Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO

[jmc]

Just turn on the bloody off switch for christ sake.

 

[flickchick85]

Just turn on the bloody off switch for christ sake.

Pretty sure they can't.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Anyone catch the shot of the tablet which showed Maeve's diagnostics near the end of the episode? One of the graphics looked

Spoiler

almost exactly like the maze.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Just turn on the bloody off switch for christ sake.

Pretty sure they can't.

They showed twice in this episode that shutting her down doesn't work, and that she is immune to commands vocal or otherwise.

 

[flickchick85]

They showed twice in this episode that shutting her down doesn't work, and that she is immune to commands vocal or otherwise.

They showed it in previous episodes too.

And yeah, I caught the maze thing as well. Veerrrrry interesting.

 

[vanson]

so do you guys think that stubbs is working with ford and those two questions to bernard where just an additional checkup ?

or is he in danger now too?

 

[jmc]

They showed twice in this episode that shutting her down doesn't work, and that she is immune to commands vocal or otherwise.

And yet there was a perfect opportunity to wipe her memory completely and the idiot tech geeks didn't do it. At worst, just effing shoot her. Done.

 

[Spider-Who?]

And yet there was a perfect opportunity to wipe her memory completely and the idiot tech geeks didn't do it. At worst, just effing shoot her. Done.

Wiping her is exactly what the red headed tech was trying to do. But 1) in order for her memory to be wiped, she has to be shut off (which she cannot be), and 2) the other tech *wants* to help her. As for shooting her, well, hosts are shot all the time (even in the head), and that clearly hasn't affected them when they come back.

 

[jmc]

Wiping her is exactly what the red headed tech was trying to do. But 1) in order for her memory to be wiped, she has to be shut off (which she cannot be), and 2) the other tech *wants* to help her. As for shooting her, well, hosts are shot all the time (even in the head), and that clearly hasn't affected them when they come back.

And yet there's more than enough security and man power available to overcome any rogue like Maeve, except that the script calls for Beavis and Butthead to not actually do anything about it. Any normal person who was working in this environment would have alerted those higher up about what was happening. This show now suffers from basic flaws in logic and is not nearly as smart as it thinks it is, not to mention you can't have any real threat to a characters safety if they're not real.

 

[David H.]

Was that an Amy Winehouse cover?

 

[Tony Stark]

And yet there was a perfect opportunity to wipe her memory completely and the idiot tech geeks didn't do it. At worst, just effing shoot her. Done.

He didn't wipe her out of compassion. They've been showing that from his character going back to when he was trying to program the bird to fly. The hosts are able to manipulate the emotions of the humans, so she could predict exactly what happened. Last week she says something about "I know how men work".

 

[Tony Stark]

My synopsis, and speculation:

Spoiler

OK if the theory holds true that Bernard is a recreation of Arnold then Ford is even more f-ed up than I originally thought, as he would have created a host in the image of his old partner.

I've been going off the theory that nothing Ford has told us has been untrue, so a key point is when Bernard asks if Ford ever made him hurt anyone like that before and he says "no". I believe this is the truth so if that is accurate we are left to believe that Bernard killed Elsie of his own accord. Oh and final confirmation that Elsie is dead not missing, which makes me wonder why on earth Bernard was searching for her in Episode 7.

I've been hedging my bets on if the MIB was Logan or William, but I think it's nearly confirmed that it is William. MIB sees the first host he interacts with in the staging area of WW, right after he gets off the train. He is surprised to see her and thought they would have put her out of commission. BTW, I know there's still some people that are denying the multiple timeline theory, but pretty much this just flat out revealed it to you.

We also learn that MIB had a wife and daughter. We don't know for sure if this was Logan's sister, but I'm guessing it's a factor. We also know that his wife kills herself, which is an interesting reaction to see William stop Dolores from shooting herself in the head. WW is basically MIB's "secret porn addiction" that destroys his marriage and drives his wife to suicide, and estrangement with his daughter.

