Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[redhawk23]

A few friends and I started a chapter of the Secular Student Alliance here at SLU. We're currently seeking more members (we have about 7) and beginning the process of becoming a Chartered Student Organization meaning gaining access to university facilities and funding. We expect to meet with at least a little opposition, SLU being Jesuit and all, but hopefully eventually we'll make it through. There's a lot of other groups around that don't exactly fit so clearly with catholicism or the "Jesuit Mission."

 

[Frontier]

I always find it amazing how extremes become the definition of religions or even non-religions.

Extreme atheists are the mental definition of all such for most peoples. Just as extreme christians the mental definition of such for most peoples, and extreme muslims and so on.

I mean, I'm an atheist -- more or less (it's complicated!) and I don't shy away from such in the slightest. But I realize there are atheists out there, the extreme ones, who 'scare' people and give the rest a bad name. Same as extreme christians or extreme muslims.

 

[8wid]

The many hymns sung, passages and quotes from the Bible, and prayers given by President Obama, Biden, Bush, and more at the 9/11 memorials really annoys me. I thing any candidate of political office in the United States has no place leading those at public events. It also shows me how much of religion still influences the path of the War on Terror, and not at all positively.

 

[SuperFerret]

Really?

 

[8wid]

^ Yep. It's funny too God is always asked to take the side of U.S. military in overseas wars, to protect the United States at home, and everyone who died tragically is always assumed to be in Heaven by the victims. Sounds too much like the Crusades to me to asking a supreme being to intervene in a war and why does no one who died in 9/11 ever go to Hell besides Osama Bin Laden and other radical Muslims?

 

[WildcatNC]

The many hymns sung, passages and quotes from the Bible, and prayers given by President Obama, Biden, Bush, and more at the 9/11 memorials really annoys me. I thing any candidate of political office in the United States has no place leading those at public events. It also shows me how much of religion still influences the path of the War on Terror, and not at all positively.

I actually don't think Obama is as religious as he makes out. He just thinks he has to act like it.

 

[8wid]

I actually don't think Obama is as religious as he makes out. He just thinks he has to act like it.

I think he's agnostic, but many think he is a socialist Muslim because his father was. Yet his mother was agnostic and he seems to be more like that himself. I'm surprised the Tea Party didn't protest him from doing the World Trade Center Memorial speech. That's right Glenn Beck isn't around anymore....

 

[SuperFerret]

^ Yep. It's funny too God is always asked to take the side of U.S. military in overseas wars, to protect the United States at home, and everyone who died tragically is always assumed to be in Heaven by the victims. Sounds too much like the Crusades to me to asking a supreme being to intervene in a war and why does no one who died in 9/11 ever go to Hell besides Osama Bin Laden and other radical Muslims?

Ignorance is found just about everywhere, and the fact that you're blinded by the hate that some have that you can't understand how people can take solace in their faith says to me that you should take a look in the mirror there.

 

[8wid]

Ignorance is found just about everywhere, and the fact that you're blinded by the hate that some have that you can't understand how people can take solace in their faith says to me that you should take a look in the mirror there.

Whose ignorant and hates the religious? People can take solace in their faith, but there are no spirits or gods that will answer them and it's not very healthy to depend on this form of expression for grief.

 

[WildcatNC]

I think he's agnostic, but many think he is a socialist Muslim because his father was. Yet his mother was agnostic and he seems to be more like that himself. I'm surprised the Tea Party didn't protest him from doing the World Trade Center Memorial speech. That's right Glenn Beck isn't around anymore....

I agree. I think the "Birther/secret muslim" crowd is what got him all overboard about it. He thinks he needs to overcompensate because of perception.

 

[SuperFerret]

Whose ignorant and hates the religious?

*ahem*

People can take solace in their faith, but there are no spirits or gods that will answer them and it's not very healthy to depend on this form of expression for grief.

That's not "hate", but it's pretty damn ignorant.

 

[8wid]

*ahem*



That's not "hate", but it's pretty damn ignorant.

It's not healthy for a logical understanding of the universe by its nature and no religious belief systems have been debunked because their creation myths cannot account for evolution or the scientific theory of universal creation. That's my basis.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Im a atheist but I understand why these people feel the way they do. It gives them comfort in thinking that their love ones are safe and in a better place. It's probably more healthy than thinking that their love ones last moments are their deaths and they'll never be in a better place. It makes me wish their were a heaven.

 

[SuperFerret]

It's not healthy for a logical understanding of the universe by its nature and no religious belief systems have been debunked because their creation myths cannot account for evolution or the scientific theory of universal creation. That's my basis.

