Avengers: Age of Ultron vs. X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Erzengel]

TF is an exception to the rule though.

TF is biggest outlier.

Pirates DMC is 12th highest domestic and that was at 54%. But even the worst Pirates movie OST made $1B at 33%.

 

[First Avenger]

You make a good point. I feel it's a lose-lose situation honestly which is why I try and temper my own expectations and just go with the flow.

It's extremely rare for a sequel to top a wildly successful film. You can probably count on one hand when that has happened.

I expect a vocal group of people to be disappointed with Civil War. Whereas (I could be wrong but) I expect people to be pleasantly surprised by BvS because of Man of Steel's lukewarm reception. I think Marvel's version of Spider-Man is under tremendous pressure. People automatically think it will be better. They could stumble with the character too. I don't think they will but there will be a contingent of naysayers. You can count on that.

This is very possible. Bell,people *****ing all over Whedon for AoU didn't surprise me at all. I always thought, after TWS and GOTG being so good,that marvel would have had a bit of a decline in the public's eye.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'm not surprised that there's a bit of a letdown feeling after last years MCU films. I only hope that Ant-Man is the beneficiary of that, because had AoU been another run away critical success, there would be even more pressure on Ant-Man.

 

[Shikamaru]

One thing I'll give AOU props on over Avengers is that it's much more of an Avengers film than the first one was. That's not to say it's a better film, but it do think it handles the team aspect better and makes them more like the Avengers of the comics.

One of my nitpicks with the first film is that the "team" felt more like a "team up" of various different characters, and some of them had little-to-no dynamic with the rest of the group to begin with (Thor and Hawkeye). In this I really got the vibe they were a team, and also that they were all good friends.

Of course, part of that is due to SHIELD being gone and the film opening with them being a team to begin, but part of it is also Whedon making the dynamics between them stronger and more organic (minus Brucetasha). I also feel that every actor has significantly grown in their roles and presence since the first film, particularly Evans, and they're now all in the same ballpark as Downey's Iron Man IMO, which I feel strengthened the team aspect even more.

So while I think Avengers is the superior film, I probably enjoy AoU a little more due to that team aspect I've been waiting to see in the MCU. I guess you could call it a guilty pleasure to an extent.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Those i'd classify as a team-up:

Fantastic Four
X-Men First Class
Guardians
Avengers

Those I'd classify as team movies (where the team existed already or currently exists):

Hellboy & Hellboy 2
X-Men, X2, X3
Watchmen
Age of Ultron
X-Men Days of Future Past (future only)
Fantastic Four 2: Rise of the Sulver Surfer

 

[Erzengel]

Wow.

Is FF really the only movie that really showcases the 1 vs. the team battle? That's really upsetting.

I mean, Avengers movies no, the X-Men movies no. Guardians no.

 

[Flint Marko]

One thing I'll give AOU props on over Avengers is that it's much more of an Avengers film than the first one was. That's not to say it's a better film, but it do think it handles the team aspect better and makes them more like the Avengers of the comics.

One of my nitpicks with the first film is that the "team" felt more like a "team up" of various different characters, and some of them had little-to-no dynamic with the rest of the group to begin with (Thor and Hawkeye). In this I really got the vibe they were a team, and also that they were all good friends.

Of course, part of that is due to SHIELD being gone and the film opening with them being a team to begin, but part of it is also Whedon making the dynamics between them stronger and more organic (minus Brucetasha). I also feel that every actor has significantly grown in their roles and presence since the first film, particularly Evans, and they're now all in the same ballpark as Downey's Iron Man IMO, which I feel strengthened the team aspect even more.

So while I think Avengers is the superior film, I probably enjoy AoU a little more due to that team aspect I've been waiting to see in the MCU. I guess you could call it a guilty pleasure to an extent.

I'm on the same page as you. AoU has it's flaws (Ultron was rushed, Thor's cave bath was confusing) but it was the most fun I have had at the movies since the first Avengers.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Days of Future Past and it aint even a contest.

 

[hafizbat]

One thing I'll give AOU props on over Avengers is that it's much more of an Avengers film than the first one was. That's not to say it's a better film, but it do think it handles the team aspect better and makes them more like the Avengers of the comics.

One of my nitpicks with the first film is that the "team" felt more like a "team up" of various different characters, and some of them had little-to-no dynamic with the rest of the group to begin with (Thor and Hawkeye). In this I really got the vibe they were a team, and also that they were all good friends.

