Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[Spider-Who?]

RUSH

Hahaha, nice.

 

[Bubonic]

 

[Spider-Who?]

I'm curious...do you think for yourself, or do you just follow what ever juvenile attempt at humorous (yet so ignorant) pictures tell you?

I only ask because I'm genuinely curious - I have not once seen you actually attempt an honest, thought provoking conversation here; it seems you're more inclined to try and induce ragegasms than actually facilitate meaningful discussion, which makes me question your ability to even do so.

Spoiler

(see, I can poke fun, too.)

 

[Bubonic]

I'm honestly lazy and uninterested, there isn't much thought provoking convos to be had with people who will never budge, pretty pictures might make the difference.

Easier to digest for some, caries a lot of information in a compact format.

 

[Harls]

I'm just popping in momentarily to say, despite what my beliefs may be, I hate the word "atheist." It sounds icky to say. I think it's the "eist" part.

 

[Bubonic]

Make's it sound like a disease or something?
Certainly is treated as such by some.

Also I limit post to pictures around here because I've a knack for phrasing things less than delicately and I rather avoid infractions when I can, there are many more thoughtful and intelligent people in this thread which express my feelings better than I could hope to.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Make's it sound like a disease or something?
Certainly is treated as such by some.

I hate that mentality.

Going back to the story I told earlier, about my brother's aunt and uncle, and my sister in law who told me not to tell them because it might cause a problem - that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Me having a belief that is different than their's, and standing up for it, is "causing problems", but them having a belief that is different from mine, and them forcing it down my throat, is just "having my best interests in mind"

That attitude is the quickest thing for me to lose respect for those types of religious people. That attitude is the reason that I've lost nearly all respect for religion in general, and on a more specific level, why I can't be around my aforementioned family members without having my guard up, and consequently, shutting myself off to my own family members.

 

[Bubonic]

^It is a lot to deal with when you are treated as some sort of pariah.

I also see no difference in asking someone to mount an argument of a picture versus me mounting an argument over a piece of literary fiction.

 

[Manic]

There's a question I've always wanted to ask a group of rational atheists: How do you feel about the organized atheists who are (ironically) just as zealous as some nutty Christian groups? Because I swear, seeing atheist billboards and fliers on the street make my eyes roll just as hard as the Christian ones.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Why shouldn't atheist have representation?


Lots of people seem to equate atheism with "nothing". That's not how it works.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

There's a question I've always wanted to ask a group of rational atheists: How do you feel about the organized atheists who are (ironically) just as zealous as some nutty Christian groups? Because I swear, seeing atheist billboards and fliers on the street make my eyes roll just as hard as the Christian ones.

I believe that public religious displays of that type from any group are uncalled for, believers or not

 

[Bill]

Exactly. Totally agree. I haven't heard a good enough response from a believer on this question. If God created us, and is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent...then I don't understand how we have Free Will. If he knows everything from the beginning of the Universe to the end, then we don't have free will. Its already predetermined from God's perspective. Maybe Christians should say that God is not omniscient? Be easier to make the Free Will argument.

I don't know if God's omniscience contradicts our "free" will. It depends on your perspective. I see more of a problem for God to give his perfect creation free will and purposefully negate his intent for them. God's omniscience becomes more problematic when you consider that he knew the outcome and decided to proceed with a course of action that would irrevocably lead to the downfall of humanity. Even more problematic, when considering God's perfection, is why we need to exist at all. As a perfect and omnipotent being, God would have no need for emotions such as love, boredom, or loneliness. He is outside of time or space, and would have no concept of its passage. There is no logical reason for such a God to create anything at all, much less humans, angels and otherworldly beings to begin some war the outcome of which is already known to Him. It's inefficient and sloppy.

If we were created with some intent in mind under the auspices of an omniscient being, then the only logical conclusion is that our current course was predetermined by that being, and we are not to blame for any choice we make since the being knew what choice we would make and that those choices would lead to the fulfillment of a plan put into place long before we were born or created.

It's such a sad statement on the human mind that so many of us buy into such claptrap.

I also consider even the small details such as early customs like tributes and sacrifices. Why would God, a being with infinite knowledge, impart the need on his newly created humans to bring to him offerings of meat? Even the idea of human sacrifice as an atonement for past transgressions is primitive and barbaric. Certainly not the behavior of a God with such a vast amount of knowledge.

 

[DieSmiling]

There's a question I've always wanted to ask a group of rational atheists: How do you feel about the organized atheists who are (ironically) just as zealous as some nutty Christian groups? Because I swear, seeing atheist billboards and fliers on the street make my eyes roll just as hard as the Christian ones.

I roll my eyes at them.

