Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[Ghostvirus]

Most atheists don't think about it in such harshly negative terms, nor does atheism even demand a lack of belief of some sort of afterlife. Atheism, at its most basic, only means a lack of belief in deities and nothing more. Many Buddhists (especially Western Buddhists) are either atheistic or agnostic, for example.

True. Didn't look at it from that angle.

 

[redhawk23]

The thing is, whether there is a god or not. Nothing is for certain. Control is a complete illusion.

There is very few things in this life you can actually control.

It is quite certain that I will die. That is a certainty that I can irrefutably count on.

That said, I do not take this life for granted.

There are things that are out of my control, but they are out of anyones control. The very least we can do is attempt to understanding what is going on, because there are at least a few bullets from time to time we can dodge.


And as for loving being an atheist? Its about not dealing in metaphors. There is plenty of things in the world that incite absolute awe without having to make them up. Ive heard arguments against seeking knowledge that it disenchants the world. I greatly disagree. When you study the processes that leads to the formation of stars, or planets, of the chemicals that make up our cells, of how many things threaten at any moment to wipe us out of existence its is fantastic that we exist at all.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

The thing is, whether there is a god or not. Nothing is for certain. Control is a complete illusion.

There is very few things in this life you can actually control.

Understanding and control are two very different things.

I'm not saying that by understanding through science it means people feel in control of life - quite the opposite. It just means people can understand why things happen and how they happen, and therefore not have to fear the unknown.

I live in peace because I know that when I die, it's just over. I do not have to fear or hope for what comes after.

 

[redhawk23]

^Not reflecting your views, just playing devils advocate, but some may point out that in its own way atheism is just as comforting as faith.

 

[moviedoors]

As a child, I was a believer. Let's face it, when you're a kid you take a lot of things at face value.

When I was 11, I was lying in bed just thinking about God and for the first time really pondered the idea of there not being a god. Poof. In an instant, my faith was gone. I more or less had a panic attack that night.

I spent a few years trying to get it back. I prayed to get it back. After a few years, I just gave up and was simply agnostic all the way through college.

I can't put a date on it, but sometime over the last few years, I became a stone cold atheist. And you know what? I've found more peace than I ever did as a believer or a struggling believer. Nary a night goes by that I don't look at the stars awestruck. I'm here because a few billion years ago a star went supernova, creating heavy elements and a huge gas cloud. This gas cloud formed a new star, planetary bodies, complex organic compounds, and eventually, me. I was born of an exploding star. I find that more awesome than the small-minded, ego-centric idea that a personal god created this little blue speck of dust just for me and the other hairless monkeys. The universe is neither benevolent nor malevolent, it just is, and I can't imagine being more lucky than to be conscious and able to appreciate its being.

 

[Ghostvirus]

LOL. this was one of those things that I was interested in debating. Then I went out. Came back having lost interest in the topic again.

Moviedoors - the whole big bang thing is becoming old science. More, & more scientist believe in the mult-verse theory. We are suppsedly the product of 2 universes crashing into each other. Forming a whole new universe.

 

[moviedoors]

Moviedoors - the whole big bang thing is becoming old science. More, & more scientist believe in the mult-verse theory. We are suppsedly the product of 2 universes crashing into each other. Forming a whole new universe.

I wasn't referring to how the universe started, I was referring to how the solar system and everything in it formed, which was by exploding star and nebular gasses.

 

[edubb13]

For me, the realization took a while that I was probably an agnostic. I mean look I'm a young kid from a traditionally "white suburban" town, totally Catholic/Christian. I followed blindly all my life, but I remember my history teacher teaching the class about the Crusades and that period where the Church was corrupt and you could pay your way to heaven... and that was when Christianity was relatively new, compared to now days. I would destroy my family to find this out but there is no way to tell them..

My family was what I believed, was lucky. We found out about the new church's corrupt actions and that they had changed dogmas and was not the same Catholic Church, so we have been doing our own Church services. But then I started reading about Illuminati and the New World Order, (if ANY of you want to label me a conspiracy nut, do some research) and when I thought about all the other religions, and how many similarities there are between the story of Christ and other, OLDER, religions/stories, it was just too coincidental to not be true.