Of course, part of that is due to SHIELD being gone and the film opening with them being a team to begin, but part of it is also Whedon making the dynamics between them stronger and more organic (minus Brucetasha). I also feel that every actor has significantly grown in their roles and presence since the first film, particularly Evans, and they're now all in the same ballpark as Downey's Iron Man IMO, which I feel strengthened the team aspect even more.

So while I think Avengers is the superior film, I probably enjoy AoU a little more due to that team aspect I've been waiting to see in the MCU. I guess you could call it a guilty pleasure to an extent.

Well said, I agree completely. Sad thing is that AoU will likely be the only time we'll see the original members as a real team for a full movie. CW already has a different team, and of course the war will divide them even more. And the Infinity War movies will be another war/event, there will way more heroes and they'll likely be all over the place.

AoU is probably going to be the only movie where the originals are a real family, who go on missions together and live together in Avengers Tower. When it's all said and done and the original cast members are done after Phase 3, I think the party scene in AoU will be one of the most precious scenes of the MCU for me. While the movie as a whole wasn't as well done as TA, the team aspect was brilliant.

 

[Shikamaru]

Well said, I agree completely. Sad thing is that AoU will likely be the only time we'll see the original members as a real team for a full movie. CW already has a different team, and of course the war will divide them even more. And the Infinity War movies will be another war/event, there will way more heroes and they'll likely be all over the place.

AoU is probably going to be the only movie where the originals are a real family, who go on missions together and live together in Avengers Tower. When it's all said and done and the original cast members are done after Phase 3, I think the party scene in AoU will be one of the most precious scenes of the MCU for me. While the movie as a whole wasn't as well done as TA, the team aspect was brilliant.

Honestly, I'm satisfied with just one film. Given all the Whedon talk over how AoU would "break the team apart", I thought the first 10 minutes would be the only time we'd see them as the comic book team. I mean, what he said kinda true, but it's not true in the way I thought it would be true.

I would also go a step further and say that, in many ways, it's also the ideal Justice League film. People complained there weren't enough casualties but to an extent, I also feel that was the point. This team, though human and flawed, have elevated themselves to a god-like status through their heroism, and that's why we look up to them. The final shot with the statues just cements that.

Second time I saw it, I found it held up a bit better when viewed solely as a "Here you go, the Avengers as you want them kicking ***" story. That's not to say the flaws people list are unfounded, but it does hold up better when you know what to expect. Overall, I think I have more problems with what the film didn't do than for what it did do. It could have been the MCU's best, both as a regular film and as an Avengers piece, instead it's just very well done Avengers piece (IMO).

 

[hafizbat]

Honestly, I'm satisfied with just one film. Given all the Whedon talk over how AoU would "break the team apart", I thought the first 10 minutes would be the only time we'd see them as the comic book team. I mean, what he said kinda true, but it's not true in the way I thought it would be true.

I would also go a step further and say that, in many ways, it's also the ideal Justice League film. People complained there weren't enough casualties but to an extent, I also feel that was the point. This team, though human and flawed, have elevated themselves to a god-like status through their heroism, and that's why we look up to them. The final shot with the statues just cements that.

Second time I saw it, I found it held up a bit better when viewed solely as a "Here you go, the Avengers as you want them kicking ***" story. That's not to say the flaws people list are unfounded, but it does hold up better when you know what to expect. Overall, I think I have more problems with what the film didn't do than for what it did do. It could have been the MCU's best, both as a regular film and as an Avengers piece, instead it's just very well done Avengers piece (IMO).

Another good post, I find the final bit interesting. Could you elaborate on what AoU didn't do? I felt that it tried many things but didn't always follow through. I also think it's interesting you thought it could have been the MCU's best, especially as a regular piece given how deep it is in the MCU's own mythology. Even with all its flaws corrected, the right things cut and the right things fleshed out, I'm still not sure it would be definitively better than the big four (IM1, TA, TWS, GotG), although it definitely would have been in the top tier.

 

[Shikamaru]

Another good post, I find the final bit interesting. Could you elaborate on what AoU didn't do? I felt that it tried many things but didn't always follow through. I also think it's interesting you thought it could have been the MCU's best, especially as a regular piece given how deep it is in the MCU's own mythology. Even with all its flaws corrected, the right things cut and the right things fleshed out, I'm still not sure it would be definitively better than the big four (IM1, TA, TWS, GotG), although it definitely would have been in the top tier.

