Avengers: Age of Ultron vs. X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Spitfire]

Not bad but it makes the MCU seem weirdly sexless to me. What prohibits Banner from having a love interest? It's organic and makes sense that an attachment might form between Avengers. It also provides an opportunity for some back story from Widow as she shares some of her dark past with someone. She never confides.

Do you remember when the first rumour about the romance broke and it was claimed that Banner was 'actively dating'? My first thought was that he was being led astray by his former playboy ScienceBros Tony who was introducing him to lots of women (an awkward looking Banner surrounded by supermodels at the party ). A 'sexless' MCU isn't necessary but when the romantic pair have better chemistry with their friends (Stark, Barton and Cap) then somethings wrong.

But this is my key issue with AoU as many of the stories could have been so much better and it's actually not difficult to imagine better scenarios. Widow for example has never had a decent conversation with another female character (just brief exchanges with Pepper in IM2 and Hill in TWS). Couldn't she have discussed her fears with Laura Barton? Or have Widow be the one who brings the twins onto the team instead of Cap? SW hurts her with the vision, but Widow recognises that SW is making mistakes like she did and offers the alternative option (instead of Cap)? This would have been better for the Korea scene than her 'beep beep' roadrunner impressions and kidnap by Ultron.

I also don't understand why Marvel kept any of the cave scene if it didn't work. Maybe shoot a different scene where Thor revisits the church from CA:TFA where the tesseract was found and finds old manuscripts describing the stones? Something simple and easy to follow? Again, there were other possibly better options.

But I didn't mind Klaw and really enjoyed QS (damn you Whedon!).

 

[marvelrobbins]

singer said back in 2011 he wanted to use quicksilver in films.You could even make case quicksilver was one of prisoners In Origins.

besides it takes time to do a rewrite of script to replace juggernaut with
quicksilver,cast an actor and make the deal.

Singer has changed things on the fly with X_Men films before.It was during filming of x2 he decered to end film with jean's sacriface.Famke janssen learned about this day they was filming muserum scene.

If singer was justing giving when the f-finger why not use scarlet witch too.

and Singer did better quicksilvert:

 

[Filmfreak]

People tend to forget that Singer announced his version of Quicksilver just a couple of weeks after Whedon did. I highly doubt anyone can rewrite a script and find a suitable actor in only ten days time, for a movie that had already started filming, even if that's how the movie business works, which is not.

Now what is a more plausible exlpanation is that both studios knew that they were going to use them in the near future hence the deal that they made for the rights and they sat down and talk long before any annoncement was made.

It's very possible that Whedon had the idea first because QS wasn't in early draft of DOFP but at this point it's pure speculation and it could very much be the other way around.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Would definitely have taken more time to audition for the role, choose and actor, have the contracts drawn up & had both parties agree to the terms, if they didn't have to re-negotiate and draw up new contracts once or more than had elapsed

The previous X-Men movie? You mean X-3?

First Class in 2011

It's very possible that Whedon had the idea first because QS wasn't in early draft of DOFP but at this point it's pure speculation and it could very much be the other way around.

Could be Whedon heard they were casting for the role in X-Men Days of Future Past and he was inspired to use the character too. Who knows

 

[TeeKay]

Well to be fair QS was already established in the X men films when he appeared in X men origins: wolverine.

 

[Erzengel]

If Singer had Quicksilver wanted to use Quicksilver since First Class, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He never has come off as spiteful from anything I've read.

 

[Erzengel]

Well to be fair QS was already established in the X men films when he appeared in X men origins: wolverine.

I forgot about that, then again, I wish I could forget about that whole entire movie.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

^ Yeah not much to remember fondly with that. Though this scene was awesome

If Singer had Quicksilver wanted to use Quicksilver since First Class, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He never has come off as spiteful from anything I've read.

That's the thing. None of the filmmakers from any studio (Fox, Sony, Marvel, WB ect..) have come off spiteful from what I've seen. They all just seem interested in making the best movies they can.

