those who simply seem to derive joy from a) trying to be the focal point of attention by "heckling" and b) those who use those critiques to make personal, mean-spirited statements about those they are critiquing. And, that's not to say "Shame on you people who do that," but, just saying that I, personally, had a change of attitude that I've noticed since seeing that documentary. I still give a slightly negative critique from time to time, like saying the short stories in issue #600 weren't my cup of tea, because it feels like I've read those kinds numerous times; but, I don't think I'd go to the extreme any longer. More often than naught, I'll just get on the Bought Thought lately, and just say "Read this comic" if I think people might like it.

Take this thread started by Slott. What good would it do to slam his work in a thread he started, hoping to promote something he obviously felt very proud of? I know people would say "it's the nature of The Hype." I just disagree. The Hype is what we make it, and it can possibly reflect something else if we wanted it to.

Sorry, kind of went off on a tangent.

My favorite was always "well, if you can't handle the wild world of the internet...." which to me was always just an excuse for behaving poorly, and in a way that you never would if you were face to face.

 

[iloveclones]

Not at all, but thanks for taking one tiny relatively insignificant line out of all my argumentation and addressing that rather than the important points.

Yeah, I know. Sucks when people nit-pick.

 

[iloveclones]

Yeah thats probably my only complaint about JRJR. I hate his MJ.

So I'm not the only one. I actually went "Ewwwwwww" when I saw that splash-page.

 

[Dan_Slott]

Not at all, but thanks for taking one tiny relatively insignificant line out of all my argumentation and addressing that rather than the important points.

random_havoc,
I'm sorry, but it's NOT an insignificant point. I think it goes to the heart of it. There are some people out there that just plain HATE on ASM post-OMD, people who actively LOOK and WANT things to be wrong and will bend any piece of minutia to try to make their point and justify their fan-rage. Am I suppose to believe there's any possible chance of getting a fair and balanced review from someone who has "Proudly still haven't bought a single Spider-Man issue since OMD" as their signature 50+ issues later? Really?

My point was how the bickering takes place. As with many things the same idea can be either good or bad depending on how well it's handled. Of course there should still be interplay between the two, but frankly the writing regards to Peter and JJJ has a few times made me embarassed to read he acts so childish. There's witty insulting, and there's childish insulting. Big difference.

Bull. No offense, but I'm calling BS on that. You're saying it's okay for Spider-Man and JJJ to still bicker with each other, but ONLY if it falls into certain shades of bickering? Step back and look at that again. Spider-Man and JJJ bicker with each other all the time. It's an iconic part of the Spider-Man legacy-- as integral to the series as Spidey's wall crawling, web-shooting, and wisecracking. But you are so filled with post-OMD rage, you are looking for ANY reason to split hairs and hate on this book.

And Peter should be PROGRESSED enough into a mature character to be displaying the former rather than the latter.

So you're saying it's ONLY okay if Peter and JJJ bicker with each other in a "witty" way as opposed to a "childish" way. What? Is this a Shavian sitting room comedy all of the sudden? What? Is this the Algonquin Round Table? This's an ABSURD argument. Are you telling me that you don't know adults who get on each other's nerves and act childlishly around each other?

On a side-note, I like the fact that in the Spidey comics these days Peter is giving his photos to a decent paper now and that JJJ is the mayor. Of course, THAT EXACT SAME THING COULD'VE BEEN DONE WITH PETER AND MJ STILL TOGETHER, so that still scores no points for the OMD ******edness (yeah, I know that's not a word lol)

Get off this already. Seriously. Were you running around the past 20 years writing in all caps "YOU COULD TELL THIS EXACT SAME THING WITH AN UN-MARRIED PETE AND MJ!" No, you weren't. This argument is insane. It's like the people who make this argument would ONLY be satisfied if every-darn-panel-of-the-book showed things ONLY an unmarried Peter could do-- and for him to comment on that exact fact. (Like THAT would make the anti-OMD/BND fans happy.).

It's so hard to take any of your arguments seriously. Especially given your "proud" signature.

 

[Themanofbat]

 

[Ion Kenshin]

Wow. Regardless though I am still enjoying the current Spidey status. They are fun reads IMO. In regards to the marriage I don't even mind that Peter and MJ are not together anymore. My issue with it was the way it happened. I mean come on how is that people in the Marvel Universe can practically have their brain matter paint the walls but be patched up with no problem yet Aunt May gets shot and no one..NO ONE can do anything to help her. IMO they should have let Aunt May die. The stress and grief from it is so much for Peter that he begins to push MJ away. After this happening time and again and MJ not being able to help him get over the death it puts a strain on the marriage and they eventually just split up....or something of that nature. I just don't understand why Satan needed to be involved at all.

 

[BlackLantern]

well look at the reasons for Mephisto even presenting them with the deal....he said that their love was SO PURE that taking it away from God would be an ultimate victory...to me that says that no matter what were to happen, Pete and MJ would endure

 

[iloveclones]

But you are so filled with post-OMD rage, .

We prefer to call it POSD, Post OMD Stress Disorder. Or Derangement. Take you pick...

 

[BlackLantern]

I call it "Need-a-hug-itis"

 

[farmernudie]

I do not like the OMD/BND reboot/direction.

HOWEVER...i must say that....PEte and JJJ arguing/bickering endlessly is part of what they just DO....nothing wrong with that still....

Just calling it like it is, being fair.

I am still reading, but not buying.

To be fair tho, when Marvel are the ones that say they want to tell "single specific stories" that "They've never been able to before"....they also need to BACK that up...that came from YOU guys....not the fans who love or hate the direction.

 

[iloveclones]

Get off this already. Seriously. Were you running around the past 20 years writing in all caps "YOU COULD TELL THIS EXACT SAME THING WITH AN UN-MARRIED PETE AND MJ!" No, you weren't. This argument is insane. It's like the people who make this argument would ONLY be satisfied if every-darn-panel-of-the-book showed things ONLY an unmarried Peter could do-- and for him to comment on that exact fact. (Like THAT would make the anti-OMD/BND fans happy.).

Please do that in a future issue:

Pete gets up, brushes his teeth, AND LEAVES THE TOILET SEAT UP.

Then, while eating breakfast, HE WATCHES PORN.

Then, in the middle of a mugging, HE BURPS AND SCRATCHES HIMSELF.

Then he goes to Frontline, AND HAS SEX WITH ALL THE EMPLOYEES.

He finally rolls in at 3am, after battlng the Hypno-Hustler, DOES SOME BLOW AND JERKS OFF TO VICTORIA SECRET CATALOGUES.

I guess, technically, he could have done all of those things while married. Just sayin'.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Get off this already. Seriously. Were you running around the past 20 years writing in all caps "YOU COULD TELL THIS EXACT SAME THING WITH AN UN-MARRIED PETE AND MJ!" No, you weren't. This argument is insane. It's like the people who make this argument would ONLY be satisfied if every-darn-panel-of-the-book showed things ONLY an unmarried Peter could do-- and for him to comment on that exact fact. (Like THAT would make the anti-OMD/BND fans happy.).

Thank you!

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Then he goes to Frontline, AND HAS SEX WITH ALL THE EMPLOYEES.

Even the GUYS?

(not that there's anything WRONG with that...just askin' )

 

[iloveclones]

Of course, because that's what distinguishes unmarried guys (and stories) from married ones: the ability to be non-discriminating.

 

[BlackLantern]

my theory is that a good chunk, not all mind you, of fans hate BND is because MJ represented that fantasy that the nerd can get the hot girl if things fall the right way, Marvel took it away and the fans are now throwing a year plus temper tantrum