Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO

[David H.]

I am so confused.

 

[The Shape]

I question how good a show actually is when the audience ends up five episodes ahead of the show itself.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[kvz5]

Wright was spectacular tonight. Especially at that last scene with Hopkins.

 

[Marvolo]

I question how good a show actually is when the audience ends up five episodes ahead of the show itself.

What a nonsensical comment.

 

[MurkeNyou]

I love instead of people admitting their fan theories were wrong, the show is "bad". Maturity and pure ID, interwebs

 

[jmc]

I don't have any theories, I just think the shows writing isn't nearly good as it could be. Interesting themes and concepts are intertwined with gaps in logic.

 

[Tony Stark]

My episode 9 thoughts:

Spoiler

No real twists here, just revealing what we speculated on all along. So pretty much Bernard = Arnold. This wasn't the shock that we had in Episode 6, not because we didn't guess that Bernard was a host, but because we saw Ford for what he really was, and making Bernard kill like he did.

The maze is as I suspected, just a metaphor for the hosts gaining consiousness. The missing part of the bicameral mind theory. The layers as explained were Memory, Improvisation, Self Interest, and the top level was blank. I believe the top level is self awareness. The hosts understand who they really are, and wanting freedom.

The most interesting reveal of the episode to me is that the "incident" that happened 35 years ago, was Dolores killing Bernard. I had thought it would be Dolores killing Logan as the method of the self interest part of the bicameral mind theory, but it is Dolores killing her creator.

Another interesting bit to me is that I had originally speculated that Arnold build Bernard, as an experiment of him trying to achieve life after death. I had thought that the memory of the death of Bernard's son was actually Arnold's son , and that motivated Bernard to as Ford put it in the first episode "raise Lazarus". Well we now know that Ford indeed built Bernard and the timing of the incident would make it impossible for anyone other than Ford to have built Bernard. As we can see a slightly younger Ford perhaps 10-15 years earlier, or perhaps even earlier, after all Elise said Bernard had "been there forever". However it's becoming clear that Arnold was simply smarter than Ford and better. Thus Ford had to use the code that Arnold created in Bernard, and Bernard is self aware of it.

One other thing, the extent of Mav's power is equal only to Ford, and perhaps greater. We learned back in the episode where Bernard finds the off grid hosts of Ford's family that they only responded to the voice commands of Ford. We also know that Bernard seemingly only responded to Ford's commands as well. Now that we've seen Mav control Bernard, it's safe to assume that she has an equal command over the hosts that Ford does.

With one caveat....

Bernard tells of Ford having a back door, to controlling the host in shutting down Clementine. Perhaps that back door could also effect Mav.

My favorite part of the episode however, involved the story of William and Logan, and the resolution to this is what I most look forward to in the finale. We now see how William finally becomes the man in black. We saw small glimpses last week. Did William finish off the dying bandit by the stream? But this time he went on his first full on murderous rampage, which is why I also believe the connections of William to Teddy were also confirmed in this episode. We had thought Teddy to be the white knight, when now we see from his forgotten history that he commits mass murder.

That's what I love about this show. Just as we think we have all the mysteries in this show wrapped up, another one pops up.

Not the best episode this season, but a great lead in to what will hopefully be a great season finale.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Also, how can a guest know if the other person is a guest or a host?

Guests are pretty obvious in that regard. They never really hide it.

Perhaps the guns used scan targets and jam if the target is human?

 

[harlequinade]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Had Memento or The Prestige were TV series people would figure out them too...I'd love for Nolan to come up with something NO ONE predicted and it's not like anyone forced him to go with mystery route with this show but the fact that none of the reveals is jarring and yet not everyone managed to pick up on the hints shows this is extremely well written series

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Yeah, there are theories about everything covering everything, someone is bound to get it right.

When was there a truly shocking reveal or twist, recently?

 

[harlequinade]

Yeah, there are theories about everything covering everything, someone is bound to get it right.

When was there a truly shocking reveal or twist, recently?

I think it only works for movies if you go in blind or in a show where people wouldn't expect mysteries and there were no leaks...so nothing from HBO or AMC

 

[elgaz]

What a superb episode. Was the reveal a shock? Not really, but that didn't matter to me. It was how they revealed it, really a masterclass in storytelling and superb acting from Wright and Hopkins. The whole episode was just great; ratcheted up the tension to 11 and I can't wait to see what they do with the finale.

 

[vanson]

I question how good a show actually is when the audience ends up five episodes ahead of the show itself.

well it was still alot of guessing involved until now.. there was no hard prove for alot of these theories..
so the writing is pretty solid still..