When you think about it, I think the only conclusion is that there IS no God. Well, not necessarily a God but I do not believe in any form of religion now days. I mean, haven't you all thought about it before?? How many Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddists, etc have sat there and thought, like you did, that other religions were stupid for not believing in the God you believe in... Presumably from birth where you were spoon fed the lies of religion. I mean, for all the stories about people seeing Jesus, talking to Jesus, etc, don't you think there are just as many stories of people who have encountered the same thing as Buddah or any other "gods"?

I believe in Spirituality and I don't condescend religious people. I think it can be great for people. But I also believe it shows how powerful our mind is... People literally have increased pain tolerances when they look at a picture of their religious icon.

I think people use religion to give them closure and to seem important in some ways... to make us feel better even. I believe there will be a time when religion fades and athiest/agnostics will not be looked at so negatively/ or as "evil heartless people".

 

[edubb13]

I definitely can see where you're coming from. I have BEEN in the mind frame of a devout catholic. If i were to tell most of my family this they would essentially condemn me to hell. My life would change drastically... For this matter, I do not wish to share this with my mother. I do not feel emotionally distraught by holding it in.. I feel to each their own. I know religion helps people and my mother, so I will leave it at that.

My story is on page 18ish if you would care to read.

 

[edubb13]

I was born into a Roman Catholic family and as I grew up my parents made me go to church. I always hated it, thought it was boring and it was repetitive. And as a child, you can't really think for yourself as much, so you tend to listen to your parents or a higher authority and you believe in it. But gradually as I got older, I just didn't agree or buy into some things the religion entails.

Last year I pretty much decided I was agnostic, but now I consider myslef an atheist. It doesn't bother me that there isn't an afterlife after death. I dont' want to waste time worrying about it. Even though I respect a person's beliefs, it's hard for me to not judge or think of some snide remark whenever God is brought into something. But a second later I have to accept their belief. I just don't get why people think God has everything to do with everything. Belief is fine. Everybody should have a belief, but a belief doesn't equate to religion.

Religion can be a good guide or morals, but you don't need religion to know right from wrong. Despite me going to church in those early years and being taught about God, my parents and my experiences were the sources for my forming and my values. I don't see how you can't be raised with religion and not turn out fine. Plus it doesn't help that issues like gay marriage makes religious people look contradictory. That gets me steamed.

I firmly believe in individualism and choice. There is no one else who makes our decisions except ourselves. We are in control of our lives. God has nothing to do with it. Not one spiritual being that we've only heard about. If people want to believe that, that's fine.

And if there is a God, wouldn't he want us to do things for ourselves to learn? People think he's the answer and solution to their problems.

I've already told my mom I'm an atheist, but I'm afraid of how my dad will react. He was the one who made us go to church, and even if we haven't been to church in four years, my brother and mom also believe in God. Plus with my grandmother passing away who was very religious, I don't think he'll take it very well. I have to tell him sometime. He might think it was his fault but I just have to tell him it's my decision and he had nothing to do with it.

I definitely can see where you're coming from. I have BEEN in the mind frame of a devout catholic. If i were to tell most of my family this they would essentially condemn me to hell. My life would change drastically... For this matter, I do not wish to share this with my mother. I do not feel emotionally distraught by holding it in.. I feel to each their own. I know religion helps people and my mother, so I will leave it at that.

My story is on page 18ish if you would care to read.

 

[edubb13]

^Not reflecting your views, just playing devils advocate, but some may point out that in its own way atheism is just as comforting as faith.

Similar in that they both do comfort us but I believe in different ways.

Where as religion can give you contentment for things such as death "went to heaven, a better place" (ps, doesn't it bother believers and non believers alike that EVERYONE thinks everyone goes to heaven??) and other things happening, "its god's plan, god's will",

My belief in there not being a religion, not necessarily a god, is that A. I will probably not burn for ever for watching porn, and B. I'm in control of my life and that everything does happen for a reason... because other things cause them to happen!!


Where a RELIGIOUS person who survived a near-death experience would thank god and say it was a blessing, a NON religious person would probably say odds are, some people get lucky with things, its just the odds.

 

[edubb13]

I wish all religions would mesh and create on God, who had few rules. Something along the lines as "Do what you want, but don't harm others" and "Love more than you love your self" would do great.