Everyone should make up their own minds, and trying to convert other people to your belief system is just stupid. I'll quietly judge religous people but I certainly won't try to tell them how to think.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I roll my eyes at them.

Everyone should make up their own minds, and trying to convert other people to your belief system is just stupid. I'll quietly judge religous people but I certainly won't try to tell them how to think.

This.

Religious beliefs of any type should be a private affair, kept in your home, or house of worship. Same goes for being a non-believer. Keep it to yourself.

I hate driving around and seeing all the damn Christian billboards I see out here in the south, and though they are closer to my beliefs, I would be just as annoyed to see billboards promoting atheism around town also.

But I'll admit, I'd probably laugh a petty laugh of vindication considering how much crap I get from Christians. I admit to being a rather vindictive person that thinks that people deserve to have their actions come around back on them. Not my most noble trait.

 

[WeasleyIsRKing]

I don't know if God's omniscience contradicts our "free" will. It depends on your perspective. I see more of a problem for God to give his perfect creation free will and purposefully negate his intent for them. God's omniscience becomes more problematic when you consider that he knew the outcome and decided to proceed with a course of action that would irrevocably lead to the downfall of humanity. Even more problematic, when considering God's perfection, is why we need to exist at all. As a perfect and omnipotent being, God would have no need for emotions such as love, boredom, or loneliness. He is outside of time or space, and would have no concept of its passage. There is no logical reason for such a God to create anything at all, much less humans, angels and otherworldly beings to begin some war the outcome of which is already known to Him. It's inefficient and sloppy.

If we were created with some intent in mind under the auspices of an omniscient being, then the only logical conclusion is that our current course was predetermined by that being, and we are not to blame for any choice we make since the being knew what choice we would make and that those choices would lead to the fulfillment of a plan put into place long before we were born or created.

It's such a sad statement on the human mind that so many of us buy into such claptrap.

I also consider even the small details such as early customs like tributes and sacrifices. Why would God, a being with infinite knowledge, impart the need on his newly created humans to bring to him offerings of meat? Even the idea of human sacrifice as an atonement for past transgressions is primitive and barbaric. Certainly not the behavior of a God with such a vast amount of knowledge.

Interesting post Bill, very thought provoking.

I know why God created us, according to Christians. So that we could worship Him. Thats it. The only reason. All that pain, suffering, and death. To worship Him. Of course not everyone does. Some don't even believe He exists. But, I guess it was all worth it, because some do worship Him (If you can't tell, yes that is sarcasm).

 

[bunk]

There's a question I've always wanted to ask a group of rational atheists: How do you feel about the organized atheists who are (ironically) just as zealous as some nutty Christian groups? Because I swear, seeing atheist billboards and fliers on the street make my eyes roll just as hard as the Christian ones.

It depends. Anti-theism isn't really my cup of tea. But, if we're talking about the billboards that are essentially saying "hey, it's okay if you're not a believer," I think it's a good thing. Some honestly don't realize that they aren't alone out there, especially depending on where they live. That doesn't strike me as particularly "nutty."

 

[Dr.]

...I hate the word "atheist." It sounds icky to say. I think it's the "eist" part.

In a loose sense, “atheist” is the opposite of “theist.” The “theist” believes in (a particular conception of) god and the atheist doesn’t. Thus, the “a” prefix denotes a negative or “non.”

So the “eist” that you find icky actually comes from the god part of the word.

 

[boywonder13]

What are your views on Atheism?

Are they admiration, disgust, pity, fear, indifference, curiosity, or something else?

Do you shut yourself off to Atheist rhetoric, or do you find there is more then ample justification supporting this worldview?

Is faithlessness necessarily connected to immorality? Many make that connection, are they wrong?

Would you find a Godless world one not worth living in? Or is the vast complexity of life more then enough to keep you in awe of everything, and the concept of a Godless world with no afterlife encourages you to live your life to the fullest?

Personally I'd be interested in answers, and debate to these and more. Hopefully people will make a concerted effort to keep things respectful and on topic.

For those defending atheism, don't get condescending. For those defending faith, try not to get to emotionally driven, and take it as an opportunity to challenge yourself and your faith.

Here is my two cents as a Christian to answering the OP. My views of atheism are apathetic, and indifferent. Whether someone is atheist or not does not effect my opinion of them, in fact my two best friends are atheist (actually most of mine are, that or agnostic). Nor does the apparent rise of "adherents" or media attention. I've read and watched several presentations by the New Atheists (Dawkins, Harris, etc), so I can't reall tsay if shut myself off. Since i am highly interested in theology, church, and biblical history, I have found many of their statements underwhelming and incorrect, and just downright ignorant of the Christian position. The only worrying thing about some of the outgrowths of atheism is people taking things like Da Vinci Code as history, or promoting some "Science vs. Faith" false dichotomy, which all goes to show that many of these "free thinkers" are not as free thinking (whatever that even means) as they tout themselves to be just and are just like the negative outgrowths of Christianity . I wouldn't say faithless = immoral, and from what I know the Bible agrees with that statement, that (all) humans are given a sense of right and wrong. Would i find a godless world not worth living in? Good question

 

[Heretic]

The Christian concept of free will is absurd. In their holy book, their god interferes with free will over and over and over and over again. Yet, I guess now it never happens? Funny how that works...since if it DID happen...your god would have a lot of explaining to do. Of course, no explanations would come since there has never been a scrap of evidence to support the existence of a god.

