Falcon and Winter Soldier Baron Z E M O - He's back for more vengeance?

[Fosterson]

Especially if his skewed view of superheroes from his personal loss has led him to see them a destructive force in the world, which isn’t any stretch from his agenda in Civil War just evolved into a broader viewpoint, and specifically Sam and Bucky are both very connected to Captain America and Sam is probably directly replacing him.

I think this idea of Zemo regarding ALL enhanced people (not just the Avengers) as dangerous was already evident in CW. That's why he killed the other Winter Soldiers and then joked to Bucky that "You really thought I wanted more of you?".

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I am happy the most effective (He succeeded) villain and one of the most nuanced MCU baddies as well is returning along with a powerhouse performer like Bruhle.

 

[Still Wynning]

Really? Worse than this guy?

No villain in the MCU is worse than the villain from “Thor: Turn Off the Dark” whose only motivation was to cover the universe in darkness just because...he wanted to cover the universe in darkness.

 

[Schlosser85]

Literally just Dark Elf #1.

 

[Lantern Venom]

No villain in the MCU is worse than the villain from “Thor: Turn Off the Dark” whose only motivation was to cover the universe in darkness just because...he wanted to cover the universe in darkness.

Granted, the Dark Elves motivation was a little cookie-cutter, but it made more sense than what was done with MINO and Sokovia Joe. Returning the universe to a time when the Dark Elves weren't an dying species and instead were the undisputed rulers of that reality might be a little stock, but it totally makes sense. If you read his earliest appearances, his motivation was that war was an essential part of the existence of Dark Elves. His ability to be part of the endless wars in the Nine Realms was thrwarted by his mother, who had lost many of her children to them, so her answer was to essentially sell him into slavery. I wouldn't say that he was a top-tier character to start with, but at least the theatrical version somewhat resembled the culture and dynamic from which he came.

Baron Zemo, on the other hand, is a great character. His issues with Cap are both personal and philosophical. His rivalry with Cap, and by the extension, the Avengers, was instilled when he was a child. He's a much more layered and enjoyable character than the soulless construct that we saw in Civil War. And don't even get me started on the fact that he killed T'Chaka, something that Klaw should have done, so the ineptitude of this character actually extended beyond that awful suicide attempt scene.

And the "Mandarin" twist in IM3 was perhaps the most wretched thing that Marvel Studios has done. I'm not even the biggest Iron Man fan, but I know that turning his archnemesis into a joke character is using the comics for toilet paper. There was backlash with both "Zemo" and "Mandarin", which is why Marvel Studios is now course-correcting with each of them.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Wow...

 

[Still Wynning]

Yeah, the amount of mental gymnastics required to justify how “bad” a particular character is written, just because it doesn’t conform to their view of what constitutes as “good writing and development” and “not being like the comics’ version”, that they go to ridiculous lengths to defend a villain widely regarded to be the lowest of the textbook examples of what is regarded as “the MCU villain problem” to justify their stance, is frankly too pointless to argue against because they’re so set on that opinion (emphasis on “opinion”, not “fact”) that nothing will change their mind.

Again, Malekith = good concept on paper, terrible execution. Zemo = different yet interesting concept on paper, excellent execution. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see which one faired better on screen.

Also, would really like to know about and see all of the widespread “backlash” this version of Zemo got when Civil War was released, because I remember that character being received pretty positively, so this is news to me.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I have a super crazy prediction about Zemo's future in the MCU. A lot of it probably won't end up happening, but here it goes:

- He is asked by the US Government to create the Thunderbolts and he gets to pick and choose who he wants on his team. They become the US Government's sanctioned Super Hero team. They find success as the good guys. Then some major villain (Kang the Conqueror played by Jonathan Majors) wrecks havoc on the Earth, declaring war on every country on Earth, including the United States. This eventually leads to the return of the Avengers and perhaps they are joined by the Guardians and Eternals. But where are the Thunderbolts? Zemo, being the leader of the team decides to sideline The Thunderbolts due to his continued hatred for the Avengers. Now the Thunderbolts can't join Kang because that would be going to war against the very government that put them together. However, having been superheroes for a long time, the Thunderbolts (Ross Hulk included) become upset that Zemo's hatred for the Avengers has prevented them from saving the World. This makes the team turn on Zemo, eventually joining the Avengers against Kang. This leads to Zemo joining forces with Kang to destroy the Avengers and all Superheroes once and for all, including his former team.

Again, it's crazy and it may not happen, but I don't see Zemo ever being like Loki. I see him being the ultimate bad guy to the very end.

 

[metaphysician]

While I strongly suspect the Thunderbolts will come into play at some point, I *highly* doubt it will be at Zemo's willing behest. More likely, someone else will think "Put together some kind of suicide squad" would be a great idea, and then decide that using Zemo as a consultant and advisor would also be a great idea. This seems to work fine, until Zemo finally goes "All according to plan", and suddenly he his free, the supervillains who serve him are free, and everyone realizes what a terrible idea it was to let Zemo talk to them and give them advice.