 

[TeeKay]

That scene was cool as ****!

 

[TeeKay]

Do you remember when the first rumour about the romance broke and it was claimed that Banner was 'actively dating'? My first thought was that he was being led astray by his former playboy ScienceBros Tony who was introducing him to lots of women (an awkward looking Banner surrounded by supermodels at the party ). A 'sexless' MCU isn't necessary but when the romantic pair have better chemistry with their friends (Stark, Barton and Cap) then somethings wrong.

But this is my key issue with AoU as many of the stories could have been so much better and it's actually not difficult to imagine better scenarios. Widow for example has never had a decent conversation with another female character (just brief exchanges with Pepper in IM2 and Hill in TWS). Couldn't she have discussed her fears with Laura Barton? Or have Widow be the one who brings the twins onto the team instead of Cap? SW hurts her with the vision, but Widow recognises that SW is making mistakes like she did and offers the alternative option (instead of Cap)? This would have been better for the Korea scene than her 'beep beep' roadrunner impressions and kidnap by Ultron.

I also don't understand why Marvel kept any of the cave scene if it didn't work. Maybe shoot a different scene where Thor revisits the church from CA:TFA where the tesseract was found and finds old manuscripts describing the stones? Something simple and easy to follow? Again, there were other possibly better options.

But I didn't mind Klaw and really enjoyed QS (damn you Whedon!).

Were you actually bothered by Ultron kidnapping Natasha?

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Do you remember when the first rumour about the romance broke and it was claimed that Banner was 'actively dating'? My first thought was that he was being led astray by his former playboy ScienceBros Tony who was introducing him to lots of women (an awkward looking Banner surrounded by supermodels at the party ). A 'sexless' MCU isn't necessary but when the romantic pair have better chemistry with their friends (Stark, Barton and Cap) then somethings wrong.

But this is my key issue with AoU as many of the stories could have been so much better and it's actually not difficult to imagine better scenarios. Widow for example has never had a decent conversation with another female character (just brief exchanges with Pepper in IM2 and Hill in TWS). Couldn't she have discussed her fears with Laura Barton? Or have Widow be the one who brings the twins onto the team instead of Cap? SW hurts her with the vision, but Widow recognises that SW is making mistakes like she did and offers the alternative option (instead of Cap)? This would have been better for the Korea scene than her 'beep beep' roadrunner impressions and kidnap by Ultron.

I also don't understand why Marvel kept any of the cave scene if it didn't work. Maybe shoot a different scene where Thor revisits the church from CA:TFA where the tesseract was found and finds old manuscripts describing the stones? Something simple and easy to follow? Again, there were other possibly better options.

But I didn't mind Klaw and really enjoyed QS (damn you Whedon!).

No I actually didn't know that about Banner. I try to avoid spoilers as much as possible about movies I want to see so I steered clear of the Age of Ultron forums until the film was released.

I understand that all of this is your opinion. But personally I'm pretty happy with the film we got. Could it have been better? Maybe but I haven't seen that film and none of these proposed scenarios you mention sound better to me honestly. How much time were they going to linger at the Bartons for Widow to have this conversation with Hawkeye's wife? That would have bogged down the pacing. It was more critical that we get dialog between Clint and Laura and build Hawkeye's character further (a character that got sacrificed in the first film). The scene between Rogers and Stark was also great. I wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice any of these scenes for a girl chat. I'm probably in the minority but I like how Whedon killed two birds with one stone in his narrative by joining Widow and Hulk's story. And whether you liked the arc, Johansson and Ruffalo acted their parts extremely well. Widow's first lullaby was quite sensual.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Cap bringing the twins on the team? They had a loose alliance after what they felt was Ultron's betrayal but never really joined - at least that didn't seem official until Hawkeye's awesome speech to Wanda. None of those are things I would have wanted to lose.