I think we might have already been told what the maze is for. Ford says back in an early episode, the park shows the guests who they could be. I think this is probably true for the hosts as well. I see the maze as simply the mechanism for self discovery.

As Dolores grew closer to the maze, she was seeing her beginnings of her time in the park. She says that Arnold is near, so she is literally going back to her origins and to her creator. She is discovering who she really is, literally and the parallel to the human William, and MIB showing who they really are and how to proceed.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My synopsis, and speculation:

Spoiler

OK if the theory holds true that Bernard is a recreation of Arnold then Ford is even more f-ed up than I originally thought, as he would have created a host in the image of his old partner.

I've been going off the theory that nothing Ford has told us has been untrue, so a key point is when Bernard asks if Ford ever made him hurt anyone like that before and he says "no". I believe this is the truth so if that is accurate we are left to believe that Bernard killed Elsie of his own accord. Oh and final confirmation that Elsie is dead not missing, which makes me wonder why on earth Bernard was searching for her in Episode 7.

I've been hedging my bets on if the MIB was Logan or William, but I think it's nearly confirmed that it is William. MIB sees the first host he interacts with in the staging area of WW, right after he gets off the train. He is surprised to see her and thought they would have put her out of commission. BTW, I know there's still some people that are denying the multiple timeline theory, but pretty much this just flat out revealed it to you.

We also learn that MIB had a wife and daughter. We don't know for sure if this was Logan's sister, but I'm guessing it's a factor. We also know that his wife kills herself, which is an interesting reaction to see William stop Dolores from shooting herself in the head. WW is basically MIB's "secret porn addiction" that destroys his marriage and drives his wife to suicide, and estrangement with his daughter.

I think we might have already been told what the maze is for. Ford says back in an early episode, the park shows the guests who they could be. I think this is probably true for the hosts as well. I see the maze as simply the mechanism for self discovery.

As Dolores grew closer to the maze, she was seeing her beginnings of her time in the park. She says that Arnold is near, so she is literally going back to her origins and to her creator. She is discovering who she really is, literally and the parallel to the human William, and MIB showing who they really are and how to proceed.

Spoiler

They did not confirm Elise is dead. They confirmed Bernard was strangling her. Whether she is dead or not, well we shall see.

 

[Wise]

Good episode. The Minotaur was a little bit on the nose, but still a good ep.

 

[Wise]

My personal theory is that Arnold's "maze" is all about transferring the human consciousness into a host. I think Arnold's obsession with this came from that it may have been his son that died, as Ford said his life was marked by personal tragedy. Bernard may have been his attempt at transferring the human consciousness into a host and/or interference by Ford. It would make sense that if it was Arnold's son that died that he would be obsessed at bringing him back to life. The reason I think this may be feasible, there's a line that Ford says to Tommy before uploading the Wyatt backstory, that "like all great stories, one that is rooted in truth". Perhaps Ford uploaded Arnold's backstory to Bernard as a means of control. However there's a line where Ford talks about the medical technology can save anyone, the only question is that statement which seems to have been given in the most recent timeline, would it be true 35 years ago when the incident occurred regarding Arnold.

I'm torn on if the MIB is William or Logan. I've heard good theories on both, that Logan could be MIB and Tommy is William with a failed attempt at transferring his consciousness. There's several thematic events to suggest that William may be tommy, such as they both enter the park asleep on a train. They bump into the same person on the street. They both pick up the dropped can from Dolores on the street. It could be that Tommy's loop is actually a continuation of William's unfinished tale.

On the other hand there's a line that Logan says to William that "this place seduces everyone eventually, it will get to you too, and I can't ******* wait to meet that guy." this would suggest that William could become the person he despises the most....Logan.

The show throws you on so many loops that I can see it going in any number of directions.

Yeah I've had that theory since the first episode and the dialogue about Delos having much larger vested interestes in the hosts than just entertaining tourists.

 

[terry78]

When reveals are finally made it's more than likely going to be so many obvious foreshadowing clues we missed we'll be like, ****.