 

[Dr. Evil]

While I strongly suspect the Thunderbolts will come into play at some point, I *highly* doubt it will be at Zemo's willing behest. More likely, someone else will think "Put together some kind of suicide squad" would be a great idea, and then decide that using Zemo as a consultant and advisor would also be a great idea. This seems to work fine, until Zemo finally goes "All according to plan", and suddenly he his free, the supervillains who serve him are free, and everyone realizes what a terrible idea it was to let Zemo talk to them and give them advice.

Like I said, it was a crazy prediction.

 

[metaphysician]

Don't get me wrong, I think a Zemo-led Thunderbolts is fairly likely at some point. Just, its creator is going to be someone like Ross or Hayward, with Zemo as one of its recruits. Only later does the "you misunderstood the screwer-to-screwee relationship here" factor come into play, and why mastermind types must be kept far away from supervillain chain gangs.

 

[Dasher10]

If Abe Jenkins is in Armor Wars, then Zemo better assemble the T-Bolts. Songbird also better appear soon as well.

 

[The Caped Knight]

 

[WatchProtect]

Amazing

 

[Boom]

Kinda not feeling the mask, if I'm being honest. Wish it was less box-y and more form-fitting.

Also think it would look slick if the eyes were covered.

 

[Arrow1987]

Wonder what Zemo's endgame is

 

[Dr. Evil]

Wonder what Zemo's endgame is

My prediction is that he ends up aligning himself with Kang the Conqueror in Avengers 5 if he makes it that long. He despises the Avengers so much that he would never ever align with them even if his team (The Thunderbolts) eventually do.

 

[chamber-music]

I kind of hope they reestablish the outcast German aristocratic roots of Zemo. Perhaps a previous Baron Zemo such as Helmut's grandfather fled to Sokovia after WW2. Sokovia could be his maternal ancestral homeland. Helmut could make his ruined old Bavarian ancestral castle Zemo his new base of operations.

 

[Schlosser85]

I kind of hope they reestablish the outcast German aristocratic roots of Zemo. Perhaps a previous Baron Zemo such as Helmut's grandfather fled to Sokovia after WW2. Sokovia could be his maternal ancestral homeland. Helmut could make his ruined old Bavarian ancestral castle Zemo his new base of operations.

Especially considering the other Sokovians Wanda And Pietro had Russian-ish accents while Zemo suspiciously has a German accent

 

[chamber-music]

Especially considering the other Sokovians Wanda And Pietro had Russian-ish accents while Zemo suspiciously has a German accent

Yep. Olsen and Taylor Johnson tried to do Balkan sounding accents. Brühl speaks German accented English

 

[Iceman]

Don't get me wrong, I think a Zemo-led Thunderbolts is fairly likely at some point. Just, its creator is going to be someone like Ross or Hayward, with Zemo as one of its recruits. Only later does the "you misunderstood the screwer-to-screwee relationship here" factor come into play, and why mastermind types must be kept far away from supervillain chain gangs.

Nice. I want it to happen like that now.

 

[djsunyc]

i would love a little "latveria" name drop.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why didn't Baron Zemo want to wear this costume?

Where are his furry boots? And that isn't a furry collar he has here like on his long coat in the MCU. They're more like furry epaulets. What about that crown thing on his mask?

The furry collar seems to come more from Baron Heinrich Zemo than from Helmut:

 

[Dr. Evil]

I am very curious to see what Zemo's reaction will be when he sees an alien for the first time. His agenda is "Superheroes should not be allowed to exist" but would that apply to superheroes from other worlds too, like Thor and the Guardians or is he not even thinking about that and that only applies to the ones on Earth? Does he align himself with an alien trying to destroy the Avengers due to his hatred of the Avengers if the time comes? Or when the time comes does he swallow his pride and align himself with the very people he hates to save the planet? I do think he'll survive the show and lead the Thunderbolts, but to me, his reaction to when he meets aliens for the first time will be interesting to see and seeing how he reacts to an alien invasion of Earth.

I do think Zemo and Thunderbolt Ross will have different reactions to an alien invasion.

 

[Dark Raven]

I am very curious to see what Zemo's reaction will be when he sees an alien for the first time. His agenda is "Superheroes should not be allowed to exist" but would that apply to superheroes from other worlds too, like Thor and the Guardians or is he not even thinking about that and that only applies to the ones on Earth? Does he align himself with an alien trying to destroy the Avengers due to his hatred of the Avengers if the time comes? Or when the time comes does he swallow his pride and align himself with the very people he hates to save the planet? I do think he'll survive the show and lead the Thunderbolts, but to me, his reaction to when he meets aliens for the first time will be interesting to see and seeing how he reacts to an alien invasion of Earth.

I do think Zemo and Thunderbolt Ross will have different reactions to an alien invasion.

There was an alien invasion already in Avengers in 2012 and in Infinity War and Endgame. He must already be aware of them all these years so he's had plenty of time to think about these matters. And if he survived the Snap, he must have noticed half the population were missing (caused by an alien - ie Thanos).

Also Thor and all the Asgardians are technically aliens since they're not of Earth. I don't see Zemo aligning himself with them. All the Guardians apart from Quill are also aliens.