And lastly, regarding Thor's subplot - I wish it could have been flushed out a bit more but I understand why it was cut in the context of this film. But we see just enough and it serves to visually connect the dots quite quickly. Why would manuscripts about all six Infinity Stones be located with the Tesseract or anywhere on Earth? I would think that knowledge of that kind of power would be kept as far from Earth as possible and not kept with any one stone. And without a vision of some sort how would Thor know about the Power Stone from Guardians of the Galaxy? And lastly am I the only one who thought that it was a super cool way to come up with the name for the Vision?? (When Roy Thomas introduced him he had basically resurrected the Golden Age hero of the same name but there's really no reason that he be called that.)

The movie was so dense that if you removed one brick, everything would come crashing down. If they had cut Thors sublot it wouldn't have made sense for him to come back to the tower and awaken Vision and explain the stuff about the Infinity Stones. It would have been a wtf moment and a huge plot hole. Also we got to see Thor generate lightning without Mljonir.

Yeah! Awesome sauce!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

As far as the whole Quicksilver thing you revisionists are funny. The timeline is this: Whedon says I'm using QS. Fox says no! Wait! We're using Quicksilver. Nanana boo boo.

Singer even tweeted "Before he was an Avenger...." when he announced the revision to the script.

And it's funny that you say they would have to had rushed the script to squeeze him in because yeah it's obvious they did exactly that because the writing is lazy as hell.

And he's not a better Quicksilver. Not in my book. Not by a long shot. He's not even Quicksilver. Peter is Quicksilver in name only. Basically some quirky dude with the same power set. The whole "my mother knew a guy" line was cringeworthy and shameless fan appeasement. And his whole look still blows chunks. I assume a lot of folks here read the comics and if so I'm astonished that those same people think that was a good version of Quicksilver. He's not even recognizable to me. I watched Age of Ultron and the first thing I thought was: Now that is Quicksilver!

But hey different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

 

[starscream22]

singer said back in 2011 he wanted to use quicksilver in films.You could even make case quicksilver was one of prisoners In Origins.

besides it takes time to do a rewrite of script to replace juggernaut with
quicksilver,cast an actor and make the deal.

Singer has changed things on the fly with X_Men films before.It was during filming of x2 he decered to end film with jean's sacriface.Famke janssen learned about this day they was filming muserum scene.

If singer was justing giving when the f-finger why not use scarlet witch too.

and Singer did better quicksilvert:

Nope, Pietro was the better Pietro t:

 

[starscream22]

 

[4miles]

As far as the whole Quicksilver thing you revisionists are funny. The timeline is this: Whedon says I'm using QS. Fox says no! Wait! We're using Quicksilver. Nanana boo boo.

Singer even tweeted "Before he was an Avenger...." when he announced the revision to the script.

And it's funny that you say they would have to had rushed the script to squeeze him in because yeah it's obvious they did exactly that because the writing is lazy as hell.

And he's not a better Quicksilver. Not in my book. Not by a long shot. He's not even Quicksilver. Peter is Quicksilver in name only. Basically some quirky dude with the same power set. The whole "my mother knew a guy" line was cringeworthy and shameless fan appeasement. And his whole look still blows chunks. I assume a lot of folks here read the comics and if so I'm astonished that those same people think that was a good version of Quicksilver. He's not even recognizable to me. I watched Age of Ultron and the first thing I thought was: Now that is Quicksilver!

But hey different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Amen! You could have just named DOFP Quicksilver "Speed Boy" and it would have made absolutely no difference. Don't get me wrong, it was a really cool scene but that is all it was. Unfortunately I kinda expected no less. The entire X verse by Fox is just a mess of mostly horrible interpretations of their comic counterparts. They are entertaining films but I am holding out for a truly great X Men film that has fun with these great characters while being respectful to the source material and I refuse to accept anything less. I want to see Cyclops in full costume and Havok actually being his brother ( and the right age) , and the Starjammers damnit! Imagine the fun. It can be Fox or Marvel, but please do the characters justice.