 

[harlequinade]

Super psyched for Louis Herthum finally being back. His work in episode 1 is still my favorite performance in the series

 

[Tony Stark]

When reveals are finally made it's more than likely going to be so many obvious foreshadowing clues we missed we'll be like, ****.

That's what's so great about this show. It's not like Lost where the reveals were out of left field and just meant for shock value. This stuff is straight out of Nolan's earlier works with Memento and the Prestige. Also it's a bit reminiscent of Shyamalan's only decent twist film the sixth sense, where you are presented with clues through the exposition, and when you see the reveal it all adds up.

 

[Spider-Who?]

And yet there's more than enough security and man power available to overcome any rogue like Maeve, except that the script calls for Beavis and Butthead to not actually do anything about it. Any normal person who was working in this environment would have alerted those higher up about what was happening. This show now suffers from basic flaws in logic and is not nearly as smart as it thinks it is, not to mention you can't have any real threat to a characters safety if they're not real.

They've already gone into why the techs haven't gone to higher ups. Felix hasn't because he wants to help her; Maeve is using his compassion to manipulate him. As for Sylvester, he actually did try to go to higher ups (twice now), but she's physically threatened him (twice) and is black mailing him (she knows he makes money on the side by giving employees access to shut off hosts for sex). Going to higher ups will get him fired and even sued for what he's done with the hosts and what they're doing with Maeve, so he's trying to keep the situation contained to protect himself while attempting to get through to Felix. Maeve is blackmailing and manipulating them both by feeding off of their weaknesses: Felix's compassion and Sylvester's fear.

Honestly, every single issue you've had with the storyline has been addressed. You're either not paying attention or ignoring them in order to complain. I don't know what else to tell ya.

 

[The Shape]

Another fantastic episode.

I love this show and continued to be impressed by all of the story layers. One thing I love about it is that the reveals and "twists" we've seen (and will continue to see) feel like they're truly earned. I don't hold it against the show that several prominent fan theories have been confirmed (and will be confirmed). If anything, it shows that they aren't doing anything for shock value. Nothing really comes "out of nowhere" on this show. The fact that viewers have been so engaged and invested in this show -- while paying such close attention to all the various details and layers -- is a compliment to how well they are executing everything.

Edit: Just saw Tony Gunk said something similar above.

 

[Tony Stark]

I have to show my wife all these posts. It's hard to convince her that the reason I like this show is the incredible acting and the story telling. She thinks it's all the naked women.

 

[Dr Lee]

Spoiler

They did not confirm Elise is dead. They confirmed Bernard was strangling her. Whether she is dead or not, well we shall see.

Spoiler

having looked at the screen caps of the flash... it screams that the arm that grabbed her was Bernard's and that we saw him remembering holding her trying to subdue her rather than kill her. I fully expect when we get more of the scene that we'll see someone stepping in and deactivating Bernard (Arnold maybe) and that Elsie has been with him since then. I don't believe from what we've seen so far that she is dead and gone.

and even if we see her killed, then this show has shown us that what we see and what we get confirmed isn't always what happened.

 

[The Shape]

I have to show my wife all these posts. It's hard to convince her that the reason I like this show is the incredible acting and the story telling. She thinks it's all the naked women.

In fairness, all the naked boobies are a pretty big part of the show's greatness.

 

[Teelie]

There are also full-frontal naked men for those who are interested in that.

The writing is good and the visuals are even better. Everything in this series has been good. It is like Game of Thrones only less gory and gratuitous.

Maeve has continued to rule like a boss and as we have seen she is slowly going all Skynet.

Bernard's flash of Elise is also inconclusive. Whatever is going on with him it is obvious that Ford is keeping something from him.

The park is coming closer to the climatic slaughter from the movie I think. With everyone (host and guest) losing control it is only a matter of time before more blood is shed.

MIB is apparently a very important man out in the real world too. I do think the timeline theory is right more than ever.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I was expecting Ford to replace Teresa with a robot.