Who are you to say what's "healthy" or not when it comes to personal belief? Just because you feel that way doesn't make it the truth for everyone. Are you serious that you can't see the close-mindedness in what you're saying here?

 

[WildcatNC]

Im a atheist but I understand why these people feel the way they do. It gives them comfort in thinking that their love ones are safe and in a better place. It's probably more healthy than thinking that their love ones last moments are their deaths and they'll never be in a better place. It makes me wish their were a heaven.

Some people prefer comfortable illusions to harsh truths. I agree that people should be free to choose though.

To me the only honest people are Agnostics.

 

[8wid]

Double post!

 

[8wid]

Who are you to say what's "healthy" or not when it comes to personal belief? Just because you feel that way doesn't make it the truth for everyone. Are you serious that you can't see the close-mindedness in what you're saying here?

It can be healthy emotionally, but intellectually and even physically it cannot be truly because it requires a truthful search of fact of the universe, which religion refuses to do when it says the universe was created by a supreme being and obeys the rules it "gives."

 

[SuperFerret]

It can be healthy emotionally, but intellectually and even physically it cannot be truly because it requires a truthful search of fact of the universe, which religion refuses to do when it says the universe was created by a supreme being and obeys the rules it "gives."

I disagree with what you wrote on multiple levels. Firstly, you're lumping all beliefs under the word "religion" and aren't paying any mind that any number of religions might not follow what you say it says. Second, how many people are really engaging in any type of search concerning the objective truth of the universe? I'd wager that 99% (at least) of the human population is just going to find their own subjective truths and live their life according to that, and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Thirdly, physically?

 

[random_havoc]

The many hymns sung, passages and quotes from the Bible, and prayers given by President Obama, Biden, Bush, and more at the 9/11 memorials really annoys me. I thing any candidate of political office in the United States has no place leading those at public events. It also shows me how much of religion still influences the path of the War on Terror, and not at all positively.

So you think the leader of the nation shouldn't be allowed to publicly express his faith, even though it's a faith that's shared by over 80% of the nation's population?
Wow, holy intolerance batman.

 

[random_havoc]

I disagree with what you wrote on multiple levels. Firstly, you're lumping all beliefs under the word "religion" and aren't paying any mind that any number of religions might not follow what you say it says. Second, how many people are really engaging in any type of search concerning the objective truth of the universe? I'd wager that 99% (at least) of the human population is just going to find their own subjective truths and live their life according to that, and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Thirdly, physically?

Yeah, I was wondering how exactly he'd try to justify that one too.

 

[8wid]

I disagree with what you wrote on multiple levels. Firstly, you're lumping all beliefs under the word "religion" and aren't paying any mind that any number of religions might not follow what you say it says. Second, how many people are really engaging in any type of search concerning the objective truth of the universe? I'd wager that 99% (at least) of the human population is just going to find their own subjective truths and live their life according to that, and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Thirdly, physically?

Belief system, religion, faith whatever they're all irrational and are essentially the same. And as you just stated most people already don't see an objective understanding of the universe, largely contributed to by religions and faiths. Thus they don't appreciate all elements of science and learn about the physical world and universe as a result very often or do so in limitation.

So you think the leader of the nation shouldn't be allowed to publicly express his faith, even though it's a faith that's shared by over 80% of the nation's population?
Wow, holy intolerance batman.

While in office every member of the U.S. government should remain neutral while in GOVERNMENT held ceremonies. If they want to give a personal church sermon on TV that's fine as long as tax payer dollars stay out of it. Even if Christianity dominates the American population it doesn't mean it's any unequal than the real world Jedi.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Obama wasn't using tax payers money to say a prayer today.

 

[SuperFerret]

Belief system, religion, faith whatever they're all irrational and are essentially the same. And as you just stated most people already don't see an objective understanding of the universe, largely contributed to by religions and faiths. Thus they don't appreciate all elements of science and learn about the physical world and universe as a result very often or do so in limitation.

Ah, so you're all stimulus/response or you went out and earned every bit of knowledge you have first hand? You don't have any beliefs in the scientific method or any faith in what you've been told, I assume, since that would be irrational, and obviously, as a human being you're never irrational.

Get off your high horse, pal.

 

[8wid]

You're misinterpreting my definition of irrational. Think of something not empirical. And I do believe in the scientific method because it is empirical and objective, that's what religious beliefs prevent to some degree or another.


No, but using Air Force One, Secret Service agents, high-tech security measures, the crew to broadcast it on C-Span, etc. is a use of tax payer dollars used at a public ceremony. I would be perfectly fine if he quoted a source that was not a religious text at all.

 

[SuperFerret]

I see no problem with it. I'm all for separation of church and state, but you're basically getting annoyed by a eulogy.