 

[4miles]

Damn, I go to sleep and this thread blows up! I am actually using a computer right now instead of my smart phone like usual, so I get to spend time going through the last few pages, and engage in this lovely chat with you all.



Uh, seems to me you're reaching pretty far there, care to elaborate? Because the Ultron Army, while being drones, were Ultron. He could communicate and assimilate control of each one whenever he wanted, and did so. The Sentinels had NO personality whatsoever, literally!



A lot of posts have already gone into detail how, while those scenes do plant seeds for things to come, they are not totally exclusive from Age of Ultron.

Like so:


I didn't quite grasp it all the first viewing, but the Vision is the main point of those scenes, even though they allude to the future.



You've said this a couple times, and have yet to provide a suitable replacement scenario. We learned about this character, he wasn't just a nameless face, and through him we get some insight into Tony Stark, and Ultron as well. What does his relation to stark have to do with a setting up Black Panther? Nothing. I mean, who in the general audience even knows that this character is reappearing later, besides us? Like Quicksilver mentioning "His mom used to know a guy", throwaway line for those in the know. Think they will follow up with that at all? Doubtful. Was it a set-up? Yes. Was it unnecessary? No, because we learned from his inclusion. If we did not have an announcement for Black Panther, would we be having this conversation? No. It would just be "Oh neat! We know that dude!"



To clarify, my discussion is now, any other character would have improved that scene; which seemed to be the claim you were making, if I haven't misunderstood.



Seems pretty similar to me, we learned a little bit about Thanos, his relationship with other characters, and we'll see him again later.





We never see Quicksilver again, he comes, he does what he needs to do, he gets an action sequence, he goes. We know less about him than we do about Klaw. Both supporting characters, both serve the purpose they are intended for in the narrative. How is one better than the other? Because Quicksilver gets an action scene? Did the Avengers need to fight with Klaw too to make it worth our while? Doesn't matter that we get two action scenes spinning right out of his appearance?

-----

As far as the formula of each franchise, I don't think we can deny there is a formula for any of these comic book movies. It isn't exactly unprecedented to have an idea what to expect from James Bond, Batman, Jurassic Park, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

You make an excellent point with klaw. The biggest mistake Marvel has made in my opinion is announcing the film plan for the next 5 years. Now people are saying Klaw is only a set up for the Black Panther when if we did not know this film was coming, everyone would be getting excited for these Easter eggs. Wow, Klaw and Wakanda, do you think we will see Black Panther? In truth Klaw is a set up for that movie while also being used wisely in AOU.

 

[Flint Marko]

Actually it is sloppy. But Quicksilver did play an actual purpose for being in the film. Spending 10 minutes with the character paid off in the Pentagon. Klaw has no reason to be in the movie. He is introduced as a major big bad who has a grudge against Tony Stark, he is played by a beloved character actor, and then he does nothing. It just felt like the movie was wasting valuable time and halting the pace so we could waste time with something irrelevant to the story at hand.

But it did not derail the story at hand, and in fact the scenes he was in moved it along. Vibranium was a key element in this movie, and Klaw's entire schtick is that he is seeking out Vibranium. It makes sense, and again, it was not a detriment to the story.
This is nitpicking at it's finest.

Let's just call it what it is. People like what they like. But then they have to come up with convoluted ways to convert their subjective opinions into supposedly "objective" assertions.

I'm the same. Will readily admit Fox have made some turds in the past, like all studios. Like you guys and most others I don't hold their past errors against current projects.

Some turds stink more than others. I'd be interested in you trying to make the argument that any MCU film is on the same level as Daredevil, X-men Origins Wolverine, any FF movie, I could keep going.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

THOR. THE. DARK. WORLD.


The entirety of AGENTS OF SHIELD.

 

[DA_Champion]

THOR. THE. DARK. WORLD.


The entirety of AGENTS OF SHIELD.

Can you explain the context of your post?

ETA: NM i see it, you are responding to cyclops.