 

[JAK®]

The goal of Atheism is that one day nobody will be an atheist. Because there will be no religion to have a lack of belief in.

 

[Bubonic]

I'm curious...do you think for yourself, or do you just follow what ever juvenile attempt at humorous (yet so ignorant) pictures tell you?

You never did mention how that particular image was ignorant or erroneous, you might just be jealous that you can't sum up an argument as eloquently as an image can.

 

[Bill]

Here is my two cents as a Christian to answering the OP. My views of atheism are apathetic, and indifferent. Whether someone is atheist or not does not effect my opinion of them, in fact my two best friends are atheist (actually most of mine are, that or agnostic). Nor does the apparent rise of "adherents" or media attention. I've read and watched several presentations by the New Atheists (Dawkins, Harris, etc), so I can't reall tsay if shut myself off. Since i am highly interested in theology, church, and biblical history, I have found many of their statements underwhelming and incorrect, and just downright ignorant of the Christian position. The only worrying thing about some of the outgrowths of atheism is people taking things like Da Vinci Code as history, or promoting some "Science vs. Faith" false dichotomy, which all goes to show that many of these "free thinkers" are not as free thinking (whatever that even means) as they tout themselves to be just and are just like the negative outgrowths of Christianity . I wouldn't say faithless = immoral, and from what I know the Bible agrees with that statement, that (all) humans are given a sense of right and wrong. Would i find a godless world not worth living in? Good question

Free thinking is simply not approaching evidence with a preconceived notion or a predetermined conclusion. I feel it is almost impossible where humans are concerned as there is always some type of prejudice involved, and no matter how little it may seem, it may taint the conclusion.

I don't think that the Science vs. Faith dichotomy is false, at least depending upon the faith. People tend to rationalize the issues with faith to accommodate Science, but that trivializes the intent of the particular faith involved to such a degree that it is no longer exclusive to the culture that spawned it, and more to do with the preconceptions of the individual who is attempting to reconcile their faith with the findings of Science.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The goal of Atheism is that one day nobody will be an atheist. Because there will be no religion to have a lack of belief in.

Eh, I don't think I believe in that either.

I think that actively trying to prove to someone that their religion is false is just as bad as the religious types trying to actively prove that they, above all other beliefs, are correct.

I want the religious types to keep their religion to themselves, and in the same vein, the atheist types should keep their atheism to themselves as well.

I don't believe in religion as an establishment, but I do know a lot of people whom their religion is very important to them on a personal level, and I think actively trying to destroy that is wrong.

I've stated earlier in this thread that I feel a petty sense of vindication towards those who would impose their beliefs on me without my consent, when their beliefs are attacked and contradicted.

But when agenda is kept private, and not used to push an agenda, I've seen the good things that can come from religion. I don't think it's fair to try to **** all over that.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Thank god for this.

From now on, whenever i'm feeling tired and someone provokes a conversation about religion, i'm just gonna bring up this picture...

The words Nuff Said come to mind.

 

[Rhiannon]

Me having a belief that is different than their's, and standing up for it, is "causing problems", but them having a belief that is different from mine, and them forcing it down my throat, is just "having my best interests in mind"

That attitude is the quickest thing for me to lose respect for those types of religious people. That attitude is the reason that I've lost nearly all respect for religion in general, and on a more specific level, why I can't be around my aforementioned family members without having my guard up, and consequently, shutting myself off to my own family members.

I've grown up in the deep South and I do not have any family members, immediate or extended, who do not consider themselves Christians. It almost isn't an option here; "Where do you go to church?" is considered casual conversation when meeting someone, and people respond awkwardly when I say I don't. I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious anymore to the extent that most of my family is. I really sympathize with you, Nell. It's driven a wedge between me and my grandparents, especially. I saw them today and I can't tell you how many times they throw "Well the Bible says..." at me about every subject from dreams to my husband and me not having kids (I'm only 26, by the way, and they have told me before I'll go to hell if I don't procreate soon).

It's so frustrating, and I better not dare contradict them at a family gathering if I don't want to start a whole heap of drama. I must remain quiet to maintain peace and it leaves me so bitter.