I'm mainly referring to what a lot of other reviewers said regarding it having a lot of great ideas that are not executed to the best of their abilities. I would have liked to seen a lot of the themes explored more, that's all. The first one that comes to mind is Ultron. It's not just a matter of him not being threatening enough, but also a lot of the philosophy that comes with the character is simplified. Next up would probably be the Twins, who I feel should have at least had a talk with Tony over their past incident.

And honestly, it might just simply be a case of the film trying to have its cake and eat it too. The problem with Ultron is that he's an inherently personal villain, and not exactly the best choice when you're telling a "the team as you know it kicking ***" type of story. Even in the comics, the best Ultron stories often have a primary protagonist the rest of the story centers or (usually Hank or Janet). In this Tony creates Ultron, and has a few moments with him here and there, but it's still ultimately a team film where everyone gets equal treatment (I know I complained the first time it was too Tony-driven, but I changed my mind on that after viewing it a second time). I think someone like Loki or Kang or the Masters of Evil would have been better fit for this particular story.

That's another problem the film has; it feels like it's Whedon's fanfiction Avengers film that he wrote years ago and finally got a chance to adapt. Except that when he finally got the chance to make it, he forgot to take in other factors like continuity and what he can explore here that can't be explored anywhere else. Not having the film so team-focused, for example, wouldn't be a problem in an alternate continuity like 616 where that's already been done. Even Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, as much as I liked them, I don't think were as necessary to the story we got as the film tried to makes us believe. I honestly think you could have cut them out with minor script changes and used that time more on Ultron.

Also, by "MCU's best" I really meant "up there with the big four". I have a tendency to go on and on when I type and noticed it seems to discourage a lot of hypesters from replying, particularly when I go on tangents, so I'm trying to minimize things to the main point as much as possible.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I haven't watched Interstellar.😮😮

While it seems to be a love it or hate it movie, I personally loved it and would recommend watching it asap. Possibly my favourite Nolan movie and a future classic in my eyes.

I'm not surprised that there's a bit of a letdown feeling after last years MCU films. I only hope that Ant-Man is the beneficiary of that, because had AoU been another run away critical success, there would be even more pressure on Ant-Man.

Hopefully that is the case and Ant Man is great, I don't want this turning into another 2013 were I personally grew to dislike both movies and they are 2 of Marvels poorest efforts for me. I like what I have seen and heard of AM since the average first trailer though and really hope its good.

 

[Mjölnir]

It's all subjective. RT can measure which is a better movie or which is a more entertaining movie, depends on the person.

Unless it's an educational movie the point is to entertain. There's no inherent value to any part of a movie other than to entertain the viewer. The cinematography of Birdman isn't good because of it's technical aspects on any objective level, it can be good if someone finds the work entertaining to watch (which I certainly did).

It's pretty common to see people try to make taste in movies into something far more important than it is though.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The problem with Ultron is that he's an inherently personal villain

I agree. With how Ultron is set up, the core of the movie ought to be a Stark/Ultron story, yet it's not there. And I don't really think there's much of a core story in its stead.

 

[TeeKay]

Honestly, I'm satisfied with just one film. Given all the Whedon talk over how AoU would "break the team apart", I thought the first 10 minutes would be the only time we'd see them as the comic book team. I mean, what he said kinda true, but it's not true in the way I thought it would be true.

I would also go a step further and say that, in many ways, it's also the ideal Justice League film. People complained there weren't enough casualties but to an extent, I also feel that was the point. This team, though human and flawed, have elevated themselves to a god-like status through their heroism, and that's why we look up to them. The final shot with the statues just cements that.

Second time I saw it, I found it held up a bit better when viewed solely as a "Here you go, the Avengers as you want them kicking ***" story. That's not to say the flaws people list are unfounded, but it does hold up better when you know what to expect. Overall, I think I have more problems with what the film didn't do than for what it did do. It could have been the MCU's best, both as a regular film and as an Avengers piece, instead it's just very well done Avengers piece (IMO).

