Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 3

[Ajendo]

Why is that Christians and Muslims don't realize that with the exceptions of believing a certain prophet was the son of God and that the exact existence of God might be just a little different in name and form, that they have basically the same rules and penalties for punishment of sin, yet the Christians of the West act like their more civilized
because they follow less of the
Bible's exact teachings and act
more secular than the Muslims do?

Anyone who thinks the god of Islam is the same as Jahova either doesn't know the difference or just has a lazy understanding.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The Abahamic religions have the same God but different beliefs.

I know it's a very loose connection. But it's like the Greek/Roman gods. Different names for things and stories, but essentially the same gods. Doubly so for Islam, because their doctrine is that, while Judaism and Christianity have certain truths to it, only the Qu'ran, given to Muhammad by God, via Gabriel, is the only true and restored religion.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, maybe the Abrahamic god has schizophrenia, that would explain the discrepancies.

 

[enterthemadness]

Well, maybe the Abrahamic god has schizophrenia, that would explain the discrepancies.

I love this...

 

[8wid]

Anyone who thinks the god of Islam is the same as Jahova either doesn't know the difference or just has a lazy understanding.

It's the same deity, he is just perceived differently. Muslims believe that Christians and Jews did hear from the same god through prophets, but just that they didn't get the message right and really turned away from him. Things like he chose a different son of Abraham to prophecy for God, Hell is not an eternal punishment, Jesus was not the son of God etc. cause differences like this in his personality and form.

 

[enterthemadness]

I wonder what religions outside of the Christian faith think of us Pagans...probably isn't a good view...

 

[KalMart]

It's the same deity, he is just perceived differently. Muslims believe that Christians and Jews did hear from the same god through prophets, but just that they didn't get the message right and really turned away from him. Things like he chose a different son of Abraham to prophecy for God, Hell is not an eternal punishment, Jesus was not the son of God etc. cause differences like this in his personality and form.

Jus a few little things.

 

[redhawk23]

I find this amuzing, just because I know so many folks my age who, why I may agree with them on philosophical levels, I cannot stand due to their attitudes.

 

[KalMart]

[YT]mbSwKmoBRl8[/YT]


http://www.youtube.com/user/DiscoveringReligion

 

[DBryan]

That video was so, so good.

 

[KalMart]

He has a pretty good series of stuff that you can check out on his channel.

 

[KalMart]

[YT]oxjOG0uYSWY[/YT]

 

[EML420]

That first video was good I subed to the channel and any time Hitchens is talking is about religion is gold.

 

[KalMart]

One would think in a world such as today's...with how much we have advanced scientifically, intellectually, how much more we know on even a basic social level about the world around us and ourselves...and especially in an advanced Nation like the US....it shouldn't be so difficult to understand how misled we've been by superstitions such as religion. In some ways, science and mathematics (which is only part of the key) is very much like the work of magic and otherworldliness for some...it goes in one ear, sounds kinda' neat and brainy, but then pretty much leaves the other. But that's not nearly as disturbing as someone who does have the capacity to understand the logic and details of it, but can't accept it on principle. That despite the rationale that in other areas of life one has no eversion to, it must somehow be false because of something else that can't be proven, quantified, or calculated via anything but cultural hearsay.

Well, to be fair, it's easier for many atheists because the non-existence of God or any other supernatural sentient power/creator doesn't threaten them emotionally like it does a theist. In a lot of ways, it could be like telling someone that their parents aren't really their parents, and that they never loved you..they're just fulfilling some duty or act that they're getting paid for. You could have a lot of evidence and support for this revelation...birth certificates, signed contracts, even taped confessions...but someone will still just not want to believe it emotionally, and that could be a very powerful thing. It allows people to skirt truths and rationality as love will do time and time again. Indeed, you could very much see someone agreeing to 'live the lie' if they could somehow just ensure that the lies would be all they hear...if the parents keep pretending to love them, they'll keep pretending that it's genuine.