Yeah, there are theories about everything covering everything, someone is bound to get it right.

When was there a truly shocking reveal or twist, recently?

Bernard being a host was one... the thing is people pointed at pretty much everyone and said "he's/she's a host".. but without any actual proof.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Bernard being a host was one... the thing is people pointed at pretty much everyone and said "he/she is a host".. but without any proof actually..

That's what I'm saying.

And I meant generally, in other media, what other twist has there been in recent years that was really well done and unexpected? I can't think of any, because the internet and modern media publicity makes guessing a lot easier.

 

[elgaz]

I question how good a show actually is when the audience ends up five episodes ahead of the show itself.

Guessing where a storyline might go in no way diminishes the quality of the show, the acting or the style - for me anyway. Not everything has to be a shock or a twist. The reveal in Ep9 wasn't a shock to me but that still remains one of the best pieces of television I've seen in some time.

 

[Kaleb]

Jonathan Nolan his wife probably wrote the show thinking ''yes this is perfect, one of the best twists Ive written since The Prestige'' but they clearly underestimated the power of redditors and the online community today. Does that take away from it being a bad show certainly not, Im not in it for the twist.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Is Dolores supposed to be flesh and blood in the MiB timeline?

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Also, I gotta say, Bernard previously not perceiving Arnold in the picture, and the existence of another man as a red herring, was a deft touch.

 

[dark_b]

They showed hints through all 8 episodes. Different westworld logos,present/30 years ago/35years ago,MIB&William,Maeve the one who escapes the park. They always expected fans to find out all the twists before they would be revealed in the episodes.

I have a huge problem with the writting and direction in ep9.My friend didnt know that Bernand was Arnold before ep9 like i did . at around 00:38 he figured it out. Now why would at around 00:48 the twist be that he is Arnold? It was very strange how they presented it. I know what a slow burn or slow reveal is. IMO this was not.

What is there left to show in ep10? We know that Dolores kills Arnold and that she is connected to Wyatt. We know that a lot of hosts are remembering and know abot themselfs,we know how exactly Maeve will escape(two different trailers show it),we know that MIB is William and that Dolores will try to kill MIB before finding out that its William. Thank god that i invested my time for the themes and the whole story as a whole and not focus my time on twists. So what if i find out in one week that there is no world left when Maeve escapes the park(Dolores: ''If it's such a wonderful place out there, why are you all clamoring to get in here?''). and if Ford is waiting for Maeve at the door? sooo what.

 

[squeekness]

Logan gives William a picture of his future wife. I am almost certain that was the same picture Delores' dad finds on the farm and freaks him out. How did that picture get on the farm?

 

[dark_b]

Logan gives William a picture of his future wife. I am almost certain that was the same picture Delores' dad finds on the farm and freaks him out. How did that picture get on the farm?

William has it now under his shirt. in ep10 when William finds Dolores maybe they will go back home he will throw the picture down and kiss her.

To bad that this picture was not just normal oldschool world building. a guest payed money and lost something. Classic C.Nolan and J.Nolan writting. everything has to be connected.

 

[dark_b]

Why would Ford create a robot(by himself) and put in all the normal voice commands that Maeve used on Bernard? i mean that would mean that when Bernard was next to other hosts and some of the tech guys said the voice commands he should have frozen.

 

[Tony Stark]

Is Dolores supposed to be flesh and blood in the MiB timeline?

She certainly may have been rebuilt into one of the newer models. But what's more interesting to me is the decision to keep her around [blackout]when she is the first and so far only host we know about to kill a human[/blackout].

 

[Tony Stark]

Why would Ford create a robot(by himself) and put in all the normal voice commands that Maeve used on Bernard? i mean that would mean that when Bernard was next to other hosts and some of the tech guys said the voice commands he should have frozen.

Actually that wouldn't be the case. Remember when Bernard finds the 5 hosts in the off grid location that were replicas of Ford's families? They didn't respond to Bernard, they would only respond to Ford's voice commands. That's what's scary about Maeve right now, she's possibly the most powerful being in the park with Ford possibly being the lone exception.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Logan gives William a picture of his future wife. I am almost certain that was the same picture Delores' dad finds on the farm and freaks him out. How did that picture get on the farm?

My guess is that on the first day we see on the show, when MiB drags Dolores to the barn, he drops it. Or perhaps intentionally leave it for Peter to find.

Of course, the real question is who has printed photos anymore, nevermind several decades in the future.