And I thought I was the only one who noticed this. The central theme of this film was Gods and Monsters. Whilst the execution was subpar, it was a very interesting way to look at these heroes. That's one of the reasons why Stark and Thor were not impressed by Rhodey's story at the start. These guys are so above everyone else even though they don't view themselves as Gods.

This the is the one that's mostly associated with the JL like you pointed out. And then you have Ultron basically referencing the bible and it's events and God. And then him basically saying he's come to save the world by throwing a rock at it. He's the one character in this film who sees himself as above everyone else. Vision is basically an android God and that's why Ultron dear s him at the end. His speech to Natasha towards the end really showed why he created Vision.

Vision personifies Ultrons God like status had he been successful in dropping that city. Some interesting stuff in AoU. Ultron viewing himself as the saviour of the human race was an interesting idea that was never expanded upon beyond his talk to Natasha. That's when we really learnt of his motives.

 

[Zarex]

I thought the "Avengers vs Ultron bots" had the same problem as other films featuring standoffs against overwhelming numbers but not overwhelming force. It reminded me too much of the Bride vs the Crazy 88s battle in Kill Bill and the X-Men vs the jumping mutants in XM:TLS. It's hard to take the enormous army seriously when they go down so easy.

I would have liked to have seen either a) a smaller (say a dozen or so) army of much more formidable Ultrons or b) a monster sized robot ala Ultron 7. I am hoping to see the Avengers team up against something both enormous and powerful - a Celestial? - in the Infinity War films.

 

[hafizbat]

I'm mainly referring to what a lot of other reviewers said regarding it having a lot of great ideas that are not executed to the best of their abilities. I would have liked to seen a lot of the themes explored more, that's all. The first one that comes to mind is Ultron. It's not just a matter of him not being threatening enough, but also a lot of the philosophy that comes with the character is simplified. Next up would probably be the Twins, who I feel should have at least had a talk with Tony over their past incident.

And honestly, it might just simply be a case of the film trying to have its cake and eat it too. The problem with Ultron is that he's an inherently personal villain, and not exactly the best choice when you're telling a "the team as you know it kicking ***" type of story. Even in the comics, the best Ultron stories often have a primary protagonist the rest of the story centers or (usually Hank or Janet). In this Tony creates Ultron, and has a few moments with him here and there, but it's still ultimately a team film where everyone gets equal treatment (I know I complained the first time it was too Tony-driven, but I changed my mind on that after viewing it a second time). I think someone like Loki or Kang or the Masters of Evil would have been better fit for this particular story.

That's another problem the film has; it feels like it's Whedon's fanfiction Avengers film that he wrote years ago and finally got a chance to adapt. Except that when he finally got the chance to make it, he forgot to take in other factors like continuity and what he can explore here that can't be explored anywhere else. Not having the film so team-focused, for example, wouldn't be a problem an alternate continuity like 616 where that's already been done. Even Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, as much as I liked them, I don't think were as necessary to the story we got the film tried to makes us believe. I honestly think you could have cut them out with minor script changes and used that time more on Ultron.

Also, by "MCU's best" I really meant "up there with the big four". I have a tendency to go on and on when I type and noticed it seems to discourage a lot of hypesters from replying, particularly when I go on tangents, so I'm trying to minimize things to the main point as much as possible.

Absolutely spot on, man. I feel exactly the same way, I've been saying from the beginning that it felt like Whedon made the Avengers movie he always wanted to make rather than the best possible movie.

Relating it to DOFP, I think it could have been much better if the story was streamlined to just a few threads. I know people complain that most of the X-men were just background, but the movie really worked because it honed in on just Xavier, Magneto, and Mystique. In AOU, I felt that Whedon tried giving everyone depth and ended up giving it to no one. I know this would be a drastic change and make for a completely different movie, but I would seriously consider cutting out the Widow/Hulk romance and the farmhouse. I do think the movie would have worked better if it focused on just Ultron, the Twins, and the Avengers' shortcomings. That would be more than enough for one movie.

 

[thegameq]

Age of Ultron. It was what it was supposed to be with no overly dramatic pretense. It's the MCU, it is what it's supposed to be. Could it have been executed better in some spots? Of course. Do I really need to say that can be said for many other films as well? If you don't like the MCU or what Marvel is doing, I honestly feel sorry for you. So many of us have been waiting to finally see these characters and this approach taken on the big screen that it is a sheer delight. Honestly it baffles me that many so-called fans are hating on Marvel--and lets call it what it is as evidenced by the obvious snide, backhanded and passive aggressive shots taken at Marvel on the various boards and threads in SHH.