I think a lot is paralleled by the idea of an existing God.....companionship, needed authority, personal assurance/comfort, forgiveness, etc. It's very difficult to feel that one has to let that go as not being 'real'. Hence the important thing with atheism, as it would be for many other things, is not to predicate it upon ridicule....because that's not a ridiculous need and human condition. Atheism should not be out to destroy the lives of theists or leave them in a state of emotional loss or emptiness. Those needs still exist be one religious or not. I would hope that one would accept that these needs and virtues can be ultimately found within us and eachother as people, and not some supernatural authority who apparently gave them to us. It's important that that is communicated...true freedom and independent thought, not ridicule. The hard truth...the responsibility...ultimately lies with us as both practitioners and creators. I truly believe that understanding and shedding the confines of religion is our next great step in evolution.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Indoctrination is a large part of it. When you are born into something, it's very hard to "escape". Indeed, most people have the religious beliefs they do because they are raised with them.

The only difference is that we now know a lot more than we did in the past, and we don't need gods.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Here's a thing that got me thinking. Today in History class, my teacher described the reasoning behind implementing the idea of religion in the weakest part of the world and not a more advanced civilization like China or Japan. The saying was something of the weak chain is also among the strong ones and the weak chain cannot break or else the stronger ones will fall apart. I have doubt in this and I think there is probably a more reasonable explanation to show why this is such a hole to introduce religion in the first place. I mean why introduce religion in such a barbaric and uncivilized world and not somewhere more advanced in the first place?

 

[Doctor Jones]

I was watching a Darren brown interview with him saying how everyone is an atheist in some ways. That there are other religions that Christians do not believe in. Which is so true.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well China is probably quite religious, the secular state just doesn't tolerate religion, since it could pose a threat to the state's influence. There is evidence that there may be as many as hundred million Christians in China. China may have one of the largest Christian population in the world. But, people are afraid to practice their religion in public.

The Japanese are more indifferent than atheist. Surprisingly, for such an extreme culture they have taken a pretty laid back approach to religion. They just don't care.

 

[KalMart]

Here's a thing that got me thinking. Today in History class, my teacher described the reasoning behind implementing the idea of religion in the weakest part of the world and not a more advanced civilization like China or Japan. The saying was something of the weak chain is also among the strong ones and the weak chain cannot break or else the stronger ones will fall apart. I have doubt in this and I think there is probably a more reasonable explanation to show why this is such a hole to introduce religion in the first place. I mean why introduce religion in such a barbaric and uncivilized world and not somewhere more advanced in the first place?

The less they know, the easier they are to fool. You'd have a much harder time convincing people that stories of ghosts and magic are real if their capacity for rationality and logic are higher.

 

[redhawk23]

From talking to the Chinese students hear at SLU, of which there are several hundred, I've heard that people are pretty much free to practice whatever religion they want, and there is a fair amount of religious diversity among those who are religious, its just that most people aren't at all. These students are primarily from around Shanghai though, if that might influence their perceptions.

 

[Thundercrack85]

From talking to the Chinese students hear at SLU, of which there are several hundred, I've heard that people are pretty much free to practice whatever religion they want, and there is a fair amount of religious diversity among those who are religious, its just that most people aren't at all. These students are primarily from around Shanghai though, if that might influence their perceptions.

Ask them about the underground house churches. Those caught preaching without a license are sent to labor camps.

Unless you belong to a church sanctioned by the government, you can't worship. In 2004, 300 Christians caught attending an unregistered church were sent to jail. In 2001, one Christian leader was sentenced to death. He later had his sentence commuted due to international outrage. Persecution is still rampant, especially outside of major cities.

But it doesn't surprise that many Chinese people are unaware of such things. Given the state's tight control of the media.

 

[8wid]

Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

 

[enterthemadness]

Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

....Ooooh...

 

[KalMart]

I'm not one to tell someone how to raise their kids....but they gotta' stop teaching them that crap.

 

[Lighthouse]

I've made the decision to raise my kids on the Gods and Daedrics of the Elder Scrolls.