I agree, the dark world is not better than Daredevil or Fantastic Four.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's fairly subjective as well. I think the First Avenger is a truly terrible movie (aside from Peggy) but most don't agree.

I think Netflix might be the future of Marvel's critical success.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's fairly subjective as well. I think the First Avenger is a truly terrible movie (aside from Peggy) but most don't agree.

I think Netflix might be the future of Marvel's critical success.

Oh i agree on TFA.

It opens with that conpletely nonsensical fight scene. Rogers takes on three guys bigger than him in a fight he cannot win, which is not believable and is indicative of severely flawed character.

The movie then gets really boring, with Steve working in a circus, and some poor action scenes. I fel asleep watching it, and had no recollection of the epic and tremendous friendship with Bucky when watching TWS.

Red skull accumulates more resources than Hitler, but otherwise history proceeds normally. We learn nothing of Hydra as an organization. On the one hand it is a cult of personality, on the other hand if you cut off one head then two will take its place -- lol.

Peggy was great though.

 

[Erzengel]

The least of the MCU, TDW and IM2 are at worst average.

But the MCU, doesn't have anything as bad as Fantastic Fours, The Last Stand or Wolverine Origins, "yet".

I'm sure we can argue preference or favorites, but so far none of the MCU movies have been received negatively by critics.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I agree, the dark world is not better than Daredevil or Fantastic Four.

That's a cute summary but fortunately reason prevails as professional critics and general audience disagree with you. Daredevil and FF are among the worst CBMs ever made and an insult to the source material. The Dark World may not be your personal favorite but it's scored well enough with critics to avoid the dreaded "rotten" label, did very well at the box office and received great audience scores at time of release, the characterizations are spot on and faithful and some of us actually really like the film.

Amen! You could have just named DOFP Quicksilver "Speed Boy" and it would have made absolutely no difference. Don't get me wrong, it was a really cool scene but that is all it was. Unfortunately I kinda expected no less. The entire X verse by Fox is just a mess of mostly horrible interpretations of their comic counterparts. They are entertaining films but I am holding out for a truly great X Men film that has fun with these great characters while being respectful to the source material and I refuse to accept anything less. I want to see Cyclops in full costume and Havok actually being his brother ( and the right age) , and the Starjammers damnit! Imagine the fun. It can be Fox or Marvel, but please do the characters justice.

Well said! And again we see reason prevailing. Some of us actually don't care about the petty studio wars and if Fox would give us what we want then we wouldn't complain. 'Nuff said.

 

[Sian]

To be fair to Singer, DOFP isn't really an X-Men film. It's an Xavier/Magneto film guest starring the X-Men. I know that might sound like an excuse, but unlike Wolverine in the previous X-films, DOFP is specifically structured to be that in the grander image of the franchise. FC and DOFP feel like two Xavier/Magneto prequels meant to lead up to a (sorta) reboot which reintroduces (most of) the core team as we know it.

Not to mention that, at least in FC's case, it was meant to be an Xavier/Magneto story all along until the studio wanted an X-Men team in the film. Whereas the 2000's films were done in reverse. They set out to do X-Men films and ended up making two Wolverine films.

Plus Mystique, who landed the leading lady role because of who was playing her.

To be honest, I think DoFP focused on them more than X1 and 2 did on Wolverine.
In X1 Wolverine was the character who more or less introduced us to the X Men which was why it focused on him. X2 also gave the rest of the cast a chance to shine, apart from poor old James Marsden, who at least displayed some fine acting when they lost Jean. But both Janssen and Berry had major roles, Nightcrawler was terrific and although I would have liked to seen more of Rogue she had some good scenes. DoFP focused primarily on the Xavier/Magneto/Mystique story, while apart from Beast and Wolverine the other X Men were little more than extended cameos. And both Hoult and Jackman were little more than afterthoughts once Magneto was sprung from jail.

Unfortunately Singer is once again focusing on Mystique in AoA, which is one of the reasons I won't be watching it.