In reality though, I think I shall teach my kids to be spiritual. Honestly though what does that even mean if you don't pray to a God?? But I digress.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

^Not reflecting your views, just playing devils advocate, but some may point out that in its own way atheism is just as comforting as faith.

That's exactly what I was argueing.

That being an Atheist CAN be something you love, CAN be something that makes you happy and comforts you.

But it's not something that you accept JUST BECAUSE of the comfort it provides.

Like I've said before I don't see being Atheist as a choice anyone makes, it just happens to certain people when their logical minds put all the information together and come to a conlusion that is then obvious to them... God doesn't exist.

Yes, it is possible to be happy about it, and to even find comfort in the reliability in science.

But it's not something you embrace in order to find comfort, which I think religion sometimes is.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How many Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddists, etc have sat there and thought, like you did, that other religions were stupid for not believing in the God you believe in... Presumably from birth where you were spoon fed the lies of religion. I mean, for all the stories about people seeing Jesus, talking to Jesus, etc, don't you think there are just as many stories of people who have encountered the same thing as Buddah or any other "gods"?

I believe in Spirituality and I don't condescend religious people.

Buddah is not a God. Buddhists do not believe in a God. Some forms of buddhism encorporate ideas of reincarnation, but others who try to live by only the earliest of Buddha's recorded teachings (as it is feared later ones were altered to fit with the current religious trends) don't believe in a afterlife or even a soul.

Buddhism is a widely misunderstood philosophy that is lumped in with other religions.

It is perfectly possible to be a Buddhist Atheist. My dad is a buddhist monk, and he is a Buddhist Atheist.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Double Post

 

[Bubonic]

 

[Ghostvirus]

I wasn't referring to how the universe started, I was referring to how the solar system and everything in it formed, which was by exploding star and nebular gasses.

Ah, right. Sorry about that.

 

[Knight Rise]

you do realize Satan is defeated in Revelation? if Adam and Eve had not eaten the Fruit of Knowledge, there wouldn't be evil. its knowledge that separates the connection to God. not saying you're wrong, but that chart is a bit offensive

 

[Franklin Richards]

As offensive as being blamed for our Grandfather's sins?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

you do realize Satan is defeated in Revelation? if Adam and Eve had not eaten the Fruit of Knowledge, there wouldn't be evil. its knowledge that separates the connection to God. not saying you're wrong, but that chart is a bit offensive

You know there are some parts of the bible I quite like (mostly the new testament, as I think there is merit behind a lot of what Jesus 'said'), but the Adam and Eve story is not one of them.

Discouraging people from questioning, from wanting to know more, feels like a scare tactic to make people into clueless obedient sheep.

We can only live in paradise if we do not get tempted by knowledge?

Imo that's just ridiculous.

 

[Knight Rise]

im not saying knowledge is the core of all evil, but thats just where it seemed to start. i felt we were put on this Earth for a reason, not just for biological happenings. theres gotta be SOME reason we ended up here, and i understand some science does try to lead back to God.

 

[Franklin Richards]

It sounds like editing by a bunch of men trying to control the populace.

 

[Franklin Richards]

im not saying knowledge is the core of all evil, but thats just where it seemed to start. i felt we were put on this Earth for a reason, not just for biological happenings. theres gotta be SOME reason we ended up here, and i understand some science does try to lead back to God.

Why does there "gotta be SOME reason"?

 

[Bubonic]

you do realize Satan is defeated in Revelation? if Adam and Eve had not eaten the Fruit of Knowledge, there wouldn't be evil. its knowledge that separates the connection to God. not saying you're wrong, but that chart is a bit offensive

I'm just keeping up appearance, I was hoping it wouldn't actually be offensive although I understand how these charts can be incomplete if not inaccurate at times.

I love how we are eternally plagued because we dared eat the fruit of knowledge. I think that little parable is very telling. Be an unquestioning sheep or you'll be damned is basically what I get from it.

 

[Knight Rise]

Why does there "gotta be SOME reason"?

you feel you were just anything else put on this Earth? sorry i just love how much humanity has grown over the years and how it has meaning to us, a moral of right and wrong. to me, personally not saying you're wrong, thats not something that can be thought of without reason