As for DoFP...you know I finally saw that film after hearing all the hype from the X-boards that the X-Men franchise was back. I had abandoned the franchise after losing patience with Fox to finally bring the X-Franchise up to modern comic book movie standards, i.e., the MCU and the Raimi Spiderman films at the time. After all the hype DoFP is just further example that the X-Franchise is stuck in the 90s. With the exception of a big set piece here and there, the film still feels like its from the 90s era where comic book movies are made conservatively so as to risk as little as possible. Supposedly we're going to finally get the X-Men closer to the comics with Apocolypse but I ain't getting my hopes up.

Age of Ultron for me. Let me know when Fox grows a pair and decides to make a real comic book movie and take a visual and creative risk with the X-Men.

 

[starscream22]

Originally Posted by Sithborg View Post
People like to bring up box office and Rottentomatoes when it reinforces that others like what they like.

Yeah, because it's basically the poll that matters the most. Even the DC and Fox supporters can't outright bash AOU or place it in the Bayformers category so them whining about me bringing up box office numbers as if they didn't deserve it is irrelevant. It's not Marvel's fault that Singer's crap can't keep up.

 

[Tony Stark]

Well as I said before, it's like comparing Star Trek to Star Wars. I thought Star Trek 2009 was the best Trek film since Wrath of Khan, I also really enjoyed Into Darkness, though I see why alot don't like it. But the fact is Star Trek will never be a billion dollar franchise. Star Wars on the other hand is pretty much guaranteed to make a billion no matter what the reviews are like. It's just got a bigger broader audience.

More people like Avengers than X-men, it's just a plain simple fact. It doesn't mean you can't like X-men better, but it's a much smaller audience. In fact it's very likely that XMA makes less than DOFP did. Where there's still a chance with stellar reviews that Avengers IW could make more than Avengers.

 

[thegameq]

LOL at all the armchair quarterbacks. So easy to criticize. And yet no one else is doing what Marvel is doing - building franchise spanning stories and continuity. Fox-Men continuity is utter garbage. It's no measuring stick whatsoever.

Maybe someday Fox and DC will do what Marvel's doing better than Marvel but that hasn't happened yet. Until I see something better all these criticisms ring hollow to me.

Pretty much.

Marvel is finally doing it and people are actually hating on them. It's balls to the wall scifi and fantasy with comic book characters and action, with a scoop of comic book canon mixed in. Jesus they're giving us Ant-man, in all his glory--a guy who can shrink to the size of an ant complete with awesome special f/x, characters and story. The MCU isn't beyond reproach, BUT COME ON! The boyish grin I get from their films alone is worth it.

How many chances has Fox had to get it right with the x-Men? How much you wanna bet that Apocalypse will still be more of the same 90s era comic book movie X-Men?

Like I said, look around and the passive aggressive, back handed comments towards Marvel abound. Oddly, I find most of it probably comes from one particular group...guess which ones? Hint: surprisingly it isn't DC fans.

 

[Sleiek]

It was an incredibly tough call for me.

But I ended up choosing Age of Ultron because DOFP climax felt weaker than I hoped for.

Still, I love DOFP. Their theme song gives me goosebumps everytime.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Days of Future Past.

 

[thegameq]

I wouldn't say that at all Teekay, there have been some bad villains with high body counts and poor villains with high ones. It's about striking the balance between being a threat and being a good villain. Does Magneto have a high body count? I wouldn't say so, Dr Octopus didn't either and I wouldn't say The Joker had a huge one either. But they were all great villains who came across as threats (The Joker more so because he targeted the heroes loved ones and had no issues with killing them) and contributed to great movies by being great themselves.

Ultron was non of these things, Spader gave a good performance, but he just didn't come across as a threat at all in the movie. Especially when the likes of BW and Hawkeye could tear through the drones with ease. Just one scene, one scene of Ultron fighting them all at once and beating them on his own would have made a big difference IMO, and also given lines like "How can you possibly stop me" some meaning rather than coming across as hollow threats.

I think Marvel's goal was to personalize and humanize Ultron thus making him a "character" so to speak. But it is a big contrast from the cold and menacing intellectual AI some of us have pictured Ultron to be.